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California Precision Rifle Club California Precision Rifle Club Forum |
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#1
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new to precision shooting...
Hey guys, please dont flame me or anything. But I want to get a bolt action rifle than I can hit steel plates with and maybe hunting at some point when my daughter is a lil older. So far I really like the R700 from remington but what would you recomend other than that? Also, what type of ammunition would be capable of extreme long distance once my lady and I have the required skills and disapline to send a round over 500yards. It would be cool to do this at 1000 yards just for fun. I dont know why but everyone always want to shoot up to 1000 yards and so, so do I lol. I dont want to hear any none useful advice or anything. maybe funny jokes. I was wondering if a .308 or 30-06 would be good for 500yrds+ any maybe close to the 1000 yards? I dont want to waste or invest on a practice rifle and then have to upgrade to another one. I only have the luxury of purchasing one rifle and want tot learn how to shoot it well and far once I take the necassary classes. thanks
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#2
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.30-'06 and .308 have established a lot of respect at 500+ and you can't go wrong there. Winchester Model 70 is a great bolt gun for that range, along with others. Even an '03-A3 will do you well there too. As your shooting improves you can move up, but a lot of rifles can shoot better at 500 than most people can hold. Hook up with some long-range shooters and they will be glad to infect you with their virus...
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"If we make enough laws, we can all be criminals." Walnut media for bright brass http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=621214 |
#3
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A Savage will do you well for both target and hunting. Very customizable and a wonderful price. .308 is a fine round. Plenty of ammo available as well.
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"In the end people ARE AS THEY CHOOSE TO BE. It is no one else's fault but theirs. Just because you don't like the choices available does not abdicate the inherent responsibility for your choices." - meaty-btz |
#4
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I would look for a Remington 700 in .308 win. It is plenty capable to 1000 yards with 175gr ammo and if you ever want to upgrade, there is huge aftermarket and gunsmith support for the 700. Its the small block chevy of bolt guns.
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#5
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lol, im a chevy kinda guy too! My lil brother wants to take gunsmith school and require a r700 to modify and I wouldn't mind him doing it either. As soon as I get the rifle, I will post up here to see who we can go with to show us a few things before i go to precision shooters school. I like the tacticool police r700.
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#6
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I did the same thing. Try and find someone selling a used one, that probably already has some upgrades, get a decent scope... and go to Palmetto State Armory online and buy some Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr for $19/box Start out with Zeroing at 100 yards, get a program like SHOOTER on your smart phone, and work your way out to 500+ Dont forget to save your brass, because u will either love it, and start reloading, or you will get out of the sport and sell one of US your brass!!! lol Good luck
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Glock 19 & 26 HK USP Elite .45 Benelli Nova Rem 700 SPS Varmint .308 FN PS90 FN FiveSeveN For all your heating and cooling needs in So Cal: www.all-pro-air.com |
#8
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Start saving !! LOL it costs a few dollars to start. Its lookin like about $600 or so for me until I get to start. All i have left to buy is some dies. Building the bench so i even have a place to reload got me sidetracked lol
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Glock 19 & 26 HK USP Elite .45 Benelli Nova Rem 700 SPS Varmint .308 FN PS90 FN FiveSeveN For all your heating and cooling needs in So Cal: www.all-pro-air.com |
#9
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Currently I have a R700 action that I used to build my long range precision rifle. I can hit a 10x10 steel plate at 1050 yards with ease. Rifle specs are as follows:
AICS 1.5 R700 action (trued by phoenix custom rifles) Krieger SS 1-10tw 5R barrel med palma contour Timney trigger seekins 8-40 base seekins med 30mm rings nightforce 3.5-15x50 mil-dot scope Atlas bt-10 bipod I shoot hornady superformance 178's all day and have shot groups as small as .410 MOA at 100 yards. The rifle is amazingly accurate and shoots just anything well. I've tried FGMM 168's and 175's and they both shoot sub MOA as well. A R700 action is the way to go and you can get a great rifle at a great price. Last edited by robertsma; 04-13-2012 at 7:07 PM.. Reason: spelling corrections |
#10
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A heavy barrel R700 is perfect for what you have in mind. .308 is also good for what you want to do. Depending on your load and bullet you can get out to 1000 yards but that is pushing it. .308 also has excellent barrel life. After you burn out the barrel or get good you can rebarrel it to some sort of 6mm or 6.5mm that would be better for 1000 yard shooting.
