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  #1  
Old 07-27-2020, 9:30 AM
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Default John MacArthur: CA Overstepping Authority, Allowing Protests While Prohibiting Church

On Friday 7/24 John MacArthur and the leadership at Grace CC put out a statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ, not Caesar, Is Head of the Church
A Biblical Case for the Church’s Duty to Remain Open

Christ is Lord of all. He is the one true head of the church (Ephesians 1:22; 5:23; Colossians 1:18). He is also King of kings—sovereign over every earthly authority (1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 17:14; 19:16). Grace Community Church has always stood immovably on those biblical principles. As His people, we are subject to His will and commands as revealed in Scripture. Therefore we cannot and will not acquiesce to a government-imposed moratorium on our weekly congregational worship or other regular corporate gatherings. Compliance would be disobedience to our Lord’s clear commands.

Some will think such a firm statement is inexorably in conflict with the command to be subject to governing authorities laid out in Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2. Scripture does mandate careful, conscientious obedience to all governing authority, including kings, governors, employers, and their agents (in Peter’s words, “not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable” [1 Peter 2:18]). Insofar as government authorities do not attempt to assert ecclesiastical authority or issue orders that forbid our obedience to God’s law, their authority is to be obeyed whether we agree with their rulings or not. In other words, Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2 still bind the consciences of individual Christians. We are to obey our civil authorities as powers that God Himself has ordained.

However, while civil government is invested with divine authority to rule the state, neither of those texts (nor any other) grants civic rulers jurisdiction over the church. God has established three institutions within human society: the family, the state, and the church. Each institution has a sphere of authority with jurisdictional limits that must be respected. A father’s authority is limited to his own family. Church leaders’ authority (which is delegated to them by Christ) is limited to church matters. And government is specifically tasked with the oversight and protection of civic peace and well-being within the boundaries of a nation or community. God has not granted civic rulers authority over the doctrine, practice, or polity of the church. The biblical framework limits the authority of each institution to its specific jurisdiction. The church does not have the right to meddle in the affairs of individual families and ignore parental authority. Parents do not have authority to manage civil matters while circumventing government officials. And similarly, government officials have no right to interfere in ecclesiastical matters in a way that undermines or disregards the God-given authority of pastors and elders.

When any one of the three institutions exceeds the bounds of its jurisdiction it is the duty of the other institutions to curtail that overreach. Therefore, when any government official issues orders regulating worship (such as bans on singing, caps on attendance, or prohibitions against gatherings and services), he steps outside the legitimate bounds of his God-ordained authority as a civic official and arrogates to himself authority that God expressly grants only to the Lord Jesus Christ as sovereign over His Kingdom, which is the church. His rule is mediated to local churches through those pastors and elders who teach His Word (Matthew 16:18–19; 2 Timothy 3:16–4:2).

Therefore, in response to the recent state order requiring churches in California to limit or suspend all meetings indefinitely, we, the pastors and elders of Grace Community Church, respectfully inform our civic leaders that they have exceeded their legitimate jurisdiction, and faithfulness to Christ prohibits us from observing the restrictions they want to impose on our corporate worship services.

[...]

As government policy moves further away from biblical principles, and as legal and political pressures against the church intensify, we must recognize that the Lord may be using these pressures as means of purging to reveal the true church. Succumbing to governmental overreach may cause churches to remain closed indefinitely. How can the true church of Jesus Christ distinguish herself in such a hostile climate? There is only one way: bold allegiance to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Even where governments seem sympathetic to the church, Christian leaders have often needed to push back against aggressive state officials. In Calvin's Geneva, for example, church officials at times needed to fend off attempts by the city council to govern aspects of worship, church polity, and church discipline. The Church of England has never fully reformed, precisely because the British Crown and Parliament have always meddled in church affairs. In 1662, the Puritans were ejected from their pulpits because they refused to bow to government mandates regarding use of the Book of Common Prayer, the wearing of vestments, and other ceremonial aspects of state-regulated worship. The British Monarch still claims to be the supreme governor and titular head of the Anglican Church.

But again: Christ is the one true head of His church, and we intend to honor that vital truth in all our gatherings. For that preeminent reason, we cannot accept and will not bow to the intrusive restrictions government officials now want to impose on our congregation. We offer this response without rancor, and not out of hearts that are combative or rebellious (1 Timothy 2:1–8; 1 Peter 2:13–17), but with a sobering awareness that we must answer to the Lord Jesus for the stewardship He has given to us as shepherds of His precious flock.

To government officials, we respectfully say with the apostles, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge” (Acts 4:19). And our unhesitating reply to that question is the same as the apostles’: “We must obey God rather than men” (Acts 5:29).

