#241
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What contradictions?
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#242
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it is straight up logical thinking. faith doesn't dismiss logic. |
#243
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is god all knowing and all powerful?
if adam and eve had cain and able, where did cain and able's wives come from? Last edited by theLBC; 11-28-2017 at 4:59 PM.. |
#244
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Logic is what sets men apart and emboldens our faith
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#245
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If there was just Adam and Eve, Where did everyone come from, and how long did they live?
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#246
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Good. The entire topic, if I am completely honest, is one of the reasons I don't consider myself a Christian. I will never accept that any just god would exclude anyone just because they never heard of Jesus, or were brought up in a different religion with the same basic rules of morality. Jesus preached love, but men preach a bunch of dogma they created in order to control the flock. |
#247
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There is plenty of literal to be taken in the bible so we don't agree. why would you think it is not?
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I find it hard to believe you don't have a rudimentary understanding of the bible. This post would convince me, but I am guessing I am wrong? Please respond to the specific questions and biblical passages so I can better understand where you are coming from You seem to want to post with out using logic on specific questions asked of you.
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#248
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I see your point, but most hard core Christians won't. In this day and age people just don't take these things literally. There is now far more information than when the Bible was put together. For example, we now know there is zero proof of Hebrew slaves being in Egypt. The Egyptians kept tremendous records, but then the reading of Egyptian hieroglyphics was lost for hundreds of years. Until a soldier in Napoleon's army found the Rosetta Stone. We have no record at all of the so called Exodus, or of other things that supposedly happened in ancient Egypt. Even most Israeli historians and anthropologists accept this. Now, a Jewish religious person will ignore it, and say it is true, no matter there is no record, proof, etc. This is where faith kicks in. Just like Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt for looking back at the destruction of Sodom,etc. Is this less far fetched than looking at Medusa and turning into a stone statue? Science pretty much tells us it's impossible for someone to gather every living thing and put them in a boat/ark. Can you imagine trying to see if an ant, or a flea is female or male? If you take the Bible literally the answer is simple. God did it. But, if you look at it logically, you will always question how these things ever did happen. Belief is just that, your belief. You will always say yours is right, and the other guys is wrong. Sadly not so much now with Christianity as it's in a waning period, but look at how Muslims kill each other due to being Sunni, or Shia, or Sufi, and Alawite. Muslims kill far more Muslims than Christians or Jews. The destruction of nations that were proud in ancient times now laid to waste. If everybody would just let others live the way they feel without hurting someone else, or forcing an idea on them we would have a much better planet. Be you a Sufi or a Shia, or a Catholic or a Protestant, Jew, or Buddhist, Hindu, or Baha'i. Or for that matter secular in belief. Sadly for eternity people love pushing ideas on people whether they like them or not.
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#249
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If we were created, why is God beyond the supernatural?
Why aren't humans being turned into pillars of salt possible Why when the walls of jericho were found, they were laying exactly as the bible mentioned? With God all things are possible. Why would you limit God?
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; Last edited by colossians323; 11-28-2017 at 7:33 PM.. |
#251
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ETA; oh, and read Romans chapter one. you will answer your own question
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#252
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it is very telling that you cannot simply answer such a direct question, so there is no need to try now. i've read Romans I dozens of times. it says nothing about modern day christian dogma preached by 99% of churches. https://biblemesh.com/blog/do-you-ha...-go-to-heaven/ Last edited by theLBC; 11-28-2017 at 7:52 PM.. |
#253
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To claim there is ‘zero proof of Hebrews slaves in Egypt’ is inaccurate. Historians that study ancient Egypt and Israel are aware of plenty of evidence that supports the presence of Semitic slavery in Egypt. There are scrolls and tomb markings detailing the work of Nubian and Semite slaves and prisoners of war from as early as Ahmose to as late as Ramesses II. Admittedly the Exodus is a little more dubious from an archeological standpoint, but not an anthropological view. There are several documented events similar to the Exodus story in Egyptian history, so an event as described in Exodus is not ruled out as a possibility.
