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Firearms Accessories: Holsters, Safes, Lights & more If it locks up, carries, fits on to or cleans up your firearms, discuss it here.

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  #41  
Old 04-01-2017, 9:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TurboChrisB View Post
The "Trick" is too dial in the first two numbers......it's a LOT faster when you only have to rotate it around to the last number....it quickly becomes the "norm" and easily is as fast as a digital lock...in my opinion.
I am sure this would save some time. But I have seen dial safes where once the first two digits are entered, slowly dialing it back will offer some tactile binding as the third digit is approached. Probably unlikely that a bad guy would get it open, but I wouldn't want to slash 66% of my safe's defensive capability to make it faster for me to open.

It might actually slow down opening the safe by the owner too if the dial has moved or someone brushed against it, etc. When it doesn't open as expected there would be some momentary "WTH" as you have to spin it and start over.

Just theory, that's all. I have both types of safes and both have their merits.
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  #42  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Ricigliano View Post
Agreed. There is nothing wrong with a nice high end safe whatsoever. I could just do without some of the elitism that seems to accompany them. A good bolted down RSC will do the trick for a lot of people. But if one has the means, by all means go all out.
Agreed. A Cannon safe will keep out 99% of thieves. Add in a $300 SimpliSafe system and a dog and you're GTG. There was a thread on here a while back about keeping the safe in the garage. Someone actually posted then that what if someone wrapped a chain around it and hooked up a truck and yanked it out????? Are you F'ing kidding me?

And I distinctly remember a firefighter on here that stated that fire ratings were, for the most part irrelevant as every safe that he'd ever seen in a REAL fire....meaning the room the safe was in was in flames....that the contents were destroyed.
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  #43  
Old 04-01-2017, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TurboChrisB View Post
Agreed. A Cannon safe will keep out 99% of thieves. Add in a $300 SimpliSafe system and a dog and you're GTG. There was a thread on here a while back about keeping the safe in the garage. Someone actually posted then that what if someone wrapped a chain around it and hooked up a truck and yanked it out????? Are you F'ing kidding me?

And I distinctly remember a firefighter on here that stated that fire ratings were, for the most part irrelevant as every safe that he'd ever seen in a REAL fire....meaning the room the safe was in was in flames....that the contents were destroyed.
This happened in Fremont years ago. FPD followed the drag marks right into the crooks garage.
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  #44  
Old 04-01-2017, 10:28 PM
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This happened in Fremont years ago. FPD followed the drag marks right into the crooks garage.
I'm sure it did, but to think it's a consideration when deciding where to put your safe is ridiculous. Hell, I'm sure somewhere a safe was lifted out using a stolen helicopter....doesn't mean that I'm gonna use that as an example when someone talks about where they're gonna put their safe.
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  #45  
Old 04-02-2017, 6:39 AM
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Is a dial combo really that difficult? I can open my safe in about 10 seconds, I figure digital is about 2-3 seconds? So you're saving 7-8 seconds? How lazy have we become?

I guess I'm just old school, but in some cases I think technology/convenience has gone way too far.
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  #46  
Old 04-02-2017, 7:50 AM
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Update.
Received two cut past emails then crickets for a week from Cannon.

Second update.
After the safe did open eventually, and now seems to work fine.
But in the back of my mind I will not be able to trust the pin pad.
It is a gut wrenching feeling having all your arms locked in a box, knowing you are entering the correct combo.
This is my experience, yours may vary.
Thanks
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  #47  
Old 04-02-2017, 10:21 AM
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I have had my Cannon safe for only 11 years. I feel it is a great value and well built.
I had a problem a few years back where the handle would slip. Cannon promptly sent someone out, he showed me where the pinch block is and why it will slip. I will buy another, actually I have to buy another.
Not enough room anymore
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  #48  
Old 04-02-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by tsmithson View Post
American Security BF is the best "residential container" safe for the money. The next step up is a TL 15 then TL 30.
Yep and even their electric locks fail. Mine after 3 months. Too their credit and my surprise, they had someone out asap to replace the keypad with a combo lock (at my request) within days.
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  #49  
Old 04-02-2017, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 101st Airborne View Post
Is a dial combo really that difficult? I can open my safe in about 10 seconds, I figure digital is about 2-3 seconds? So you're saving 7-8 seconds? How lazy have we become?
For me, yes, the dial is too difficult.

