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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 12-18-2018, 1:30 PM
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Default Bump Stock ban is official - 90 days to surrender or destroy

Congratulations to all of you who supported this. I hope you're happy.

https://www.apnews.com/6c1af80fb290472c89fb930e223505af


The amended regulations reverse a 2010 ATF decision that found bump stocks did not amount to machine guns and could not be regulated unless Congress changed existing firearms law or passed a new one. In the aftermath of the Las Vegas shooting, there was a growing push by some members of Congress to ban bump stocks, but no legislation was passed. At least 10 states have sought their own restrictions on the devices.

People who own bump stocks will be required to either surrender them to the ATF or destroy them by late March, the official said. The change has undergone a legal review and the Justice Department and ATF are ready to fight any legal challenge that may be brought, the official added.
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Old 12-18-2018, 1:33 PM
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Old 12-18-2018, 1:39 PM
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The GOA said they plan to challenge, we'll see how that goes. Hopefully they are successful. Isn't it great that so many "pro 2A people" supported this because "they are useless, no body needs one?" That's some great logic.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:06 PM
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O'bummer didn't take away our bump stocks. What the heck is going on?
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:08 PM
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O'bummer didn't take away our bump stocks. What the heck is going on?
He gaveth, made it legal.
Maybe it's true, Trump really hates Obama, and going to undo everything Obama has done and in some cases outdo him...no matter the cost.

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Old 12-18-2018, 2:09 PM
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Attachment 762028

What troubles me most is the taking. That is a Fifth Amendment violation and a dangerous precedent.
Sure. You seem all broken up about it. Thats why you posted.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:15 PM
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Just chain 2 bumpstocks together and call them bumpchucks.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
The GOA said they plan to challenge, we'll see how that goes. Hopefully they are successful. Isn't it great that so many "pro 2A people" supported this because "they are useless, no body needs one?" That's some great logic.
I agree that they are nearly useless and probably nobody needs one. But that is a far cry from what could be called or deemed support. Since they were legal when acquired, it seems that the new regs are subject to a tacking clause challenge.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Python6357 View Post
The GOA said they plan to challenge, we'll see how that goes. Hopefully they are successful. Isn't it great that so many "pro 2A people" supported this because "they are useless, no body needs one?" That's some great logic.
Yeah, I don't think this is over yet. Even the head of BATFE told congress this was a poor way to go about the ban, and that if that's what they wanted to do, they needed to do it legislatively.

Almost as if it were planned that way. Just sayin'.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:23 PM
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****ing amazing that you can purchase something legally to the letter of the law, then be forced to either destroy it or have it seized with no compensation whatsoever. Welcome to New America.
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2018, 2:26 PM
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****ing amazing that you can purchase something legally to the letter of the law, then be forced to either destroy it or have it seized with no compensation whatsoever. Welcome to New America.
Please.

Regulations like this get tossed out routinely for runnign afoul of the constitution. Good OLD America, where the courts get to have the final say.

Its been like this since the beginning.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
Please.

Regulations like this get tossed out routinely for runnign afoul of the constitution. Good OLD America, where the courts get to have the final say.

Its been like this since the beginning.
I agree, especially when it comes to taking property without compensation. I am curious to see what happens as far as compliance is concerned.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:35 PM
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Regulations which do not conform to laws get challenged in court and they are eventually thrown out.

Unless Congress changes the Law and the President Signs it this is still a nothing burger.


"It emboldens the Anti's" so does Air.
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We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.
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  #14  
Old 12-18-2018, 2:37 PM
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Just chain 2 bumpstocks together and call them bumpchucks.
Wow lol
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Regulations which do not conform to laws get challenged in court and they are eventually thrown out.



Unless Congress changes the Law and the President Signs it this is still a nothing burger.





"It emboldens the Anti's" so does Air.
The President announced he is all For Banning Bump stocks back in march or may of 2018 because Obama legalized it.
I'm pretty certain he is going to sign it.

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Old 12-18-2018, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Demo2A View Post
The President announced he is all For Banning Bump stocks back in march or may of 2018 because Obama legalized it.
I'm pretty certain he is going to sign it.

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There is nothing for him to sign, this is an administrative regulation by BATFE and as Citadelgrad 87 pointed out regulations are routinely overturned by the courts. If it is overturned, I don't believe Trump will lose any sleep over it.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:47 PM
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The President announced he is all For Banning Bump stocks back in march or may of 2018 because Obama legalized it.
I'm pretty certain he is going to sign it.

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Please for the love if god....go to a JC and learn how YOUR federal government works.......I suggest learning about the 3 separate but equal branch of government and there duties....
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:52 PM
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Please for the love if god....go to a JC and learn how YOUR federal government works.......I suggest learning about the 3 separate but equal branch of government and there duties....
I'm pretty certain he is going to sign it, if it comes across his desk*

There fixed it for you. You angry little man.

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Old 12-18-2018, 2:52 PM
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If they can do it with a republican house, senate and executive branch. Wait till the Democrats take control of the Federal government. Eventually it will happen, demographics will change. Then they will start with ugly firearms working toward Fudd guns.

But I had a question, who will obey and enforce this law? Where is the NRA???????????????????????
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:55 PM
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If they can do it with a republican house, senate and executive branch. Wait till the Democrats take control of the Federal government. Eventually it will happen, demographics will change. Then they will start with ugly firearms working toward Fudd guns.



But I had a question, who will obey and enforce this law? Where is the NRA???????????????????????
Here

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  #21  
Old 12-18-2018, 2:58 PM
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I'm pretty certain he is going to sign it, if it comes across his desk*

There fixed it for you. You angry little man.

