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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #41  
Old 11-26-2017, 9:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
No, it's the worst system....except for all of the others.

I am betting you are some sort of god who is smarter than the rest of humanity and has a better system in mind?

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You are projecting and telling me all about yourself by accusing me of what you are guilty of doing. You think you are a god. Typical narcissistic personality disorder. It is epidemic in the USA and on Calguns. Magical thinking is a trait of the narcissist: "If it is good it is me (capitalism), and if it is bad it is anything else".

You obviously think you are smarter because you choose capitalism. Did you know that Karl Marx behaved just like a capitalist in his everyday life even though he pushed communism? Democracy is just like capitalism. The person with the most votes gets control even if they are wrong. Capitalism allows a person with the most money to have control even if they are wrong.




My system is called "Sanity". There is no communism or capitalism insanity in "Sanity".

Here is an example of a true capitalist. http://www.edsel.com/pages/edslford.htm
Henry Ford was also a narcissist.

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Edsel was twenty-five years of age when he became President of Ford, but the appointment was no more than a cruel hoax. Foxy old Henry had redesigned the Presidency and was making noises about organizing a rival firm to build a better and cheaper car than the Model "T". Henry had no intention of relinquishing control of the Ford Motor Company, nor did he plan to organize another company. He was simply diluting and very effectively the value of Ford's stock, preparing to buy out the small minority stockholders and assume total control. Edsel was being manipulated, and he would be manipulated, harassed, tormented and humiliated all the remaining days of his life.

Once, when all the Ford brass, including Henry, were attending a luncheon, Henry rose from the table and yelled at Edsel to "shut up", and stormed out of the room. Apparently, Henry had overheard Edsel remarking that there was some merit in placing hydraulic braking systems on all Ford products, which were being done on virtually all of Ford's competitors. It didn't pay to criticize Ford cars - not in Henry's presence at least - and this included Edsel. One side note on the subject; Edsel's brother-in-law and closest confidant, Ernest Kanzler, had learned that in 1926. Kanzler, a second Vice President at Ford, composed a six-page letter in January of that year, pointing out that Chevrolet sales were rapidly gaining, while Ford's were in sharp decline. Kanzler, while delicately refraining from direct criticism of Henry's beloved Model "T", called for a more competitive six-cylinder car. "With every additional car our competitors sell, they get stronger and we get weaker."

It backfired, and Henry was furious. Thereafter, Ernest Kanzler found himself ignored, ridiculed, and victimized in every conceivable way. Ultimately, while Edsel was out of the country, Henry had Kanzler fired.

On one occasion, Edsel had contracted for the construction of a new office building. It seems both Accounting and especially the Sales department had long since outgrown their quarters. Henry was out of town at the time that the plans were made and the contracts let. (One suspects that this may not have been coincidental!) Upon his return, the elder Ford took note of the excavation that was underway and demanded to know what was going on. Edsel, doubtless with a mixture of pride and dread, described the new building which would supply Company with badly needed office space. Henry wanted to know for whom? This should have been Edsel's cue to pitch for the needs of the Sales department - something Henry could understand. Instead, however, the younger Ford mentioned first the accountants. Without waiting to hear another word, Henry turned and marched out of Edsel's office.

The next morning, when the accountants reported for work, they found their offices stripped. No desks, chairs, files or telephones. Even the carpeting was gone, and they were out of a job. Henry had abolished the Accounting department with which he had never had any patience with anyway and overnight had seen to the removal of its furniture and equipment. He then informed Edsel that there was now plenty of room for the Sales staff.


.
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  #42  
Old 11-26-2017, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Carcassonne View Post
You are projecting and telling me all about yourself by accusing me of what you are guilty of doing. You think you are a god. Typical narcissistic personality disorder. It is epidemic in the USA and on Calguns. Magical thinking is a trait of the narcissist: "If it is good it is me (capitalism), and if it is bad it is anything else".

You obviously think you are smarter because you choose capitalism. Did you know that Karl Marx behaved just like a capitalist in his everyday life even though he pushed communism? Democracy is just like capitalism. The person with the most votes gets control even if they are wrong. Capitalism allows a person with the most money to have control even if they are wrong.




