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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #641  
Old 02-09-2017, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalker View Post
Nice to have you back d-r. I have been wondering, what in your experience/opinion is the most up-to date technology in soft armor that can be worn under regular clothes and what are the effective ratings? Has there been any significant development of "concealable" soft armor with lightweight trauma plates?
It is very hard for someone just doing research online and in retail/vendor shops to get a good idea for what the "state of the art" is.
Thanks for the kind words. Good to be back.

The current state of the art is 5th gen Wovenates, such as Kevlar XP and Twaron SB1. These do not exhibit the same failings as earlier laminates, such as Goldshield/Flex, and do not contain UHMWPE.

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Originally Posted by FireCloud9 View Post
Great thread OP!

I'm not sure my body armor question belongs in this particular thread, but it is the same subject so here goes.

1. What concealable, flexible, light weight, soft body armor would you guys recommend for a business executive seeking protection from handguns?

2. What soft fabric materials and technological advances are you seeing in the body armor space?
1. I am not particularly impressed with most vendors right now. American Body Armor has a "No sales to civilians policy" which nixes them completely. If they reverse their policy, I would heartily recommend them, as they offer both 100% woven aramid vests and 5th gen Wovenate vests.

2. As posted above, the current state of the art in soft body armor is (IMHO) the 5th gen Wovenates such as Kevlar XP and Twaron SB1. Really outstanding materials by these companies. Since M5 is still vaporware at this juncture, these two materials are best practices, along with the tried and true 100% woven Aramid.

I have about three years worth of testing to do in less than a year, so will still be a bit sparse on here. But please post or message me. If I don't see your post, PM or email is best.
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  #642  
Old 02-17-2017, 9:29 AM
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I am really interested in these plates. however it says NIJ 05 and i cant find much on that. Anyone decipher this or have experience with these? The price is per plate which is about the most i want to spend. Any help is much appreciated.

Looking athe medium sapi cut..most likley put in mayflower apc.

http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-3-PLUS-Ceramic.html
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  #643  
Old 02-17-2017, 9:33 AM
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What does the hive know about SteelOps.com plates?

d-r?
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  #644  
Old 02-19-2017, 4:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Grakken View Post
I am really interested in these plates. however it says NIJ 05 and i cant find much on that. Anyone decipher this or have experience with these? The price is per plate which is about the most i want to spend. Any help is much appreciated.

Looking athe medium sapi cut..most likley put in mayflower apc.

http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-3-PLUS-Ceramic.html
There is no NIJ 05, that I'm aware of. It was NIJ04, then NIJ06, at least from what I've read. Those plates are made by Armour Wear. I will tell you while their Level IV plate stopped M2AP, I was less than impressed with the overall construction and durability of their plate.
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  #645  
Old 02-19-2017, 8:33 AM
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This is how badass M80A1 is

No...But...No. I-I ....That's...That's impossible!!!!
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  #646  
Old 02-19-2017, 8:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Buffman View Post
There is no NIJ 05, that I'm aware of. It was NIJ04, then NIJ06, at least from what I've read. Those plates are made by Armour Wear. I will tell you while their Level IV plate stopped M2AP, I was less than impressed with the overall construction and durability of their plate.
Thank you!

dang, i really liked the weight for the price but maybe one of those too good to be true things.

I have been looking at AR650 by Spartan. Seems light for the price.
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  #647  
Old 02-21-2017, 1:51 PM
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D-R great to have you back!
What is your opinion on ballistic Tupperware (helmets)? ACH/MICH vs PASGT. I guess also the newer high cuts. Is there a composition/protection difference or is it mostly design/cut difference? And generally what are your thoughts?
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  #648  
Old 03-07-2017, 1:17 PM
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.50BMG Body Armor Anyone?

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  #649  
Old 03-09-2017, 2:23 PM
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Thanks, DB. Good to be back. I will be posting a blog article on helmets. Short answer, the newer high cuts are GTG (TC-2001, TC-2002), I do prefer aramid vs. UHMWPE for composition (the weight savings is not worth the chance of denaturing due to heat, since these are more exposed than plates that live in a PC).

Buff, there is personal armor that will stop BMG, but you pretty much will have a collapsed rib cage.

