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Calgunners in Service This forum is a place for our active duty and deployed members to share, request and have a bit of home where ever they are.

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  #1  
Old 11-13-2017, 2:27 PM
F4E Phantom F4E Phantom is offline
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Default Son wants to join Navy, question regarding contacts

My 17yo son is a senior in HS. He wants to graduates and leave for Naval boot camp.
But his mom is a devout Jehovah Witness. They are anti joining military. So she won't sign. My son will turn 18 this February. The recruiter said it is better opportunities for the HS seniors. Anyone 18 and older has more competition for the technical schools. My question is can my son have a contract where he joins and gets to go to the school of his choice. If not, he can get out?
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Old 11-13-2017, 2:36 PM
Woodythedog Woodythedog is offline
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I think once they have you....they have you.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2017, 2:39 PM
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Recruiters lie!
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:14 PM
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Yeah, recruiters are full of it. They get paid by how many bodies they bring in.
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2017, 4:01 PM
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Default Son wants to join Navy, question regarding contacts

First, do the test at the recruiters office, it's a mini asvab. Then he can get an idea what he qualifies for. He cannot go to MEPS absent parents signature if under 18, if he goes to MEPS that is where they will do the offer of actual jobs available and he qualifies for. They will pressure him to sign for 'something' while there and say they can change it later, I told my sons recruiter that if MEPS doesn't offer what he wants he don't be signing anything, they tried to say well if he don't sign there's no guarantee blah blah blah, I told them well unless you want to make a second trip with him you better be talking to your contacts up there before he goes and have them hold his preference for him, the head recruiter called me later and said all set. my son got exactly what he wanted when he went to MEPS
The recruiter knew once I talked to him and the head guy that my son would not be pressured in to anything


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Old 11-14-2017, 5:55 AM
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Absolutely DO NOT buy the 'he can get a school once he gets to the fleet' line from the recruiter. If he gets in without a GUARANTEED school he'll be sent to the fleet as a non designated airman/fireman/seaman and treated like an absolute dog (I saw what they did to non designated airmen on a carrier, they end up getting worked to death on the flight deck [cat crews, recovery teams, etc). Sometimes they will 'group' schools together (in my case it was aviation electronics [AT, AQ, AX, AE, TD {yes it WAS a long time ago}) and I went to AE school out of boot camp. But if he fails out of the school he'll be sent to the fleet as a non designated airman/fireman/seaman so you GOTTA study, no time to play then, there will be plenty of time for that later. So, no school IN THE CONTRACT (yes it will be CLEARLY spelled out in the contract) no sign. (I was an Aviation Electrician 1976-1982 working in AIMD [Aviation Intermediate Maint.] on E-2's, A-6's, EA-6B's at NAS Miramar and the USS Independence] Oh yeah, they were going to do that 'once you get to the fleet nonsense but I came to my senses during the ride to the induction center, boy was the recruiter mad...best thing I ever did [related to the military]...
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Old 11-14-2017, 6:02 AM
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Tell him to go Coast Guard. Life is much better. Save lives, please Navy wives, do law enforcement, anti terrorism, counter drug/piracy/smuggling. It's a much more relaxed culture. You are family instead of just another worker bee.
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Old 11-14-2017, 8:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cal3gunner View Post
Tell him to go Coast Guard. Life is much better. Save lives, please Navy wives, do law enforcement, anti terrorism, counter drug/piracy/smuggling. It's a much more relaxed culture. You are family instead of just another worker bee.
^^^^THIS^^^^

Spoken from experience.

The Coast Guard is much harder to get into than the Navy, and for good reason.

CG recruiters have quotas just like Navy recruiters, but the quota works differently. The Navy guy has to bring in at least as many recruits as his quota requires. The CG recruiter is limited by his quota. For that reason don't expect the CG recruiter to shower you with interest. It ain't gonna happen. You've got to convince the recruiter that you're worth their time.

I'm not going to go so far as to say that Navy recruiters actively lie, but they have been known to present a plethora of "alternative facts."