Our prayer is that every faithful congregation will stand with us in obedience to our Lord as Christians have done through the centuries.
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Old 07-27-2020, 10:21 AM
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They streamed their Sunday 7/26 service, and starting about an hour in, John MacArthur elaborates on this statement they posted a couple of days before.

He notes some of the supportive responses they have gotten via social media, which include:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaniel Jolly

Nathaniel Jolly
@NathanielJolly
John MacArthur may very well be the boldest preacher in America.

"The Church is essential."

@ERLC Take notes.
12:13 PM · Jul 26, 2020·

Source
Quote:
Originally Posted by James White

James White
@DrOakley1689
If you are not listening to JMac right now, you are missing it. Bold proclamation of God's truth. So timely! So thankful for this boldness. The attacks are going to be loud and relentless, brothers and sisters. Will you stand strong with our brothers at GCC?
11:54 AM · Jul 26, 2020·

Source

James White
@DrOakley1689
Clear, compelling, unashamed. If you prayed for John MacArthur today, as I did, you saw your prayers answered. Now---that was great. But it will bring the wrath of sinners like you won't believe. We must stand together and call this nation to repentance. Boldly.
12:08 PM · Jul 26, 2020·

Source
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allie Beth Stuckey

Allie Beth Stuckey
@conservmillen
John MacArthur steps up to the pulpit. Congregation stands and applauds. I may have teared up.
10:33 AM · Jul 26, 2020·

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Old 07-27-2020, 10:23 AM
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The only thing liberal/Marxists seem to understand is lawsuits since they are filing them all the time. Time to use that tactic against them.

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Old 07-27-2020, 10:42 AM
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Where in God’s name is the ACLU in all of this? They’ve fought for every bull**** cause you can think of but are silent about the most obvious violations like no religious gatherings.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Squatch View Post
The only thing liberal/Marxists seem to understand is lawsuits since they are filing them all the time. Time to use that tactic against them.

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We are out of luck on using lawsuits to correct this. Last week, The Supreme Court struck down a church's request for an injunction against The State of Nevada's Covid 19 restrictions. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...a1070_08l1.pdf

John MacArthur's statement is perfect. Civil disobedience is the only remedy left. With the recent Supreme Court decision, I assume Newsome is going to send an army of law enforcement officers to that church this coming Sunday.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:32 AM
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"Come and Take It"

That seems to be the stance moving ahead.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
We are out of luck on using lawsuits to correct this. Last week, The Supreme Court struck down a church's request for an injunction against The State of Nevada's Covid 19 restrictions. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinion...a1070_08l1.pdf

John MacArthur's statement is perfect. Civil disobedience is the only remedy left. With the recent Supreme Court decision, I assume Newsome is going to send an army of law enforcement officers to that church this coming Sunday.
Leftist overreach has worked out pretty good for non-leftists from time to time.

I would love to know what on earth made Bush #43 think Roberts was a conservative.
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Old 07-27-2020, 3:53 PM
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He’s late to the game. Other have been open against the order for some time.


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Old 07-28-2020, 9:11 AM
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casinos and abortion clinics are open. church is a dangerous place to be in. the people inside are rowdy, violent and drunk!
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:27 AM
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I would love to know what on earth made Bush #43 think Roberts was a conservative.[/QUOTE]

Because Bush#43 is not a conservative.
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Old 07-28-2020, 11:19 AM
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Never heard of him, but Christians are duty-bound to ignore Caesar, when he starts dictating worship.
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Old 07-28-2020, 3:47 PM
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Ditto War Wagon ! It may be sooner than later.

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Old 07-28-2020, 4:04 PM
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It’s time to obey God rather than men.
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Old 07-30-2020, 1:25 PM
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Roberts sided with his liberals again.
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Old 07-30-2020, 1:26 PM
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What a horrible SCOTUS pick by Bush. Will be paying for this for a generation.
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Old 07-30-2020, 9:38 PM
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Eisenhauer appointed Earl Warren thinking that he would be a conservative voice on the SCOTUS. He was chairman of the Republican party after all. Didn't quite turn out that way. Warren presided over cases like Brown v Board of Education and Miranda v Arizona.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:30 PM
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If the silent majority stands together and speaks loudly and clearly, there won't be enough jails or camps to deal with all of us.
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Old 07-31-2020, 12:54 PM
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it is increasingly obvious how the gub is siding with the libs by forcing Christians, Christian business owners and Churches to comply with the state. and with this scamdemic, they have taken the opportunity to exert more demonic laws against Christians while leaving the abortion mills, casinos, rioters/looters/blm/antifa free to continue with their everyday business.
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Old 07-31-2020, 1:27 PM
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# 18, that is how gobnor newscum and others are setting up actions against churches and synagogs , wanting to keep them down. Actions otherwise are soon coming.

