Fenix T1 vs Pentagon L2

[V8toytruck]

If the TK10 is anything like the T1. It will survive AR recoil. No problems. It will probably survive 50 cal M2 recoil. If anyone has access to one. I'll send mine for them to test it.

It puts out slightly more light on high than my X300 (rated at 110 lumens vs 200+ fenix T1/TK10)


Prior to the release of the T1, Fenix store sent out a bunch of T1s to be abused. It did pretty well. Probably the most abused light that I remember from 7 years on CPF.

Check out this torture test

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=193158

[aplinker]

Originally Posted by FlyingPen

Hey guys, I'm about ready to order another light and I'm slightly worried about the TK10's suitability as a weapons light that will live on a AR. The Pentagon lights seem to have been designed from the outset as having that in mind that a lot of them will live on a weapon...

Do you think the TK10 will have that same ruggedness of constant recoil/vibration and still remain reliable throughout it's life?

I'd put the Fenix up against anything.

[V8toytruck]

http://picasaweb.google.com/witsend/...63445734020962

Heres a test where the guy froze it and baked it!

[maxicon]

The problem with LED lights, and especially multi-function ones, is they're more complex than incandescents, so there's more stuff to go wrong.

The classic 6P or G2 is a pretty simple piece of gear - watertight case, high quality switch (the switch is the weak point on many inexpensive lights), and a head/bezel/lamp assembly, all of which has been tested and refined over the years.

LED lights have circuit boards with solder joints and wires, more connections, more complex switches, and tiny little wires connecting the die to the substrate.

You can make this stuff sturdy - it's done all the time for government work - but it's expensive, and we're at the bottom of the learning curve. Solder joints crack, circuit boards flex, chips suffer from electro-migration, and more.

One of the bigger problems is the technology is moving quickly. The T1 hadn't been around all that long, and now it's being superceded by the TK10, which will be replaced by a new design over the next few years.

I like the new generation gear a lot, but it's got to get a bunch of real-world use over the course of several years to build up a reputation.

[50 Freak]

I would put up my T1 against any Surefire. And I own a 9P. Fenix as a big winner with the T1.

[aplinker]

Compared to the tiny, thin wire of an incandescent, I feel far more comfortable with LEDs.

I do agree there's some amount of prudent consideration one should have with anything new, but all incandescents have burn-out issues. LEDs failing is a much less common occurrence. Again, you get what you pay for to some extent, but I believe Fenix is well aware of the potential issues of not doing things right and have done an excellent job with quality control. Given that, I'd bet, about 80% of their sales are generated by people on, affiliated, or made aware of them by CPF, we'd hear about it if it were otherwise.

Solid state circuitry is incredibly tough. The image conjured by "little wires" isn't particularly accurate, as these "wires" are metal contacts on a solid substrate (like bedded wires). Their failure rate is small.

It also appears the changes from the T1 to the TK10 are much more cosmetic than internal.

Originally Posted by maxicon

The problem with LED lights, and especially multi-function ones, is they're more complex than incandescents, so there's more stuff to go wrong.

The classic 6P or G2 is a pretty simple piece of gear - watertight case, high quality switch (the switch is the weak point on many inexpensive lights), and a head/bezel/lamp assembly, all of which has been tested and refined over the years.

LED lights have circuit boards with solder joints and wires, more connections, more complex switches, and tiny little wires connecting the die to the substrate.

You can make this stuff sturdy - it's done all the time for government work - but it's expensive, and we're at the bottom of the learning curve. Solder joints crack, circuit boards flex, chips suffer from electro-migration, and more.

One of the bigger problems is the technology is moving quickly. The T1 hadn't been around all that long, and now it's being superceded by the TK10, which will be replaced by a new design over the next few years.

I like the new generation gear a lot, but it's got to get a bunch of real-world use over the course of several years to build up a reputation.

[trinydex]

i'll take the complex and stable over the simple and fragile any day.

[50 Freak]

On this subject, do anyone of you guys know if you can add another battery to the TI, or a pressure switch.

I want to turn my T1 into a weapons mounted light

[maxicon]

Originally Posted by uclaplinker

Compared to the tiny, thin wire of an incandescent, I feel far more comfortable with LEDs.

I do agree there's some amount of prudent consideration one should have with anything new, but all incandescents have burn-out issues. LEDs failing is a much less common occurrence. Again, you get what you pay for to some extent, but I believe Fenix is well aware of the potential issues of not doing things right and have done an excellent job with quality control. Given that, I'd bet, about 80% of their sales are generated by people on, affiliated, or made aware of them by CPF, we'd hear about it if it were otherwise.

Solid state circuitry is incredibly tough. The image conjured by "little wires" isn't particularly accurate, as these "wires" are metal contacts on a solid substrate (like bedded wires). Their failure rate is small.

It also appears the changes from the T1 to the TK10 are much more cosmetic than internal.

Agreed - there's no doubt that the LEDs are more immune to shock and routine failure than incandescents, though I work with complex electronics daily, and semiconductors just fail for no apparent reason at all sometimes.