My system is called "Sanity". There is no communism or capitalism insanity in "Sanity".

Here is an example of a true capitalist. http://www.edsel.com/pages/edslford.htm
Henry Ford was also a narcissist.




.
I chose capitalism? Where in my statement did I say that?? And when did I say capitalism is "good"? I just stated that it was better than all of the other economic systems....NOT that it was "good". See that? "better" is not necessarily "good".

I accused you of nothing.....just asked you to come up with something better if you are so sure that capitalism is somehow not the lesser of the evils. The only thing you gave me is some system called "sanity" (which you declined to define).

How am I a narcissist? I am an evil, loving, good, ugly human being, capable of the worst atrocities and the best efforts of all of my kin. You?

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  #43  
Old 11-26-2017, 10:13 AM
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Remington, yeah not surprised. I bought a used 1967 Remington 700 stripped it and built a really nice precision rifle for a little more money than a 5R.
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  #44  
Old 11-26-2017, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bridgeport View Post
Please... I would not buy anything from Remington right now considering the poor quality that the Freedom Group has wrought on them.

Yet, my older and C&R Remingtons are some of the finest quality production guns ever made for which it would take a lot for me to part with them.

Not addressing their dwindling quality, but blaming lack of sales on a trend is a bad case of denial. While it's true sales are down because the fear of bans and restrictions does indeed drive sales, that is not wholly the reason for Freedom Group's impending demise.


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  #45  
Old 11-26-2017, 10:31 AM
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I am not here defending Remingtons business decisions but all you experts talking about quality problems in the bolt action section please point out the problems associated with the bolt actions.
I deal mainly with Benchrest gear and Benchrest gunsmiths and all of them tell me today's actions are better than ever before.
Remember this isn't the pistol or shotgun forum.
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  #46  
Old 11-26-2017, 12:48 PM
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Lynn, the general public doesn't go around buying actions and having custom rifles made. That tiny group of people won't keep Remington in business. At the least, Remington needs to get their head out of 1990 and look at what's selling in this century.
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  #47  
Old 11-26-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rm1911 View Post
Like colt, Remington has been living off its name.
you forgot to mention winchester


EDIT FOR .....
as in winchester ammo , reloading components only cares about selling by the use of their name and not their quality

nothing to do with the firearms of winchester
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  #48  
Old 11-26-2017, 1:13 PM
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Not surprised myself. The Freedom Group made many critical mistakes with Remington and Marlin.
Yup
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  #49  
Old 11-26-2017, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by WMG View Post
you forgot to mention winchester
As Kendog astutely pointed out, the firearms being made by Miroku are in many cases equal if not superior to the ones which were made here. I work on guns, and I get that, however, the idea that a "Winchester" is made in Japan just rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps its my age, and that I can remember when the thought of such a thing would have likely been unthinkable, then again a lot of what passes for normal today would have once been unthinkable to me.
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  #50  
Old 11-26-2017, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bridgeport View Post
As Kendog astutely pointed out, the firearms being made by Miroku are in many cases equal if not superior to the ones which were made here. I work on guns, and I get that, however, the idea that a "Winchester" is made in Japan just rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps its my age, and that I can remember when the thought of such a thing would have likely been unthinkable, then again a lot of what passes for normal today would have once been unthinkable to me.
I apologize for not being more clear ....... it is winchester ammo "which I know is a different winchester company" that I was thinking of.
I constantly see folks who bought some and end up with problems and can't figure out why ........this includes the crap ammo , brass , reloading components I have bought with their name.
I do like their 3 inch shotgun shells.
this thread was about guns and when names were dropped , I was not thinking of guns ... only names.
I'll try and be more careful next time ... but no promises
I will edit my previous post
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  #51  
Old 11-26-2017, 2:52 PM
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LOL the truth is hard to accept for some, especially the self proclaimed professionals.
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  #52  
Old 11-26-2017, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Lynn, the general public doesn't go around buying actions and having custom rifles made. That tiny group of people won't keep Remington in business. At the least, Remington needs to get their head out of 1990 and look at what's selling in this century.