It isn't a matter of 'quick open', it's a matter of deteriorating vision and relatively poor manual precision. I genuinely cannot open a dial lock without a bright light and very slow turning, because I cannot see the marks well and I cannot reliably stop at the right place.
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  #50  
Old 04-02-2017, 1:36 PM
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Default Gun safe. Replace your digital garbage. NOW WHAT?

I open dial locks many times a day at work, mechanical dials, electronic dials, many variants, would never have a mechanical one on a safe in my emergency go to location. It is far too easy to miss a combo point and have to respin the combo from start. It might take 11sconds if it goes right, or a minute if it goes poorly.

A dial might make sense for a very rarely opened safe or two in your garage. But not the best choice for a closet safe or vault. Electronic or biometric! Fear of all things electronic is a real limitation.


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Last edited by lordmorgul; 04-02-2017 at 1:39 PM..
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  #51  
Old 04-02-2017, 3:16 PM
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I open my safe every day and I only fear piss poor quality electronics on something crucial like my safe. Even high quality safes made in the USA have cheap imported electronics.

See this thread for reference.
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  #52  
Old 04-02-2017, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
I open dial locks many times a day at work, mechanical dials, electronic dials, many variants, would never have a mechanical one on a safe in my emergency go to location. It is far too easy to miss a combo point and have to respin the combo from start. It might take 11sconds if it goes right, or a minute if it goes poorly.

A dial might make sense for a very rarely opened safe or two in your garage. But not the best choice for a closet safe or vault. Electronic or biometric! Fear of all things electronic is a real limitation.
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I did not fear my electronic lock and disregarded the many reports I had read...until mine locked me out. Mechanical dial now for me on my main safe.

Electronic on my little CCW pistol vault
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  #53  
Old 04-03-2017, 7:32 AM
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
I open dial locks many times a day at work, mechanical dials, electronic dials, many variants, would never have a mechanical one on a safe in my emergency go to location. It is far too easy to miss a combo point and have to respin the combo from start. It might take 11sconds if it goes right, or a minute if it goes poorly.
Again........spin the first two numbers and leave it on the second number......know what? Time how long it takes you to spin to that third number.

Two seconds?

Three seconds?

Regardless I imagine it's about on par with a digital lock.

The only drawback I see is if under pressure you screw THAT up.......you have to start over....and like librarian, my eyes are old and I have to use glasses or that's a real possibility.

But how many times can you misdial a electronic lock before it locks you out? 3? 5?

If they were 100% I'd want one......or a dual lock......that sounds great but I don't think I'd trust that Cannon one.....not yet.

Last edited by TurboChrisB; 04-03-2017 at 7:37 AM..
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  #54  
Old 04-04-2017, 9:44 AM
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I did not fear my electronic lock and disregarded the many reports I had read...until mine locked me out. Mechanical dial now for me on my main safe.

Electronic on my little CCW pistol vault
That seems backwards to how I think.

I have always used mechanical locks for reliability and durability on both. As my eyes get older, I can appreciate the ease of an electronic pad on a safe, but my big safe does not store my primary home defense gun. My hand gun safe does and I can't foresee myself using electronics on that application any time soon. The same as I wouldn't rely on a smart gun for home defense.
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  #55  
Old 04-04-2017, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I genuinely cannot open a dial lock without a bright light and very slow turning, because I cannot see the marks well and I cannot reliably stop at the right place.
I can understand that all too well. But there are LED lights that can be mounted above the dial. They may help. Cannon and Liberty both sell them.

https://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Safe-I...afe+dial+light
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  #56  
Old 04-04-2017, 5:31 PM
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I can understand that all too well. But there are LED lights that can be mounted above the dial. They may help. Cannon and Liberty both sell them.

