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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 10-27-2017, 5:48 PM
digelectric digelectric is offline
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Yes I agree with the points re: I&S. I would rather see two shops in SC than none. I donít think Iíd shop at Turners much because I support local whenever I can. Itís more likely Iíll shop at Reeds, City Arms, Gun Vault, Targetmasters, or Jackson, though.
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  #42  
Old 10-27-2017, 5:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiCaliber View Post
Turner's regular prices aren't awesome, but their sales can enable the grabbing of some extra stuff. Also the selection is generally pretty good. The small business folks will have to emphasize customer service to compete.
Two issues are whether I & S can adjust, find whatever their niche may be, and whether the increased foot traffic to Turners drifts off to I & S - or does it take foot traffic from that smaller store. From a business point of view, if I owned the smaller store, I'd work hard to stay in business and eventually be bought out by that larger store. The folks who own I & S aren't exactly teenagers.
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  #43  
Old 10-27-2017, 5:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digelectric View Post
Yes I agree with the points re: I&S. I would rather see two shops in SC than none. I donít think Iíd shop at Turners much because I support local whenever I can. Itís more likely Iíll shop at Reeds, City Arms, Gun Vault, Targetmasters, or Jackson, though.
Gun Vault and Reeds is a good example - I can't imagine Turners matching the creative stuff at BAGV, the used handguns, off roster handguns. Is Turners going to have some C & R stuff where I can do "cash & carry" like I did at BAGV? Or when I ask "so, any good stuff waiting out back?" out comes a 29-2 in presentation case - Turners would be mom & popish enough to do that? I don't think so. And remember when Reeds used to carry used guns and alot of reloading equipment? I bought an early, non-import, not rearseneled M1 carbine from their gunsmith, bought a T/C Encore pistol frame with no barrel too - is Turners going to do that for me?

I'm sure it would be a challenge, but the net result can be more $$$ for the sellers and more product, more participants in shooting.
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  #44  
Old 10-27-2017, 6:01 PM
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I donít mind paying more for a better or more tailored service.
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  #45  
Old 10-27-2017, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gunrus View Post
You could see the council meeting here

http://sancarlosca.iqm2.com/Citizens...&Format=Agenda
Thank you for the link. I've lived in San Carlos for just over 20 years, and never attended a council meeting. It looks like the discussion has indeed been added to the agenda for November. I may reconsider my decision and actually show up and speak. I'll send my written views to the council reviews as regardless, but showing up may be even more important.

Not to be repetitive, but to me this is not so much about Turner's, and much more about this idea that "guns, and gun stores = bad things."

I was especially irked by a fellow citizen who mentioned that a gun shop was opening that could sell California-compliant AR rifles with "as we all know, no background checks . . . people with a history of crime, domestic abuse . . . and even people on no fly lists can purchase a gun."


EDIT: Corrected grammar issues in my post -- additions underlined and deletions show as strikethrough text.

Additional substantive edit to an earlier post: Imbert & Smithers is not a defendant in a case brought by Kamala Harris re the PC code section I cited earlier; rather, I&S were cited and / or warned of facing prosecution by DOJ and, under that threat of prosecution or citation, obscured their sign that constitutes an advertisement that could run afoul of PC 26820. I&S, and others, are plaintiffs in the case, asserting that PC 26820 is unconstitutional on first amendment grounds.

Last edited by Cortelli; 10-27-2017 at 7:14 PM..
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  #46  
Old 10-27-2017, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Turners is a megastore and the largest single contributor to the NRA nationally. At a recent dinner I heard from some local small gun store owners, and they were afraid this would negatively effect their business.
Where do you hear that Turners is #1 NRA donor? To the best of my knowledge, MidwayUSA is #1. I have never even heard Turners mentioned near the top.

Turner's bills itself as the '#1 NRA retail recruiter'. And according to the NRA, they were last year - by far: https://recruiting.nra.org/newslette.../nov-dec-2016/

And also probably #1 in 2015, and some prior years. But as admirable as that is, Turner's only accounts for about 5% of the total number of new members signed up by NRA recruiters annually. 95% of annual recruitments come from recruiters other than Turner's.

But the #1 recruiter is not the #1 contributor. The premiere NRA donor recognition program is the Ring of Freedom. Alone at the top, at the Harlon Carter level, is MidwayUSA, last I checked.