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Old 07-31-2020, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barang View Post
it is increasingly obvious how the gub is siding with the libs by forcing Christians, Christian business owners and Churches to comply with the state. and with this scamdemic, they have taken the opportunity to exert more demonic laws against Christians while leaving the abortion mills, casinos, rioters/looters/blm/antifa free to continue with their everyday business.

Jesus DID promise it would get worse, before it got better - John 15.
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Old 07-31-2020, 1:54 PM
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Please, oh please let it be true he visited Epstein's Island. Game over!
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Old 07-31-2020, 2:16 PM
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Should there be a mass infection like has happened in churches in W.Va, and Alabama he could be looking at huge lawsuits. He does have deep pockets, and all you need is one who gets sick or dies, and off to court he goes. His church is in the city of L.A. and if they disobey the law, the DWP can cut off their light and water. Then see how many people want to go in a building that's 110 to 120 degrees.
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Old 07-31-2020, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by louie View Post
Should there be a mass infection like has happened in churches in W.Va, and Alabama he could be looking at huge lawsuits. He does have deep pockets, and all you need is one who gets sick or dies, and off to court he goes. His church is in the city of L.A. and if they disobey the law, the DWP can cut off their light and water. Then see how many people want to go in a building that's 110 to 120 degrees.
The Great Church Covid-19 Plague That Wasnt
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Old 07-31-2020, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kokopelli View Post
Exactly. Not to mention, GCC is in Los Angeles County, not Los Angeles.

John MacArthur posted a brief update today (7/31).
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Old 08-01-2020, 6:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post
Exactly. Not to mention, GCC is in Los Angeles County, not Los Angeles.

John MacArthur posted a brief update today (7/31).
Thanks for posting that but you made me feel very old. John has been pastor there for 51 years? Grace Community was a couple of blocks away from where I grew up in Panorama City. I went there while in High School. The first Sunday that I attended was the Sunday that his dad passed him the torch and John MacArthur preaced his first sermon.

That was 51 years ago.

Technically, all of the San Fernando Valley is part of City of Los Angeles, except for the cities of San Fernando and Burbank. SFV votes for the mayor of Los Angeles and has wanted to cede from Los Angeles. (I was registered to vote when Tom Bradley was running for mayor.) But it is such a large tax generator, Los Angeles has opposed it tooth and nail.
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Old 08-01-2020, 9:16 AM
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John MacArthur has gotten a lot of attention because of what they are doing at GCC. Even from the east coast, folks are taking notice:

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Old 08-01-2020, 9:43 AM
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GCC is in Sun Valley which is in the City of L.A. It is serviced by the L.A.P.D, and the L.A.D.W.P. not the Sheriff's Dept or S.C. Edison. So, yes if the city feels this is a flagrant violation of a restriction they can fine you, or as done with other establishments cut off your water and power. CA now has more positive cases, 504,000 than any other state in the country. You can always live stream, as most responsible churches are doing now. However, I guess you can't pass the basket as well on the computer as you do in the church. A summer camp in GA just had a bunch of kids come down positive, even though they checked them before entering, and kept the windows open, etc. More than half of the kids have tested positive, and though they usually do well, it's the transmission to parents, sibling, grandparents etc. that can be deadly. It's a free country, and do as you wish, but you can see why this country continues to stay in first place in persons infected and dying. There was a map of the world put out today which shows which countries Americans can vacation to without restrictions at all. It is, get this, nine countries! Another twenty or so you can visit with restrictions. The rest of the world won't let us in due to the poor response we have had to this crisis. The baseball players are tested daily, and now it looks like the short season may not even come to pass since this virus is so contagious and more players are testing positive. Until we can get tested like the president, and ball players with near instant results we are going to spread this virus like wildfire. Big assemblies like concerts, rallies, church services, yes, demonstrations on the street will only continue to make the situation worse. The latest forecast is for near 230,000 dead by Nov. This is more than all our dead in war in the last hundred years, minus only WW2. The economy, schools, and all normal ways of life are going to still suffer until we do our best to take this, the worst pandemic since 1918 seriously, and act accordingly.

Last edited by louie; 08-01-2020 at 12:32 PM..
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Old 08-01-2020, 12:49 PM
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Like it or not, OPEN THE CHURCHES and let the Fearful and Afraid stay home ! My not so humble point of view. You go into the public when its flu season, so....and many go to work knowing they have the flu, so.....make YOUR choice.

