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  #1  
Old 11-13-2017, 9:46 PM
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Default Registering Glock 21 Gen 4 (SSE) with Micro Roni kit as AW?

Anyone know if I can register a Glock 21 gen 4 (.45 full size that's the right model right) with a micro-roni kit as an assault weapon?

The Glock 21 started life as an SSE pistol. Because of this it could have been configured at birth with a Micro-roni kit and bullet button? This assume Micro-Roni does not employ a stock making it an SBR, only a "brace"?

Is this kosher to register as an AW?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:09 PM
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So far the micro Roni stab doesn’t seem to be illegal in California so I’m not sure what there is to register.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:37 PM
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How is it Illegal in California if you never change it from a pistol (arm brace only)

Once a pistol always a pistol unless you convert it to a rifle.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:43 PM
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Pistol grip, detachable mag =AW, had to have bullet button. Not my cup of tea.
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Old 11-14-2017, 5:22 AM
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This will be interesting to see the results of this. I mean whats the intent?
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Old 11-14-2017, 6:24 AM
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Old 11-14-2017, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Pistol grip, detachable mag =AW, had to have bullet button. Not my cup of tea.
A stock Glock has a pistol grip and detachable mag and isn't an assault weapon though. What am I missing here?
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2017, 10:23 AM
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Hypothetically speaking doesn't the Glock Gen 4 come from the same place as the AR15 pistols - SSE exemption?

The subsequent conversion of said pistol to a bullet-button pistol would have been legal no? Now of course this configuration has been made illegal by bullet button legislation so theoretically can be registered?

That's my thinking but I'm certainly not an expert..
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2017, 12:35 PM
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No, it's a handgun.

The problem is the possible interpretation of a "barrel shroud".
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Old 11-14-2017, 1:45 PM
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Curious how SSE matters at all related to AW & SBR issues?

Sure, put a 16+" barrel on it (if it will cycle) first - and if you can find one.

I'd ask you to show me a pic of the Roni stock you say you have,
but I don't want to prompt you into possibly incriminating yourself.

... because every Roni stock I've seen IIRC has a buttstock on it.

Pistols can't have buttstocks otherwise they're illegal CA SBRs.

Because of constructive possession risk for SBRs, you really shouldn't
own a Roni kit with a matching Glock - unless you have at least a long
16+" barrel that fits.

[Let's not even get into the 'arm brace' BS because those'll be seen as
stocks too in a CA court, and I'm getting tired of arguing with idiots on
this matter, as ATF letters have little to do with CA courts and separate
CA laws.]
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2017, 1:56 PM
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Common its only Tuesday. Another thread "can I reg my pistol as AW".
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2017, 3:02 PM
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Barrel shroud= No Go

Going from Pistol->Rifle->Pistol is a No Go in California. Okay on Federal level, illegal in CA. So the 16” barrel idea is not going to help.

Your answer is in the handgun flow chart at the top of the page
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  #13  
Old 11-14-2017, 5:37 PM
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A semi-auto pistol that accepts detachable magazines and has a "second handgrip" or a "shroud" is an assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)&(C)]

On the Roni kit, the slanted portion in front of the trigger guard is considered a "second handgrip" [11 CCR 5471(gg)] and the portion of the kit that surrounds the pistol's barrel can be considered a "shroud" [11 CCR 5471(jj)].

In order to be CA legal, the semi-auto pistol installed in the Roni kit must utilize a fixed 10 or less round magazine.
^Magazine needs to be contained in the firearm and can not be removed from without disassembling the firearm's action or the magazine needs to be permanently attached to the firearm's magazine well.

If a semi-auto pistol with a "bullet button" style magazine lock installed in the Roni kit was owned before 2017, then it can be registered as an assault weapon.
^The "bullet button" style magazine lock needs to be kept on the RAW, in order to remain legal.

Because of how CA SBR/SBS laws are written, an arm stablizing brace can be viewed as a stock.
Determination is dependent upon any LEO that sees it and any DA's Office that wants to prosecute it as a SBR/SBS.
RAW are not exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws.




Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 2 Section 5471
(gg) “Second handgrip” means a grip that allows the shooter to grip the pistol with their non-trigger hand. The second hand grip often has a grip texture to assist the shooter in weapon control.
(jj) “Shroud” means a heat shield that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the shooter to fire the weapon with one hand and grasp the firearm over the barrel with the other hand without burning the shooter's hand. A slide that encloses the barrel is not a shroud.
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Last edited by Quiet; 11-14-2017 at 5:46 PM..
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2017, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMAN View Post
How is it Illegal in California if you never change it from a pistol (arm brace only)

Once a pistol always a pistol unless you convert it to a rifle.
Under CA laws...