Others at the top levels, include but are not limited to Benelli, Beretta, Cabelas, Ruger, Springfield, S&W...
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 10-27-2017 at 6:50 PM..
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  #47  
Old 10-27-2017, 6:23 PM
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I checked the Turners website and it says they open in "late November 2017" on Industrial. Unless something unforseen happens it would seem things will move forward.
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  #48  
Old 10-27-2017, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
I checked the Turners website and it says they open in "late November 2017" on Industrial. Unless something unforseen happens it would seem things will move forward.
I posted over in "General Gun Discussions" back on Oct 13 that I had driven by the space -- at that time there was a crew of at least 4 guys (could have been more) I could see busy remodeling, etc. I have to believe that Turners got all the permits / approvals they needed. Stopping them now would seem to invite a lawsuit.

I am more concerned that SC city council will try and issue a forward-looking moratorium on any business that might sell firearms in the future. And / or a "moratorium" that could be read to include changes / remodels, etc. I'd hate to see SC totally foreclose any sporting goods / outdoors / or even pure gun shop in the future, including rebuilds or relocations. If REI decided to close up shop, I'd hope it might be attractive to another sporting goods / outdoor shop (Bass Pro, Cabela's, etc.)

As another example, with the passage of SB464 (and future iterations), what if I&S or Turner's needed to provide concrete / steel pillars outside the shop as an additional security feature, but SC (or any other locality) refused permits to install such items, and refused to issue a permit to relocate to a new location that met security standards?

I don't think any good can come from considering things like moratoriums, etc.
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  #49  
Old 10-27-2017, 7:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Cortelli View Post
Thank you for the link. I've lived in San Carlos for just over 20 years, and never attended a council meeting. It looks like the discussion has indeed been added to the agenda for November. I may reconsider my decision and actually show up and speak. I'll send my written views to the council reviews as regardless, but showing up may be even more important.

Not to be repetitive, but to me this is not so much about Turner's, and much more about this idea that "guns, and gun stores = bad things."

I was especially irked by a fellow citizen who mentioned that a gun shop was opening that could sell California-compliant AR rifles with "as we all know, no background checks . . . people with a history of crime, domestic abuse . . . and even people on no fly lists can purchase a gun."

[EDIT:[/b] Corrected my post -- additions underlined and deletions strickthrough text. Additional Edit to an earlier post -- Imbert & Smithers is not a defendant in a case brought by Kamala Harris re the PC code section I cited earlier; rather, I&S were cited and / or warned of facing prosecution by DOJ and, under that threat of prosecution or citation, obscured their sign that constitutes an advertisement that could run afoul of PC 26820. I&S, and others, are plaintiffs in the case, asserting that PC 26820 is unconstitutional on first amendment grounds.



EDIT: Corrected grammar issues in my post -- additions underlined and deletions show as strikethrough text.

Additional substantive edit to an earlier post: Imbert & Smithers is not a defendant in a case brought by Kamala Harris re the PC code section I cited earlier; rather, I&S were cited and / or warned of facing prosecution by DOJ and, under that threat of prosecution or citation, obscured their sign that constitutes an advertisement that could run afoul of PC 26820. I&S, and others, are plaintiffs in the case, asserting that PC 26820 is unconstitutional on first amendment grounds.
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  #50  
Old 10-28-2017, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
What you're suggesting is to compete that gun store, or any other gun store in that same situation, might have to .... improve, step up its customer service, diversify. Or plain old not treat people like crap? That sounds like the good old American way of getting things done.

I remember when ACE Hardware opened across the street from Brownies in SF, a local hardware store. Brownies retooled, so to speak, pumped up its customer service & tweaked its inventory, pricing - ACE is gone, Brownies is still there and in a larger store.
Belmont Hardware is imo a great example of success in their field.
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  #51  
Old 10-28-2017, 9:46 AM
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Default antis in San Carlos (San Mateo Co.) trying to stop gun store

Turners as a gun store has its pluses and minuses. They have a wide selection of inventory on display. Their everyday pricing is the same as just about everyone else. Their sales prices are hard to beat. Many of the counter clerks are clueless. Their DROS process takes forever. Easily on hour during non peak hours. Pick up can be almost as bad. Forget doing PPT there.


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  #52  
Old 10-28-2017, 11:06 AM
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Letter to Editor

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/opinio...186aa962b.html

http://www.smdailyjournal.com/opinio...1752f633c.html
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  #53  
Old 10-28-2017, 5:07 PM
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Turners should be supported along with Imbert and Smithers. Imbert and Smithers has an in-house gunsmith. I think both stores will benefit, as do we as gun owners.
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  #54  
Old 10-30-2017, 2:33 PM
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Response from one of the City Council members to me. Its clearly a form letter optimized for the antis who wrote to her. She says the laws don't require a special approval and now they want to create such a policy days before Turners is set to open. I suspect the NRA attorneys and others will descend here and well they should. Turners has spent plenty of money on this and complied with all current laws:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your e-mail, and sorry for my late reply.