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"Charlie don't surf!" Last edited by shmeddie; 04-13-2012 at 6:36 PM.. |
#11
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I agree with shmeddie. If you are trying purely for distance go with a 6.5 creedmore. It has about the same barrel life but mucu superior ballistics compared to 308 win. The next time I re-barrel I will be getting it chambered in 6.5, it really is a good cartridge. One of my main reasons for 308 was ammo availability and cost. 6.5 runs about the same price and if you do your ammo shopping online you'll find it just as easily as any other cartridge.
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#12
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#13
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choices following education. check out a few websites, such as:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-s...creedmoor/?p=1 http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html http://www.chuckhawks.com/ http://www.brianenos.com/pages/products.html so much info out there. easy to get addicted to this sport. |
#14
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Shooter is a ballistic app. If you know the muzzle velocity of your rounds, the coefficient of drag, temperature, scope height, elevation, angle... the software will calculate your "comeups" or scope elevation adjustments for different distances.
A similar app (free) is Strelok. Once you have a suitable weapon, do not skimp on the scope, base, or rings. It is a weapon "system" only as capable as its weakest link. |
#15
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Have you considered a .243 (or 6.5 as mentioned)? Softer shooting, since you want your girl involved and flatter trajectories. I'm sure you'll be happy either way.
One thing to note, buying a .22lr to train with will save you money in the long run. Same fundamentals and it simulates a .308 in certain instances.
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WTB used AK MFER. |
#16
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We can point you to a newbie class in your area...
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#17
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Thanks for the help in advance
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If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. |
#18
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There is another thread near the top of this subform with the link to it. You will have to sign up on CAPRC in order to RSVP for it the first week of march. Of your 3 guns, the m1a will probably be the best bet as the 300 will kill you firing 80 rounds on a day and the m98 will kill everyone else on the line... Really, you should take the A clinic with a bolt action for the most benefit.
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#19
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I may be interested in that clinic, but I have a different question. I have access to either a Rem. 770 in .30-06 or a belgian-made Browning Safari in .300WM. Which of those would be the better choice for this class? Obviously the Safari is going to be more accurate, but I'm a little worried about the increased recoil in match loads.
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NRA-Certified Pistol Instructor |
#20
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Of those two, the 30-06 would work if it has a heavy barrel. I would not shoot one of our clinics with a hunting weight barrel. The recoil will take all the fun out of the shooting to the point that you will not be able to concentrate and learn.
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#21
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If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. |
#22
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I know that if you were to buy 80rounds of federal gold medal match, that you could probably find someone to loan you a proper 308 target rifle to shoot the clinic with.
Just post a thread in the clinics subforum on caprc asking for loaner guns and see what you get...
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Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#24
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How do you rate .243 s 6.5 vs 7mm RM? Chuck Hawks sure like the 7mm RM of those three if I recall correctly.
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Benefactor Life Member NRA, Life Member CRPA, CGN Contributor, US Army Veteran, Black Ribbon in Memoriam for the deceased 2nd Amendment |
#25
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If I were shooting at stuff that breathes, then I would look at 260 and 7mag depending on my energy needs. There is no need for a 7mag for target shooting.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#26
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Thanks, Randall. I want might skip .308 since I want a rifle I can keep and not have to try and sell a trainer or upgrade barrels and I intend to hunt with them as well (yes. I know the .308 is a great round, but I'd rather have .243's better BCs) though I am sure the rifle will out shoot me for a long time. So it will be .243 first for targets and hunting with good first focal plane mil dot (power range TBD), then .270 or 7mm RM for hunting later when I have better skills. I am thinking I cannot go wrong with a Remington 700 variant, but I'll look at other choices—total budget will decide because I want good mounts, rings, and glass. I'll lurk around and search old posts for platform options. The 700 is so common it's probably the way to go for flexibility and after market upgrades.
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Benefactor Life Member NRA, Life Member CRPA, CGN Contributor, US Army Veteran, Black Ribbon in Memoriam for the deceased 2nd Amendment |
#27
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You will need a custom fast twist barrel so plan on rebarreling right away...
243 Barrels last around 1600 rounds. When I'm shooting a lot, I wear out two 243 barrels a year.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#28
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Randall is right). The factory .243's don't come with a fast enough twist rate to stableize the high b.c. .243 bullets. You'll need a 1-8 to 1-7 to stablize the 105's and 115's.
__________________
"Charlie don't surf!" |
#29
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LOL! I keed! I keed!!!! |
#31
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Postal was in my shop yesterday having me thread his barrel.
He was kidding above...