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You didn't fix anything, you reinforced his point. This is not a law. It is an administrative regulation issued by the ATF. There is nothing for Trump to sign.
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Old 12-18-2018, 2:58 PM
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I'm pretty certain he is going to sign it, if it comes across his desk*

There fixed it for you. You angry little man.

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There is no “it”. This is a regulation, not a bill. There is nothing for him to sign. Legislation doesnt work that way.
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:01 PM
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You didn't fix anything, you reinforced his point. This is not a law. It is an administrative regulation issued by the ATF. There is nothing for Trump to sign.
Executive orders are one type of document he can sign, of course Congress has the power to overturn it.

So...who needs to go to JC?

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Old 12-18-2018, 3:08 PM
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Executive orders are one type of document he can sign, of course Congress has the power to overturn it.

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The executive order directing the ATF to issue the new regulation was signed months ago. Why do you think they made up the new reg, when according to the chief, they apparently didn't really want to?
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:09 PM
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The executive order directing the ATF to issue the new regulation was signed months ago. Why do you think they made up the new reg, when according to the chief, they apparently didn't really want to.
But is it not a document he can Sign which at times be considered laws?

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Old 12-18-2018, 3:10 PM
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Executive orders are one type of document he can sign, of course Congress has the power to overturn it.

So...who needs to go to JC?

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Uh, wrong. The court is the branch that overturns regs.
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:11 PM
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But is it not a document he can Sign which at times be considered laws?

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No, and even if he signed it, its not a law unless it was first a bill.....
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:13 PM
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The GOA said they plan to challenge, we'll see how that goes. Hopefully they are successful. Isn't it great that so many "pro 2A people" supported this because "they are useless, no body needs one?" That's some great logic.
Classic scapegoating. It would have passed regardless of how many pro 2A people supported it or didn't support it.
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:14 PM
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No, and even if he signed it, its not a law unless it was first a bill.....
I don't think this conversation between us is headed nowhere, as it seems we all have different beliefs and hard skulls. From the National Constitution Center.

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Old 12-18-2018, 3:26 PM
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I don't think this conversation between us is headed nowhere, as it seems we all have different beliefs and hard skulls.

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“Same power as law” is not the same as being a law. Part of the attraction and opposition to EOs is they ARE NOT laws, they involve the executive branch, which is supposed to enforce the law, making law, which is to be the legislative branch’s job.

Administrative agencies sometimes enact regulations, which are known as backdoor legislations, and such regulations do not have the same force as law.
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:28 PM
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I think this needs to be brought back.






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Old 12-18-2018, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Demo2A View Post
I'm pretty certain he is going to sign it, if it comes across his desk*

There fixed it for you. You angry little man.

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He's not angry, he's educated and informed. Maybe you should try it sometime so you don't keep making erroneous comments and then compound them with name calling.
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Demo2A View Post
I don't think this conversation between us is headed nowhere, as it seems we all have different beliefs and hard skulls. From the National Constitution Center.

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Executive orders do have the force of law. However, they can only be issued to direct the operations of the federal government and it's various agencies.

For example, here Trump issued an order to the BATFE to ban bump stocks. It would be illegal for them to disobey his order. But the executive order is not what banned bump stocks. The regulation that ATF issued did that.

He could not however issue an order to tell retailers that they cannot make or sell bump stocks because the are no government agency operations involved in that.

Executive orders are reviewable by Congress and/or the courts, and can be undone by either for cause.
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Citadelgrad87 View Post
“Same power as law” is not the same as being a law. Part of the attraction and opposition to EOs is they ARE NOT laws, they involve the executive branch, which is supposed to enforce the law, making law, which is to be the legislative branch’s job.



Administrative agencies sometimes enact regulations, which are known as backdoor legislations, and such regulations do not have the same force as law.
So, it is not unlawful for CA to keep supporting sanctuary **** even though Trump gave EO saying he will cut funds, since there is a backdoor and his EO means jack? Ok, understood (not a sarcastic answer, if you took it like, just i understand now.)



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Old 12-18-2018, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mjmagee67 View Post
Please for the love if god....go to a JC and learn how YOUR federal government works.......I suggest learning about the 3 separate but equal branch of government and there duties....
You ain't going to learn anything from a JC, or a university, nowadays - especially when it cones to The Constiution.
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:37 PM
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Bumped out of existence! Was a bumpy road for those things.
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:39 PM
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I think everyone should send the ATF a box of rubber bands with a note: "I am hereby turning in my bump stocks for destruction."
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:42 PM
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He's not angry, he's educated and informed. Maybe you should try it sometime so you don't keep making erroneous comments and then compound them with name calling.
Oh, I see an offensive reply only works one way. If he wanted a civil response, he should of replied to my post in civil manner. I have no issue in learning things different than what I was told, but if someone is straight "haha im smarter than you, you dont know anything" attitude in responses, he should expect replies back with similar attitude.
Respect isn't a one way street.

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  #39  
Old 12-18-2018, 3:57 PM
YubaRiver YubaRiver is offline
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Yes, the "stock" market is down, Zoobows are legal, Trump illegally bans 2A protected gear.

What is this world coming too?
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Old 12-18-2018, 3:57 PM
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ja308 ja308 is offline
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1st off what kind of RKBA advocate posts something from the AP which has been proud to be antigun and another media wing of the democrat party?

2nd this whole slob stock issue is being used by anti gunners on this forum and elsewhere to try and drive down the Presidents numbers.

3rd anyone who uses or would want a slob stock is not gun culture and would be unable to hit a 20 minute target@100yards unless off a bench. Maybe not even then !

4th the story here which is far above many cal gunners intelligence is why this mass murder in Las Vegas has fallen off the radar, when no answers have been provided as to motive or why response was delayed, press conferences cancelled etc,etc etc.

But hey cal gunners go back to the AP and suck in their vile propaganda and your rights will go away along with President Trump !
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