Under current city zoning laws, which date back several decades, special permits are not needed to open up a new gun shop in San Carlos.

However, as word spread throughout our community that a new gun shop had obtained a lease, it became clear to me that many residents would like to revisit these regulations.

While gun control is within the purview of state and federal law, the City of San Carlos does have authority to regulate what types of businesses may operate within our community. In recent years, for example, we have implemented regulations to control the number of chain stores on Laurel street, and to prohibit marijuana dispensaries.

Therefore, it is a legitimate request to ask the City Council to consider changing the regulations regarding gun shops.

Thatís why, at last Monday nightís Council meeting, I joined several of my colleagues in asking for a temporary moratorium on new gun shops to be placed the November 13th City Council meeting agenda.

If passed, this moratorium would temporarily prohibit new gun shops from opening up, including the proposed Turnerís Outdoorsman store. This will allow time for the community and City Council to determine if we should make changes to our current regulations.

I hope this information has been helpful. Thank you for contacting me on this important issue.

Cameron Johnson
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  #55  
Old 10-30-2017, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by familyfarm View Post
Its clearly a form letter optimized for the antis who wrote to her
Try to set up a meeting in person with your council member. If they are democrat, always claim you vote democrat, or they will not take you seriously.

Politicians always lie. Lying back to them is your duty as a citizen.
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  #56  
Old 10-30-2017, 8:00 PM
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I got same libtard response sounds like a lawsuit from turners maybe coming up.
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  #57  
Old 10-30-2017, 8:19 PM
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Texiera v Alameda is stalled in the 9th. (Similar situation about zoning.)

Until we break 9th's hold (circuit split on an issue) or send back from Supremes to reconsider on struct scrutiny etc. this is gonna be a problem.

Note how family planning/abortion clinics have all sorts of concern about distance from clients, etc. from an inferred right.

Funny that a direct right (2A) can't have same level of protection.
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  #58  
Old 10-30-2017, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post

Note how family planning/abortion clinics have all sorts of concern about distance from clients, etc. from an inferred right.

Funny that a direct right (2A) can't have same level of protection.
Maybe you are onto something there. Perhaps the SC City Council would approve if Turners added one of those clinics - with a discrete separate entrance so that the firearms will not scare the unborn children.
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  #59  
Old 11-01-2017, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by familyfarm View Post
Response from one of the City Council members to me. Its clearly a form letter optimized for the antis who wrote to him. He says the laws don't require a special approval and now they want to create such a policy days before Turners is set to open. I suspect the NRA attorneys and others will descend here and well they should. Turners has spent plenty of money on this and complied with all current laws:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your e-mail, and sorry for my late reply.

Under current city zoning laws, which date back several decades, special permits are not needed to open up a new gun shop in San Carlos.

However, as word spread throughout our community that a new gun shop had obtained a lease, it became clear to me that many residents would like to revisit these regulations.

While gun control is within the purview of state and federal law, the City of San Carlos does have authority to regulate what types of businesses may operate within our community. In recent years, for example, we have implemented regulations to control the number of chain stores on Laurel street, and to prohibit marijuana dispensaries.

Therefore, it is a legitimate request to ask the City Council to consider changing the regulations regarding gun shops.

That’s why, at last Monday night’s Council meeting, I joined several of my colleagues in asking for a temporary moratorium on new gun shops to be placed the November 13th City Council meeting agenda.

If passed, this moratorium would temporarily prohibit new gun shops from opening up, including the proposed Turner’s Outdoorsman store. This will allow time for the community and City Council to determine if we should make changes to our current regulations.

I hope this information has been helpful. Thank you for contacting me on this important issue.

Cameron Johnson
This smacks of a fix being in the works. Having ample opportunity to require a special use permit for opening a gun store the city did nothing - until a gun store obtained a lease in the city.

Clearly this elected official's mind is already made up. Mr. Johnson has decided to employ a temporary ban, which he euphemistically calls a "moratorium", while a permanent ban is crafted.