Life in any service (including the CG) as a non-rate is a "bottom of the food chain" experience. It's an apprenticeship like any other. Once you earn a rating, you're one step off the bottom. A guaranteed "A" school is the fastest way to get there. The down side is that you've got to be sure of your choice. Lateral changes in rating are difficult.

My advice:

1) If you know what rating you want - Get the guaranteed "A" school.

2) If you don't know what rating you want, and are serious about joining - Then join, do your messcook duty and use the time to wisely choose your rating.

3) If you don't know what rating you want, and are just considering joining - Don't sign anything until you figure it out.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by F4E Phantom View Post
My 17yo son is a senior in HS. He wants to graduates and leave for Naval boot camp.
But his mom is a devout Jehovah Witness. They are anti joining military. So she won't sign. My son will turn 18 this February. The recruiter said it is better opportunities for the HS seniors. Anyone 18 and older has more competition for the technical schools. My question is can my son have a contract where he joins and gets to go to the school of his choice. If not, he can get out?
His age shouldn't matter. What matters is his ASVAB score. Also have him get everything in writing. If it's not in the contract, it doesn't exist. Mostly importantly, make sure he knows to not go in without a contract for a rate (job). If he goes in "un-designated", he'll get all the crappy jobs and it's harder to get a school, but the recruiters will tell people that its good because they can try all the rates and see what they like. Don't fall for it.
If he's not super set on the Navy, I'd also have him look at the Coast Guard. I was a Gunner's Mate in the Navy and aside from being and EOD armorer for a while, life on the ship was mostly boring and we were constantly underway. Out of my 4 years in, I think I ended up doing a cumulative 3 years out at sea. If I had to do it over, I probably would've gone CG, especially with their Maritime Law Enforcement rate.

Last edited by rugershooter; 11-14-2017 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:37 AM
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If his asvab is high enough let him request submarine duty as a weapons / electronics type.
A lot of pride with the hard work. Good advancement.
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2017, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by F4E Phantom View Post
My 17yo son is a senior in HS. He wants to graduates and leave for Naval boot camp.
But his mom is a devout Jehovah Witness. They are anti joining military. So she won't sign. My son will turn 18 this February. The recruiter said it is better opportunities for the HS seniors. Anyone 18 and older has more competition for the technical schools. My question is can my son have a contract where he joins and gets to go to the school of his choice. If not, he can get out?
Tell him to try to get into the Annapolis Naval academy. Then he can go in as an officer and possibly end up in naval aviation.
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Old 11-14-2017, 6:00 PM
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Thanks guys, Calgunners are the best. Unfortunately he is not academy material. He surprised me when he wanted pursue an electrical trade. A friends dad works for PG &E. My advice was to absolute ace the asvab test.
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Old 11-14-2017, 6:13 PM
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My advice is also the coast guard. Spent 8 years and it is a much different experience. I deployed on navy vessels and it is very different. Iam now a noon electrician so if he wants to join the trades i that should be supported for his mother’s sake.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:23 PM
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As others have said, make sure it says "electrician" on the dotted line.
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:36 PM
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Not sure about Navy reserves and how much training he will get as a reservist. A friend of a friend was telling me how he went to boot camp, received training, and did the once a month/two weeks a year commitment. I think they helped him with school costs. He got a taste of military life, received training and earned some money - without a an active four year commitment.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by F4E Phantom View Post
Thanks guys, Calgunners are the best. Unfortunately he is not academy material. He surprised me when he wanted pursue an electrical trade. A friends dad works for PG &E. My advice was to absolute ace the asvab test.
I also work for PG&E. Was in the NAVY from 2/99 to 4/07. I was a Nuke Electronics Technician (operate nuclear reactors). Got a job with PG&E after that and make really good money. The thing about the NAVY vs other branches is that there are jobs in the NAVY that you can take to the civilian sector and make a lot of money. I have no college degree and make more than most all of my friends whom have STEM degrees. My advice to him would be to go and take the ASVAB. If he scores high it will open up a lot of doors for him. But, do not commit to any rate until after he gets his test results back. And when he does choose his rate, it would be wise to choose one that has skills you can take to the civilian side of life. Most of these technical rates offer a signing bonus as well. "Choose your rate, choose your fate!"
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Old 11-21-2017, 2:07 PM
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Make the recruiter guaranty a school based on his test score before he goes to MEPS.

