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  #1  
Old 07-16-2017, 7:20 PM
TheHolyLancer TheHolyLancer is offline
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Default Are riveted pmag 10/30s legal?

So Thinking of ordering from

http://jesticearms.com/10-30-Magpul-...15-Front-Rivet

that is seemingly just a rivet at the front. are these kosher or do you need the magblock + epoxy or magblock + rivet them in place method?
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2017, 7:30 PM
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Rivit should be fine, but make sure you double check. If you can force the 11th in you will be up the creek.
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Old 07-16-2017, 7:47 PM
naeco81 naeco81 is offline
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Nothing I say here is legal advice. I'm not your attorney.
The law does not specify what is or isn't kosher, it simply states the modification must be permanent:

Quote:
http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...ctionNum=16740

PC 16740: As used in this part, “large-capacity magazine” means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(b) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(c) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.
Nobody can give you a concrete answer on what is an acceptable modification. Ultimately you are personally responsible for your choice and caution is warranted. It might be simpler to look for 10 round PMAGs. There is a vendor here selling a mag coupler that connects two of them together bottom-to-bottom. This roughly approximates the dimensions of larger PMAGs but does not increase the capacity of the magazine itself.

If you use the search on this forum you can find many threads where this is discussed further, in case you wanted other people's opinions.
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Old 07-16-2017, 7:51 PM
TheHolyLancer TheHolyLancer is offline
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did this ever get challenged at all? in court or otherwise (like doj letters or what nots)

or is it just up to whoever in charge?

I saw the couplers, and imo they do work, but I don't like I can't set them down, but I could lay them on their sides.

I got some 10/30 hexamags that is supposedly factory made to be completely different, just wanted some pmags with the mag cover.
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Old 07-16-2017, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHolyLancer View Post
did this ever get challenged at all? in court or otherwise (like doj letters or what nots)

or is it just up to whoever in charge?
Sometime years back DOJ had a public comment period where they tried to get a definition of 'permanent'. They decided to do nothing.

So, there we are - we need to use our own best guess at what 'permanent' might be in this context, because there is no 'official' guidance.

OTOH, there are no stories of which I am aware that tell us of any prosecutions on the point.
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2017, 8:20 AM
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You will gets looks and that can lead to questions. All 10/10's here.
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Old 07-17-2017, 8:35 AM
tocino tocino is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
You will gets looks and that can lead to questions. All 10/10's here.
I have several 10/20 & 10/30 AK and AR mags that are riveted only, epoxied only, and riveted & epoxied but when I go out to shoot at a public range, I only bring my 10-round only mags. I firmly believe that all my 10/whatever mags fit the definition of permanent... I just don't want to be the test case by an over-zealous DA if a LEO happens to think my my mags aren't kosher and confiscates them
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Old 07-17-2017, 9:10 AM
Uncivil Engineer Uncivil Engineer is offline
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I have seen several vendors selling riveted 10/30 mags specifically marketed to California. As we haven't seen a case about them shipping them into California this would lead me to believe they are legal.
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Old 07-17-2017, 9:13 PM
Heretodaygonetomorrow Heretodaygonetomorrow is offline
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I would not buy any 10-round magazines that were converted from higher capacity magazines without testing them first to make sure that they do indeed accept the full 10-rounds (with a little extra give, I'd save 1/4 to 1/2 a brass casing diameter).

Without the extra give, it's difficult or impossible to insert a fully loaded magazine into a gun with the bolt closed. The reason is that the top round in the magazine interferes with the bottom of the bolt (which is how the bolt strips the fresh round from the magazine. Without that little bit of give that allows the top round to be depressed below the bottom of the bolt, the magazine cannot be fully inserted.

I've seen a lot of converted 10 round magazines (commercial for sale) that are so tight that even if you can get the 10th round to load into the magazine, the gun's bolt is not strong enough to strip the round off to chamber it. That Internet Supplier with the cheap converted 10-round magazines is a guy sitting around in a backroom somewhere at a bench with dozens of magazines, and a drill punching holes in the magazine bodies and inserting rivets without checking to make sure the hole is in the right spot. The location of that rivet hole is important if you're going to have that little bit of give that is critical to proper functioning of the magazine.

So when you go shopping for 10-round converted magazines, take the gun with you, along with 10 dummy rounds, and ask tell the Seller that you want to buy, buy need to make sure that the magazines you buy will function properly first.

I've converted some magazine for friends and myself, and it's not hard. I made a jig that I stick down into the magazine that locates the rivet hole correctly, and then drill the hole and insert a "pop-rivet". I have to admit that I have a couple of extra holes in a spare magazine body. The magazine body is a brand-new Genuine GI Issue Brownell's Magazine that does not drop free in any AR Lower I tried it in, so it was expendable, when I drilled holes in it, looking for the perfect spot to put the blocking rivet.
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Old 07-18-2017, 8:27 PM
Calgunner2017 Calgunner2017 is offline
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I have been thinking about buying from Atlantic Firearms these cool 10/30 9mm POF magazines for my MP5 clone. They would make my gun look perfect! However, with the now-withdrawn, yet recent, regulations stating mags like these would have to be blocked and riveted has made me hesitant to buy these. I don't know what the law eventually will be regarding these types of mags, and I don't want to spend my hard earned money on something which will be made illegal by some yet-to-be-determined regulation.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0

pofmgs (5 of 6)29.jpg

Last edited by Calgunner2017; 07-18-2017 at 8:29 PM..
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  #11  
Old 07-19-2017, 7:53 AM
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I have some 10/10's I can squeeze 11 rounds in. We are all screwed.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2017, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
I have some 10/10's I can squeeze 11 rounds in. We are all screwed.
Same here. I was super paranoid about this when I first took the plunge into OLL's (can you believe that was more than 10 years ago now ) and actually sent a mag back to C-Products because of it. I went and tried it with all of my 10/10 mags across all weapons and found that roughly 20% of them will take an 11th round and one would even take a 12th but it would be way too tight to feed. Other than BB weapons, I was not worried about it but was a little concerned with the new hi-cap ban. Then I got to thinking, screw it... if they are trying that hard to find something to nail me for, they will find something that I did not even know I was doing wrong.

I have a lot of 10/15-30 mags that have rivets. With a few exceptions, most were bought that way. Like I said above, at least in my case, where I use my weapons and where I live, if they are making an issue out of that, I have bigger problems. If I lived in San Francisco... that might be a different story. I was visiting someone a few days ago that lives in a county that borders Nevada. He said his sheriff has no interest in enforcing any of this new crap and has publicly said that if you are being a responsible gun owner, he and his deputies (probably only a few, I picture a Longmire type department) do not care what type of weapon you have or how many rounds are in it.
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