How to contact the City Council is attached below:

http://www.cityofsancarlos.org/depts...il/default.asp

Last edited by dfletcher; 11-01-2017 at 6:14 PM..
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  #60  
Old 11-01-2017, 6:20 PM
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The asian girl in the gi sounds rational and the dark fat girl sounds like an idiot
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  #61  
Old 11-03-2017, 5:19 PM
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CRPA has put out an alert explaining what is going on here and how to help: http://crpa.org/san-carlos-city-coun...store-opening/
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  #62  
Old 11-03-2017, 6:00 PM
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I wonder if municipalities that are going this route might be ripe for predatory lawsuits brought on by the gun industry. Might they be a source of revenue for aggressive attorneys willing to mine this potential field? I'm trying to think creatively on possible wealth extraction from deep pockets here.
Turnabout is fair play; if the goal turns to bleeding them dry, the side effects might be beneficial to us in the long run.
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  #63  
Old 11-03-2017, 8:31 PM
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Turnes has policy to keep deposit if buyer gets denied. Many people got burned by that during Camala regime. Cheap profits during glory times of gun stores.

No love for turners here.
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  #64  
Old 11-03-2017, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hillgoat View Post
Turnes has policy to keep deposit if buyer gets denied. Many people got burned by that during Camala regime. Cheap profits during glory times of gun stores.

No love for turners here.
easy, just pay the deposit by CC, then chargeback.

your CC would take your side easily.
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  #65  
Old 11-03-2017, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Turners is a megastore and the largest single contributor to the NRA nationally. At a recent dinner I heard from some local small gun store owners, and they were afraid this would negatively effect their business.
More like it would negatively affect the City's overall customer service
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  #66  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:17 AM
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Tonight is the meeting 11/13 @7pm.
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  #67  
Old 11-13-2017, 8:37 AM
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Who was that idiot on KTVU just now saying she'd be okay with it if they do the proper background checks and, if you hunt you don't need a "different" gun?
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  #68  
Old 11-13-2017, 9:23 AM
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"Think of the children". YES teach them to shoot too!
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  #69  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:11 AM
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Anyone that can should call, fax, or email the City Council to oppose the proposed moratorium, and attend tonight's meeting if possible. I posted this in another thread already, but in case any of you missed it:


NRA and CRPA Attorneys Submit Join-Opposition Letter to Proposed Moratorium on Firearm Dealers for City of San Carlos


As we reported earlier this month, the San Carlos City Council will soon be considering a proposed moratorium on firearm retailers. The proposed moratorium is a result of several anti-gun residents opposing a new Turnerís Outdoorsman store that had a planned to open at the end of the month. If enacted, the moratorium would prohibit Turnerís Outdoorsman and any other California licensed firearms dealer from opening a business in the City of San Carlos for a period of 45 days while the City considers implementing a more restrictive zoning ordinance.

In response, NRA and CRPA attorneys have submitted a comprehensive joint-opposition letter to the proposed moratorium. The letter highlights the numerous complex and comprehensive requirements for becoming a California licensed firearms dealer, as well as all of the security, record keeping, and transfer requirements that all dealers, including Turnerís Outdoorsman, must abide by when operating a firearm retail business here in California.

The letter also discusses how Turnerís Outdoorsman invested over $118,000 in development of the proposed San Carlos location only after it sought approval from the Cityís planning manager, staff, and Chief of Policeóall of whom gave their approval. Nevertheless, the City is now taking the position that the proposed Turnerís Outdoorsman will somehow be detrimental to the public peace, health, welfare, and safety of San Carlos residentsódespite providing a safe and legal manner in which residents can sell or transfer their firearms.

The City Council is expected to hold a public meeting regarding the proposed moratorium on Monday, November 13, at 7:00 PM in Council Chambers, located at 600 Elm Street, San Carlos, CA 94070. We encourage all of our members who are able to attend to voice their opposition. Representatives from Turnerís Outdoorsman will also be in attendance.

In the meantime, we also encourage all of our members who are able to call, fax, or email the City Council to oppose the adoption of the moratorium. You can do so using the following information:


San Carlos City Council
600 Elm Street
San Carlos, CA 94070
cityclerk@cityofsancarlos.org
Fax: (650) 595-6719

