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  #81  
Old 07-10-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus von W. View Post
I think this infiltrator shill troll has made it pretty obvious who and what She/He/It/They are, and what Her/His/Its/Their agenda is, with the subtle work-up to spouting the same tired anti-gun "talking points" from the Moms Demand/Everytown handbook. .

We all know why She/He/It/They are here, so the only question is, Why are She/He/It/They still here?
I don't want to live life in a vacuum. I want to see/ hear the other point of view so I can make informed decisions. I want to know their talking points as well so I can properly formulate a good defense in my argument.

You could always just use the ignore function OP if it is really getting under your skin.
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  #82  
Old 07-10-2018, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
I did because it was as absurd as it was melodramatic. Its counterpart would be the equally hyperbolic assertion that assault rifle owners are mass shooters.

Both statements are examples of the fallacy of division; yes, gun control is an indispensable part of facism, but it is just one part. Owning a semi-automatic rifle is an indispensable part of being a mass shooter, but it is just one part.
So you think that calling Communists "mass murderers" is absurd?

I bet all my relatives in Saxony and Moravia who were murdered by the Communists after the war might not share that opinion.

And the "hyperbolic assertion that assault rifles are mass murders" is part of the Marxist Socialist Democrat litany of lies that you seem to think deserves a fair and equal time discussion on this site.

And now you are jabbering about "facism"? (sic). That's a Communist Democrat buzzword, and, like "McCarthyism", as soon as you hear it, you know you are dealing with a Marxist or someone who has eaten the Leftist schitt sammich and found it tasty.

So are you the other member of S/H/I/T's team?
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  #83  
Old 07-10-2018, 1:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sapperforward View Post
I don't want to live life in a vacuum. I want to see/ hear the other point of view so I can make informed decisions. I want to know their talking points as well so I can properly formulate a good defense in my argument.

You could always just use the ignore function OP if it is really getting under your skin.
See, and with that "let them speak" attitude, and talking about "informed decisions", "good defense" and argument, you have already conceded defeat, and let them make you their beech because you don't "argue" with people who want to rob and kill you. Of course, if you think that you can win by bringing an "argument" to a gunfight, you're already dead and just don't know it yet.

If you are so weak-minded or downright naive that you have to "hear their point of view" so you can decide what to think, you are living life in a moral and intellectual vacuum, and it's only going to get worse for you.
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  #84  
Old 07-10-2018, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus von W. View Post
See, and with that "let them speak" attitude, and talking about "informed decisions", "good defense" and argument, you have already conceded defeat, and let them make you their beech because you don't "argue" with people who want to rob and kill you. Of course, if you think that you can win by bringing an "argument" to a gunfight, you're already dead and just don't know it yet.

If you are so weak-minded or downright naive that you have to "hear their point of view" so you can decide what to think, you are living life in a moral and intellectual vacuum, and it's only going to get worse for you.

Really????
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  #85  
Old 07-10-2018, 1:34 PM
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I can't believe all this "Oh, let the nice little troll speak his mind, I want to hear what he has to say" sentiment folks are posting here.

Sure, invite the Trojan Horse in and make nice-nice with it.

What next - we all sit in a circle, hold hands, and sing "Kumbayah" while we suck each other off?
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  #86  
Old 07-10-2018, 1:34 PM
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Really????
Yes, really.
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  #87  
Old 07-10-2018, 1:38 PM
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Who the heck are we talking about?
"Reasonable and Common Sense Gun Safety" spokesperson jsimon7777
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  #88  
Old 07-10-2018, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus von W. View Post
I can't believe all this "Oh, let the nice little troll speak his mind, I want to hear what he has to say" sentiment folks are posting here.

Sure, invite the Trojan Horse in and make nice-nice with it.

What next - we all sit in a circle, hold hands, and sing "Kumbayah" while we suck each other off?
I don't think anyone has to be particularly nice to them, but I'm also not about shutting people up either. I also don't think they are out to kill us either.

I mean if you think they want to kill us, I guess I see your viewpoint.
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  #89  
Old 07-10-2018, 2:46 PM
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Its weak to listen to the arguement but somehow you are tougher or more informed living in a vacuum? Okay
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Originally Posted by Marcus von W. View Post
See, and with that "let them speak" attitude, and talking about "informed decisions", "good defense" and argument, you have already conceded defeat, and let them make you their beech because you don't "argue" with people who want to rob and kill you. Of course, if you think that you can win by bringing an "argument" to a gunfight, you're already dead and just don't know it yet.