https://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Safe-I...afe+dial+light
No, while a valuable addition....especially with the colored light...you can use it in a lowlight condition and not draw attention to your position, it doesn't improve the readability of the dial. For me....it actually makes it a little worse in a normally lit room. But with my glasses on, no problem.
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  #57  
Old 04-04-2017, 7:51 PM
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Back on topic....where are you Cannon Safes?
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  #58  
Old 04-08-2017, 5:54 AM
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Back on topic....where are you Cannon Safes?
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  #59  
Old 04-16-2017, 7:33 AM
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I can understand that all too well. But there are LED lights that can be mounted above the dial. They may help. Cannon and Liberty both sell them.

https://www.amazon.com/Cannon-Safe-I...afe+dial+light
+some hi viz paint on the dial and some grip tape. There are some things I just want to be mechanical.
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  #60  
Old 04-16-2017, 8:04 AM
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The digital lock on my Cannon went out after a few years as well. A call to Cannon and they sent me a new lock with instructions on how to replace it. No issues.
Me too, Cannon hooked me up with a locksmith who had worked with them for years and years. He opened my safe, and replaced my lock. No issues.
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  #61  
Old 04-16-2017, 8:10 AM
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Originally Posted by TurboChrisB View Post
The "Trick" is too dial in the first two numbers......it's a LOT faster when you only have to rotate it around to the last number....it quickly becomes the "norm" and easily is as fast as a digital lock...in my opinion.
Yep cuz then even the kids and the crooks can open it fast by just turning the dial with light pressure on the handle.

Why even have a safe at all if you are basically going to leave it open???
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  #62  
Old 04-16-2017, 9:30 AM
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Yep cuz then even the kids and the crooks can open it fast by just turning the dial with light pressure on the handle.

Why even have a safe at all if you are basically going to leave it open???
he said to stop on the second number.

At least on every lock I've used, that means you would then need to turn 1 full turn counter clockwise and continue turning till you reach the third number, stop, then turn clockwise back till the pawl engages and the lock opens.

Not just turning a half turn and it opens
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Old 04-16-2017, 9:41 AM
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Personally I prefer mechanical locks, I currently have the S&G with the dual lock. Its a standard dial with a small key tumbler that can lock the dial that can be used in a couple ways. You can enter the combo and open the safe, then when you close the safe just back off the dial and lock the key. only takes a second to flip the key and twist the dial from 100 to 90 and unlock it.

Or you just used the dial like a normal lock and leave the key unlocked all the time. And for extra security you can scramble the dial then lock the key so that nobody can even play with the dial.

For electronic locks, S&G has a new D-Drive system that has an electronic keypad then you turn the outside bezel of the lock to mechanically disengage the deadbolt. This eliminates the problem of a bad deadbolt mechanism or a sticking solenoid inside the door because it uses a tried and true fully mechanical deadbolt thats just coupled to keypad control
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Old 04-16-2017, 9:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Yep cuz then even the kids and the crooks can open it fast by just turning the dial with light pressure on the handle.

Why even have a safe at all if you are basically going to leave it open???
You're joking right? Oh wait, you're not.

Does YOUR safe open on the last number? Mine doesn't...you have to stop on the last number and then spin in the opposite direction. I observed ZERO tactile or audible communication when I stop on that last number. ZERO. I just tried it about 10 times. So tell me how someone would know when they are on the last number? Or do you envision guys dressed in black with a stethoscope "cracking" your safe.

I am confident that the POS neighbor kid or tweaker or home boy that tries to enter my safe (and it is 99.9% likely it'll be one of those ) will not succeed.

In fact the odds of someone actually achieving what you described are so astronomical as to not even be worth consideration and you condescendingly calling it the same as leaving it open is laughable.
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Old 04-16-2017, 9:46 AM
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You're joking right? Oh wait, you're not.

Does YOUR safe open on the last number? Mine doesn't...you have to stop on the last number and then spin in the opposite direction. I observed ZERO tactile or audible communication when I stop on that last number. ZERO. I just tried it about 10 times. So tell me how someone would know when they are on the last number? Or do you envision guys dressed in black with a stethoscope "cracking" your safe.

I am confident that the POS neighbor kid or tweaker or home boy that tries to enter my safe (and it is 99.9% likely it'll be one of those ) will not succeed.