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Mark 16:16 Last edited by WASR10; 11-28-2017 at 7:50 PM.. |
#254
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Maybe the bold will help you out
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#255
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Exactly as you say, there were slaves, of course. However research has shown the dates are far from the dates of anytime near the exodus. After Israel captured the Sinai in 67, there were many studies looking for traces of the ancient Hebrews wandering in the desert. There were supposedly hundreds of thousands.
According to Exodus 12:37–38, the Israelites numbered "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children", plus many non-Israelites and livestock. Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up.' Now, if that number is even close you would think you would find something. they did find things, like Greek, Roman, Egyptian, but nothing even close to anything proving more than a half million people in the desert. Again, if your faith be it Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim for that matter believes in the Exodus, case closed. We may still find Atlantis? We did find Troy, so who knows. As of now, though, the jury is still out. |
#256
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The absence of evidence of wandering in the wilderness proves or disproves nothing at all. The Semitic people at this time period would not have built or left behind anything other than footprints and campfire ash. As a side note, these comments of mine have nothing to do with my faith or anyone else’s. If you are interested in what I believe about the subject I will share, but it is really irrelevant. Edit to add: a note on the numbers. I add this only for perspective's sake. The Hebrew word for 'thousand' is eleph. Eleph can mean different things depending on its context. Sometimes it means 'thousand,' sometimes it means a group or number of people, and sometimes its simply refers to the leader of a group. So, with this in mind, the number referred to in Exodus can possibly mean anywhere from a few thousand people to over 2 million. Just an interesting side note.
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Mark 16:16 Last edited by WASR10; 11-28-2017 at 8:44 PM.. |
#257
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your presumption that god has made himself known to everyone is laughable at best. you are basically inferring that every non-believer has rejected what they should know inside "because God made it evident". why are there missionaries when God has already revealed himself to everyone? faith is a gift /that not everyone has received. Last edited by theLBC; 11-28-2017 at 11:22 PM.. |
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#259
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#260
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the god you worship abandons them, mine does not (if i had one). |
#261
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Are those tribes innocent?
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#262
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Innocent of what? Again, these ideas really aren't that useful nowadays. Telling people they are going to hell really doesn't help the cause of trying to convince people God is great. Now, in countries that still shoot arrows at planes they might be more will to listen. Here and in most countries that have a high level of literacy it sounds very much like the Muslims without the violence. Calling out people as apostates, or the Whore of Babylon, or fill in the blank makes it far harder in this day and age to think these ideas are so great.
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#263
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Are you saying His attributes cannot be seen in His creation?
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; Last edited by colossians323; 11-29-2017 at 10:43 AM.. |
#264
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The more you post, it sounds like you are making up the god that you want to revolve around you, rather than the God who created you?
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#265
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"Innocent of what?" you ask? You brought up the subject of isolated tribes and do they go to Hell if the have not heard the Gospel. Only people who do not worship the Father go to Hell. If they are innocent of not worshiping the Father then they have nothing to worry about.
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#266
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you make no sense and constantly contradict yourself, much like the bible. and you still cannot answer a simple question, except by suggesting another reading. weaksauce. i don't believe in an all powerful god. i believe that god is love, compassion and charity. when people act with compassion and charity, they demonstrate that god exists. here is another question i expect you to dodge. Do Muslims go to heaven if they are decent people, but reject the idea that Christ is our savior? Last edited by theLBC; 11-29-2017 at 12:01 PM.. |
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Or for that matter Jews. Jews don't believe in Jesus other than he was a rabbi in the first century who many claim to be the messiah. Now, for those who don't know anything about Judaism, it is closer in ways to Islam than to Christianity. They are the ones who brought the idea of a messiah to the Middle East. Now, their messiah was never ever supposed to be a man god. This is as pagan to a Jew as Hercules is the son of Zeus. Their messiah was supposed to be a figure who brought all to worship God, only, and no sons, virgins, holy spirits, etc. He had to do certain things, and neither Jesus, nor Simon Bar Kochba, accomplished these things. Also there is no second coming in the Jewish religion like in Christianity. This concept is totally alien to a Jew since there is no first coming. Jews for the most part have rejected Christianity for two thousand years since they view it a a pagan influenced religion. Many who talk of the Catholic church making Mary a goddess in some way, is how Jews view Jesus as a version of a man god. Totally not part of their faith. As you can see all have their own version of how God or the gods are supposed to be.
