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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 10-17-2013, 10:57 AM
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Default How to recover stolen Sub 2000 from police?

Back in Mid July, my Sub 2000 was stolen, and recovered. For whatever reason, I'm having a hard time getting it back from the police. Issue is the compliance parts were stolen along with the gun. I've since re-ordered a tactical wrap, and stock ext., but looking for feedback on recovering this. Any advice would be appreciated, as enough is enough.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:59 AM
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The Calguns Foundation may help you. Did they specifically say it was the compliance parts that are keeping them from giving it to you? Are they holding it as evidence?
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trl707 View Post
Back in Mid July, my Sub 2000 was stolen, and recovered. For whatever reason, I'm having a hard time getting it back from the police. Issue is the compliance parts were stolen along with the gun. I've since re-ordered a tactical wrap, and stock ext., but looking for feedback on recovering this. Any advice would be appreciated, as enough is enough.



I would send them an official written request, certified, return receipt requested, requesting the item be returned by date X or else the matter will be escalated through litigation. Don't threaten litigation if you're not ready to follow through and take them to court.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:03 AM
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Initially, the detective stated I could recover w/out compliance parts, just proof of ownership. No one in the police department seemed to understand being a 9mm carbine, is not the same is being a 9mm handgun. I provided DROS paperwork, and to no surprise they started insisting on compliance parts. No, I'm just being given the run around. No, not part of evidence. Thanks guys. Keep it coming.
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:04 PM
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What department is it? I know with LAPD and LASD the detective has to release it to you. Go back and talk to the detective
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:18 PM
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No matter what you will have to provide them with a LEGR (Law Enforcement Gun Release) issued by Calif DOJ..., Basically a DROS so the LEA can comply with the law and return it to you.

Without a LEGR by law it cannot be returned....(effective in 2005)

Some info on the LEGR process and links to the form needed.
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/legrinfo

In addition without being able to have the rifle in a legal status (without compliance parts) I can see why they would not release it to you... It would basically put them in a situation where they would be committing a crime of supplying a "prohibited weapon"...

So without the needed compliance parts and a LEGR you will in all likelihood not have it returned...

So talk to the detective handling the case and ask about the situation where you would supply the compliance parts necessary to make the rifle legal so in turn they can release it to you once you get your LEGR back from DOJ...
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Last edited by SVT-40; 10-17-2013 at 12:24 PM..
  #7  
Old 10-17-2013, 12:30 PM
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i'm suprised it was recovered! You're a lucky guy

congrats. I hope they return it to you soon

Last edited by L.A. Saiga; 10-17-2013 at 12:34 PM.. Reason: elaborate a lil bit
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Old 10-17-2013, 12:35 PM
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LEGRs are backed up 30 days. Send in your app now.
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:09 PM
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Not really lucky, placed a GPS tracker under the plastic stock. The wifey thought I was being paranoid. Detective was cool at first, and now the guy really is ducking my calls. That sucks! That I have to send in an app to get my property back, as I'm guessing there is some fee involved.
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by trl707 View Post
Not really lucky, placed a GPS tracker under the plastic stock. The wifey thought I was being paranoid. Detective was cool at first, and now the guy really is ducking my calls. That sucks! That I have to send in an app to get my property back, as I'm guessing there is some fee involved.
This is brilliant! If you don't mind, can you pm me what kind you used? I'm sorry you're having trouble getting it back but you really nailed it on step one (finding it).
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:30 PM
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I'm interested in this GPS also!
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:36 PM
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I'm interested in this GPS also!
+1 over here
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:42 PM
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More info on the GPS?
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trl707 View Post
Not really lucky, placed a GPS tracker under the plastic stock. The wifey thought I was being paranoid. Detective was cool at first, and now the guy really is ducking my calls. That sucks! That I have to send in an app to get my property back, as I'm guessing there is some fee involved.
You need to call Eric Holder and give him some tips on tracking down firearms....
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Old 10-19-2013, 2:49 PM
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More info on the GPS?
So um what's the deal on that GPS tracker, boss?
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Old 10-19-2013, 3:12 PM
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****. Tell us the model. Thata genius!
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Old 10-19-2013, 3:17 PM
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Like they do on TV and the movies; get a white van and put a magnetic sign for Acme Air Conditioning Service, wear a grey one piece jumpsuit, carry a toolbox, enter the police station and disable the video cameras and the alarm system, get into the property room and steal it back.
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Old 10-19-2013, 3:35 PM
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An ffl with AW permit pick it up for you, then convert, then return (transfer or ?)? Maybe more money than necessary, but at least to get it outta the PD hands.
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Old 10-19-2013, 3:48 PM
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Trl707 and JCWATCHDOG that was brilliant guys! Which means this thread is going to be lead item on Eric's desk Monday for the gps and the personal dig.
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Old 10-19-2013, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by trl707 View Post
Not really lucky, placed a GPS tracker under the plastic stock. The wifey thought I was being paranoid. Detective was cool at first, and now the guy really is ducking my calls. That sucks! That I have to send in an app to get my property back, as I'm guessing there is some fee involved.
This sounds impressively far fetched. Proof?
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Old 10-19-2013, 4:41 PM
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[QUOTE=trl707;12560800] Issue is the compliance parts were stolen along with the gun. I've since re-ordered a tactical wrap, and stockQUOTE]


So they removed the stock......Did they find your snazzy gps decice?
And how is it not part of a case if it's recovered stolen?
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Old 10-19-2013, 6:03 PM
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So um what's the deal on that GPS tracker, boss?
I don't know, more of a curiosity.
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Old 10-19-2013, 6:25 PM
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Where you get the GPS?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
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Old 10-19-2013, 9:58 PM
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That GPS must have been solar powered.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:43 PM
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The GPS was brilliant!