Sigstroker
The fact remains if you buy a Remington 700 you can turn it into almost any form of competition gun yet you can't do that with the other manufacturers.
There are actual shooters here that go to matches on a regular basis and those matches are dominated with Remington actions or clones of Remington actions.

Cheap guns will always outsell expensive guns just like Chevrolet will produce more cars than Bugatti.
I am positive the Bugatti quality control department is excellent and most likely exceeds that of Chevrolet's.

The wonderful part is this is the internet so those with zero knowledge can post with those that actually know better.
My unasked for prediction is Remington will not go belly up but will get reorganized and continue on.
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  #53  
Old 11-26-2017, 4:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WMG View Post
I apologize for not being more clear ....... it is winchester ammo "which I know is a different winchester company" that I was thinking of.
I constantly see folks who bought some and end up with problems and can't figure out why ........this includes the crap ammo , brass , reloading components I have bought with their name.
I do like their 3 inch shotgun shells.
this thread was about guns and when names were dropped , I was not thinking of guns ... only names.
I'll try and be more careful next time ... but no promises
I will edit my previous post
I echo that.

Winchester ammo is horrible, aside from their shotgun ammo. I didn't know it was a different owner than the firearms? They need to change that, because I associate winchester with crap due my experience with their ammo.

I've a box of 50 .17HMR of theirs and by the time I had shot 30, 4 had failed to fire. I threw the rest away. That's the first incident that popped into my head. There are many more.
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  #54  
Old 11-26-2017, 6:38 PM
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Oh man. That sucks to hear. I've had a bunch of "new" .303BR Winchester brass that I bought about 15 years ago. Oh well. I probably paid for it then about half $$ of what it would cost now. And you can't really get too many reloads from a Lee-Enfield anyway.
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  #55  
Old 11-26-2017, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyGoatCrawler View Post
I echo that.

Winchester ammo is horrible, aside from their shotgun ammo. I didn't know it was a different owner than the firearms? They need to change that, because I associate winchester with crap due my experience with their ammo.

I've a box of 50 .17HMR of theirs and by the time I had shot 30, 4 had failed to fire. I threw the rest away. That's the first incident that popped into my head. There are many more.
They have been separate companies for as long as I can recall.
I won't pretend to know when it happened but it's been at least a good long time. I've never had a problem with my favorite 3 inch shotgun loads but lets be honest ....... I maybe fire 1-2 of those a year at a turkey....oh and their rifled slugs seem more consistent then rem rifled slugs but they all go bang.
Brass , reloading bullets , rimfire , centerfire , handgun , rifle ..... had trouble with it all years ago and sworn off it ...... nothing seems to have changed considering reports from others.
I'm a federal guy .. I use other stuff to but federal is a name I like
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  #56  
Old 12-03-2017, 12:30 PM
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The Freedom Group [read 'Cerberus'] has managed to nearly destroy a former quality American made product, along with Marlin & H&R, in its drive to maximize profits. The workings of American capitalism in today's global market!

Close a plant or two, shift everything to Ilion, N.Y. and bring in workers who don't get proper training, hire them at a lower wage, and voila, you get products like the Remington 870 Express that are rust buckets. Marlins with the forearm that shifts forward on firing, and H&R single shot shotguns that don't have a forearm hole drilled in the right place. Twice!!

The problem is that some people are such loyal fans based on 40 year-old knowledge that they defend the products without any critical thought. You make a cheapened product and the customer base starts running away, you deserve to go out of business. There are plenty of others in the industry who are driven by the bean-counters as well, but they do a better job of taking care of quality matters and setting things right. Browning/Winchester is just one such example...Nuff said
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  #57  
Old 12-07-2017, 10:28 AM
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I hope Remington pulls it together but it doesn't sound good that they are in bad shape after a long run of very good gun selling market. May not be as much of evil corporation trying to kill their own brand as bad timing. Overhauling mechanical production lines is a major undertaking and bound to have issues.

Marlin's equipment needed a major overhaul and modernization anyway, may not have gone about it perfectly but the Marlin's I've handled recently (not shot) are put together nicely. The old ones aren't works of art or fine clocks either, they're good guns and I love them but the new ones I just looked over in the store seem finished nicer. Only new gun I'm considering is a 1894 in 44mag, will definitely be going over it with a fine tooth comb before doing paperwork as I want a new one, not leftover stock from the transition time.

