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  #961  
Old 09-22-2017, 9:46 PM
ilikerugers ilikerugers is offline
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So what could we, the gun owners of CoCoCo, do to change these outrages laws and regulations? Or at least make a change?
Put up a candidate for the next election cycle. The next election is June 5, 2018; that's only eight months away.

I think last time David Livingstone ran unopposed. He's so strong in his conviction because he can get away with it.
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  #962  
Old 09-23-2017, 6:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ilikerugers View Post
Put up a candidate for the next election cycle. The next election is June 5, 2018; that's only eight months away.

I think last time David Livingstone ran unopposed. He's so strong in his conviction because he can get away with it.
IIRC, the cutoff for candidates to register is the end of January: that's only 4 months away. And before that, they've got to lock in support of politicos in the county: local, state and even national representatives (e.g., mayors in the county, congressional reps in the county).

IOW, there is literally no time to spare.
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  #963  
Old 09-23-2017, 6:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
IIRC, the cutoff for candidates to register is the end of January: that's only 4 months away. And before that, they've got to lock in support of politicos in the county: local, state and even national representatives (e.g., mayors in the county, congressional reps in the county).

IOW, there is literally no time to spare.
So, you can see that democracy is badly impaired or almost non-existent in this example, and many others in this State. If a good alternative candidate steps forward, those of us who care and can, should pump some money into his/her campaign.

We've been disenfranchised because, in a democracy, there are clear choices offered to We The People. Not here.

Taxation without representation was the theme of the Boston Tea Party...just another way to say it.
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  #964  
Old 09-23-2017, 8:23 AM
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What would be the competitor's platform positions that would A) overcome the incumbent advantage, and B) get you what you want

Sure you might be able to get a competitor elected who supports sanctuary cities, giving cops nerf guns etc, but that person is not going to give you CCW.

I thought I heard rumblings that there was another candidate for the next election.
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  #965  
Old 09-23-2017, 8:33 PM
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What would be the competitor's platform positions that would A) overcome the incumbent advantage, and B) get you what you want
Doesn't seem that hard. Here is Sheriff Livingston's platform position; just fill in the blanks: It is my honor to serve you as Sheriff-Coroner of Contra Costa County. As the former Chief of Police for the City of (blank), (Contra Costa County's (blank) city) and as the former Chief of Police in (blank), I am in a unique position to bring my experience and commitment for public safety to the entire county. With your help we will continue to bring crime down, hold criminals in jail, actively monitor those on parole or probation, fight to keep our communities safe, and uphold Amendment II of the United States Constitution.
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  #966  
Old 09-24-2017, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ilikerugers View Post
Doesn't seem that hard. Here is Sheriff Livingston's platform position; just fill in the blanks: It is my honor to serve you as Sheriff-Coroner of Contra Costa County. As the former Chief of Police for the City of (blank), (Contra Costa County's (blank) city) and as the former Chief of Police in (blank), I am in a unique position to bring my experience and commitment for public safety to the entire county. With your help we will continue to bring crime down, hold criminals in jail, actively monitor those on parole or probation, fight to keep our communities safe, and uphold Amendment II of the United States Constitution.
You just got my vote....
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  #967  
Old 09-25-2017, 2:54 PM
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There is a 17% approval rating according to the Sheriff's Office. Make sure you do a really good job with your good cause statement, get help if you can, don't write that you buy a lot of stuff on Craigslist and meet Shady people and Shady spots that's not going to work, don't lie about anything, and be the 17%.
Thanks for the input, I hope my GC is good enough to be in the 17%.
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  #968  
Old 09-25-2017, 5:58 PM
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Thanks for the input, I hope my GC is good enough to be in the 17%.
Good luck, and may the 2nd be with you
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  #969  
Old 10-30-2017, 4:29 PM
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Thanks for the input, I hope my GC is good enough to be in the 17%.
updates?
I dont even have a speeding ticket but dont want to waste my time and $
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  #970  
Old 11-12-2017, 2:07 PM
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Thumbs up

Looks like the sheriff's office has done a complete overhauled their website. It now has "CCW" beneath a small pistol symbol right on their homepage!
http://www.cocosheriff.org/

It links to a page with all the info about applying for a CCW.
http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

The information on that page appears to be the same as on their 7 page application info .pdf:
http://www.cocosheriff.org/civicax/f...x?blobid=22733

I did not see any mention/info re. their Good Cause requirement. Perhaps someone in CoCoCo could contact them and post an update.