If you are so weak-minded or downright naive that you have to "hear their point of view" so you can decide what to think, you are living life in a moral and intellectual vacuum, and it's only going to get worse for you.
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  #90  
Old 07-10-2018, 5:13 PM
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Yes, Ms. Fonda, you're right, Communism is a wonderful thing, and Communists are good people.

And your experience with them is?......
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  #91  
Old 07-10-2018, 6:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Yes. Again, fallacy of division...

Some communists were mass murderers, but not all (or even most). I mean some Christians were mass murderers too (and some Capitalists promoted slavery). That doesn't mean those traits are tenets of those respective philosophies...
Some Nazis were mass murderers, but not all (or even most).
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  #92  
Old 07-10-2018, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lightcav View Post

We may be on the wrong side of history but I plan to extend that history as long as possible.
WTF!!!

We most definitely are not on the wrong side of history. I don't know what you're thinking
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  #93  
Old 07-10-2018, 6:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Yes. Again, fallacy of division...

Some communists were mass murderers, but not all (or even most). I mean some Christians were mass murderers too (and some Capitalists promoted slavery). That doesn't mean those traits are tenets of those respective philosophies...
"Christian" & "Mass Murderer" does not jibe. You can't conceivably be both. It's an impossibility.
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  #94  
Old 07-10-2018, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Yes. Again, fallacy of division...

Some communists were mass murderers, but not all (or even most). I mean some Christians were mass murderers too (and some Capitalists promoted slavery). That doesn't mean those traits are tenets of those respective philosophies...
Your seriously trying to equate all three ?

I'm sure the estimated 90 to 100 Million people who died under Communist
Regimes will take comfort in the fact the Communist Leadership was
responsible for the various Purges, Starvations, and other malfeasance.

Communism Never Ends Well for the average person.

I'm not aware of Christians running around right now killing people,
although there are areas were Christians are actively Being Killed.

And the Capitalists who promoted Slavery are known as Democrats.


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  #95  
Old 07-10-2018, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Sapperforward View Post
I don't want to live life in a vacuum. I want to see/ hear the other point of view so I can make informed decisions. I want to know their talking points as well so I can properly formulate a good defense in my argument.
There was no "talking point" or "other point of view" beyond "here is what I believe and anyone who disagrees has a BS argument and is wrong."

How do you benefit from that?
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  #96  
Old 07-10-2018, 7:53 PM
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Rather than try to change our fundamental, founding laws and rights in this country, Brady Moms need to find a country in which they are comfortable with the founding laws and move there.
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  #97  
Old 07-10-2018, 8:14 PM
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I I also don't think they are out to kill us either.

They'd just as soon march us all to a ditch and then go home and eat a bowl of cereal like like nothing.
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  #98  
Old 07-10-2018, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by IVC View Post
There was no "talking point" or "other point of view" beyond "here is what I believe and anyone who disagrees has a BS argument and is wrong."

How do you benefit from that?
First, that information was not presented in OP's opening salvo. Secondly, I didn't go look up the person the OP vaguely referenced. Therefore I could not possibly know the content of the posts or he/she/its posts. Third, I have no desire to research them. I was responding to the general question of "Why do we allow this person who disagrees with us to post here". And I stand by what I said. Fourth, I was responding directly to the first post and the first post only. That is why I quoted it.

I'll say it again. I don't want to live my life in a bubble surounded by only the things I WANT to hear. I enjoy open discussion and dialogue. I enjoy debate. I enjoy being educated about things I would otherwise not be exposed to. By no means am I endorsing the "the troll". But I don't think he should get the boot either unless he breaks the rules.

Just my opinion on the matter

Carry on Calguns.

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  #99  
Old 07-10-2018, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Equate? No. Show the remarkable similarities? Absolutely.



And the 75 million native Americans killed by (mostly) Christians, along with the 10-20 million killed by the 94% Christian Nazis, along with the 7 million Indians starved by the (mostly) Christian Allies in WW2, along with the 300,000 Muslim civilians killed by (mostly) Christian American Allies in the "War on Terror"
Well, here it is, Christianity is the greatest evil visited upon humanity in the last millennium.

Did I miss anything?
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Only the part where I said such a sentiment is as absurd as "communism = genocide"
Apparently, I didnít miss anything.

Please continue to defend Communism, and the impressive numbers of innocents murdered under the various incarnations of it.

Interesting reading, as we must entertain all points of view, right?
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  #101  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sapperforward View Post
But I don't think he should get the boot either unless he breaks the rules.
He didn't get the boot. He didn't contribute to the debate either.

