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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 01-07-2014, 9:48 AM
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Some Calgunners obviously never look at a dictionary:

"free
frē/
adjective
adjective: free; comparative adjective: freer; superlative adjective: freest

1.
not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
"I have no ambitions other than to have a happy life and be free"
(of a state or its citizens or institutions) subject neither to foreign domination nor to despotic government.
"a free press"
synonyms: independent, self-governing, self-governed, self-ruling, self-determining, nonaligned, sovereign, autonomous; More
democratic
"a citizen of a free nation"
antonyms: dependent
not or no longer confined or imprisoned.
"the researchers set the birds free"
synonyms: on the loose, at liberty, at large; More
loose, unconfined, unbound, untied, unchained, untethered, unshackled, unfettered, unrestrained
"the killer is still free"
antonyms: captive
historical
not a slave.
able or permitted to take a specified action.
"you are free to leave"
synonyms: allowed, permitted; More
able, in a position to
"you are free to leave"
antonyms: unable
denoting an ethnic or political group actively opposing an occupying or invading force, in particular the groups that continued resisting the Germans in World War II after the fall of their countries.
2.
not physically restrained, obstructed, or fixed; unimpeded.
"she lifted the cat free"
synonyms: unimpeded, unobstructed, unrestricted, unhampered, clear, open, unblocked More


So as Free Men, we should only whisper in dark corners about exercising our civil rights? If what we talk about is legal, then we should talk about it. They've obviously already won the battle, you're acting like a Jew in Germany in 1936.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manny View Post
++1 on this one, we have to learn how to STFU. We're just giving them more and more rope to hang us with. Again, all together now, STFU.
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Last edited by Capybara; 01-07-2014 at 9:51 AM..
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  #42  
Old 01-07-2014, 9:53 AM
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Wonderful.


So I wonder if they'll count "assembling" a firearm as when you clean one. In which case, what would be to stop them requiring a serial number to even PURCHASE cleaning supplies? Where does the idiocy stop?
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  #43  
Old 01-07-2014, 9:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shda5582 View Post
Where does the idiocy stop?
As soon as you cross over that border to Arizona or Nevada?
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  #44  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ehline View Post
Thanks all you fools on Calguns for providing a road map for the commie interns at the Cal Duma assembly to read, when they are not flying rainbow flags at anti American rallies.
^^^ +infinity
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  #45  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:18 AM
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looks like deleon has will be gunning for steinberg's later this year

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/01/05/604...move-past.html
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  #46  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertjosh View Post
I really hate this state.
For the most part, I still like CA. I just really dislike De Leon, Ye, Feinstein, Steinberg, Baca, and a handful of other individuals for their morals & decisions. And that's my right of free speech to express my opinion.
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  #47  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drair View Post
^^^ +infinity
Over rated! There is just as much mis information on the site as helpful.

Much of that mis information is what helped in the defeat of many many bills authored by anti gun politicians.

Remember too that the $24,000 a year staffers are the ones putting this together for the elected official.

Personally, I think it's pretty funny. As time goes on many of these bills will get killed in court.
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  #48  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:26 AM
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It's for the children

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  #49  
Old 01-07-2014, 10:32 AM
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Ugh...

DeLeon needs to get a "real" job...
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  #50  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Medic View Post
Signed by fall. Effective 1/1/15, I would wager.
The index thread first post has links to all the mechanics of bill passage - see the link in my signature.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #51  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:40 AM
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Blaming this on people talking about it is ridiculous. They will target EVERY gun sooner or later. Start blaming voters who elected these criminals.
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Last edited by njineermike; 01-07-2014 at 11:43 AM..
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  #52  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armando de la Guerra View Post
His webpage is about nothing but the blood dance.
http://sd22.senate.ca.gov/
I'd love to see the break down of the death list he's exploiting in real numbers and statistics. For example: Law abiding gun owner killings, # of illegal gun killings, criminals, gangbangers, mental illness etc.

Then an explanation as to how his laws will stop the individuals who do not care about or obey gun laws.

Beating the dead horse here. Posting for him and his staffers reading this.
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  #53  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:52 AM
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You know, I am choosing the advise from Thomas Jefferson who said it is the duty of every citizen to ignore unjust laws (paraphrasing). I WILL NOT COMPLY!!! I will still build my own and I will not register any home builds. It's time we take a stand and protest these laws.


Sent from somewhere in time & space...
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  #54  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobler View Post
You know, I am choosing the advise from Thomas Jefferson who said it is the duty of every citizen to ignore unjust laws (paraphrasing). I WILL NOT COMPLY!!! I will still build my own and I will not register any home builds. It's time we take a stand and protest these laws.