Quote:
For questions regarding the application process, contact:
Peter Enea, CCW Coordinator
Telephone: (925) 335-1547
Email: PEnea001@so.cccounty.us
I wonder if they're becoming less afraid of "Good Guys (and Gals!) with Guns"?
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  #971  
Old 11-12-2017, 2:48 PM
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Emailed.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #972  
Old 11-12-2017, 3:50 PM
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I hope for good news
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  #973  
Old 11-12-2017, 3:51 PM
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Emailed.
That's no fun for the rest of us here in CoCo. :-( Can't share publicly?

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  #974  
Old 11-12-2017, 5:01 PM
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That's no fun for the rest of us here in CoCo. :-( Can't share publicly?

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I believe he was stating that he emailed the sheriff's office to get more information.
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  #975  
Old 11-12-2017, 5:14 PM
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I believe he was stating that he emailed the sheriff's office to get more information.
Ah, makes sense.

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  #976  
Old 11-12-2017, 5:56 PM
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Ah, sorry - immediately above my post was Paladin's posting of the contact email.

I thought 'Emailed' would be sufficient for 'thanks for the contact info, I sent email'
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

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  #977  
Old 11-12-2017, 5:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Ah, sorry - immediately above my post was Paladin's posting of the contact email.

I thought 'Emailed' would be sufficient for 'thanks for the contact info, I sent email'
Just me reading on my phone and not noticing the whole picture.

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  #978  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Looks like the sheriff's office has done a complete overhauled their website. It now has "CCW" beneath a small pistol symbol right on their homepage!
http://www.cocosheriff.org/

It links to a page with all the info about applying for a CCW.
http://www.cocosheriff.org/howdoi/ccw_permit.htm

The information on that page appears to be the same as on their 7 page application info .pdf:
http://www.cocosheriff.org/civicax/f...x?blobid=22733

I did not see any mention/info re. their Good Cause requirement. Perhaps someone in CoCoCo could contact them and post an update.



I wonder if they're becoming less afraid of "Good Guys (and Gals!) with Guns"?
Thank you for sharing this info. At first it seemed encouraging. But then I realized that this Sheriff surely has not changed his anti-2A posture. As one who applied and was rejected with no reason, nothing adverse at all, other than the supposed failure to show good cause, I am not encouraged by this.

It is astonishing that it even mentions psychological testing in order to enjoy your Constitutional rights. Can't imagine the logic with that. It implies that, if they think the applicant has psych problems, they'll get him/her tested. Then if he/she passes the shrink test.....then what? Is this raising false expectations? (I have no psych problems and never had....just curious.)

By the way, when you do the electronic fingerprint scan, you are going to have to disclose your social security number in an insecure environment. Thus you are exposed to identity theft by the process itself.
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  #979  
Old 11-13-2017, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Thank you for your inquiry. “Good cause” is required by statute for a police chief or sheriff to issue a concealed weapons permit. The concept of “good cause” has also been the subject of extensive litigation in decisional law.

I handle the paperwork for permits but I am not involved in the decision on issuance of a permit. Sheriff Livingston personally considers if sufficient good cause exists to issue a permit for each application.

Thank you,
Pete Enea
So, no obvious policy change.
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I've been saying that for years ...

There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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  #980  
Old 11-13-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Quote:
I handle the paperwork for permits but I am not involved in the decision on issuance of a permit. Sheriff Livingston personally considers if sufficient good cause exists to issue a permit for each application.
So, no obvious policy change.
Subjective decisionmaking, not based upon an objective standard for Good Cause? If someone really wants a CoCoCo CCW, best to use the old "Billy Jack" approach of PRAs (backed by CBS v. Block), Salute v. Pitchess and Guillory v. Gates/County of Orange looking for possible 14th A Equal Protection violations (e.g., a "relaxed" standard for CCWers who are "Posse" members, "Friends of the Sheriff", donors to the sheriff's political campaign, etc).

