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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 01-07-2014, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by riderr View Post
The bill in the way it's written (provided it doesn't apply to fieldstripping or otherwise cleaning) is absolutely non-enforceable. I just need to make sure there are no manufacturer's mark on part, so I can clam the gun was built a decade ago.
All mine were built before the law was enacted.
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  #82  
Old 01-07-2014, 2:56 PM
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For those wishing to find dirt on De Leon, this unsealed FBI affidavit asserting bribery/corruption in order to advance his own self-serving political agenda is a good read :

http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...ml#document/p1

Page 12 section h is where it begins to mention the degree to which he was complicit in everything with Calderon. Be forewarned, the total affidavit length is 125 pages.
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  #83  
Old 01-07-2014, 2:59 PM
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Sure is a never ending cycle here in California...another attempt to pass a law that only screws those of us who follow the rules.
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  #84  
Old 01-07-2014, 3:00 PM
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Even if the leftists achieved their ultimate panacea of a complete confiscation, a moderately effective firearm is just not THAT mechanically or chemically complicated.

Outside of the outright tyranny of that, who thinks the miscreants couldn't/wouldn't still be running with zip/pipe guns shooting out rocks or nails for their hold ups? Your average cracked out gang bangers might be too dumb but anyone who wants to can probably figure that out especially in the internet age. Now imagine the low hanging fruit that the moron legislators would try next.
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  #85  
Old 01-07-2014, 3:26 PM
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This isnt going to stop until every tool that can possibly be used to build a firearm is regulated. I cant wait till I need to DROS my shovel at home depot.
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  #86  
Old 01-07-2014, 3:31 PM
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This isnt going to stop until every tool that can possibly be used to build a firearm is regulated. I cant wait till I need to DROS my shovel at home depot.
"I'm sorry sir, but you didn't pass the background check to purchase that piece of sheet metal"
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  #87  
Old 01-07-2014, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cabinetguy View Post
This isnt going to stop until every tool that can possibly be used to build a firearm is regulated. I cant wait till I need to DROS my shovel at home depot.
LOL. Lets see if they add that to the list of bills. "Assault Shovels"

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbu...nami-warning!?

Also added the original link to my signature. Maybe some people will get involved in one way or another before its panic and buy time in Fall 2014.

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  #88  
Old 01-07-2014, 3:45 PM
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What freedom do you lose in AZ? I can CCW there once I cross the border, making it my current favorite state.

I vote we move to a part time legislature in CA, and pay these idiots minimum wage. They seem to have WAY too much free time the way things are.

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You don't suddenly gain your freedom by crossing the AZ boarder. You just trade it some for others.
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  #89  
Old 01-07-2014, 3:59 PM
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Let them read the forums. Let them hear us. Let them try and use our words against us.

Matter of fact let them use these words: "BAN ALL WEAPONS, GUNS, KNIVES, BATS, and SHOVELS!"

Now sit back and wait for them to reach to far, this is the only way we as a people will truly unite and stand up for what was once ours.

On the other hand I'll be opening a new company soon to sell Off List Shovels and Modern Sporting Shovels LOL!
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  #90  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
All mine were built before the law was enacted.
Necessarily - this bill is not yet law.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #91  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I agree. There's no other value to associating guns with people.
<snip>
And, when the statists try to solve that little problem by requiring technology to track us every moment (you do have a cell phone, don't you?)? Well, I'll just leave this here as a reminder:

This cuts right to the heart of the matter as far as I'm concerned. Eventually Americans will have to decide if they will submit to a government mandated tracking/ID system and turn in their firearms. I truly believe it is a decision we will be faced with eventually, and I'm afraid that many Americans will go along with it.
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  #92  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Over rated! There is just as much mis information on the site as helpful.

Much of that mis information is what helped in the defeat of many many bills authored by anti gun politicians.

Remember too that the $24,000 a year staffers are the ones putting this together for the elected official.

Personally, I think it's pretty funny. As time goes on many of these bills will get killed in court.
Im skeptical on that claim then again I can't disprove it, but for our/everyones sake I hope your right. Either way, showcasing the info in question in the vicinity of these statist is what made it known to them in the first place and their unopposed stabs have begun. Even if this bill fails a new and more thought out one will emerge, refer to yee and his 2nd attempt at banning BB's .