Sent from somewhere in time & space...
I plan on pouring as many polymer lowers as I can. I may make so many lowers I use them as lamps and paperweights.
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When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

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  #55  
Old 01-07-2014, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armando de la Guerra View Post
There's already a sn on the lower, but they don't want that one. They want to issue one, that I, what? make a label of some sort and super glue to....where?
While lowers do have s/n's, that's not what is targeted with this bill. He's after the 80% paper weights. Those do not have a s/n, nor are they required to by ATF. And, as others have pointed out, there are numerous older guns that were never required to have s/n's. This bill is full of fail among other things.
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"Our policy should not be informed by our collective outrage about one man's conduct." AG Kamala Harris referring to San Francisco's sanctuary policy and 7 time convicted felon and illegal alien Jose Ines Garcia Zarate .
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...Nor may we relegate the bearing of arms to a “second-class right, subject to an entirely different body of rules than the other Bill of Rights guarantees that we have held to be incorporated into the Due Process Clause.”
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  #56  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
As time goes on many of these bills will get killed in court.
What makes you think so?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyhog
When the governor vetoes a bill that would make it a felony to steal a gun, but signs a bill into law that makes it a felony not to register a gun you already legally own, you know something isn't right.
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  #57  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ehline View Post
Thanks all you fools on Calguns for providing a road map for the commie interns at the Cal Duma assembly to read, when they are not flying rainbow flags at anti American rallies.
Don't be a fool. Your comment is foolish and bullcrap.

Don't put the blame of actions from the likes of Anti-2nd Amendment types like DeLeon on us. One should be able to openly discuss their rights under the law, and this has been nothing new. We weren't in anyone's face over it, build-parties advertised or not. I recall reading about "80% receivers" in Shotgun News back in the late 1970's long before Al Gore invented the "internet".

The knowledge, widespread resources, discussions, and details of "80%" builds and home builds reach far beyond the likes of Calguns.net, have done so for decades, and for all you know, he pulled it from that cockhead Bryan Schatz that did his little expose' on "Mother Jones" of builds and build parties.


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ghlight=Schatz

So, by your take, if we ever talked about how to collect Russian SVT-40 rifles, that AB809 banning FTF sales was our fault? Or that if we talk about how to zero in our scopes for better accuracy, or discuss scopes in general, and then Koretz comes along and wants to ban all scopes over a certain power, we contributed to his bill?

Put the blame where it belongs; this is all on DeLeon, and only DeLeon - possibly his staff included.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?

Last edited by The Gleam; 01-07-2014 at 12:26 PM..
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  #58  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody_special View Post
What makes you think so?
Many of the bills that passed may very well be unconstitutional (federal)

The stars in the courts simply need to be lined up. There are many cases in the court system right now that are moving this forward.
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  #59  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
As soon as you cross over that border to Arizona or Nevada?
Definitely not, you go from Disneyland to Alice in Wonderland in the CA to AZ transition. You don't suddenly gain your freedom by crossing the AZ boarder. You just trade it some for others.

Nevada on the other-hand is well on it's way to doing their best to be free. Much better choice IMHO.
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  #60  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by six seven tango View Post
He's after the 80% paper weights.
I don't think he is after 80% builds so much, but more after 3D printed guns:

Quote:
Tuesday, December 17, 2013
SACRAMENTO -- Angered by Congressional failure last week to address the emerging threat of untraceable and undetectable guns, made possible by manufacturing with three-dimensional printers, Senator Kevin de Leόn (D-Los Angeles) today announced he would introduce legislation to ban the sale, manufacture, purchase and trafficking of “ghost guns” unless they are pre-registered with the Department of Justice through a serial number and gun owner background check.
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  #61  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoGuy View Post
I don't think he is after 80% builds so much, but more after 3D printed guns:
He's afraid of unicorns too.
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When did I go from being a "citizen" to a "taxpayer"?

Jon Lovitz: ‘I can’t wait to go to a hospital run by the DMV!’

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Dude went full CNN...
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  #62  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody_special View Post
What makes you think so?
Recent stuff like... today:

Judge rules Chicago Ban on Gun Sales is Unconstitutional

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-rules-ch...--finance.html


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #63  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:24 PM
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Blaming it on Calguns members is shortsighted at best. I was watching youtube videos and reading about firearms manufacturing long, long before joining here. Willing to bet de Leon's fellow tyrants have access to the same internet I do.
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  #64  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
The index thread first post has links to all the mechanics of bill passage - see the link in my signature.
Well, yes. It will have to go through the committees, probably amended a couple of times, voted on by the houses, etc. I guess I was just making an assumption to the final outcome.
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I've never understood why any of our Constitutional rights are governed by the very institution they were put in place to protect us from.
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It is not wise to create criminals where none exist. Especially when those newly-minted criminals may or may not be heavily armed with guns you know nothing about.
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Originally Posted by U.S. General Tony McAuliff
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  #65  
Old 01-07-2014, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
I plan on pouring as many polymer lowers as I can. I may make so many lowers I use them as lamps and paperweights.
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  #66  
Old 01-07-2014, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobler View Post
You know, I am choosing the advise from Thomas Jefferson who said it is the duty of every citizen to ignore unjust laws (paraphrasing). I WILL NOT COMPLY!!! I will still build my own and I will not register any home builds. It's time we take a stand and protest these laws.
Agreed!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoGuy View Post
I don't think he is after 80% builds so much, but more after 3D printed guns:
I think he is going after all home builds. 3D and 80%. Trying to ensure total registration on everything.
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Originally Posted by TeddyBallgame View Post
I've never understood why any of our Constitutional rights are governed by the very institution they were put in place to protect us from.
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
It is not wise to create criminals where none exist. Especially when those newly-minted criminals may or may not be heavily armed with guns you know nothing about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.S. General Tony McAuliff
"Men, we are surrounded by the enemy. That means we have the greatest opportunity ever presented to an army. We can attack in any direction we choose."
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  #67  
Old 01-07-2014, 1:14 PM
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You have to ask yourself, what is this compulsion that these politicians have for gun registration? What purpose does it serve? What scenario would need all legally possessed firearms to be serialized and registered?
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  #68  
Old 01-07-2014, 1:15 PM
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Confiscation
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  #69  
Old 01-07-2014, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Medic View Post
Well, yes. It will have to go through the committees, probably amended a couple of times, voted on by the houses, etc. I guess I was just making an assumption to the final outcome.
Oops; sorry medic, I was intending to quote the post to which you were responding.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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  #70  
Old 01-07-2014, 1:32 PM
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Yup inevitable. They'll be another one or two in addition to another mandatory SA registration and/or ban (Son of SB374) regardless of anything written about here.

The only way to stop this is strict scrutiny on the 2nd Amendment. Keep at the very least but ideally both Keep and Bear.
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  #71  
Old 01-07-2014, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Oops; sorry medic, I was intending to quote the post to which you were responding.
No worries.

My response was overly simplistic. i was being a drama queen.
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Originally Posted by TeddyBallgame View Post
I've never understood why any of our Constitutional rights are governed by the very institution they were put in place to protect us from.
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Originally Posted by POLICESTATE View Post
It is not wise to create criminals where none exist. Especially when those newly-minted criminals may or may not be heavily armed with guns you know nothing about.
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Originally Posted by U.S. General Tony McAuliff
"Men, we are surrounded by the enemy. That means we have the greatest opportunity ever presented to an army. We can attack in any direction we choose."
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  #72  
Old 01-07-2014, 1:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
Some Calgunners obviously never look at a dictionary:

"free
frē/
adjective
adjective: free; comparative adjective: freer; superlative adjective: freest

1.
not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
"I have no ambitions other than to have a happy life and be free"
(of a state or its citizens or institutions) subject neither to foreign domination nor to despotic government.
"a free press"
synonyms: independent, self-governing, self-governed, self-ruling, self-determining, nonaligned, sovereign, autonomous; More
democratic
"a citizen of a free nation"
antonyms: dependent
not or no longer confined or imprisoned.
"the researchers set the birds free"
synonyms: on the loose, at liberty, at large; More
loose, unconfined, unbound, untied, unchained, untethered, unshackled, unfettered, unrestrained
"the killer is still free"
antonyms: captive
historical
not a slave.
able or permitted to take a specified action.
"you are free to leave"
synonyms: allowed, permitted; More
able, in a position to
"you are free to leave"
antonyms: unable
denoting an ethnic or political group actively opposing an occupying or invading force, in particular the groups that continued resisting the Germans in World War II after the fall of their countries.
2.
not physically restrained, obstructed, or fixed; unimpeded.
"she lifted the cat free"
synonyms: unimpeded, unobstructed, unrestricted, unhampered, clear, open, unblocked More


So as Free Men, we should only whisper in dark corners about exercising our civil rights? If what we talk about is legal, then we should talk about it. They've obviously already won the battle, you're acting like a Jew in Germany in 1936.
Our founding fathers conspired in dark corners to create the blueprints of this country for fear of being arrested by the British. The difference of what you're saying, and what he's saying is the fact that we are NOT "free men" in this state. This is NOT a free state. We are in a battle for our rights. We can not tip our hand and show them how we intend to take our rights back. This is a legislative war, and by openly discussing our strategies & their loopholes we are doing their job for them. I'm entirely blaming CalGuns or its members, but we have made it pretty easy for them to come up with new ways to infringe on our 2A rights.
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95,000,000 people die each day in the U.S. from gun violence

Last edited by furyous68; 01-07-2014 at 1:49 PM..
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Old 01-07-2014, 1:46 PM
furyous68 furyous68 is offline
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I plan on pouring as many polymer lowers as I can. I may make so many lowers I use them as lamps and paperweights.
LOL.. reminds me of the lamp from "The Big Outdoors":

"This is a lamp...."
"Yeah, but it's loaded!"