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#32
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If it's bang for your buck you're looking for, buy a Savage short action rifle in .308 Winchester. An out-of-the-box Savage has some advantages for the budget conscious:
1) Out of box accuracy. This has much to do with Savage's articulating bolt head that allows the bolt face to mate flush with the cartridge when chambered. This will eliminate the need for costly shop work on your action that will need to be done if you buy another brand. 2) Barrel/caliber changes are EASILY DONE AT HOME IN TEN MINUTES! This means that you won't have to pay a gunsmith to install your new 1/8 twist 243 Winchester Lothar Walther barrel. It also means that your rifle can do double service by simply changing calibers. .243 Winchester for target shooting, .308 for hunting on the same action. 3) The Savage adjustable accu-trigger obviates the need for an expensive trigger replacement. 4) Several brands of high-end rifle barrels pre-fit and chambered for Savage. See: http://www.lothar-walther.com/339.php , http://www.shilen.com/savageBarrels.html, http://www.pac-nor.com/prefit/ 5) Plenty of aftermarket stocks available that do not require bedding. As for barrel life, If you use the heaviest bullets that your barrel will stabilize, and the slowest powder that will fill the case to 95-100%, and stay away from the max listed load, and use a throat polishing regimen, you will get over 3000 rounds out of your .243 Winchester barrel. My .243 Win. load is a 105 AMAX bullet on 45gr. of H-1000 in Lapua brass. Very accurate and easy on the barrel. The rifle is a Stevens 200 (Savage brand without the accu-trigger. I replaced the trigger with a rifle basix comp. trigger) with a Lothar Walther SS 28 inch barrel and and a H-S Precision aluminum bedded stock. Total price for the rifle without scope was $780. Probably a little more now.
__________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud |
#33
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It's probably because the tools to remove and install the barrel cost 3 times more than I charge to do the job.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#34
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Savage barrel nut wrench- $22.89 https://www.midwayusa.com/find?userS...rel+nut+wrench Wheeler Engineering barrel vise- $60.99 http://www.midwayusa.com/product/226...-wood-bushings $84 for a lifetime of simple barrel changes. Maybe there is a dearth of DIY capable guys out there, but for the guys who like to do their own work Savage barrel changes are a piece of cake. For anyone interested in the advantages and ease of Savage rifles, check out the forum at http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php or PM me and I'll walk you through the Savage barrel change.
__________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud |
#35
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As few and far between as I'd switch out my savage barrel(308)- it's a lot cheaper for me to have Randall do it. Consider I bought that rifle sometime around 2004 ish... (when accu trigger was new) The barrel was just removed for the first time 4 days ago by Randall to fit a brake. This winter, I'll rebarrel, and have Randall move the brake over to the new barrel... If I buy the wrench/vice/go-no go gauges... At this rate, it'll take at least 10 yrs or longer to pay for itself.... Save myself the hassle and just have Randall do it, and do it right, while I drink his beer. I normally do a lot of work on my own guns- I've done a lot of mods... But the cost of all the tools to do it right, and how often it needs to be done...- Why bother? |
#36
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I just priced a barrel change at a gunsmith that does my buddy's rem 700 rifle and he charges 200 bucks and 3 weeks turnaround.
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Hornady LnL, Dillon Precision, RCBS, Lee Precision and Lyman User If You want Match or Leadless hunting Ammo check out Monolithic Munitions Yes I am a shill, friends with the owners. |
#37
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I charge $40 to break down and reassemble a bolt gun.
You need to add headspace gauges to your list of tools above.
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#38
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i can fit a barrel on a 700 action in about 2-3 hours, while-you wait...
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#39
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I have no issue with people using a gunsmith, but there are many guys who would rather do their own work, and some of those guys aren't aware of the alternatives available to the standard "Buy a Remington and then spend big bucks on action/bolt work, and then more bucks on barrel changes, and more bucks on bedding" etc., etc, not to mention having to decide how to deal with wanting two different calibers. In the scenario that the OP describes, of needing a multi-purpose rifle, with different calibers implied, the Savage, with it's ease of caliber changes and OOB accuracy wins hands down.
__________________
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud |
#40
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....So... Now we're talking $115 + shipping.. $130....
Randall found my headspace was out of tolerance from the factory.... by people that assemble them day in day out for a living... And I should trust a sized case and a click to be dead nuts? I'm afraid I'd have to pass. It make work fine for you. But I'll pass. I am curious what a third party would measure on your rifle though. I work over my own triggers, do my own action and scope base bedding, heck, you should see what I did to that factory tupperware stock.... woodblocks, bondo and 4+ layers of fiberglass... Worked over my 1911 myself too. In this case, I had Randall install the muzzle brake. When I rebarrel, He will move the brake over to my new barrel, as well as headspace it. Costs less than the tools including go/no go and shipping. I wont need to mess with it for nearly a decade. I'd misplace those tools in ten years. |
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