This thread started only to expose a troll - a person who doesn't have an argument and doesn't care about arguments. A person who only wants to elicit inflammatory responses by rubbing in the fact that our civil rights are infringed in CA. It's as subtle as going to a ghetto and yelling racial slurs. No point except to insult and provoke.

We get a lot of antis on these boards and they get a fair shake. It usually ends when they have to provide arguments or facts. That's when they start invoking "common sense" and "appeal to mainstream" and all sorts of other arbitrary qualifications that are a version of "I'm right and you're wrong." Not particularly persuasive.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Only the part where I said such a sentiment is as absurd as "communism = genocide"

Actually, this is true: the reds didn't practice genocide like the Nazis did.

Instead, they just mass murdered anyone they thought would get in their way. How many millions were killed last century in the name of communism? How many died under the Dictatorship of the Proletariat? Mao? Pol Pot?

But you're right: communism doesn't equal genocide.

Communism equals democide.
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  #103  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by IVC View Post
He didn't get the boot. He didn't contribute to the debate either.

This thread started only to expose a troll - a person who doesn't have an argument and doesn't care about arguments. A person who only wants to elicit inflammatory responses by rubbing in the fact that our civil rights are infringed in CA. It's as subtle as going to a ghetto and yelling racial slurs. No point except to insult and provoke.

We get a lot of antis on these boards and they get a fair shake. It usually ends when they have to provide arguments or facts. That's when they start invoking "common sense" and "appeal to mainstream" and all sorts of other arbitrary qualifications that are a version of "I'm right and you're wrong." Not particularly persuasive.
But isn't that where the whole ignore function comes into play? If you don't like the content of the users post or feel they are a troll you can set them to ignore at any time and live in peace.

Like I said, I have not read the posts you are speaking about and don't want to invest my time investigating it. Did the user break any written rules that would typically warrant a ban from a moderator or do you just not agree with the content? If their was ban worthy content why has the user not been banned? In my experience the mods around here are usually on top of things. Isn't everyone entitled to their own opinion on political/ social matters even if they seem absurd to you and me?

BTW I realize Calguns is not a free speech zone as it is a privately owned forum. If the user in question upsets the apple cart enough I imagine Kes or one of the Mods will do their thing.
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  #104  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Equate? No. Show the remarkable similarities? Absolutely.



And the 75 million native Americans killed by (mostly) Christians, along with the 10-20 million killed by the 94% Christian Nazis, along with the 7 million Indians starved by the (mostly) Christian Allies in WW2, along with the 300,000 Muslim civilians killed by (mostly) Christian American Allies in the "War on Terror"
Well, if all this murderous rampaging is caused by Christianity, why aren't
all the Christians in the United States massacring all the Non Christian
people in the US ? After all, The United States has the largest Christian
population in the world,
with an estimated 240 million Christians.

Would all Non Christians in the USA be safer and better off if they where
to evacuate to places like Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, China to avoid
the Murderous Christians ?

That appears to be the argument your making.

As far as Man's inhumanity to Man, you do realize the Indians had been
savaging each other long before the arrival of Europeans, not saying it
justifies the ugliness that was done to the Indians, just pointing out
Europeans didn't have a monopoly on barbaric behavior.

And lets not forget to be outraged by Homo Sapiens contributing to the
Extinction of the Neanderthal, what should we do about that ?


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  #105  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Equate? No. Show the remarkable similarities? Absolutely.



And the 75 million native Americans killed by (mostly) Christians, along with the 10-20 million killed by the 94% Christian Nazis, along with the 7 million Indians starved by the (mostly) Christian Allies in WW2, along with the 300,000 Muslim civilians killed by (mostly) Christian American Allies in the "War on Terror"
I guess your hatred of atheists is even more so since they make Christians look like angels when it comes to mass genocide.....Mao, Stalin, Pol pot, Kim jong Il to name a few of the greater atheists. If you want to pretend Nazi's were killing in the name of Christianity, we can pretend, but the atheists killing in the name of atheism far outnumber anyone with their callous genocide.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Well, if all this murderous rampaging is caused by Christianity, why aren't
all the Christians in the United States massacring all the Non Christian
people in the US ? After all, The United States has the largest Christian
population in the world,
with an estimated 240 million Christians.

Would all Non Christians in the USA be safer and better off if they where
to evacuate to places like Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, China to avoid
the Murderous Christians ?

That appears to be the argument your making.

As far as Man's inhumanity to Man, you do realize the Indians had been
savaging each other long before the arrival of Europeans, not saying it
justifies the ugliness that was done to the Indians, just pointing out
Europeans didn't have a monopoly on barbaric behavior.