Well, at least with "CCW" being out there front and center on their homepage, more folks who do qualify under the sheriff's restrictive policy will actually apply and get issued. More CCWers is always a "good thing." They may come across a BG before that BG crosses our paths.
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Last edited by Paladin; 11-13-2017 at 11:36 AM..
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  #981  
Old 11-13-2017, 12:38 PM
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So, no obvious policy change.
In other words, in the reign of Sheriff Livingston, the 2nd Amendment exists only if, as, and when he bestows it on an individual of his choosing; only to those he chooses to favor. A disrespectful view of our Constitution.
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  #982  
Old 11-13-2017, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Go Navy View Post
It is astonishing that it even mentions psychological testing in order to enjoy your Constitutional rights. Can't imagine the logic with that. It implies that, if they think the applicant has psych problems, they'll get him/her tested. Then if he/she passes the shrink test.....then what? Is this raising false expectations? (I have no psych problems and never had....just curious.)
Keep in mind that they are quoting the actual Penal Code, since that is where the option for the IA to use psych testing originates.
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  #983  
Old 11-14-2017, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Keep in mind that they are quoting the actual Penal Code, since that is where the option for the IA to use psych testing originates.
So, under this scenario, some sort of psychological "practitioner" will, in effect, decide some people's constitutional rights.

I will admit that, since most mass shootings are committed by either nut cases or Muslims, maybe there's some merit to the idea.
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  #984  
Old 11-14-2017, 9:24 AM
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So, under this scenario, some sort of psychological "practitioner" will, in effect, decide some people's constitutional rights.

I will admit that, since most mass shootings are committed by either nut cases or Muslims, maybe there's some merit to the idea.
I think it is Monterey Co that changed to SD = GC a few years ago on their own (new sheriff), but he required a psych eval from every initial applicant. IOW, he had no problem with "Good Guys with Guns", but he wanted to make sure you really were a GG before issuing. Personally, I have no problem with that, and if that's what it takes to get a county to "go green" on the map (and me get issued), I'm all for it.

Sonoma tried doing that (SD = GC but with psych eval) and to pass along the cost of the psych eval to the applicant, but the NRA threatened to sue the sheriff/county because that was against the law (which limited the cost of psych evals to less than the county would charge). I still think that was a dumb move on the NRA's part. Better to get a LOT of people issued, then (1) the sheriff would get comfortable with issuing with SD = GC, (2) the local media would see that, like everywhere else that's Shall Issue/SD = GC, there's no "blood in the streets" shootouts over fender-benders and parking spaces, and (3) that base of CCWers would bring political pressure on the sheriff to lower the cost of the psych eval or eliminate it. Plus, IIRC, it too was only for initial applicants, not renewals, so it was a one-time cost.

ETA: For newbies, here's "the map" I was referring to.

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Last edited by Paladin; 12-22-2017 at 9:09 AM..
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  #985  
Old 12-20-2017, 11:12 PM
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Default CoCoCo resident applying with good reason.

I am applying with good reason (credible threats). If I do not get one, I am down to push back through similar means.

I have not submitted my application, but after I read up on this thread, and on everything else related to CCW in COCOCO, I will let you know how it goes, may even ask for some advice.

Thanks-

GK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Hat Tip to sfpcservice for this idea.


Giving this a bump in case there's a gunnie in CoCoCo who wants to fight to get the sheriff to issue CCWs. A grand jury investigation is what took Solano Co from "dark red" to "light green" in the CA CCW GC map. (The 2010 map does not reflect the change brought about by the Grand Jury.) (FWIW I'm not sure why the 2010 map shows SLO as "dark green." We were operating off of little information back then. Most CA SOs didn't have any CCW info on their websites back then. SLO will be "light green" on the next update of the map, due out next month.)

CoCoCo would be the perfect county to use this method since: (1) you have a large pool of intelligent, educated potential jurors (and many of the retirees remember when CoCoCo was more rural), (2) you have suspicions of corruption/favoritism in issuance of CCWs, and (3) you have Solano Co issuing to your NW, Sacto issuing to your NE and San Joaquin Co issuing to your E. Don't think Nat'l Recip will save you: (1) if it passes and is signed into law, Bloomberg has already promised to pay to tie it up in the courts for years. (2) Don't think the fed. courts will save you: they may only give you a right to Open Carry, and unless you normally wear a cowboy hat & boots, who will EDC OC???

Plus, I'm not sure if you even need a lawyer to get the ball rolling. While I only briefly looked over those 2 grand jury reports, it looks like most of the "heavy lifting" (i.e., work), is done by the grand jury, not by you or your lawyer.


