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  #1  
Old 06-23-2018, 8:39 AM
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Default Can I get a Home Based 01FFL?

Hello all,

Not too long ago I figured out what I want to do with my future. I enjoy working with my hands, and I really enjoy working on firearms.

As I get closer to thinking about buying a house I would like to plan ahead and buy it in a county where I could start a home based business - gunsmithing. That would be the primary activity.

And I have a few questions:

1. Is it still possible to get a home based 01FFL?
2. My understanding is that I should move out of LA County for this. Is this correct?
3. I am currently thinking of moving to Ventura county for a few reasons. How do I research the zoning regulations?
4. Where do I start?

This is very important to me so I appreciate any help or direction I can get.

Thank you all in advance.
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2018, 8:56 AM
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Gunsmith is a code 07FFL and should be easier to get in California. For an 01FFL you'll need a business license from CA which is costly and they will want a physical location for your business. There's more regs to it, but 07 is the way to go if you want to be a hobby smith.
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Old 06-23-2018, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helpful_Cub View Post
Gunsmith is a code 07FFL and should be easier to get in California. For an 01FFL you'll need a business license from CA which is costly and they will want a physical location for your business. There's more regs to it, but 07 is the way to go if you want to be a hobby smith.
There are special laws pertaining to Licensed Manufacturers in CA like security, that will be worse than a 01.

Also, in order to receive shipments and use DES you will still need to be a CA Firearms Dealer and be on the centralized list, so the state requirements as far as business licences will be no different as far as I can tell.
But Im a 01 so maybe I am misunderstanding this.
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  #4  
Old 06-23-2018, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Helpful_Cub View Post
Gunsmith is a code 07FFL and should be easier to get in California. For an 01FFL you'll need a business license from CA which is costly and they will want a physical location for your business. There's more regs to it, but 07 is the way to go if you want to be a hobby smith.
An 07FFL is also a dealer with the ability to manufacture, which means additional issues. Business license and everything else would be needed.
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Old 06-23-2018, 9:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
...
And I have a few questions:

1. Is it still possible to get a home based 01FFL?
2. My understanding is that I should move out of LA County for this. Is this correct?
3. I am currently thinking of moving to Ventura county for a few reasons. How do I research the zoning regulations?
4. Where do I start?
1) Yes
2) Should? Yes, required no, but it is a lot harder as you need to find a city within the county which allows it. There are some or at least they used to.
3) Go to either city hall or the county business office of the locations that you are interested in. Sales tax is less in Ventura and there are many good reasons for buying there.
4) At the beginning.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2018, 10:32 AM
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From the limited research I have done, 01 covers gunsmithing and 07 covers everything 01 does but adds manufacturing.

I dont know if I would be manufacturing just yet or in the beginning. But I do know that I am not really interested in retailing though I believe i would have to engage in some transfers and sales (is it a requirement?).

Should I bother with FFL123.com?

To make things crystal clear, the thing I want to avoid is getting a house in a location where i wouldn't be able to pursue my dream.
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:44 AM
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None of the web sites deal with local issues. You can do it all yourself. You can be exempt as a gunsmith from transfers, but it is also more limiting. Doing transfers can get you more customers.
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2018, 11:15 AM
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And there is a sticky thread here - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=384995
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2018, 12:39 PM
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ahh, yes, I don't know how I missed that.
THank you sir.
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2018, 11:06 AM
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Be sure to clarify what the ATF determines is gunsmithing vs. manufacturing. Several activities that we might believe to be gunsmithing the ATF requires a manufacturers license. There's also going to be ITAR registration for most manufacturing of gun parts even if not exporting. Although the DDTC is proposing to remove most firearms and parts from requiring ITAR.

A good rule to determine 01 or 07 is "who owns the firearm?" If it's part of the dealer's inventory and you are "gunsmithing" then it's probably manufacturing according to ATF. If a customer brings it in do perform "gunsmithing" this is, most likely, gunsmithing.
Of course, there are exceptions. But it's a good general rule.

Feel free to PM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
From the limited research I have done, 01 covers gunsmithing and 07 covers everything 01 does but adds manufacturing.

I dont know if I would be manufacturing just yet or in the beginning. But I do know that I am not really interested in retailing though I believe i would have to engage in some transfers and sales (is it a requirement?).

Should I bother with FFL123.com?

To make things crystal clear, the thing I want to avoid is getting a house in a location where i wouldn't be able to pursue my dream.
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2018, 4:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
From the limited research I have done, 01 covers gunsmithing and 07 covers everything 01 does but adds manufacturing.

I dont know if I would be manufacturing just yet or in the beginning. But I do know that I am not really interested in retailing though I believe i would have to engage in some transfers and sales (is it a requirement?).

Should I bother with FFL123.com?

To make things crystal clear, the thing I want to avoid is getting a house in a location where i wouldn't be able to pursue my dream.
gunsmithing counts as business. the reason for the FFL is because you will/may need to hold firearms overnight.