Tell the recruiter that you will go to another recruiter if he won't do it. It's like telling a car dealer that you're going to the dealership in the next town.
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Old 11-21-2017, 3:13 PM
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Another electronics contract they have out there says AV. AV is not the actual rate, it means at their discretion they can make you an AE or AT. Either one is pretty useful after you get out and become a civillian again. I joined at 22 so I can't verify anything about joining at a younger age.

Is he considering a career in the Navy? Or just 4 (or 5) and out? I don't recommend a full career in the Navy these days. Long story short, promotion is limited using quotas (which varies in each rate.) Some are as low as 10% (meaning only 10% who take the advancement exam for that rate get to advance.) Sometimes if you don't advance quickly enough they deny your ability to re-enlist. I've also seen people get kicked out due to a program called PTS (perform to serve), basically a raffle which allows people to re-enlist or not. It's supposed to be based on Evals, but ive seen a lot of good sailors get kicked out who had excellent evals.
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Old 11-21-2017, 3:58 PM
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Go Navy vs. Coast Guard IMO from what I read above.

And correct me if I am wrong, but with the navy and marines, you "can" choose a school, but not guaranteed. Its all based on need of the services and your asvab / entry score.

If things have changed, GET IT IN WRITING!

I joined the Army back in 2001 and had the choice of duty station and MOS. But, thats the Army. I was also given schools of choice - go airborne after boot, go air assault after that and then report to duty station. I ensured this was all in my entry packet when I signed the dotted line. My MOS was combat arms, so I think they just wanted heart beats .
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Old 11-21-2017, 4:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal3gunner View Post
Tell him to go Coast Guard. Life is much better. Save lives, please Navy wives, do law enforcement, anti terrorism, counter drug/piracy/smuggling. It's a much more relaxed culture. You are family instead of just another worker bee.
Alot of cute chicks in the coast Guard, at least what I saw unloading stuff of the deck with a crane at coast guard island. Alot of guys I worked with were former Navy.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:43 PM
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Sometimes if you don't advance quickly enough they deny your ability to re-enlist.
Even the Army is like that. It's dependent on the needs of the Army.

A more savvy serviceman will put himself in a position to get another MOS. More often than not, those I know pushing 20 years have multiple MOS's.
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Old 11-22-2017, 8:03 AM
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Active Duty Navy here... AWO type (Airbourne Sensor Operator). Yes, the Navy can give you a contract with a guaranteed rating (Job) and school... provided you meet the medical/physical requirements and make it through any required training pipeline. Some contracts could have you through school and out to the fleet within 1-3 months of graduating boot camp; other ratings, like mine, will require ~2 years and multiple schools in several different locations before you finally get to your first ship/squadron.

As others have said, the first step for him should be studying for the ASVAB so he can get an idea what he qualifies for... since he’s going to have to wait, he can use the time studying what jobs there are and what he wants... look at actual testimonials; not official Navy recruiting pamphlets.

A couple “Do Not Do’s”:

- Do not go PACT (Undesignated)... recruiters will try to sell it as an awesome apprenticeship program where you get to “try all the jobs, and then pick the one you like”... I can give details if you want them, but just know that’s bull***t.

- Do not sign for a job with a promise that you can switch to a better job before/during boot camp... again, not going to happen.

- [Specific to my field] If he decides he wants to be Aircrew and fly, do not sign up for an aviation maintenance job with the promise that he can volunteer for Aircrew... even if he sees a rating info sheet saying ratings like AE, AT, AO, etc. can volunteer to fly, this is no longer the case and those official Navy sheets are outdated. This is something many recruiters will adamantly try to claim is still possible because they’re not familiar with the Naval Aircrew rating merger. I try to point out this misconception as much as possible because I’ve got maintenance shops filled with maintainers who joined thinking they could volunteer for Aircrew.

- Do not expect to get anything that’s not printed in your contract... promises and guarantees mean nothing if they’re not in the enlistment contract you sign.