And lets not forget to be outraged by Homo Sapiens contributing to the
Extinction of the Neanderthal, what should we do about that ?


Noble
Truth is not needed here, only revisionism. Seriously a troll that has been here before, Kes will call him out shortly
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  #107  
Old 07-11-2018, 6:47 AM
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We have heard the liberal arguments in favor of "reasonable" gun control ad nauseum. They try to repackage it using different semantics, but it is nothing more than the same crap over and over. "It's for the children", "we don't want to take away your hunting rifles", "people don't need those scary 30 round clipazines and rifles with the thing that goes up", "civilians shouldn't have those child killing fully semi automatic rifles", "self defense is not a right", blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like Marcus, I don't want to hear their crap, period. I have been listening to it for several decades and am tired of it and have no more patience with those that espouse gun control in any form. It seems to me that Jefferson Prepared is just jsimon7777 lite and his (and others) arguments that we should be nice fellows and listen to the 'tards bloviate endlessly is just waste of our time time and bandwidth on calguns.

Guys, if you want to hear that manure, I suggest you go over to one of the many left leaning websites and indulge to your heart's content. jsimon7777 should take his/hers/it's dumocrap book of talking points and go somewhere else and stop trying to push his/her/it's propaganda here.

Yes, I am tired of trying to be reasonable and I am tired of listening to the stupid uh, *stuff* that spews from the left. If that makes me some kind of Neanderthal in the minds of the manginas, so be it.
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  #108  
Old 07-11-2018, 9:38 AM
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Again, this is code for 100% civilian disarmament. This is what they say when they want to sound reasonable and pretend they are not for disarmament. We have learned what 60 years of compromise leads to: CALIFORNIA GUN LAWS!


Not only that, but all recent actions by dems over the past few years (even outside of gun control), have shown they have no intentions of compromising or being reasonable. Itís their way or no way and they are completely open about that. Iím done with it and will no longer ďcompromiseĒ.
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Old 07-11-2018, 9:39 AM
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"It's the derisive and rigid attitudes shown by most in this thread that threaten gun privileges."


The above comment says it all, the 2nd Amendment is not a PRIVILEGE, it revolves around a basic HUMAN RIGHT of self preservation, which existed before groups huddled together in caves or around fire pits and transcends any level of modern governance.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:34 AM
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I'm just going to leave this right here, again. Posted by jsimon7777, sounding like a Huffpost article.
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*03-26-2018, 12:40 AM
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Sensible arms control would mean removing special liability protection for gun makers and gun stores, required safety measures like locking guns up as well as required safety classes, legal removal of guns from people deemed suicidal or violent, thorough background checks, limiting the rounds a gun can hold, the rate it can fire, and the speed of reloading, and waiting periods and reporting of gun and ammo purchases, and banning weapons designed for or based on designs of modern weapons of war. Make special dispensations, like allowing owning guns of different types when left at gun ranges.
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Old 07-11-2018, 2:49 PM
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I dont think it's bad at all having them here. It sharpens our arguments and helps us know the newest disinformation to be rebutted. I love poking holes throughout their lies and giving them a swift kick in the e-nuts.
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Old 07-11-2018, 3:10 PM
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This stuff gives me a headache ...
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Old 07-11-2018, 6:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
Equate? No. Show the remarkable similarities? Absolutely.



And the 75 million native Americans killed by (mostly) Christians, along with the 10-20 million killed by the 94% Christian Nazis, along with the 7 million Indians starved by the (mostly) Christian Allies in WW2, along with the 300,000 Muslim civilians killed by (mostly) Christian American Allies in the "War on Terror"
Low post count fellow troll spending far too much time defending the indefensible posts of another troll...
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Old 07-12-2018, 5:28 AM
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One thing you can count on liberals doing and that is if you have a problem with a groups actions ,say communist or Muslims, they are quick to point out how white Christians people have done worse . They are missing or hiding a couple of facts #1If you don't learn from history it repeats it's and white Conservatives ( Christians and non Christians alike) are trying hard to keep liberals from taking us on a path that will lead us back to past evils .# 2 Idiots in the media and on here label any White person or non Buddhist - Muslim - Hindu ext CHRISTIAN . When a white freak killed Black church goers they were quick to point out it was a white Christian who did it .B.S. Christians follow Christ Christians do not murder innocent people . Yes people claiming to be Christians willingly do bad things but Christians don't . Some idiot on here posted Christians owned slaves ,had he studied history he would know only 3℅ of Americans had slaves and that is a mighty small number to be judging a region by and enough Christians stood against slavery to abolish it ,well at least in non Muslim countries.