Even the relatively simple TK10 has 2 switches and multiple semiconductors. My little P2D has a conductive sleeve-within-a-sleeve in the body that appears to do the turbo mode switching, and I can't really tell if there are weak spots in the design without disassembling it, which I'm not eager to do on an expensive light.

I've had a lot more incandescent bulbs burn out over the years than LEDs, though when the LED goes, the flashlight may be trash, depending on the design and maker (one reason I like P60 style drop-ins). I've got several lights with dead LEDs or circuitry and intermittent switches, some of which were pretty expensive in their day. Some are covered by the manufacturer under a no-questions lifetime warranty, like Streamlight, and others are now junk (they're technologically obsolete, anyway).

While the failure rate on LEDs is small compared to incan bulbs, most are not easily user serviceable like bulbs, so you're dependent on the support of the vendor. Fenix has a decent warranty, but it doesn't compare to Streamlight's, and Surefire's is in between. Of course, you pay less for the equivalent capability, too, so it can all even out, and that's not a constraint of the technology.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge fan of LEDs, and we're clearly in the middle of a major lighting revolution. It's just that we're at the knee of the change curve, and things are happening very quickly. The technology's not mature, and won't be for some time now.

[FlyingPen]

Fenix if bought through Fenix Store are lifetime warranties.

[JSpicoli]

has anyone tried using rechargeable batteries in these lights? how well do they work?

[aplinker]

Originally Posted by 50 Freak

On this subject, do anyone of you guys know if you can add another battery to the TI, or a pressure switch.

I want to turn my T1 into a weapons mounted light

Can is subjective... easily? Not for the body. It doesn't seem to mesh with anything else. I'm also uncertain if it could handle the extra voltage. Why do you want another battery, though?

Surefire and Pentagon pressure switches do not fit. I've not found anything that does. It would work as a VFG light with an offset mount.

I'd ask this on CPF, though... There might be a solution made already.

[maxicon]

Originally Posted by FlyingPen

Fenix if bought through Fenix Store are lifetime warranties.

You're right, they've updated this, though it's only for the original purchaser with proof of purchase. The main Fenix web page doesn't offer this, so it's a good reason to buy from the Fenix store. They've got a good reputation for customer support, as well.

I buy most of my stuff used, so this wouldn't help me, alas.

Originally Posted by JSpicoli

has anyone tried using rechargeable batteries in these lights? how well do they work?

Assuming you're talking about CR123...

There are a couple of issues with rechargeable CR123 style batteries that you'd need to be aware of. They come in multiple versions that put out from 3V (same as regular CR123) to 3.7V (quite a bit higher). The electronics in some lights will handle a wide range of voltages, and others are less flexible.

If you've got a 2 cell light, that's 6V with standard batteries, but could be as high as 7.4V with lithium rechargeables. That's enough to burn out some flashlights, as people at CPF will tell you.

I don't see voltage specs on either the fenixstore or fenix websites, except that they say "uses 2 3V CR123 batteries". Older Fenix lights could be damaged if you put the batteries in backwards, and newer ones are protected against this, so it could be they're building in over-voltage protection as well.

I bet you'd find some info on this over at CPF.

[trinydex]

fenixstore is out, my two tk10s are on backorder :[

[FlyingPen]

They said next week.

[GSWarriors]

I bought a TK10 from fenixstore and it came in 3 days. The only issue I had was that the allen key wrench used to for the clip did not fit the allen head screws. It was too small. Other than that, I love it. I dropped it a few times already and it still works like a champ. I even ran it under running water while it was on just to show it off to my girlfriend and she was impressed. . This is my first high-end flashlight so I dont really have anything else to compare it to except my huge Maglite but I think it doesnt compare at all.

[aplinker]

Originally Posted by GSWarriors

I bought a TK10 from fenixstore and it came in 3 days. The only issue I had was that the allen key wrench used to for the clip did not fit the allen head screws. It was too small. Other than that, I love it. I dropped it a few times already and it still works like a champ. I even ran it under running water while it was on just to show it off to my girlfriend and she was impressed. . This is my first high-end flashlight so I dont really have anything else to compare it to except my huge Maglite but I think it doesnt compare at all.

You kind of started off poorly. Now nothing else will measure up. It's like having your 1st girlfriend be a hot supermodel who's smart and totally down to earth.

The TK10 has everything going for it. Its only downside is size and weight, which is wasn't designed for. Although, compared to that pig of a mag-lite, you'll be just fine!

[FlyingPen]

Originally Posted by uclaplinker

It's like having your 1st girlfriend be a hot supermodel who's smart and totally down to earth.

Looks like my TK10 budget is going to be diverted. Wish I could have done a comparison.

[GSWarriors]

There are quite a few videos on youtube about flashlight reviews. For those who are still considering a TK1/TK10 and question its durability. Here are some vids:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0WvhJWE3_Oc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jNyXf4154yM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9jplEaVHnwk

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hkXtU0gfZwQ&feature=related

[Socal858]

if anyone is either not ready to take the plunge on rechargeables because of the technicalities or just dont use your flashlight enough to warrant frequent battery changes, i recommend batterystation.com's self branded CR123's. they are american made and NOT recharcheable. batterystation.com and lighthound.com for great prices