My final piece of advice: Look for the jobs that require a Security Clearance and offer technical skills... Intel Specialist, IT, Cryptologic Technician, etc... not door-kicker jobs (Not like the Navy is full of those anyway), but great resume builders should he do one enlistment and get out. The wording he wants to look for on a contract are ATF (Advanced Technical Field) or AECF (Advanced Electronics Computer Field)... these are contracts that guarantee an advanced follow-on “C” School and almost always give auto-advancement to Petty Officer 3rd Class upon graduation. An example of what this would look like on a contract would be AIRC/ATF (Aircrew - Advanced Technical Field).
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  #23  
Old 01-15-2018, 6:18 PM
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tell your boy go to naval academy instead of bootcamp, life is different once he makes officer
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Old 01-23-2018, 9:16 AM
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OK so here is a small test you should give the recruiter, its simple really. ask how is life in the military. if he tells you anything other than "well your first two years are gonna suck balls, and your second two are gonna be sorta ok" wal away they are lying to you. My recruiter told me those exact words and lo and behold he was right first two ate a bag of dicks the last few were manageable and i had fun.
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Old 01-28-2018, 9:46 PM
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get a bachelor degree, then go to Navy as an officer.
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Old 01-28-2018, 9:56 PM
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get a bachelor degree, then go to Navy as an officer.
It's a pretty well accepted fact that the best officers are those that spent several years as enlisted first (and this coming from one who got a B.A. and then went to OCS right after enlisting). Having the service knowledge makes a major difference.
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:02 PM
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It's a pretty well accepted fact that the best officers are those that spent several years as enlisted first (and this coming from one who got a B.A. and then went to OCS right after enlisting). Having the service knowledge makes a major difference.

you are right, but I would say depends on what kind of job you are doing. I had seen a few new officers joined Navfac with Civil Engineering degree, and met a lot of new officers with PHDs in ME and EE in Navair.


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Old 02-26-2018, 11:46 AM
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go to reserve. it sounds that fits your son more
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:50 AM
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Jeez, so many people chime in with things they don't even know about.

I'm a recruiter. I'll tell you exactly how it works, and if you want you can contact me.

To answer Ops question, the reason why it's better to sign up in HS especially early in HS is because you can't leave until After graduation. That means you will be signing up for a ship date way way way into the future. It is advantageous 1) only people in HS are contracting that far, HS graduates are filling sooner ship dates, more job selections 2) if thar station has a cool chain of command, the office can try to switch jobs for you Prior to ship date, the promise of job change is not a contract, but it's has the guarantee of - > 3) in my office I have a 3 month courtesy notice, meaning 3 month before ship date you gotta tell me if you will ship or not. Prior to that you can change ur mind and it won't even be a hassle, I'll just replace you. Legally you can change ur mind the day before leaving for boot camp, but that's pretty dick, so I make it clear to all my applicants and ensure we have that mutual respect.

Myth to dispell -
"recruiters are just pushing numbers, you make sure you get what you want" - we absolutely have numbers to justify our existence, 1 person per month BUT you with a 35asvab sir/ma'am are not special, the Navy will guarantee the job that you signed up for but we recruiter cannot see/ guarantee what job is even available for. The Navy will not make up a job for u if it's not available. Our job is to screen people for open mindedness when it comes to jobs(recruiters will take their chances if applicant has a few jobs in mind) but if you don't pick "something" you get locked out for 6months. Let's say the recruiting district needs female, they will stop everyone from being scheduled unless it's a female. If a recruiter has 5 males willing and ready, they are screwed until it's open, their applicants are screwed.

Myth#2- just go to the naval academy or NROTC- yeah if you even qualify. Get a little dose of reality first.

Myth #3- go to college first and be officer- the experience as enlisted is invaluable, but more than that, you have to factor in cost, time, and probability of failure. Once you factor all that in, you make the decision. Anyone who tells you on way or the other without filling understanding you is just talking nonsense.

Last edited by Fizzman; 03-20-2018 at 12:58 AM..
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  #30  
Old 03-21-2018, 10:29 AM
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as others that have gone thru the process and said to me:

Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:37 AM
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That aside, consider all options and other branches of service.