We need to be smarter in regards to what we make known around certain people and acknowledge that we're against the ropes in this struggle. We need to accept that we're dealing with lawmakers that are allowed to disregard logic and lie to push their agenda with no threat of repercussions.
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  #93  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:22 PM
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I can see Jerry Brown easily signing this.
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  #94  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallabing View Post
I can see Jerry Brown easily signing this.
Right you are. I knew he would veto SB374 because it was a legal nightmare, but this can be pitched as "registration loophole closure" and the language can be tweaked.

If it makes it to his desk, he'll sign it. He likes registration.
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  #95  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
I guess De Leon's crew has been reading CalGuns too.

not like this place is secure anyways. with everyone pointing out all the holes in legislation it's only a matter of time before breathing is illegal.
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  #96  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I
And, when the statists try to solve that little problem by requiring technology to track us every moment (you do have a cell phone, don't you?)? Well, I'll just leave this here as a reminder:
if this were to come to pass then the United States would cease to exist and the United Socialist States of America will be born.
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  #97  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:32 PM
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In lighter news, 80% lower manufacturers are going to make a fortune this year due to the panic!
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  #98  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:36 PM
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Thanks for posting this Librarian.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #99  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:38 PM
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The title of the thread needs to reflect that a background check will be required before issuance of any serial number -if this piece of feces were to exit the rectum of the california state legislature and be signed by Governor Brown
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  #100  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:41 PM
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What would prohibit a serial number issued by the DOJ from being applied to several firearms of the same type and caliber by the assembler? Or surreptitiously duplicated and used by a criminal for their builds? Would an 'assembler' be subject to the 10 day wait, as are sales or transfers? Would this wait be for the raw materials or the commencement of assembly or the completed product?
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  #101  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
What would prohibit a serial number issued by the DOJ from being applied to several firearms of the same type and caliber by the assembler? Or surreptitiously duplicated and used by a criminal for their builds? Would an 'assembler' be subject to the 10 day wait, as are sales or transfers? Would this wait be for the raw materials or the commencement of assembly or the completed product?
Good questions -don't think they've thought that far ahead...
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  #102  
Old 01-07-2014, 4:57 PM
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To all trying to blame us for giving ideas:

1. Take a hike.

2. They ain't stupid - if we thought it - they already have - it's just a matter of when they think they can get away with it.

3. They moment you censor yourself - THEY WIN! To censor yourself IS to shut yourself down. That EXACTLY what they want - it's a psych warfare tactic in politics.

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  #103  
Old 01-07-2014, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallabing View Post
I can see Jerry Brown easily signing this.
The bill is very raw and full of loopholes. Hopefully, it won't even reach the legislature and die at the committee.
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  #104  
Old 01-07-2014, 5:19 PM
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I don't want to give away too many loopholes, but I can see a major problem with assigning a serial number. Would you apply for a number before starting a part, when it was partially complete or when it was finished? No matter what the answer is, at some point you would have to be breaking the law regardless of how much you tried to comply. If you applied for and got a serial number, then never completed the part what would the status be?
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  #105  
Old 01-07-2014, 5:20 PM
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I wonder when this turd will go after "ghost ammunition" and try to make us get some sort of permit to reload.
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When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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Dude went full CNN...
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  #106  
Old 01-07-2014, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxmaster05 View Post
For those wishing to find dirt on De Leon, this unsealed FBI affidavit asserting bribery/corruption in order to advance his own self-serving political agenda is a good read :

http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...ml#document/p1

Page 12 section h is where it begins to mention the degree to which he was complicit in everything with Calderon. Be forewarned, the total affidavit length is 125 pages.
And every page worth reading. Wow.
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  #107  
Old 01-07-2014, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riderr View Post
The bill in the way it's written (provided it doesn't apply to fieldstripping or otherwise cleaning) is absolutely non-enforceable. I just need to make sure there are no manufacturer's mark on part, so I can clam the gun was built a decade ago.
They don't care.