I remember seeing a personal GPS @bestbuy a few years back. It was green, about the size of an electronic thermometer and had a rechargeable battery for a little over $100. Designed to put in your kids pocket or lunch box when you send them to school, you have the option to pay a monthly fee for unlimited or per use.

Thought about putting one inside my bike frame but really you could use it for all kinds of stuff. You could put one inside your car and hard wire the charger to your battery and it would be WAY cheaper than a LoJak.

Edit: looks like you could modify several of these
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  #26  
Old 10-20-2013, 9:22 AM
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That's the issue. Apparently, they really don't know **** when it comes to laws. Detective insisted I could get it back w/out compliance parts. He felt that would suck to make me spend more money, and time after having my **** stolen. Of course he was shooting from the hip, and won't even return a call at this point in time. You would think it would be needed for evidence, but again I think the detective was just making up **** as he went.

I'll post up info on GPS device itself, when I get home. Mine was battery powered, and placed under the front forend.
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Last edited by trl707; 10-20-2013 at 9:24 AM..
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Old 10-20-2013, 9:30 AM
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What agency are you dealing with? If large agency, what station? You say it's not being held as evidence, so I take it the case has been completely adjudicated?
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Old 10-20-2013, 9:30 AM
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Tagged for tracking devise info.
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Old 10-20-2013, 9:36 AM
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That suck's, your rifle gets stolen, your rifle gets recovered, the police dick you around from getting your rifle back...there is a lot of (your) here. I would hire an attorney to write a letter requesting/demanding return of YOUR property, just be prepared to go to court to force them to return it.
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Old 10-20-2013, 9:39 AM
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Tag
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Old 10-20-2013, 9:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor Man View Post
That GPS must have been solar powered.
Right? GPS' use an impressive amount of power to do what they do. And unless it had a fantastic amplified antenna (which these mythical gun tracking Eric Holder shaming GPS' of the OP's must have) they usually can't "hear" the constellation while inside a single story house, much less inside a multistoried police station, or in a somewhat shielded evidence room.

People think that GPS is this mythical foolproof technology that is completely infallible and the solution to all problems. Hell, on my boat one of the GPS antennas is on the very tip top of one of the periscopes, and even while running on the surface with signal going through an amplifier sometimes we still can't get a high enough quality fix to put into the Inertial Navigation System, or even tell us much more then "you are somewhere on planet earth."


My BS detector is going haywire.
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Old 10-20-2013, 9:56 AM
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Criminals threw away the compliance parts? But we have these laws.....
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:00 AM
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Is it that "tile" GPS device apple made? If not kinda wondering what kind is that legit.
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Old 10-20-2013, 2:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
Right? GPS' use an impressive amount of power to do what they do. And unless it had a fantastic amplified antenna (which these mythical gun tracking Eric Holder shaming GPS' of the OP's must have) they usually can't "hear" the constellation while inside a single story house, much less inside a multistoried police station, or in a somewhat shielded evidence room.

People think that GPS is this mythical foolproof technology that is completely infallible and the solution to all problems. Hell, on my boat one of the GPS antennas is on the very tip top of one of the periscopes, and even while running on the surface with signal going through an amplifier sometimes we still can't get a high enough quality fix to put into the Inertial Navigation System, or even tell us much more then "you are somewhere on planet earth."


My BS detector is going haywire.
Perhaps the GPS turns on very briefly a few times per day to get a fix and report the coordinates back. A small battery could easily last months, if not years. Most of the time it would be using almost no power.

When reporting back it could even check to see if it should go into "stolen mode" and report back more frequently.

That's how I'd do it if I we're designing it.
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Old 10-20-2013, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sawtooth View Post
Perhaps the GPS turns on very briefly a few times per day to get a fix and report the coordinates back. A small battery could easily last months, if not years. Most of the time it would be using almost no power.

When reporting back it could even check to see if it should go into "stolen mode" and report back more frequently.

That's how I'd do it if I we're designing it.
That's not how the user segment of GPS works. You are constantly hopping from satellite to satellite while using the GPS constellation. Given ideal conditions and a clear LOS to the sky it still takes a few minutes on average to get a fix. Since the constellation is obviously always moving, unless your device knows where to look for the satellites, it has to find them itself which can take up to an hour for TTFF in some instances. This is mitigated with many newer full featured GPS' that can calculate where the satellites will be based on date/time, as well the creation of A-GPS. All of the above requires constant power though. A small battery would be dead within a day.

