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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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Saiga 12 10rnd drum illegal?
Was told by a police officer that my saiga 12 10round drum was illegal, because it was a revolving type mag on a shotgun.
Something like that. Anyone have anything on this? |
#3
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And a drum magazine is not a revolving cylinder.
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#5
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Apparently you are not listening. Quiet's statement that a drum mag is not a revolving cylinder is accurate. They are legal.
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Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
#7
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my guess is you didn't have this "drum" mag attached to your saiga when the cop spoke to you?
now that you have been told by calguns experts that it's legal, are you planning to prove the cop is wrong? ;-) there were old rumors ATF was going to re-classify saiga12 as destructive devices, same as old streetsweepers, since there are more than 10 rounds drum mags available. on the local front, if yee gets his ways, saiga12 will be defined as aw... http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...drum-magazine/ |
#8
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Drum magazines are NOT revolving cylinders. Cylinders contain firing chambers. So yes, the experts on Calguns are right. Thanks for playing though.
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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." "What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us" "An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911" "While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also, although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark" Last edited by redcliff; 01-26-2013 at 8:26 AM.. |
#9
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Originally Posted by slunk0844 Yes i see now I posted at the same time Quiet posted. "my guess is you didn't have this "drum" mag attached to your saiga when the cop spoke to you? now that you have been told by calguns experts that it's legal, are you planning to prove the cop is wrong? ;-) there were old rumors ATF was going to re-classify saiga12 as destructive devices, same as old streetsweepers, since there are more than 10 rounds drum mags available. on the local front, if yee gets his ways, saiga12 will be defined as aw..." No i did have the drum on my saiga 12 but the police officer was cool and told me to just take it off and put it away in my car. I wasnt going to argue with him and of course I was being completely respectful. |
#10
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So where was this at?
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In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous. Publius Cornelius Scipio Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry. ― Thomas Jefferson Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams |
#11
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i'd love to see the calguns experts practice what the preach... you know, words are cheap....
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#12
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words may be cheap there chief, but yours are still wrong. A drum magazine is not a revolving cylinder. take a look at the old sidewinder drum mags, also legal bud.
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#13
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A vendor (one of the good ones) chimes in, and you're asking why no one is putting their money where their mouth is?
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#14
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EBR Works has been on the cutting edge of the OLL movement since it began. While he wasn't a FFL or even in the firearms industry, he has been practicing CA legal firearms ownership and use for a long time. He's been told that some of his firearms are not legal or welcome at certain ranges. Now, since you've called out any "calguns expert" here, while I do not consider myself an "expert", I'll offer to meet you at a public or private range and practice anything I've ever preached here. Hell, I'll even use a Saiga 12 with a mag lock and 20 round drum (there is no limit on the number of rounds a fixed mag can hold in a shotgun) if you can legally provide me with them. Unfortunately, I don't own a S12 or any mags for it. Otherwise, I wouldn't need you to furnish them to me. So, find something I've preached, post it here. shoot me a PM to make sure I see it and, wait for me to let you know what days I can meet up with you. I shoot a ranges between Coalinga and Angeles on occassion. I'm willing to drive a couple hundred miles to meet up with you if you're willing to do the same. Or, are you just another troll??? Come on, put your money and time where your big mouth is. I dare you!!!!
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#15
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Are you saying I can legally have one of these on my shotty!? https://www.xrailbyrci.com/mm5/merch...Code=xrail_fnh
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Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal -Immortal Technique |
#16
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By your logic if I put a drum magazine into a Luger pistol it becomes a revolver
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"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." "What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us" "An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911" "While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also, although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark" Last edited by redcliff; 01-26-2013 at 7:59 PM.. |
#17
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Newbie says what?
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“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” -George Orwell |
#19
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A drum magazine is not a revolving cylinder.
My opinion is that 10-round drums are good to go, as long as the shotgun is otherwise legal. Getting a promag drum that actually works is another story... |
#20
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The revolving cylinder thing was a referrence to the old Streetsweeper. That is the only shotgun that had one. They needed a way to ban it.
-Mb
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#22
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It is CA legal for a rifle to have a revolving cylinder, because no CA laws restricts/prohibits a rifle with a revolving cylinder. However, if the Rossi Circuit Judge has a smoothbore barrel, then it would not be CA legal because it would then meet CA's definition of a shotgun [PC 17190] and CA's assault weapons laws prohibits shotguns with revolving cylinders [PC 30515(a)(8)]. Penal Code 17090 As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16650, 16660, 16870, and 17170, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, subdivision (f) of Section 27555, Article 2 (commencing with Section 30300) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, "rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. Penal Code 17190 As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16870, and 17180, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, subdivision (f) of Section 27555, Section 30215, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger. Penal Code 30515 (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following: (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. (C) A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches. (4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer. (B) A second handgrip. (C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer's hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel. (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. (5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following: (A) A folding or telescoping stock. (B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip. (7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. (8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder. |
#23
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does it immediately become a crime when you take the hi cap drum, or one of those 15 round straight mags off to then reload it? and does the act of assembling i hi cap kit count as "manufacture"? i would argue its just assembly, no?.. sorry for the newb questions ha
Last edited by ChrisBrooklyn; 01-27-2013 at 12:51 PM.. |
#24
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#25
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NO, i am well aware of what a fixed magazine is, the question was, when you use your tool to UNFIX it, now you are holding in your hand a hi cap shotgun magazine.. now is this illegal to posses? or only illegal to import, manufacture etc?
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#26
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You need to read more and post less, nothing about a fixed magazine exempts it from high cap manufacturing or importation law.
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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle |
#27
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However, if you obtained it by assembling (read manufacturing) a parts kit then you have committed the crime of manufacturing a hi-cap mag. |
#28
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Oh and I use 10-round drums in my S-12 regularly and openly in CA - no worries here, because I know the law.
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------------------------------------------------------------ iTrader protip: When I buy something from you and I immediately pay, then my part is done. That's all I have to do. You can leave me iTrader feedback and go on with your life. When I get the item, I will leave you iTrader feedback, assuming you've already done your part. See how that works? |
#29
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Here's the shotgun AW flowchart:
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf
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WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up. Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL |
#30
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I read just fine. It just seems that all of You are posting conflicting information. My question is simple. Does the law cocer possession? Or import manufacture etc? Like you can posses moonshine fr personal use. But manufacture for sale is against the law. If you don't know. Just say so
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#31
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You are currently confused because you do not seem to have ever read the laws, yet are trying to hold your own in a conversation about the intricacies of the laws. Read the laws, like the rest of us, then come back and ask any questions that you may have.
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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle |
#32
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thanks DJ and Jben.. Harrison, i have read the laws, but as we all know they are convoluted and full of loopholes legal jargon, Im also not a cali native so i ask these questions on here of the people with more real world experience than me, not to mention the LEO's that read and post here often..i made no claims as to what is legal or not, i just asked.. If asking questions is "trying to hold my own" then i guess ya got me there
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#33
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I would get rid of that asap........that is called a Streetsweeper in many places.
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PIMP stands for Positive Intellectual Motivated Person When pimping begins, friendship ends. Don't let your history be a mystery |
#34
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BigP please tell me that was a joke.
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