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Old 07-12-2018, 5:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ozarkpugs@gmail.com View Post
One thing you can count on liberals doing and that is if you have a problem with a groups actions ,say communist or Muslims, they are quick to point out how white Christians people have done worse . They are missing or hiding a couple of facts #1If you don't learn from history it repeats itself and white Conservatives ( Christians and non Christians alike) are trying hard to keep liberals from taking us on a path that will lead us back to past evils .# 2 Idiots in the media and on here label any White person or non Buddhist - Muslim - Hindu ext CHRISTIAN . When a white freak killed Black church goers they were quick to point out it was a white Christian who did it .B.S. Christians follow Christ Christians do not murder innocent people . Yes people claiming to be Christians willingly do bad things but Christians don't . Some idiot on here posted Christians owned slaves ,had he studied history he would know only 3℅ of Americans had slaves and that is a mighty small number to be judging a region by and enough Christians stood against slavery to abolish it ,well at least in non Muslim countries.


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Old 07-12-2018, 10:07 AM
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I would like to add to this but really you said everything I could say except "Amen "
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Something else to consider regarding the constant and ever escalating liberal leftist Marxist and Neo-Bolshevik hateful attack on America and White Christians: No other people have done as many good things and saved as many lives around the world as White Christians, and no White Christians have done more than Americans have.

No other people have taken in as many other people from around the world as White Christian America.

And regarding the slavery thing: the slave trade in Black Africans was pretty much created by the Arab Muslims. Other than those who were captured and enslaved by the Muslim Arabs, every other Black African who ended up as a slave was captured and sold by another Black African. And if those Africans hadn't been sold as slaves, they would have been killed, and perhaps eaten, by their enemies or their own people, who instead traded them for cloth, beads, cooking pots, tobacco, alcohol, firearms, etc.

No other people except White Christian Americans have engaged in a long and bloody fratricidal war to free Black Slaves, and have put as much money and effort into trying to help and improve the lot of the descendants of those former slaves. People who never owned a slave have spent billions of dollars on 3 generations of people who never were a slave.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:54 AM
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Some of the drivel that people profess.....The belief that human imperfection alone is the sole problem, rather than the combination of this along with the deeply flawed ideologies of socialism and communism, is ludicrous. Capitalism, in spite of being in the hands of flawed humans, has yet to devolve into genocidal dictatorships.
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  #118  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:43 PM
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Exactly which form of government ,Ideology and country do you feel is the most humane / civilized ?
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Did you miss the part where I said Capitalism is more robust that Communism?

As for genocidal Capitalist countries, I'd certainly put the USofA in that category during certain administrations (certainly under Andrew Jackson, but you can also make the case for those presiding during our various forays into Asia, Central America, & the Middle East).

For a more recent example of a Capitalist "genocidal dictatorship" -- look at Chile under Pinochet.
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Old 07-12-2018, 1:52 PM
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We agree for the most art ,I do agree laws and safe guards need to be put in place to protect us from situations like you described maybe instance or bonding but if you are not careful no one will be able to start a business . Say I want to open a mechanic shop and have to put up 500,000 in case I knock over a waste oil tank ext. and it get on a golf course next door I will have to say no way . I do realize we have to have a certain amount of liability to drive and business also have to carry a reasonable amount of liability insurance .
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Originally Posted by Jefferson Prepared View Post
To butcher a quote from Winston Churchill: "Democracy is the worst form of government -- except for all the others..."

I think a Republic is superior to a Democracy for, as the old joke goes, Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.

As for economic forms, I find free market capitalism generally superior, but I think it is sometimes necessary & appropriate to temper the "free market" with restrictions when we can demonstrate that flawed humans will predictably fail to act in accordance with the invisible hand.

For instance, I could open up a toxic waste disposal site just upstream of your property. And while you could successfully sue me in civil court after the fact, with something like toxic waste I can do a lot more damage than I'll ever be able to pay. Thus it is reasonable to temper free market capitalism by requiring those in the toxic waste business to post bonds large enough to clean up a potential superfund site.
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Old 07-12-2018, 3:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus von W. View Post
I think our 2 main other "genocidal forays into Asia" would be when we dropped those Atomic bombs on poor Japan just because they mistook Pearl Harbor for a bombing range, and when we kept those nice North Koreans from re-unifying their country.
I think he was only counting Vietnam. US made alot of mistakes there, both to the native population and to our own soldiers but it was hardly "genocidal".

I will agree with Andrew Jackson being genocidal however.
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