Mayor Bob Grassilli Ė bgrassilli@cityofsancarlos.org
Vice Mayor Matt Grocott Ė mgrocott@cityofsancarlos.org
Councilmember Cameron Johnson Ė cjohnson@cityofsancarlos.org
Councilmember Mark Olbert Ė molbert@cityofsancarlos.org
Councilmember Ron Collins Ė rcollins@cityofsancarlos.org
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  #70  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:13 AM
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This needs to stop. The CRPA and NRA are fighting against this.
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  #71  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:29 AM
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Ask the owner of Setter Arms how this all plays out. NIMBY.
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  #72  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryck@EXATactical View Post
typical liberals... they probably smoke weed thats why it's okay for them to have a dispensary a mile away from downtown but they hate guns so it's not okay for them to have a gun store.
typeical "i don't like it so you can't have it" mindset.
Buh buh think think of the children, brah. Weed is a medicinal herb given to man by the goddess Mother Earth, to help solve world problems. Guns were created by the Evil Man Devil to destroy mankind and woman kind.
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Old 11-13-2017, 5:24 PM
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This smacks of a fix being in the works. Having ample opportunity to require a special use permit for opening a gun store the city did nothing - until a gun store obtained a lease in the city.

Clearly this elected official's mind is already made up. Mr. Johnson has decided to employ a temporary ban, which he euphemistically calls a "moratorium", while a permanent ban is crafted.

How to contact the City Council is attached below:

http://www.cityofsancarlos.org/depts...il/default.asp
It is the same exact thing that they did with people subdividing double lots in San Carlos. We had a client pay top dollar on a property after we specifically went to talk to the Planning Department about their plans, they said it was all find. Two weeks later a "moratorium" on subdivisions so that they could study the issue. I am not aware of anything happening in the year since the purchase.

There is no one keeping these people honest and it is a shame, San Carlos was a great place to grow up but now I hardly recognize it.
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Old 11-13-2017, 5:30 PM
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It is the same exact thing that they did with people subdividing double lots in San Carlos. We had a client pay top dollar on a property after we specifically went to talk to the Planning Department about their plans, they said it was all find. Two weeks later a "moratorium" on subdivisions so that they could study the issue. I am not aware of anything happening in the year since the purchase.

There is no one keeping these people honest and it is a shame, San Carlos was a great place to grow up but now I hardly recognize it.
Same thing has happened to Palo Alto. The city council is bought and paid for by the developers.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:55 PM
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Of course it just passed for the moratorium. Time for the lawsuit to drop. The one city council person that opposed it was very well spoken. He even found out these things can last 2 years for their "more research" to be completed...
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Last edited by djbooya; 11-13-2017 at 10:56 PM.. Reason: added more
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:53 PM
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These very same idiots that are all for banning online ammo sales, won't even let you buy ammo in person, because they want to run the stores out of their cities and probably the state, if they could. Yea, keep telling yourself we can find a compromise...
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fn2187 View Post



Plus if it gives some competition to overpriced "only game in town" Imbert and Smithers, so much the better.

I agree. I shop at Imbert and itís hopefully an eye opener for them to keep their prices honest.

Personally, Iím more a fan of their used/consignment case.



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Old 11-14-2017, 1:30 PM
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BTW: if you were there or watched the video - I would suggest writing words of appreciation to Vice Mayor Matt Grocott if you think he did a good job standing up to the bullies. I did and feel better knowing I support him even though I am not a constituent and cannot help him retain his job directly.
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Old 11-14-2017, 3:11 PM
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I contacted each council member before the meeting but could not attend in person. I was able to catch a chunk of the public comment towards the end via webcast.

I have already traded messages with one of the council members post-vote (he had responded graciously, indicating his difference of opinion).

I think the next step is to politely, and straightforwardly ask the council members to carefully consider what potential regulations might mean for the city, and what might be appropriate.

It's my view (likely not shared by a majority of fellow residents) that a total ban would not reflect well on the city or its residents. Zoning is an inherently local matter, subject to the local desires generally, and I can understand zoning restrictions that prohibit firearms stores in specific locations (the city already zoned away big box / chain stores on its main downtown street).

The challenge, it seems, is I can't imagine too many other locations in SC that would be amenable to the citizens who have already spoken en masse if the current Turner's location is deemed unacceptable. If I try really hard, I might imagine a spot or two, but not likely one that would be attractive to any sort of chain like Turner's.

It looks to me like an actual or as-applied-effective ban is very likely the outcome. It's a shame, because San Carlos is a great town, and a lot of the comments I saw (and I didn't see them all) from fellow residents seemed to me to be fairly characterized as "it's our community and we'll decide who gets to come here and who doesn't" which has some really ugly precedents, and some really ugly intellectual underpinnings.
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Old 11-14-2017, 3:32 PM
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I watched most of it last night and was amazed by the fact there most be 300 pediatricians working in San Carlos. The other interesting observation was there were a lot of people who "moved to San Carlos to raise our children". The women speakers outnumbered the men.
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