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D-R great to have you back!
What is your opinion on ballistic Tupperware (helmets)? ACH/MICH vs PASGT. I guess also the newer high cuts. Is there a composition/protection difference or is it mostly design/cut difference? And generally what are your thoughts?
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  #650  
Old 03-10-2017, 7:18 AM
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Originally Posted by d-r View Post
Thanks, DB. Good to be back. I will be posting a blog article on helmets. Short answer, the newer high cuts are GTG (TC-2001, TC-2002), I do prefer aramid vs. UHMWPE for composition (the weight savings is not worth the chance of denaturing due to heat, since these are more exposed than plates that live in a PC).

Buff, there is personal armor that will stop BMG, but you pretty much will have a collapsed rib cage.
It would depend I guess on range. I mean real world, an ideal shot from 50BMG may be many hundreds of yards out, not 75 yards
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  #651  
Old 04-11-2017, 12:21 PM
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Even at 1000 m, a BMG is packing the same amount of kinetic energy as a .454 Casull at the muzzle.

It's going to hurt. Alot.
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  #652  
Old 04-21-2017, 5:21 AM
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Repost:

I have a US Armor "Terminal Velocity" IIIA
Model: USA3A-12
NSN: 8470-01-527-5097

It was originally in a Mayflower carrier with 10x12 SAPI plates but now resides in a BCS carrier as a backer for my 11x14 Ceradyne plates.

I assumed I was good in the hood since I got this from a buddy who was a USAF CCT but I decided to pull the panels out and it says that it's: 100% Air Entangled Kevlar

Is this bunk armor? It's supposed to be 100% Kevlar 129 according to what I found on procurement info but is this some of the dreaded laminate I have heard about or is this g2g
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  #653  
Old 04-21-2017, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FromanMD View Post
Repost:

I have a US Armor "Terminal Velocity" IIIA
Model: USA3A-12
NSN: 8470-01-527-5097

It was originally in a Mayflower carrier with 10x12 SAPI plates but now resides in a BCS carrier as a backer for my 11x14 Ceradyne plates.

I assumed I was good in the hood since I got this from a buddy who was a USAF CCT but I decided to pull the panels out and it says that it's: 100% Air Entangled Kevlar

Is this bunk armor? It's supposed to be 100% Kevlar 129 according to what I found on procurement info but is this some of the dreaded laminate I have heard about or is this g2g
You are GTG, air-entangled aramid is great stuff, allows for better threat defeat for same areal density of material.
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  #654  
Old 05-03-2017, 5:39 PM
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I was in the market for body armor. Did my research on AR500 and Spartan. I found BAM (body armor megastore). I was interested in purchasing level IIIa soft body armor. There prices are about half of everyone else. I was thinking about double up front and back because there so cheap and each insert only weighs 1 lbs. Anyone has these and could provide some comments?
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  #655  
Old 05-03-2017, 6:16 PM
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Why would you double up on soft body armour? What's the purpose or what do you think that will accomplish?
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  #656  
Old 05-03-2017, 9:27 PM
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It's much lighter than steel plate. Instead of a trauma pad I was thinking about another insert. Maybe stop a rifle round.
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  #657  
Old 05-03-2017, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by plam408 View Post
It's much lighter than steel plate. Instead of a trauma pad I was thinking about another insert. Maybe stop a rifle round.
Nope.
Not even close.
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  #658  
Old 05-04-2017, 6:51 AM
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Originally Posted by plam408 View Post
It's much lighter than steel plate. Instead of a trauma pad I was thinking about another insert. Maybe stop a rifle round.
Not going to stop a rifle round. Are you willing to risk your life on a MAYBE it will stop a rifle round? You want protection from Rifle Rounds Buy Hard plates designed for that purpose. Then you can put the soft armor behind as a trauma pad if you like.
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  #659  
Old 05-04-2017, 9:56 AM
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Originally Posted by plam408 View Post
It's much lighter than steel plate. Instead of a trauma pad I was thinking about another insert. Maybe stop a rifle round.
If this is where your mind is at I'd wait a bit before buying anything and do a lot of research. Doubling up iiia ain't gonna help you in a rifle fight.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ft-body-armor/
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  #660  
Old 05-04-2017, 6:29 PM
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Thanks for the link. I'll do steel plate in front and soft armor in the back to shave some weight.
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  #661  
Old 05-04-2017, 7:02 PM
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People talk a lot about saving weight but staying balanced is important too.
It's a lot easier to move, sprint, get down and hop up if your extra weight is evenly balanced.
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  #662  
Old 05-04-2017, 9:55 PM
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Originally Posted by plam408 View Post
It's much lighter than steel plate. Instead of a trauma pad I was thinking about another insert. Maybe stop a rifle round.
It will take 5+ soft armor IIIa vests to stop a 5.56
Not a good idea.
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  #663  
Old 05-08-2017, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plam408 View Post
I was in the market for body armor. Did my research on AR500 and Spartan. I found BAM (body armor megastore). I was interested in purchasing level IIIa soft body armor. There prices are about half of everyone else. I was thinking about double up front and back because there so cheap and each insert only weighs 1 lbs. Anyone has these and could provide some comments?
I would advise stay far away from this company. Their "spall armor" is the tired and ineffective "half a plate backer stuck to the front" (with duck tape? Really?!).