A handgun can also be classified as a SBR/SBS. [PC 16640(b)]

Installing an arm brace onto a handgun can be determined to be redesiging the firearm to shoot from the shoulder, which would make it a rifle [PC 17090] and if the resulting firearm has a barrel length of less than 16" or an overall length of less than 26", then it is considered a SBR [PC 17170].




Penal Code 16640
(b) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a “handgun” from also being found to be a short-barreled rifle or a short-barreled shotgun.

Penal Code 17090
As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16650, 16660, 16870, and 17170, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, subdivision (f) of Section 27555, Article 2 (commencing with Section 30300) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Penal Code 17170
As used in this part, “short-barreled rifle” means any of the following:
(a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
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  #15  
Old 11-14-2017, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post


A semi-auto pistol that accepts detachable magazines and has a "second handgrip" or a "shroud" is an assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)&(C)]

On the Roni kit, the slanted portion in front of the trigger guard is considered a "second handgrip" [11 CCR 5471(gg)] and the portion of the kit that surrounds the pistol's barrel can be considered a "shroud" [11 CCR 5471(jj)].

In order to be CA legal, the semi-auto pistol installed in the Roni kit must utilize a fixed 10 or less round magazine.
^Magazine needs to be contained in the firearm and can not be removed from without disassembling the firearm's action or the magazine needs to be permanently attached to the firearm's magazine well.

If a semi-auto pistol with a "bullet button" style magazine lock installed in the Roni kit was owned before 2017, then it can be registered as an assault weapon.
^The "bullet button" style magazine lock needs to be kept on the RAW, in order to remain legal.

Because of how CA SBR/SBS laws are written, an arm stablizing brace can be viewed as a stock.
Determination is dependent upon any LEO that sees it and any DA's Office that wants to prosecute it as a SBR/SBS.
RAW are not exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws.




Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 2 Section 5471
(gg) “Second handgrip” means a grip that allows the shooter to grip the pistol with their non-trigger hand. The second hand grip often has a grip texture to assist the shooter in weapon control.
(jj) “Shroud” means a heat shield that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the shooter to fire the weapon with one hand and grasp the firearm over the barrel with the other hand without burning the shooter's hand. A slide that encloses the barrel is not a shroud.
One thing is sure whether legal or not in Ca, that thing is awesome!
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2017, 6:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Curious how SSE matters at all related to AW & SBR issues?

Sure, put a 16+" barrel on it (if it will cycle) first - and if you can find one.

I'd ask you to show me a pic of the Roni stock you say you have,
but I don't want to prompt you into possibly incriminating yourself.

... because every Roni stock I've seen IIRC has a buttstock on it.

Pistols can't have buttstocks otherwise they're illegal CA SBRs.

Because of constructive possession risk for SBRs, you really shouldn't
own a Roni kit with a matching Glock - unless you have at least a long
16+" barrel that fits.

[Let's not even get into the 'arm brace' BS because those'll be seen as
stocks too in a CA court, and I'm getting tired of arguing with idiots on
this matter, as ATF letters have little to do with CA courts and separate
CA laws.]
Hi Bill - thanks for your response!

It was my understanding that AR15 Pistols began life the same way. As an SSE Pistol with barrel shroud, pistol grip, magazine outside of grip, and forward grip - but made legal (pre-2017) because of a bullet button?

What is the difference between an SSE glock 21 versus an AR15 pistol assuming the user added all the evil features while configured with a bullet button? [buttstock aside, lets assume no buttstock]

^Not trying to be argumentative, honestly want to know.

TIA!
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Old 11-29-2017, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bajadan View Post
Common its only Tuesday. Another thread "can I reg my pistol as AW".
Lol, and when you go to the Roni website, they say, " not legal in California"

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  #18  
Old 12-17-2017, 10:37 AM
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^ that's for the Roni Carbine and Micro Roni. It does not say that for the Micro Roni Stab. The Glockstore in San Diego has been selling the stab model for months without issue.
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Old 12-17-2017, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike350GT View Post
^ that's for the Roni Carbine and Micro Roni. It does not say that for the Micro Roni Stab. The Glockstore in San Diego has been selling the stab model for months without issue.
Because it's CA legal to sell that accessory/part.

It's also CA legal to utilize it on an imitation firearm.

It only becomes illegal when you install it on a semi-auto pistol that does not have a fixed magazine.

While in CA, in order to legally install it on a semi-auto pistol, that firearm must utilize a fixed 10 or less round magazine.
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Old 12-17-2017, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Under CA laws...

A handgun can also be classified as a SBR/SBS. [PC 16640(b)]
I don't have the code handy, but if you reg it as an AW before the deadline with a bullet button installed, but without the Roni kit, then I'm of the opinion that you could later do a form 4 to create an AOW (any other weapon) out of it. You could then install the Roni kit legally on your AOW that is a Regged AW. You would need to add a vertical foregrip to make sure it meets AOW configuration, then NEVER remove the vertical foregrip.

