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  #1  
Old 09-26-2017, 8:31 PM
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Default Minimum overall cartridge length 308 win

Finished a LR308 build. I think I have a overall length issue as I get light primer strikes, the trigger doesn't reset, or at times when i release the trigger to hear it reset I hear two clicks (seems the hammer is coming off it's sear on the front of the trigger).

Does anyone know if there's a minimum overall cartridge length on 308 Win? If not how do I safely find out what length to seat my handloads (they work fine in my M1A)? Im thinking to seat them further in by increments of 0.02" until I get reliable cycling. Right now they're all at +/- 0.01" of an overall length of 2.78."

Faxon 308 fluted match barrel
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2017, 8:39 PM
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What primers are u using? If using military primers I can see the drop in not wanting to fire them. I had issues with a chip drop in on my cmmg 308 with light primer strikes. Changed to standard trigger and fixed the problem
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Old 09-26-2017, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 9mmrevolver View Post
What primers are u using? If using military primers I can see the drop in not wanting to fire them. I had issues with a chip drop in on my cmmg 308 with light primer strikes. Changed to standard trigger and fixed the problem
Using CCI large rifle primers. What's a chip drop btw?
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Old 09-26-2017, 8:49 PM
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https://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...oaAqPIEALw_wcB
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Old 09-26-2017, 8:53 PM
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My Hornady book only has max COL at 2.810
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Old 09-26-2017, 8:54 PM
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Oh, lol
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Old 09-26-2017, 8:59 PM
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I put a lot of time and $$$ into this thing so I just wanted to see if the overall cartridge length was the issue. I just don't want to seat it too far in and have a catastrophic failure.

Like I said, they work fine in the M1A. I do notice expansion rings on the ejected brass (when it does pop off a round from the LR308) that look like stretch marks. If it's not fully seated I would presume the round isn't seated 100% but just enough to fire.

I'm also taking the M1A to the range this Sat to see if the same marks appear on the ejected brass from that rifle too or not.

Last edited by uncommonsense; 09-26-2017 at 9:01 PM..
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Old 09-26-2017, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 9mmrevolver View Post
My Hornady book only has max COL at 2.810
Yeah same with the Lyman 50th..
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  #9  
Old 09-26-2017, 9:26 PM
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Check your headspacing
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Old 09-26-2017, 9:36 PM
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OAL should not be an issue as long as it is not too long. Your problem could be headspacing. Do you reload? Have you checked to see if you're bumping the shoulder back too much? If you don't reload (or, even if you do), you should check to see if you're chamber is too deep. If your bolt closes on a no go gauge, that's probably your problem.
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Old 09-26-2017, 9:42 PM
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I would change the trigger first. For my lr308 i coal at 2.80
Whos lower are you using.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigedski View Post
Check your headspacing
The first thing I did after building it was take it to my local gun smith. He said the head spacing was fine. That's why I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to find the right bullet seating depth without playing Christopher Columbus. Lol

I've dry fired, racked it, hit the trigger reset, dry fired again, racked it, hit the trigger reset, about 6x. It resets fine. I'll try using factory ammo and see if that cycles first.

Last edited by uncommonsense; 09-26-2017 at 10:08 PM..
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:09 PM
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I would change the trigger first. For my lr308 i coal at 2.80
Whos lower are you using.
80percent Arms
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
OAL should not be an issue as long as it is not too long. Your problem could be headspacing. Do you reload? Have you checked to see if you're bumping the shoulder back too much? If you don't reload (or, even if you do), you should check to see if you're chamber is too deep. If your bolt closes on a no go gauge, that's probably your problem.
^^^ This! If you can fit you're rounds in a magazine it's most likely not an OAL issue. You need to make sure your bumping the shoulders back far enough when you resize your brass.

Or this could be an issue with whatever trigger setup you're using in your rifle.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
OAL should not be an issue as long as it is not too long. Your problem could be headspacing. Do you reload? Have you checked to see if you're bumping the shoulder back too much? If you don't reload (or, even if you do), you should check to see if you're chamber is too deep. If your bolt closes on a no go gauge, that's probably your problem.
Yeah I do reload. Used the Lee full length sizing die. I've since gotten a Dillon but haven't loaded 308 with it yet.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Paseclipse View Post
^^^ This! If you can fit you're rounds in a magazine it's most likely not an OAL issue. You need to make sure your bumping the shoulders back far enough when you resize your brass.

Or this could be an issue with whatever trigger setup you're using in your rifle.
Ok ill definitely look into the shoulders. I'll try some factory fresh rounds. Like I said before, my reloads work in my M1A but then again, we all know she's a dirty girl and she'll take anything you give her.
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by uncommonsense View Post
Ok ill definitely look into the shoulders. I'll try some factory fresh rounds. Like I said before, my reloads work in my M1A but then again, we all know she's a dirty girl and she'll take anything you give her.
Factory fresh rounds will help rule out of it's the trigger that's giving you problems or not.

An RCBS precision Mic (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/57...308-winchester) will help you figure out what your setting your case shoulders to during resizing and will give you an actual number to work with.