Congrats and thank you for choosing to serve.
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Old 03-21-2018, 4:18 PM
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Joined Active Duty but didn't ship off to bootcamp. Became a Reserve haven't been happier since. YMMV we have Active Duty, Reserve, and Guards (state owned)
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Old 03-23-2018, 6:39 PM
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I would say going into the Reserves right out of high school is a bad idea.

It's a huge distraction in life, and interrupts education significantly. GI BILL education benefits only vest after ACTIVE DUTY TIME. So once out of Training you only get $4500 a year in tuition assistance (so long as you are in) until you deploy or on put on extended orders long enough to start accruing Active Duty time.

I’ve got 7 years in the reserves, and still haven’t 100% vested my GI Bill benefits.

If you’re young, knock out three years of service and walk away with 100% GI Bill just as you hit 20 years of age. Finish a degree, and then reevaluate your options in life.

Active is a great way to fund one’s education, but the Reserves won't fund that education, and most med-large employers will have tuition assistance programs on par with the Reserves's anyway. So why bother.

Right out of high school?

Go Active.
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Old 03-23-2018, 6:51 PM
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I recently got out after about 6 years active duty Army Infantry. Best and worst times of my life. As said above, don't take whatever the recruiter says as gospel. They full of it for the most part. If it isn't in the contract at MEPs, expect it not to happen. We did get airborne and rasp slots offered to us in OSUT, but I wouldn't count on anything.

As Snoopy said above, go active. You'll get much better experience and benefits. And not to knock all reserve/guard units... but just think of it this way. Who is going to be more proficient at their job? someone who lives and trains it everyday... and is submerged in it constantly. Or someone who shows up to do it a couple days a month? And when time comes to go down range, you want the most squared away trained guys with you right? We had some NG guys attached to us during a deployment and they were ate up.
Again, it probably doesn't sound like it but not trying to knock Guard/Reserve but I would just recommend going active.

Last edited by bambam8d1; 03-23-2018 at 6:55 PM..
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Old 03-30-2018, 8:04 AM
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d.f.anonymous d.f.anonymous is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzman View Post
Jeez, so many people chime in with things they don't even know about.

I'm a recruiter. I'll tell you exactly how it works, and if you want you can contact me.

To answer Ops question, the reason why it's better to sign up in HS especially early in HS is because you can't leave until After graduation. That means you will be signing up for a ship date way way way into the future. It is advantageous 1) only people in HS are contracting that far, HS graduates are filling sooner ship dates, more job selections 2) if thar station has a cool chain of command, the office can try to switch jobs for you Prior to ship date, the promise of job change is not a contract, but it's has the guarantee of - > 3) in my office I have a 3 month courtesy notice, meaning 3 month before ship date you gotta tell me if you will ship or not. Prior to that you can change ur mind and it won't even be a hassle, I'll just replace you. Legally you can change ur mind the day before leaving for boot camp, but that's pretty dick, so I make it clear to all my applicants and ensure we have that mutual respect.

Myth to dispell -
"recruiters are just pushing numbers, you make sure you get what you want" - we absolutely have numbers to justify our existence, 1 person per month BUT you with a 35asvab sir/ma'am are not special, the Navy will guarantee the job that you signed up for but we recruiter cannot see/ guarantee what job is even available for. The Navy will not make up a job for u if it's not available. Our job is to screen people for open mindedness when it comes to jobs(recruiters will take their chances if applicant has a few jobs in mind) but if you don't pick "something" you get locked out for 6months. Let's say the recruiting district needs female, they will stop everyone from being scheduled unless it's a female. If a recruiter has 5 males willing and ready, they are screwed until it's open, their applicants are screwed.

Myth#2- just go to the naval academy or NROTC- yeah if you even qualify. Get a little dose of reality first.

Myth #3- go to college first and be officer- the experience as enlisted is invaluable, but more than that, you have to factor in cost, time, and probability of failure. Once you factor all that in, you make the decision. Anyone who tells you on way or the other without filling understanding you is just talking nonsense.
+1
As far as go to college and be an officer....you’ll still just be a useless boot...but with a college degree.
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