Once it's an AOW and is in AOW configuration, it can not be considered a CA SBR/SBS due to an exemption in the law.

It's a bunch of work for a maglocked range toy though.
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-Speaking about the Oikos mass shooting in Oakland.

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Old 12-18-2017, 1:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unusedusername View Post
I don't have the code handy, but if you reg it as an AW before the deadline with a bullet button installed, but without the Roni kit, then I'm of the opinion that you could later do a form 4 to create an AOW (any other weapon) out of it. You could then install the Roni kit legally on your AOW that is a Regged AW. You would need to add a vertical foregrip to make sure it meets AOW configuration, then NEVER remove the vertical foregrip.

Once it's an AOW and is in AOW configuration, it can not be considered a CA SBR/SBS due to an exemption in the law.

It's a bunch of work for a maglocked range toy though.
Nope. DOJ says that if you modify a registered "BB AW" that it is no longer the same firearm that was registered and you are in fact guilty of manufacturing an unregistered AW.

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Old 12-18-2017, 10:31 AM
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Nope. DOJ says that if you modify a registered "BB AW" that it is no longer the same firearm that was registered and you are in fact guilty of manufacturing an unregistered AW.

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They said that about removing the BB. Please show me where they said this about any other part of the firearm.
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"It wasn't a failure of laws," said Amanda Wilcox, who along with her husband, Nick, lobbies for the California chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "I just don't see how our gun laws could have stopped something like that."
-Speaking about the Oikos mass shooting in Oakland.

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With an assault weapon you just hold the trigger back and it goes blup,blup,blup
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Old 04-16-2018, 9:53 AM
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Hey guys,
I saw these at the Glockstore in San Diego and thinking about getting one for my Glock 17. Is the legal info in this thread correct as of April 2018? You can only use it with 10-round fixed magazines? The guy at the Glockstore said it was legal so it's a little confusing.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
No, it's a handgun.

The problem is the possible interpretation of a "barrel shroud".
The Glock barrel is enclosed in the slide . So not sure how one could enclose a barrel that is already enclosed .
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gh429 View Post
Hi Bill - thanks for your response!

It was my understanding that AR15 Pistols began life the same way. As an SSE Pistol with barrel shroud, pistol grip, magazine outside of grip, and forward grip - but made legal (pre-2017) because of a bullet button?

What is the difference between an SSE glock 21 versus an AR15 pistol assuming the user added all the evil features while configured with a bullet button? [buttstock aside, lets assume no buttstock]

^Not trying to be argumentative, honestly want to know.

TIA!
You keep mentioning SSE again and again, it has nothing to do with SSE. Let's keep it simple that way you have no more questions.

In order for you to register as the current Bullet Button Registered Assault Weapon, it HAD to have a fixed mag like the bullet button before 2017 and was legally built or legally purchased with the fixed mag like the bullet button, and if you want to register it by the July deadline you HAVE to submit current pictures that you still have it on there. You can't just have your regular mag release and keep saying SSE this and SSE that. The AR pistols you keep referencing to with SSE also has to have had a bullet button to register.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAD338 View Post
Hey guys,
I saw these at the Glockstore in San Diego and thinking about getting one for my Glock 17. Is the legal info in this thread correct as of April 2018? You can only use it with 10-round fixed magazines? The guy at the Glockstore said it was legal so it's a little confusing.
You should ask the Glockstore what their reasoning is. I'd like to hear it.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:22 AM
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But why would an angled foregrip be considered a foreward grip on a pistol but not a rifle?
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Old 04-16-2018, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestargrizzly View Post
But why would an angled foregrip be considered a foreward grip on a pistol but not a rifle?
Because the restrictions are different.

Semi-auto centerfire rifles = "forward pistol grip".
^"forward pistol grip" being a grip that can be held in a pistol style grasp that is forward of the trigger.

Semi-auto pistols = "second handgrip".
^"second handgrip" being a grip that can be utilized by the non-trigger hand to stablize the handgun.
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Old 04-18-2018, 7:37 PM
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So after reading this, any gun, no matter what, is illegal in this state. Every possible scenario is covered in the above Verbiage. IE: we can't have anything.

Except they can't enforce any of it so why is everybody so concerned with the minutia of this BS. The only way it can affect you is if you are caught robbing a bank! They they will add a few years to your sentence.

I'm going to go hide.

Time to Nationalize All Gun Laws. It is obvious that "States" can't be trusted to uphold the Constitution with respect to the 2nd A, and in this state they don't even try. The response to new laws no matter how ridiculous is "If you don't like it sue us."

Getting sick of trying to figure this unenforceable BS out. Which is exactly the intent of the Laws. Don't go for it!

Randy
__________________
Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
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