In fact the odds of someone actually achieving what you described are so astronomical as to not even be worth consideration and you condescendingly calling it the same as leaving it open is laughable.
Glad your confident, that is all that matters, isn't it.
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Old 04-16-2017, 9:49 AM
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Glad your confident, that is all that matters, isn't it.
Yes, yes it is. Are you in OC? I'd invite you to come by and see for yourself. I'll even chill a beer for you.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:10 AM
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Never mind that ever safe expert will tell you your method severely compromises the integrity of the safe. Never mind that every bad guy knows thus trick. Never mind that most safe manufactures use a limited number of third numbers. Never mind that the bad guys have nothing better to do with their time then learn the tricks of their trade.

Never mind all these things.

I'm sure you are right.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:20 AM
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Never mind that ever safe expert will tell you your method severely compromises the integrity of the safe.
Of course it does....to a safe cracker.

But this was all brought up because someone questioned how quick a digital was compared to a conventional. A conventional CAN be made to be opened as fast or faster. That's it. No one ever said it was without compromise. But hey, life is a odds game. What are the odds that that small action will be THE reason a safe is compromised? I believe it's pretty much ZERO.



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Never mind that every bad guy knows thus trick.
Which is meaningless as even knowing the "trick" I believe there isn't a chance in hell that they are going to pick the right number (0-90) with their ONE chance to do so, which means, if I'm correct, it gives them NO ADVANTAGE.


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Never mind that most safe manufactures use a limited number of third numbers.
Hmmm, I don't know and have never heard about this...and since I was asked if I wanted to give them the numbers when I bought my safe...it doesn't apply to me since I supplied the numbers.
Personally I like to hear from the pros about whether this is true or not.


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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Never mind that the bad guys have nothing better to do with their time then learn the tricks of their trade.
Correct again...which means that any bad guy worth his salt is going to CUT OPEN your/my safe. NOT try to "crack" it. And that is also why my safe is positioned correctly, securely mounted and my house is additionally protected with a alarm system and angry dogs.


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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Never mind all these things.

I'm sure you are right.
Jeeezzzz, enough with the passive / aggressive BS. For all I know we BOTH could be wrong, It's not all black and white and you're not the end all / know all. But you ARE the one who came into this thread with your "now kids and anyone can get in...why even lock it" BS. And I'm taking issue with that.




Oh yeah, one more thing, you might find this funny. (I do)

I do not personally leave my safe "2 numbers in"
The only purpose for that would be for as "quick as possible" access which I do not need as I have multiple weapons in the home. In case of a life threatening emergency I am NOT running to my gun safe so I leave it fully locked for maximum protection of the contents.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:23 AM
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This is cool stuff. I'm glad to see advances are being made as it seemed the tech on safe locks had stalled for the last decade or so. I'd like to think soon that fingerprint / retina or something like that could be perfected and priced at a reasonable cost soon.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
Personally I prefer mechanical locks, I currently have the S&G with the dual lock. Its a standard dial with a small key tumbler that can lock the dial that can be used in a couple ways. You can enter the combo and open the safe, then when you close the safe just back off the dial and lock the key. only takes a second to flip the key and twist the dial from 100 to 90 and unlock it.

Or you just used the dial like a normal lock and leave the key unlocked all the time. And for extra security you can scramble the dial then lock the key so that nobody can even play with the dial.

For electronic locks, S&G has a new D-Drive system that has an electronic keypad then you turn the outside bezel of the lock to mechanically disengage the deadbolt. This eliminates the problem of a bad deadbolt mechanism or a sticking solenoid inside the door because it uses a tried and true fully mechanical deadbolt thats just coupled to keypad control
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cuda440 View Post
Personally I prefer mechanical locks, I currently have the S&G with the dual lock. Its a standard dial with a small key tumbler that can lock the dial that can be used in a couple ways. You can enter the combo and open the safe, then when you close the safe just back off the dial and lock the key. only takes a second to flip the key and twist the dial from 100 to 90 and unlock it.

Or you just used the dial like a normal lock and leave the key unlocked all the time. And for extra security you can scramble the dial then lock the key so that nobody can even play with the dial.
I'm liking that!
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  #71  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:42 AM
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before I retired, I was the armory supervisor for my last .mil unit..

we were required by instruction to use only group II or greater dials for weapons and weapons keys security..

not saying that our .mil security is the be-all and end-all, but likely more secure than your average homeowner's setup..