What seems to be the intent is to create as much FUD as possible. AB 48, the 'conversion kit' bill is a prominent example. With enough fear, uncertainty and doubt (a deliberate product of the 'unclarity' of the bill, IMO), sensible people who fear punishment (i.e. folks who have jobs and families) will hesitate to test the language.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #108  
Old 01-07-2014, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by saki302 View Post
What freedom do you lose in AZ? I can CCW there once I cross the border, making it my current favorite state.
Leftist talking points. They will bring up gay marriage or some other bull****.
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  #109  
Old 01-07-2014, 5:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ehline View Post
Thanks all you fools on Calguns for providing a road map for the commie interns at the Cal Duma assembly to read, when they are not flying rainbow flags at anti American rallies.
You seriously think that. This I what these people do, sit around and think of stupid crap.
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  #110  
Old 01-07-2014, 6:56 PM
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Here we go again, fellas.
Thank you to the voters of Los Angeles for foisting this on us another year and of course, for the Santa Monica shooter for giving him the platform to do it.
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  #111  
Old 01-07-2014, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Ehline View Post
Thanks all you fools on Calguns for providing a road map for the commie interns at the Cal Duma assembly to read, when they are not flying rainbow flags at anti American rallies.
If I re-assemble my pre-1968 Marlin Glenfield Model 70 that was never given a serial number, will I be breaking the law?
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  #112  
Old 01-07-2014, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by riderr View Post
The bill is very raw and full of loopholes. Hopefully, it won't even reach the legislature and die at the committee.
For every 'loophole' created, there will be a NEED to close said loophole. Just like Yee's anti-bullet button babble.

That's really part of the point and the strategy.

Step 1: Pass an overreaching and confusing law.
Step 2: Make additional bills touting them as 'closing the loophole that the gun manufacturers are exploiting'.
Step 3: First law becomes even more overreaching.

It is actually pretty ingenious when you look at the big picture.
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  #113  
Old 01-07-2014, 8:03 PM
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Many of us have thought this for years but I will state it again. Our opponents are not dumb, they are very smart and much better strategists than we have proven to be. Just because these politicians put their name on poorly thought out bills, they are not stupid. They are taking the FUD route, as noted above, and that is working, to a point. Law abiding citizens don't want to break the laws, they know that, they put out metric tons of FUD and a lot of it sticks, depriving us of our civil rights. Our enemies have the media and the government's power (military and law enforcement) on their side, what do they have to lose? If only we had the numbers to do what the people of Colorado did with their politicians, we wouldn't see messes like this here on an almost monthly basis.

Hate to say it, but California Gun Owners are their own worst enemy. We, as a group, fall victim over and over again to the outrageous acts of cowardice and aggression toward our rights. Our enemies continually outflank us and pummel us with salvo after salvo. We are holding position, but we are still slowly losing the culture war, therefore the civil rights war. We are losing amongst ourselves because the main core of gun owners seem to alienate women, youth, new shooters, people of color and gays, they can't seem to understand that old saying, "united we stand, divided we fall", much to our detriment. We are and will continue to pay the price for being white male gun guys who don't welcome the largest voter majority blocs into our fold with open arms. Been saying it for years, will continue to say it until it changes.

We are rapidly reaching the time with laws like this when the law abiding will simply ignore these pathetic, incremental steps toward disarmament, whether they pass into law or not.
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  #114  
Old 01-07-2014, 8:04 PM
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Lol. Kdl at his finest.
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  #115  
Old 01-07-2014, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaligaran View Post
For every 'loophole' created, there will be a NEED to close said loophole. Just like Yee's anti-bullet button babble.

That's really part of the point and the strategy.

Step 1: Pass an overreaching and confusing law.
Step 2: Make additional bills touting them as 'closing the loophole that the gun manufacturers are exploiting'.
Step 3: First law becomes even more overreaching.

It is actually pretty ingenious when you look at the big picture.
You forgot to include;

Create an unnavigable labyrinth of exemptions that do not apply to most people to create the illusion of a prohibition that is not overly burdensome on the core right.
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  #116  
Old 01-07-2014, 8:29 PM
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As written... not enforcable.

Like swiss cheese... full of holes.

Oh Kevin... did no one want to play with you in elementary school?

Still mad after all these years... it seems.
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Old 01-07-2014, 8:33 PM
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peter209 peter209 is offline
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So assuming this does go through, what happens to currently built 80% paper weights? Are we just going to have put serial numbers on them or are we grandfathered in?
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Old 01-07-2014, 8:41 PM
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If they are built, they are not paper weights
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Old 01-07-2014, 8:43 PM
Foxmaster05 Foxmaster05 is offline
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Capybara, I emphatically agree with you. Social dynamics have changed and so too the battlefield strategy must adapt.
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Old 01-07-2014, 8:54 PM
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Capybara Capybara is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter209 View Post
So assuming this does go through, what happens to currently built 80% paper weights? Are we just going to have put serial numbers on them or are we grandfathered in?
Who knows? When the others say this thing has more holes than Swiss Cheese, this is what they mean. As the bill sits, it would be totally unenforceable but once again, our opponents aren't dumb. We shouldn't write their bill for them. For now, this bill means nothing, I wouldn't even give it a second thought. Toward the end of the year, that's when it may become something to be concerned about.
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