Have also seen where Remington needed to upgrade their own rifle equipment shortly after the Marlin upgrade. Means the equipment was probably well worn out before the upgrade and definitely kinks to work out once new equipment was put into place.

Add trying to rush into the handgun market, it's all just been too much at once and the brand has serious egg on it's face. Hopefully it wasn't too much and they're churning out some nice rifles again. I've had everything I feel I need for awhile now so their troubles don't affect me personally but I'd like to see the gun industry thrive as a whole.
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  #58  
Old 12-24-2017, 9:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyGoatCrawler View Post
I echo that.

Winchester ammo is horrible, aside from their shotgun ammo. I didn't know it was a different owner than the firearms? They need to change that, because I associate winchester with crap due my experience with their ammo.

I've a box of 50 .17HMR of theirs and by the time I had shot 30, 4 had failed to fire. I threw the rest away. That's the first incident that popped into my head. There are many more.
Probably not worse than any other American company, really. I had Federal 20 gauge once and one FTF. Winchester Power Point in .243 fires 1" higher than Federal blue box, but that doesn't make it worse, just a different powder likely used. Seller & Belliot seems good and that may be Czech made. At least CZ uses it for their test ammo.
So find what your rifle likes best and use it for hunting when it matters.
My biggest complaint about Winchester shotgun ammo is how smoky & dirty it always was & is still, making shotgun barrel cleaning more difficult. Remington was always my first choice for any ammo, but now my go to best stuff is Hornady...

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  #59  
Old 12-28-2017, 8:41 AM
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Dang, I wished I did not wade through this thread. I feel like an idiot that I bought a new Remington 870 Express middle of this year. Maybe I should just sell off the thing at a lost and buy???
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Old 12-28-2017, 10:27 AM
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Dang, I wished I did not wade through this thread. I feel like an idiot that I bought a new Remington 870 Express middle of this year. Maybe I should just sell off the thing at a lost and buy???
Why? Remington isn't going away, some of the employees will. Someone else will own them if they want to sell it off.

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  #61  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:27 AM
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Dang, I wished I did not wade through this thread. I feel like an idiot that I bought a new Remington 870 Express middle of this year. Maybe I should just sell off the thing at a lost and buy???
Find some Corrosion X preservative & keep it lubed externally, regligiously. Only place I know of is GS in San Rafael or online.

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  #62  
Old 12-28-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Simonsez View Post
The Freedom Group [read 'Cerberus'] has managed to nearly destroy a former quality American made product, along with Marlin & H&R, in its drive to maximize profits. The workings of American capitalism in today's global market!...
If Remington fails, capitalism has worked because new and better products from other companies have taken away their market share. There is no better driver to stay competitive than making good products at fair prices.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:06 PM
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It wasn't capitalism that ruined Remington....it was the risk of being a publicly traded company. Anybody can buy you at that point, including some nefarious, soul-sucking private equity group that has no interest in producing anything of value.

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Old 12-28-2017, 12:43 PM
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I don’t know why but the gun companies always seem to have crap credit ratings.

After 16 years of war, you would think the companies would be debt free....
After 8 years of Obama’s - debt free
Because it's an unstable industry. It's either cool or red hot. And when things are red hot they have to staff up and buy more machinery to keep up with demand. Extreme fluctuations makes managing the business more difficult (especially when you have mediocre management talent, or a management team that is only concerned with short-term investor returns instead of long-term profitability). And banks/lenders don't like extreme fluctuations either.
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Old 12-28-2017, 1:14 PM
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If Remington fails, capitalism has worked because new and better products from other companies have taken away their market share. There is no better driver to stay competitive than making good products at fair prices.
Well said, that's why M'berg & SXP will outsell them at price point. In economics they call that globalization. Guess Freedom Group is finding that out the hard way.
Just means layoffs will loom in NY & workers will get shaft again.