I'd wager anything in any of my containers against the ability of the average keyboard commando..

let me know what you're willing to put up on your end..
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:41 PM
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before I retired, I was the armory supervisor for my last .mil unit..

we were required by instruction to use only group II or greater dials for weapons and weapons keys security..

not saying that our .mil security is the be-all and end-all, but likely more secure than your average homeowner's setup..

I'd wager anything in any of my containers against the ability of the average keyboard commando..

let me know what you're willing to put up on your end..
Killer, since this is your first post in this thread, I need to ask: when you say "he ability of the average keyboard commando", what 'ability' do you have in mind?
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Old 04-17-2017, 1:50 PM
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Killer, since this is your first post in this thread, I need to ask: when you say "he ability of the average keyboard commando", what 'ability' do you have in mind?
anyone not professionally trained to defeat combination dial locks..

not trying to get robbed, but the point I'm making is that group II dials are hardly a pushover..

UL defines them quite adequate for residential RSC and general security..

http://www.haymansafe.com/popup/Ratings_-_Group_2
quick search for UL rating, I'm sure there's something more official available elsewhere..

biggest concern most of us [residential users] should have is slowing down an attacker..

dogs, alarm sensors, motion detectors, cameras, etc. should be added to narrow the window of opportunity for an attacker..

I'm sure just about anyone could get in eventually given unlimited time, tools, and disregard for noise and concealment..

this is also why this level of security is acceptable in some .mil applications where the key safes and vaults are also located in areas of other higher security..

please don't rob me bro
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Old 04-20-2017, 7:46 PM
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Cannon sent me a "Hey how did we do?" Email...they ignored me and never replied to this thread or the emails I sent them.
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Old 04-20-2017, 7:51 PM
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Oh yeah, one more thing, you might find this funny. (I do)

I do not personally leave my safe "2 numbers in"
The only purpose for that would be for as "quick as possible" access which I do not need as I have multiple weapons in the home. In case of a life threatening emergency I am NOT running to my gun safe so I leave it fully locked for maximum protection of the contents.
So all that posturing and you actually do the safe thing, you just seem to like suggesting other people don't.

Whatever, A safe was never intended to be a quick draw device.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:29 AM
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Cannon sent me a "Hey how did we do?" Email...they ignored me and never replied to this thread or the emails I sent them.
So did they ever send out a replacement to you?
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:51 AM
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So all that posturing and you actually do the safe thing, you just seem to like suggesting other people don't.

Whatever, A safe was never intended to be a quick draw device.
good point, while I have a 30" and a 40" cannon full size, Mrs Bee and I each have one of these for duty and daily carry guns..

not high security but then we don't store heirlooms or anything important in them, just adequate to keep kids and invited guests out..

and even though they're not that difficult to defeat, they are still bolted in with blind hardware to shelving built in to closet walls..

an attacker would spend a fair amount of the time they have before police arrive to forcibly remove or open them..

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Old 04-21-2017, 3:59 PM
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So did they ever send out a replacement to you?
No.

No contact.
"How did we do?"
Piss poor.
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Old 04-21-2017, 5:00 PM
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Replace with mechanical dial and keyed dial lock option, also a quick detachable safe handle.

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Old 04-22-2017, 1:38 PM
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So all that posturing and you actually do the safe thing, you just seem to like suggesting other people don't.

Whatever, A safe was never intended to be a quick draw device.
Sigh,

Look, you can keep on talking crap and trying to distract from answering my retorts to your comments. It doesn't matter. You're wrong. Repeatedly. You don't like being called out on it. I get it.

There is nothing wrong with what I suggested and I backed it up. You can whine all day long about how bad it is but the truth is obvious.

I choose not to do it. SO WHAT? I don't do it because I don't NEED to. If I did I WOULD.

It's an option. It's NOT what you suggested, insisted or claimed it is. If someone wants access as fast as a digital, there it is.

Last edited by TurboChrisB; 04-22-2017 at 6:10 PM..
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