There's no full on definition of "in the business" either...e.g, you can do a transfer a month for your buddies to fulfill that requirement. More important is having all the paperwork to show it's a business. E.g., your business license, resale tax id, etc..
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:25 PM
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I have done exactly what you are requesting twice in CA. Call me and we can go over the details.
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:45 PM
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Do it, I will be customer #1 !!! I have a BNIB Colt 1991 Govt you can go wild on.
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2018, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swell1957 View Post
Be sure to clarify what the ATF determines is gunsmithing vs. manufacturing. Several activities that we might believe to be gunsmithing the ATF requires a manufacturers license. There's also going to be ITAR registration for most manufacturing of gun parts even if not exporting. Although the DDTC is proposing to remove most firearms and parts from requiring ITAR.

A good rule to determine 01 or 07 is "who owns the firearm?" If it's part of the dealer's inventory and you are "gunsmithing" then it's probably manufacturing according to ATF. If a customer brings it in do perform "gunsmithing" this is, most likely, gunsmithing.
Of course, there are exceptions. But it's a good general rule.

Feel free to PM.
Thank you. I dont plan on making firearms to sell, only on order.

I can see a situation where someone wants me to build them a 1911 on a Caspian frame for example (this would be for an out of state customer). They would need to purchase the frame and send to me, instead of me purchasing the frame for them. This would qualify as smithing, correct?

If I was to buy the frame and then build a firearm for someone and have to transfer it to them via a sale I would be manufacturing, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
gunsmithing counts as business. the reason for the FFL is because you will/may need to hold firearms overnight.

There's no full on definition of "in the business" either...e.g, you can do a transfer a month for your buddies to fulfill that requirement. More important is having all the paperwork to show it's a business. E.g., your business license, resale tax id, etc..
Makes sense. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
I have done exactly what you are requesting twice in CA. Call me and we can go over the details.
Responded to your message. Will definitely call you tomorrow at the time that works for you. Thank you in advance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Do it, I will be customer #1 !!! I have a BNIB Colt 1991 Govt you can go wild on.
That is the plan. Nothing else I want to do in my future more than this.
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:51 AM
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Do it, I will be customer #1 !!! I have a BNIB Colt 1991 Govt you can go wild on.
Beat me too it!

I have watched with fascination, and a bit of jealousy, the threads you have posted on your personal projects.

I'm in!
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:54 AM
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I know that it's definitely possible because one of the FFL01 I use for transferring firearms is home based - he conducts all his business in his garage at home.
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:57 AM
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Beat me too it!

I have watched with fascination, and a bit of jealousy, the threads you have posted on your personal projects.

I'm in!
The more the merrier!
And thank you and SkyHawk for this compliment.
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Old 06-25-2018, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKsan View Post
I know that it's definitely possible because one of the FFL01 I use for transferring firearms is home based - he conducts all his business in his garage at home.
I figured. And now it is clear that I have to research the location that will allow this type of business from a residence.

What city is the home based FFL in?
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Old 06-25-2018, 1:02 AM
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I figured. And now it is clear that I have to research the location that will allow this type of business from a residence.



What city is the home based FFL in?


Fair Oaks in Sac County


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Old 06-25-2018, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
I figured. And now it is clear that I have to research the location that will allow this type of business from a residence.

What city is the home based FFL in?
Make sure you also check the regulations from whoever owns your residence, if you don't own it. I ran into that issue before when I was trying to get my FFL and I lived in an apartment.
Specifically, the "open to the public" aspect of the ATF regs. When I had the field interview, the ATF agents told me they've run into issues of HOAs that wanted to pre-screen individuals coming to the residence for business, any a bunch of similar things.
The ATF will check zoning and other applicable location issues, so it would be a good idea to do all that yourself first, and to have copies of any applicable paperwork like zoning ordinances.
As previously mentioned in this thread, there are other issues to deal with if you get an 07, like ITAR and certain reporting requirements. Based on my conversations with ATF, an 01 could be adequate for gunsmithing, and the ATF technology branch seems to be able to answer questions about differentiating between gunsmithing and manufacturing.

Last edited by rugershooter; 06-25-2018 at 10:50 AM..
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  #21  
Old 06-25-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rugershooter View Post
Make sure you also check the regulations from whoever owns your residence, if you don't own it. I ran into that issue before when I was trying to get my FFL and I lived in an apartment.
Specifically, the "open to the public" aspect of the ATF regs. When I had the field interview, the ATF agents told me they've run into issues of HOAs that wanted to pre-screen individuals coming to the residence for business, any a bunch of similar things.
The ATF will check zoning and other applicable location issues, so it would be a good idea to do all that yourself first, and to have copies of any applicable paperwork like zoning ordinances.
As previously mentioned in this thread, there are other issues to deal with if you get an 07, like ITAR and certain reporting requirements. Based on my conversations with ATF, an 01 could be adequate for gunsmithing, and the ATF technology branch seems to be able to answer questions about differentiating between gunsmithing and manufacturing.
Thank you for the info.
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  #22  
Old 07-07-2018, 1:01 AM
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Quite some time ago my retired bud did just that. 01 in a residence within the city limits. The city was the most expensive part of it for the licensing. It was enough for him to realize that the cost and foot traffic was more than he cared for. It's a tough hobby to make a profit without some decent capital, and more importantly connections. Like selling restored cars. Good luck, you do good work. PAX
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