More at: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...apons-permits/

Here's a link to the Solano Co Grand Jury's 2006 - 2007 report: http://www.solano.courts.ca.gov/mate...aponPermit.pdf
Here's a link to the Solano Co Board of Supervisor's response to the 2006 - 2007 report: http://www.solano.courts.ca.gov/mate...ledWeapons.pdf
Here's a link to the Solano Co Grand Jury's 2008 - 2009 report: http://www.solano.courts.ca.gov/mate...enseReport.pdf

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  #986  
Old 12-20-2017, 11:43 PM
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You have police report documentation of the threats? That’s the only way they count.

Have you looked through the old docs to see how many permits were issued to people using credible threats as their good cause? Sure that was under Rupf but I don’t know just how much has changed.

I suspect that credible threats won’t be enough... just due to the length of the whole process, if the threats were that credible and immediate you’d be dead before you got issued. And if they aren’t immediate....

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kronstadt View Post
I am applying with good reason (credible threats). If I do not get one, I am down to push back through similar means.



I have not submitted my application, but after I read up on this thread, and on everything else related to CCW in COCOCO, I will let you know how it goes, may even ask for some advice.



Thanks-



GK





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  #987  
Old 12-21-2017, 9:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I think it is Monterey Co that changed to SD = GC a few years ago on their own (new sheriff), but he required a psych eval from every initial applicant.
Everything I have read says that he has since dropped the Psych eval requirement.
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  #988  
Old 12-21-2017, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Everything I have read says that he has since dropped the Psych eval requirement.

That’s correct, Monterey dropped the psych
Monterey good cause is SD
No psych
App starts online, have a copy of your drivers license and other proof of residence ready to upload
I think appointment for live scan is within a couple months, I know a guy I mentioned it to less than 2 months ago and he was in just yesterday for his livescan/appointment
Initial app fee of $138
Final due on issuance of $80
Total to MCSO/DOJ $218
Add you’re class costs to that which are anywhere between 50 and 500, depending on who you choose of course
Monterey is pretty painless these days




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Last edited by Tripper; 12-21-2017 at 10:12 AM..
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  #989  
Old 12-21-2017, 1:55 PM
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General Kronstadt General Kronstadt is offline
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Well, crap.

I do have police reports and so on. But considering they have been ongoing and repetitive every time this goober gets out of jail, I hope that will be enough. The thing is, currently he is IN jail as a result of crimes and the threats.

I for one would prefer to have a CCW BEFORE he gets out again to make more recent threats. I wish I could afford to leave CCC and go back to Placer CO, where the Sherriff is surprisingly more liberal than what we have in CCC, but actually grants CCW permits. Not anytime soon, but maybe.

Little hope that I will get one, but it's worth a try. Again, I will let you all know.




Quote:
Originally Posted by vandal View Post
You have police report documentation of the threats? That’s the only way they count.

Have you looked through the old docs to see how many permits were issued to people using credible threats as their good cause? Sure that was under Rupf but I don’t know just how much has changed.

I suspect that credible threats won’t be enough... just due to the length of the whole process, if the threats were that credible and immediate you’d be dead before you got issued. And if they aren’t immediate....




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  #990  
Old 12-21-2017, 3:00 PM
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Default A restraining order might help

Not sure if you can get a restraining order while the person is in jail, but Pen § 25600 might be of use.

http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-co...ect-25600.html

Quote:
(a) A violation of Section 25400 is justifiable when a person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that person is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against another person who has been found to pose a threat to the life or safety of the person who possesses the firearm.
A restraining order may not last as long as a carry permit, but it seems to provide a path to legal carry if the sheriff is uncooperative. Carrying based on this is a grey area once an order is in place but the person is still incarcerated, but you might be able to get a notification of pending release.
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  #991  
Old 12-21-2017, 3:13 PM
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thanks, that is a good idea. Let me see what I can do.

Appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canadagoose View Post
Not sure if you can get a restraining order while the person is in jail, but Pen § 25600 might be of use.

http://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-co...ect-25600.html



A restraining order may not last as long as a carry permit, but it seems to provide a path to legal carry if the sheriff is uncooperative. Carrying based on this is a grey area once an order is in place but the person is still incarcerated, but you might be able to get a notification of pending release.
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  #992  
Old 12-21-2017, 3:20 PM
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Hope it helps.

As always, wouldn't hurt to consult an attorney, and if you encounter law enforcement, be prepared to politely show the restraining order and quote the law.