Love John Candy.
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95,000,000 people die each day in the U.S. from gun violence
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Old 01-07-2014, 1:51 PM
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Confiscation
I agree. There's no other value to associating guns with people.

The claim that it assists public safety is bogus.

I'll repeat something I've posted a couple times:

Suppose we had perfect registration - every firearm not in a store waiting to be sold would be associated with a person and that person's address, and there would be a legal requirement to maintain current address on file with DMV or whomever. (The system is 'perfect' - for this discussion, assume the best possible spin and answer to every objection you may have; we'll get to 'reality' in a bit.)

In such a condition, an inquiry on an address would return the names of people living at that address and any guns that would be registered to them.

Similarly, a license-plate check would tie to the registered owner's address, and the same info would be returned
Given a need for police to go to an address on a call, or to make a traffic stop, and

given that the police would have 'perfect' information on the owners of vehicles or residents at an address, and the guns they might have,

could police confidently assume no guns were present if the inquiry returned 'no guns'?
No, of course not.

There's no way to know who is at the address or in the vehicle at the time of the call.

Visitors to the address or passengers in the vehicle, and other circumstances, may place a registered gun owner (with or without a gun) at a place where no people registered to have guns reside or in a vehicle not registered to a registered gun owner.

Responding LEO would have to act defensively, exactly as they would if the 'perfect' system did not exist at all.

(And police, being employees of government, know all too well how imperfect such a system would be in practice - just as the rest of us know.)

And, when the statists try to solve that little problem by requiring technology to track us every moment (you do have a cell phone, don't you?)? Well, I'll just leave this here as a reminder:
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- Thomas Sowell
I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.


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Old 01-07-2014, 2:00 PM
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well…at least all my home built firearms are built before the law….
now if there's a provision for retroactively going after those…...
I'm still going to fight this to the best of my ability and spread the word….
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Old 01-07-2014, 2:14 PM
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WTB: multiautomatic ghost gun with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Must include shoulder thing that goes up. Memberships/Affiliations: CERT, ARRL ARES, NRA Patron Member, HRC, CGN/CGSSA, Cal-FFL
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Old 01-07-2014, 2:18 PM
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Yup inevitable. They'll be another one or two in addition to another mandatory SA registration and/or ban (Son of SB374) regardless of anything written about here.

The only way to stop this is strict scrutiny on the 2nd Amendment. Keep at the very least but ideally both Keep and Bear.
This and/or putting fear into the politicians. Earlier in this thread it was suggested that we pool the money to hire PIs and get dirt on this and other enemies of ours in Sacramento. These people have no morals, they have no shame, they have no honesty, and no interest in actually improving something. So you cannot reason with them, you cannot shame them, and, in CA, you cannot unseat them through voting. So the only way to deal with them (short of outright surrender and hoping for the court (good luck with that)) is to make them fear for their job and their employability. Luckily, being the immoral and dishonest people that they are, I bet all of them have done enough illegal and/or immoral stuff.

Just today we get to watch another one of them, Lee Baca, crying on TV. Not for what he's done or what was done on his behalf, but for having been caught. The same fate should befall the rest of or they should be afraid of it anyway, and to know that there's one group you don't mess with. Otherwise... courts?

I think, it's past time to form a gun owners' Politician Watch PAC.
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"Thou shalt not interfere with the Second Amendment rights of "law-abiding" citizens who want AK-47s only to protect hearth and home." - Paul Helmke finally gets it :)
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Some people are so open minded, their brains have fallen out.


Selling a bunch of C&R and other rifles here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...php?p=20061212
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Old 01-07-2014, 2:21 PM
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Under attack
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Old 01-07-2014, 2:32 PM
1859sharps 1859sharps is offline
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You have to ask yourself, what is this compulsion that these politicians have for gun registration? What purpose does it serve? What scenario would need all legally possessed firearms to be serialized and registered?
it's easy "solutions" that only affect people who already follow the law. it allows them to say "I did something"....without actually doing anything. has the added bonus of "feeling" like there is now a process/protection, someone keeping tabs on "stuff".
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Old 01-07-2014, 2:47 PM
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The bill in the way it's written (provided it doesn't apply to fieldstripping or otherwise cleaning) is absolutely non-enforceable. I just need to make sure there are no manufacturer's mark on part, so I can clam the gun was built a decade ago.
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