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#268
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- 2.2 billion Christians vs 14 million Jews and you believe that Jews and Christians both worship the God of Abraham (as well as Muslims), then the idea of Jesus Christ has done much more to spread the word of God than Judaism has or ever will. |
#269
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So the issue, then, is some here disagree with God as He is described in the Bible; He does not conform to their ideas of what a god should be. Many people share this opinion, it's not uncommon. I am sure we all know that, whether we believe in Him or not, our opinions don't change the Bible or what is written about Him.
So when it is asked, will all good people go to heaven? Or, will good Muslims go to heaven? Will good Jews? I assume they are asking what the Bible teaches on these matters, and not what a person’s opinion is.
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Mark 16:16 |
#270
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i can read and interpret the bible myself, and i believe that answers that only suggest reading a verse or chapter is a dodge by people that are unsure of their own faith and beliefs. |
#271
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#272
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What I mean is, I can quote the Bible to relay what it teaches, and I can state whether I believe it to be so, and then I can also give my opinion on that teaching. So when asked a question, I like to clarify what is being asked.
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Mark 16:16 |
#273
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew |
#274
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I also sincerely believe this thread was specifically about how different people have different interpretations for certain portions of the bible, and how the dogma differs quite a bit between Catholicism and all the different Protestant denominations. don't get me started on the Episcopalians. in other words, we all have the same bible (perhaps with some differences, depending on the version you like). imho, offering an "opinion" or "contribution" to a thread by quoting bible text or telling others to "read the bible" smacks of insincerity of fear or being wrong (and i am saying this without (again) accusing anyone in particular) Last edited by theLBC; 11-29-2017 at 2:24 PM.. |
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also, i believe that if it exists, murdering child molesters should go to H-E-doublehockeysticks and not heaven, and i don't care if they find god and believe in whatever you want. dang them to heck.
another reason i cannot say i am a christian. |
#276
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obviously, at least 2/3 of people on the planet are wrong already. i believe forum discussions are for discussion, not preaching, although i now realize we might have some gun toting preachers here. i hope a better understanding of what i was expecting helps. and i could be wrong about my expectations as well. |
#277
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=933294 If you are really expecting answers it helps to not be hostile to the people you're addressing. Any and all of us will gladly engage with you. But getting frustrated and lashing out isn't going to help you.
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Psalm 103 Mojave Lever Crew Last edited by RAMCLAP; 11-29-2017 at 2:52 PM.. |
#278
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i don't want to pull a franken and try to make excuses, but i wasn't trying to imply that anyone was wrong, but rather that they weren't even offering a real honest personal opinion or testimony, and i lashed out at that, not what i thought they believe. hopefully it isn't too late to retain my access, but i understand if not. i grew up catholic, went to church before school every day in grade school. my brother went to seminary (and I studied many of his school books) so i enjoy discussions of faith while i admit to having not received the gift myself. maybe i want people to argue personally to me, because deep down i want somebody to convince me to go back to the church. (or i am just a d*ck) i enjoy church, the feeling of community, and i still volunteer at outreach centers, but for me, going to church made me feel hypocritical when i didn't agree with some of the ideas or dogma. |
#279
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How do blind people enjoy Gods creation, do you think Gods creation ends at the visual, and there is no sensory?
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*answer* I don't choose who and who does not go to heaven, but if moslems are following the moon god, or the god of their books, they are worshiping a god who thinks salvation only comes by the sword. What do you know of islam and have you studied their books?
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
#280
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As mentioned before, if you don't like people answering your questions with scripture, Jesus probably really annoys you with how many times he and his disciples do this.
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LIVE FREE OR DIE! M. Sage's I have a dream speech; |
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