A case gauge is good tool too (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/88...308-winchester) but they don't give you an actual headspace number. They're good for doing quick checks on sized cases to make sure they fall within SAAMI specifications.
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Old 09-27-2017, 7:47 AM
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Trigger acting funny, light strikes, occasional failure to reset...sounds more like trigger issue. You had the chamber checked for excessive headspace. As someone else suggested, test with factory ammo to rule out handloads. It is possible to "over-resize" the cartridge and bump shoulder back too far, but usually not enough to cause your light primer strikes/FTF.
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Old 09-27-2017, 8:04 AM
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I've got two of the Elf triggers (the '308' model), and if they're set too light, the disconnector won't release the hammer, and as a result you get at least some of the oddness you've described. Try dialing the pull weight up a bit by turning the adjustment screw clockwise; typically just a tiny amount is what's needed.
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Old 10-04-2017, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bazineta View Post
I've got two of the Elf triggers (the '308' model), and if they're set too light, the disconnector won't release the hammer, and as a result you get at least some of the oddness you've described. Try dialing the pull weight up a bit by turning the adjustment screw clockwise; typically just a tiny amount is what's needed.
Will do. After a day at the range with my reloads, factory ammo, and my little Lee lap press I found it was the trigger group. I removed the upper and manually cocked the hammer, pulled the trigger, and simulated the re-cock. When I released to the reset, sure enough the hammer slipped to half clock position. I'll try the same after adjusting the trigger.
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Old 10-04-2017, 3:46 PM
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Thank you all so much for your help so far!!!!
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Old 10-04-2017, 6:35 PM
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The gun should fire the rounds without any bullet in the case at all so it's not a seating depth issue.
You should be able to take a primed case without powder or a bullet and drop it into the chamber and pop off the primer.

If you push the shoulder of the brass back too much you can get light strikes or fail to fire rounds. The shoulder sets the amount of wiggle from the bolts face to the chambers front not the bullet unless you are fully jammed. When you push the shoulder too much the only thing holding the case against the boltface is the extractor. If the shoulder is too far back the firing pins strike will force the case forward and give you light strikes.
If you don't push the shoulder back enough the rounds won't allow the bolt to close or will cause ejection issues if they stick in the chamber.
If factory ammo works your shoulders are most likely pushed to far.
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Old 10-04-2017, 6:42 PM
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OP, how do you figure that cartridge OAL is causing or affecing the problems you're experiencing?

Not a rhetorical question, I don't see the connection and just want to hear your reasoning.
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Old 10-05-2017, 7:13 AM
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What is the load you are feeding it?
I have an LR243 that does that on occasion when I use a really light load ... my SSA-E trigger will sometimes not reset .
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmykan View Post
OP, how do you figure that cartridge OAL is causing or affecing the problems you're experiencing?

Not a rhetorical question, I don't see the connection and just want to hear your reasoning.
Oh yeah I know man. I don't get butthurt about stuff online.

My reasoning was if the projectile was seated too far out, the projectile would stop on the lands/grooves of the barrel and prevent the rest of the cartridge from fully seating. I figured if this happened, the bolt would not fully rotate and lock, but rotate enough to where the bolt would be far enough back to have a light strike to where the pin wasn't causing contact with the primers anvil.

I think I went down the rabbit hole a little...

It's the trigger. I'm going to try what bazineta recommended a few comments back and adjust my trigger pull and see if that resolves it.

Thanks jimmykan!!
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by uncommonsense View Post
Oh yeah I know man. I don't get butthurt about stuff online.

My reasoning was if the projectile was seated too far out, the projectile would stop on the lands/grooves of the barrel and prevent the rest of the cartridge from fully seating. I figured if this happened, the bolt would not fully rotate and lock, but rotate enough to where the bolt would be far enough back to have a light strike to where the pin wasn't causing contact with the primers anvil.

I think I went down the rabbit hole a little...

It's the trigger. I'm going to try what bazineta recommended a few comments back and adjust my trigger pull and see if that resolves it.

Thanks jimmykan!!
Oh I see what you mean.

Here is a way to test whether that is the case:
  1. Load up a dummy round and seat the bullet to whatever OAL that you think this problem is occurring.
  2. Mark the entire exposed area of the bullet in black Sharpie marker.
  3. Chamber and extract the dummy round.
  4. If there are rifling marks wiped into the Sharpie ink on the bullet ogive, then the bullet is loaded long and is getting jammed into the rifling.
  5. If the OAL is shorter after chambering, then the bullet is jammed REALLY hard into the rifling.

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Old 10-05-2017, 2:44 PM
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Everyone here has you headed in the correct direction.

As to your bullet seating depth, You can buy a Sinclare chamber comparator. this will tell you distance to the lands from the rear of the case.
this way you can seat you bullets as close to or as far away from the lands as you like.
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrich View Post
What is the load you are feeding it?
I have an LR243 that does that on occasion when I use a really light load ... my SSA-E trigger will sometimes not reset .
Hornady 150gn FMJBT
44.7gn of IMR4064
PMC brass
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Loaded these one by one with a single stage LEE lap press. Hand measured powder for 1500+ rounds too. Think I got carpal tunnels from it. Lol So far they've all gone boom.
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Old 10-11-2017, 6:07 PM
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Looks like what Bazineta suggested might have done the trick. I'll have to test at the range to verify. Ill keep you all updated.

Thanks all!
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