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Old 12-28-2017, 1:37 PM
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layoffs will loom in NY & workers will get shaft again.
Also capitalism; the mighty dollar comes first. No system is perfect. Each has their own advantages and faults (depending on who you ask).
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Old 12-28-2017, 2:34 PM
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Also capitalism; the mighty dollar comes first. No system is perfect. Each has their own advantages and faults (depending on who you ask).
Got that right.

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Old 12-28-2017, 6:20 PM
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3 | 50010 | CorrosionX for Guns | $6.95 | $20.85
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Subtotal $20.85
Tax $0.00
Shipping (Priority Mail® Flat Rate) $7.15


Just ordered 3 bottles to give it a try.
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  #69  
Old 12-28-2017, 7:30 PM
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After my ordeal with Remington on a Marlin 1895, I'm honestly more surprised they're still in business. They produce truly awful products with wild QC issues and horrendous customer support. I finally wound up with a decent rifle after almost 6 months and two trips across the country. That isn't sustainable.

On a positive note, Tikka makes a MUCH better bolt gun, everyone else makes a better shotgun, and even Hi-Point makes a more reliable handgun.

Remington, RIP. My first gun was an 1100 LT-20, still have it and it still runs great. I'll miss you, but what you were is long gone already.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:53 PM
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After my ordeal with Remington on a Marlin 1895, I'm honestly more surprised they're still in business. They produce truly awful products with wild QC issues and horrendous customer support. I finally wound up with a decent rifle after almost 6 months and two trips across the country. That isn't sustainable.

On a positive note, Tikka makes a MUCH better bolt gun, everyone else makes a better shotgun, and even Hi-Point makes a more reliable handgun.
What model Remington bolt action and what model Remington pistol did you have problems with?
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Old 12-29-2017, 10:32 AM
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What model Remington bolt action and what model Remington pistol did you have problems with?
I no longer own a Remington rifle as my Tikka's will all shoot much smaller groups. Remington bolt guns might be passable, but the Tikka is superior in any way you choose to measure a factory gun. The edge would go to Remington only if you really want a custom gun built.

As to Remington handguns, you can't be serious, can you?

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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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Old 12-29-2017, 11:20 AM
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I no longer own a Remington rifle as my Tikka's will all shoot much smaller groups. Remington bolt guns might be passable, but the Tikka is superior in any way you choose to measure a factory gun. The edge would go to Remington only if you really want a custom gun built.

As to Remington handguns, you can't be serious, can you?



As far as Tikka rifle goes, I can't see where it's any better or even as good as Remington's 783.
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:12 PM
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You are either a troll or a buffoon.
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Old 12-29-2017, 1:21 PM
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You are either a troll or a buffoon.
Why are you a 1911 hater?

You should try a 783, it might change your mind about the Tikka.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:44 AM
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TMB1
Nobody here has had any problems with a Remington bolt gun. They read on the internet about bad triggers and assume there gun is defective.
The rest are looking for a tactical gun and think Remingtons management should build one.
They don't realize that an AR Platform will work just as well as a bolt action platform if you limit the guns ability to perform with a chassis.
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Old 01-01-2018, 3:46 PM
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With the trigger debacle surprised they are still around...
Bankrupcy is just one step in making that go away. America has gone to AR based guns. Look how few bolt action guns are sold vs SA. Colt has it's .gov contracts to fall back on. The only one making $ is Ruger and even their quality has fallen greatly since the days of Bill Ruger.
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Old 01-03-2018, 8:24 AM
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Good ol Capitalism driving down the quality of stuff just to make stockholders happy
Say, you sound like one of them dern socialist commies. Everyone knows capitalism will regenerate the middle class, or err, whatever you call it....
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Old 01-04-2018, 8:02 AM
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Name calling for the sake of an argument is B.S. This is not the place for a political argument. Besides, he was right. That's how this system we reside in works.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:11 AM
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Side note here. Are 870s really that bad ? The one I bought in 09 has been great and reliable.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:26 AM
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Side note here. Are 870s really that bad ? The one I bought in 09 has been great and reliable.
'89 wingmaster is great.
870 bought in 2000 new was rough but worked
870 bought in '09 was garbage
My 700 was not great when it came to clambering and extraction.

Very small sample set
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