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Old 08-01-2020, 5:46 PM
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Source
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hale Razor via Twitter
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Public gatherings to burn Bibles: OK

Public gatherings to read Bibles: BANNED

7:28 AM · Aug 1, 2020
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Old 08-03-2020, 5:07 AM
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We had an outside service yesterday. I told the team, "If the devil is going to kick us out of the sanctuary, we're going to kick him out of this city." Outdoor church is going to get REAL LOUD and will be a broadcast to the entire neighborhood.

"So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests." Matthew 22:9-10



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Old 08-03-2020, 9:28 AM
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Sooooo... are most churches telling Newscum to pound sand, or... ???
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Old 08-04-2020, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter View Post
They streamed their Sunday 7/26 service, and starting about an hour in, John MacArthur elaborates on this statement they posted a couple of days before.

He notes some of the supportive responses they have gotten via social media, which include:
I watched the service online. I applaud him and his congregation for their conviction.
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Old 08-05-2020, 1:18 PM
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Dan Bongino reports that MacArthur & GCC are being represented by a couple of lawyers who specialize in constitutional law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas More Society
Source
Pastor John MacArthur and Grace Community Church Represented by All-Star Legal Team

The Thomas More Society announces that nationally renowned attorneys Jenna Ellis and Charles LiMandri will represent Pastor John MacArthur and Grace Community Church in Los Angeles, California, as Special Counsel.

Grace Community Church, its Elder Board, and Pastor MacArthur have been the target of unconstitutional religious discrimination by the City of Los Angeles and the State of California, amid the state’s order to cease in-person church assembly indefinitely. Grace Community Church and Pastor MacArthur, known worldwide for their ministry and seminary, have enjoyed an impeccable 63-year history of serving the Los Angeles community in person and having a reputation for good citizenship and deference to legitimate state authority.

However, the State of California is using COVID-19 as a pretext to attempt to force churches to close indefinitely. This illegitimate, over-broad, and unconstitutional order to indefinitely cease assembling, and exercising their religion and sincerely held religious beliefs, forced Grace Community Church to defy the order and continue exercising their rights, seeking shelter in the guaranteed religious freedom protections of the United States and California constitutions.[...]
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Old 08-05-2020, 3:11 PM
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Now picked up by Breitbart and the Federalist.

I don't want to come at this with the wrong heart posture but I will be glad to see a court put Gavin in his place.
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Old 08-05-2020, 3:30 PM
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Your heart posture is just fine Bro ! In my not so humble view the gubnor is headed for a place not to his liking sooner than later. This man cruises about like he is God's own personal nephew as I see it.

Psalm 1
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  #36  
Old 08-07-2020, 11:07 AM
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Can't go to church without defying authority, but in SF you can go to a gay bath house! Or, if you feel like gambling, hit up a casino!
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Old 08-08-2020, 12:02 AM
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If I'm safe grocery shopping, I'm probably equally as safe in church, not going anywhere near a bath house or casino, that'd just be a dumb move!
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Old 08-10-2020, 6:06 PM
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John MacArthur: "I'm so happy to welcome you to the Grace Community Church peaceful protest."

LOL. Same on YouTube:

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  #39  
Old 08-13-2020, 11:21 PM
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In an interview today (8/13) counsel for John MacArthur and GCC disclosed that the County of Los Angeles is seeking a restraining order to prevent GCC from holding Sunday services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Starnes Podcast
Los Angeles County is seeking a restraining order to stop John MacArthur, the pastor of Grace Community Church, from holding any service on Sunday in the latest act of aggression from the county directed at places of worship during the coronavirus outbreak.

Make no mistake, this is a direct assault on the U.S. Constitution and freedom of religion, said Todd Starnes. He predicted such action in his new book, “Culture Jihad: How to Stop the Left From Killing a Nation.”



Jenna Ellis, an attorney for the church, broke the news during an interview on the “Todd Starnes Show” on Thursday.

“They are targeting churches,” she said. “We got a notice from the county attorney that the county is now seeking an order for a temporary restraining order.”

“They are seeking a total shutdown,” she said. “The county is trying to force the church to comply with their health mandates.”

Ellis, who is also a senior legal adviser of the Trump 2020 presidential campaign, later retweeted a link to a report from the Christian Post that said MacArthur filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the state over its restriction on indoor services after Gov. Gavin Newsom issued new lockdown orders. MacArthur and the church reportedly accuse the state of infringing on their religious freedom.
Praying that GCC prevails in their suit.
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  #40  
Old 08-14-2020, 8:08 AM
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YES Amen !

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