I have a friend who's a sheriff, and twice now this has come up in conversation. Both times, he didn't believe me and I had to show him the text of the law to convince him.
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  #993  
Old 12-21-2017, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kronstadt View Post
Well, crap.



I do have police reports and so on. But considering they have been ongoing and repetitive every time this goober gets out of jail, I hope that will be enough. The thing is, currently he is IN jail as a result of crimes and the threats.



I for one would prefer to have a CCW BEFORE he gets out again to make more recent threats. I wish I could afford to leave CCC and go back to Placer CO, where the Sherriff is surprisingly more liberal than what we have in CCC, but actually grants CCW permits. Not anytime soon, but maybe.



Little hope that I will get one, but it's worth a try. Again, I will let you all know.

See if the Jail participated in VINE, it’s a system which notifies victims of a pending release of an inmate. I’m pretty sure all but a handful of County jails are using it


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  #994  
Old 12-31-2017, 6:46 AM
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I was over at the NRA's Members Council website and noticed that CoCoCo is highly unusual (unique?) in having not just 1, not even 2, but 3 Members Councils!!! (West CoCo based in Richmond, East CoCo based in Antioch, and Tri-Valley Area based in San Ramon)
http://nramemberscouncils.com/directories/MC-directory/

That being the case, what -- IF ANYTHING -- is being done by all 3 Members Councils in a coordinated manner to either get Sheriff Livingston to issue more CCWs or to replace Livingston either in this coming June's elections (Nov runoff if necessary) or in 2022?
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  #995  
Old 01-01-2018, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I was over at the NRA's Members Council website and noticed that CoCoCo is highly unusual (unique?) in having not just 1, not even 2, but 3 Members Councils!!! (West CoCo based in Richmond, East CoCo based in Antioch, and Tri-Valley Area based in San Ramon)
http://nramemberscouncils.com/directories/MC-directory/

That being the case, what -- IF ANYTHING -- is being done by all 3 Members Councils in a coordinated manner to either get Sheriff Livingston to issue more CCWs or to replace Livingston either in this coming June's elections (Nov runoff if necessary) or in 2022?
Paladin, as a resident of CoCo, I cannot answer your questions. But, if a pro-CCW candidate runs against Livingston, I will donate money to his/her campaign.

One big problem is California's "open primary" system, which ignorant or misguided voters approved a few years ago. Huge mistake.

The two top vote getters in the primary, as I understand it, go to the Nov. election. Usually, the two top vote getters now are liberals, and so those of us who are not liberals are disenfranchised from any real choices.
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  #996  
Old 01-02-2018, 7:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Navy View Post
One big problem is California's "open primary" system, which ignorant or misguided voters approved a few years ago. Huge mistake.

The two top vote getters in the primary, as I understand it, go to the Nov. election. Usually, the two top vote getters now are liberals, and so those of us who are not liberals are disenfranchised from any real choices.
While this is true in general, IIRC, sheriffs' races are non-partisan: they don't run as Repubs or Dems. Whoever gets >50% in June wins. If no one gets >50%, then there's a run off election in Nov. Either way, the new sheriff doesn't take office until the following January.

Since you're in CoCoCo, if you're a NRA Member, you might want to visit the MC nearest to you at their next monthly meeting and find out what they're doing to increase CCW issuance in the county, and if they're doing nothing, why they're doing nothing on that issue and what are they doing instead???
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  #997  
Old 01-02-2018, 7:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
While this is true in general, IIRC, sheriffs' races are non-partisan: they don't run as Repubs or Dems. Whoever gets >50% in June wins. If no one gets >50%, then there's a run off election in Nov. Either way, the new sheriff doesn't take office until the following January.

Since you're in CoCoCo, if you're a NRA Member, you might want to visit the MC nearest to you at their next monthly meeting and find out what they're doing to increase CCW issuance in the county, and if they're doing nothing, why they're doing nothing on that issue and what are they doing instead???
What's an "MC"?
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  #998  
Old 01-02-2018, 8:06 AM
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Quote:
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What's an "MC"?
NRA Members Council
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  #999  
Old 01-02-2018, 9:23 PM
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Hope this helps:

http://nramemberscouncils.com/direct...pe=&category=3
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  #1000  
Old 01-03-2018, 6:43 AM
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Quote:
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It does...thanks very much!
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