This design guarantees that a person standing directly in front of the plate will be safe, but the wearer will catch a focused fan of spall. Hint: spall follows the plate surface. The spall cloud is "tamped" by the aramid face. And note the top edge, like the sides, is open. This is the most vital point to catch spall on a plate.

A test video would show this. Demand a shoot test.

I would do one, but it would be better coming from a disinterested third party.

The soft armor is more than likely UHMWPE. This is not "the best" ballistic material. It turns into milk-jug plastic if exposed to temperatures above 165 F (and the inside of cars can easily get that hot or hotter). UHMWPE should only be used in hard armor applications. There are several companies offering "cheap" body armor that utilizes this material. UHMWPE can be cut with a hot knife, speeding production. Whereas woven aramid requires much more labor intensive preparation methods.

And to put the issue to rest, NO, soft armor WILL NOT STOP rifle rounds. You would need about 120 layers of aramid to stop a centerfire rifle round.
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  #664  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:45 PM
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Got this Protech Titan plate carrier for sale in the market place in case anyone is interested. Level IIIA no plates.
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  #665  
Old 05-19-2017, 5:46 AM
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Any opinion on these?

They are ICW but supposed to stop M855 at only 3.6 lbs (call it 4.6 lbs with a IIIA panel).

http://www.tyrtactical.com/products/...l-3-i-c-plate/

I'm looking for these characteristics:
1) light as possible (5 lbs or less)
2) thin as possible (target 0.5")
3) stops common 5.56 (M855 & M193) and 7.62x39, doesn't need to stop .308, but pure UhMWPE that won't stop M855 is out

I'm leaning toward Midwest FM STX but seeing if anything can beat it, i.e. Offer same protection for less than 5 lbs for an ESAPI medium
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  #666  
Old 05-20-2017, 9:29 PM
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Originally Posted by thorium View Post
Any opinion on these?

They are ICW but supposed to stop M855 at only 3.6 lbs (call it 4.6 lbs with a IIIA panel).

http://www.tyrtactical.com/products/...l-3-i-c-plate/

I'm looking for these characteristics:
1) light as possible (5 lbs or less)
2) thin as possible (target 0.5")
3) stops common 5.56 (M855 & M193) and 7.62x39, doesn't need to stop .308, but pure UhMWPE that won't stop M855 is out

I'm leaning toward Midwest FM STX but seeing if anything can beat it, i.e. Offer same protection for less than 5 lbs for an ESAPI medium
No opinion on the Tyr plate. They make good gear.

I still recommend the Midwest FM3+ or the FM4+ if you need something even lighter. ICW plates are not my favorite. And the STX is a great plate, but does not stop M80 ball.
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  #667  
Old 05-29-2017, 12:23 PM
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CATI's AR600 III+ destroyed. I think the close proximity .308 may be too much for such a hard steel. I've cracked plates before with 308 AP, and 300WM and 338. They did however stop M193 at over 3200fps..
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  #668  
Old 06-02-2017, 6:45 AM
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Need to get a bolt gun to get some more velocity out of my M2AP, or maybe download some 300 WM to different velocity steps for testing. I'd say their plate did rather well. A little on the heavy side for an ICW, but it held up well for a tile arrangement plate
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  #669  
Old 06-02-2017, 12:54 PM
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Cool, thanks for the video!
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  #670  
Old 06-02-2017, 1:53 PM
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Anybody know if these Protech Level IV stand alone ceramic plates are any good? They go on sale couple times a year.