Bearing all of the above in mind you have to have the entire setup as a small enough package to fit inside of a gun. This doesn't even take into consideration that you need a fantastic antenna to make this work inside of a building.

With the information given thus far, It is my professional opinion as a Navigation Electronics Technician that this story is a complete fabrication.
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Old 10-20-2013, 3:30 PM
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Tagged!

(for a future rant from me on how to use the Thread Tools > Subscribe to This Thread function so you don't have to post unnecessary "Tagged" posts in every thread that interests you.)
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Old 10-20-2013, 4:45 PM
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I called best buy and Kevin(the kid that answered the phone) knew what I was talking about but was blanking on the name. He was able to recall that it was made by Insignia and it had "buddy" in the name. With that I found these, Blue & Green. Sadly they are no longer for sale and the service has been discontinued Its too bad cuz he said that they were about the size of a USB drive which you could probably hide in the stock of a lot of guns.

I see several options on amazon but none of them look small enough to hide in/on a firearm and the manufactures really like to hide the info on battery life.
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Old 10-20-2013, 5:19 PM
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That's not how the user segment of GPS works. You are constantly hopping from satellite to satellite while using the GPS constellation. Given ideal conditions and a clear LOS to the sky it still takes a few minutes on average to get a fix. Since the constellation is obviously always moving, unless your device knows where to look for the satellites, it has to find them itself which can take up to an hour for TTFF in some instances. This is mitigated with many newer full featured GPS' that can calculate where the satellites will be based on date/time, as well the creation of A-GPS. All of the above requires constant power though. A small battery would be dead within a day.

Bearing all of the above in mind you have to have the entire setup as a small enough package to fit inside of a gun. This doesn't even take into consideration that you need a fantastic antenna to make this work inside of a building.

With the information given thus far, It is my professional opinion as a Navigation Electronics Technician that this story is a complete fabrication.
Do you think it's possible that it uses a similar system/network/whatever you want to call it as cell phones? I.e. the average joe may call it GPS, but in actuality it uses a slightly different technology that consumes less power (at least from what I understand, cell phone GPS doesn't use the exact same tech as actual GPS).

That and even when running the GPS in a phone, most of the power is being consumed keeping the screen lit up, and it seems to last for a while. Long enough for someone to find it if it isn't sending a signal out 24/7. And small battery maybe not as in say an AA or something, but maybe some kind of Li battery similar to a phone battery (just reshape it).
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Old 10-20-2013, 6:53 PM
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Do you think it's possible that it uses a similar system/network/whatever you want to call it as cell phones? I.e. the average joe may call it GPS, but in actuality it uses a slightly different technology that consumes less power (at least from what I understand, cell phone GPS doesn't use the exact same tech as actual GPS).

That and even when running the GPS in a phone, most of the power is being consumed keeping the screen lit up, and it seems to last for a while. Long enough for someone to find it if it isn't sending a signal out 24/7. And small battery maybe not as in say an AA or something, but maybe some kind of Li battery similar to a phone battery (just reshape it).
There is no difference in the GPS in your cell phone than a handheld GPS receiver. All recently mfg'd mobile phones support A-GPS, as it is now an FCC requirement. A-GPS helps you get a fix, but it isn't an alternate source of position data. Cell-site multilateration (triangulation if you will) is supported by some devices, but it is not nearly as accurate as GPS. It's purpose is to aid GPS navigation in handsets in places like canyons, buildings, and shallow tunnels. Places where there is no LOS to the sky, and where terrestrial based transmitters have a much higher chance of reaching.

The type of device the OP is claiming to have would be basically a cellular device. Not only can it listen to the GPS Constellation, it can TX/RX with either a cell tower, or a satellite. Either iteration requires lots and lots of electricity to maintain. To my knowledge, there is no such device that has a run time that is greater then a few hours, nor is there such a device small enough to conceal inside of a weapon.


I'm not sure what the point of this thread was, but it's just FUD at this point.
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Old 10-20-2013, 7:12 PM
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That's not how the user segment of GPS works. You are constantly hopping from satellite to satellite while using the GPS constellation. Given ideal conditions and a clear LOS to the sky it still takes a few minutes on average to get a fix. Since the constellation is obviously always moving, unless your device knows where to look for the satellites, it has to find them itself which can take up to an hour for TTFF in some instances. This is mitigated with many newer full featured GPS' that can calculate where the satellites will be based on date/time, as well the creation of A-GPS. All of the above requires constant power though. A small battery would be dead within a day.

Bearing all of the above in mind you have to have the entire setup as a small enough package to fit inside of a gun. This doesn't even take into consideration that you need a fantastic antenna to make this work inside of a building.

With the information given thus far, It is my professional opinion as a Navigation Electronics Technician that this story is a complete fabrication.
I know how GPS works. The only time it would take up to an hour to get a fix is if it hasn't gotten a fix in a long time or it has moved a significant distance from the last fix.

I think still think it's plausible.
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