https://dsgarms.com/safpta-2115g-10x12-sc-sh
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  #671  
Old 06-04-2017, 6:47 AM
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^ isn't listed in the certified section on NIJ's website, but doesn't mean it's not any good. Not a bad price, but there's an NIJ 06 (pending certification) Level IV that goes on sale a lot for $100/plate..
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  #672  
Old 06-30-2017, 1:30 PM
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Stepped up the Engarde to the 300 Win mag
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  #673  
Old 07-07-2017, 6:26 AM
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And here's M993 making quick work of two Level IV plates


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  #674  
Old 07-10-2017, 2:57 PM
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I searched the thread a bit but didn't see it anywhere but I was wondering how International Armor Corporation Titanium/Steel stand alone level 3 plates are?

I bought a Grey Ghost Gear Minimalist Plate Carrier that came with the International Armor Corp HAP for around $300 and was wondering what the quality actually is.
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  #675  
Old 07-10-2017, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by the Scholar View Post
I searched the thread a bit but didn't see it anywhere but I was wondering how International Armor Corporation Titanium/Steel stand alone level 3 plates are?

I bought a Grey Ghost Gear Minimalist Plate Carrier that came with the International Armor Corp HAP for around $300 and was wondering what the quality actually is.
Unfortunately, it isn't actually composed of titanium. It is simply steel iirc and the titanium is the marketing name they gave it.
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  #676  
Old 07-11-2017, 9:04 AM
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Unfortunately, it isn't actually composed of titanium. It is simply steel iirc and the titanium is the marketing name they gave it.
Haha, that is actually kind of funny to hear. Honestly, I don't really mind if it has titanium or not in the plates, I was just curious if they are good. Being titanium/steel or just steel doesn't change the fact that each plate weighs about 9 lbs, and I'm ok wearing it around for a few hours at a time. I wore the carrier during a training class for about 4 hours last weekend and it wasn't too bad.

Anyone else running a minimalist carrier?
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  #677  
Old 07-22-2017, 7:11 AM
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I have always worn Galls and Point Blank Level IIIA soft armor for work. I liked it a lot. It was thin, very concealable and it protects your whole body. But they are expensive ($450-$650) expire within 3-5 years. Sweat, heat and other factors wear out the vest as well. Also soft armor is not stab proof. Soft armor can only take a few shots before they explode. You risk of broken ribs. Outer shell carriers always rip within 6 months to a year and are expensive.

I recently switched over to wearing AR500 Level IIIA 10x12 "Lightweight" plates and they are only .2-.23" thick. I use Beez Combat Systems concealed plate carrier. With these plates and carrier, you still maintain good concealability. These plates are a lot heavier and do not protect your sides. But they are cheaper ($75 each, $150 for two, $75 for carrier = $225 before tax compared to $450-$650 for soft armor). They are also stab proof and last a lifetime since they are steel plates. They can take a lot of shots before the spalling peels off but are still good to go.

Switching over to AR500 was the best decision I have ever made.
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  #678  
Old 07-27-2017, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Scholar View Post
Haha, that is actually kind of funny to hear. Honestly, I don't really mind if it has titanium or not in the plates, I was just curious if they are good. Being titanium/steel or just steel doesn't change the fact that each plate weighs about 9 lbs, and I'm ok wearing it around for a few hours at a time. I wore the carrier during a training class for about 4 hours last weekend and it wasn't too bad.

Anyone else running a minimalist carrier?
Not to mention that Ti is not a good choice for rifle armor. To be effective, it has to be much too thick to be wearable.
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  #679  
Old 07-27-2017, 3:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffman View Post
And here's M993 making quick work of two Level IV plates


Whose left nut did you have to sell to get M993?
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  #680  
Old 07-27-2017, 8:15 PM
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Whose left nut did you have to sell to get M993?

Back in the day i could buy 5 gal buckets full of 993 projectiles at the gs for 50 bucks.
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