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  #241  
Old 11-28-2017, 4:53 PM
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what you are inferring is that everybody is saved and goes to heaven, no matter what they do or say.

sorry, but my interpretation of the bible is starkly different.

but then, the bible is full of contradictions...
What contradictions?
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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  #242  
Old 11-28-2017, 4:56 PM
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Well maybe you should read deeper?
Doesn't matter what you have done or when you have come to repentance, the thief on the cross shows that in his final hour, as does the parable I posted.
i am not even arguing interpretation of the bible.
it is straight up logical thinking.
faith doesn't dismiss logic.
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  #243  
Old 11-28-2017, 4:57 PM
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What contradictions?
is god all knowing and all powerful?

if adam and eve had cain and able, where did cain and able's wives come from?

Last edited by theLBC; 11-28-2017 at 4:59 PM..
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  #244  
Old 11-28-2017, 5:00 PM
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i am not even arguing interpretation of the bible.
it is straight up logical thinking.
faith doesn't dismiss logic.
Waiting!
Logic is what sets men apart and emboldens our faith
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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  #245  
Old 11-28-2017, 5:01 PM
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is god all knowing and all powerful?

if adam and eve had cain and able, where did cain and able's wives come from?
If there was just Adam and Eve, Where did everyone come from, and how long did they live?
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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  #246  
Old 11-28-2017, 5:17 PM
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If there was just Adam and Eve, Where did everyone come from, and how long did they live?
So you agree the bible is not meant to be taken literally.
Good.

The entire topic, if I am completely honest, is one of the reasons I don't consider myself a Christian.

I will never accept that any just god would exclude anyone just because they never heard of Jesus, or were brought up in a different religion with the same basic rules of morality.

Jesus preached love, but men preach a bunch of dogma they created in order to control the flock.
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  #247  
Old 11-28-2017, 6:27 PM
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So you agree the bible is not meant to be taken literally.
Good.
There is plenty of literal to be taken in the bible so we don't agree. why would you think it is not?
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The entire topic, if I am completely honest, is one of the reasons I don't consider myself a Christian.

I will never accept that any just god would exclude anyone just because they never heard of Jesus, or were brought up in a different religion with the same basic rules of morality.
Obviously you have not read Romans 1. What does that chapter mean in regards to what you are saying here?
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Jesus preached love, but men preach a bunch of dogma they created in order to control the flock.
What did he say to those he healed? Did he say, I love you, you are healed, keep on sinning?

I find it hard to believe you don't have a rudimentary understanding of the bible. This post would convince me, but I am guessing I am wrong?

Please respond to the specific questions and biblical passages so I can better understand where you are coming from

You seem to want to post with out using logic on specific questions asked of you.
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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  #248  
Old 11-28-2017, 6:58 PM
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I see your point, but most hard core Christians won't. In this day and age people just don't take these things literally. There is now far more information than when the Bible was put together. For example, we now know there is zero proof of Hebrew slaves being in Egypt. The Egyptians kept tremendous records, but then the reading of Egyptian hieroglyphics was lost for hundreds of years. Until a soldier in Napoleon's army found the Rosetta Stone. We have no record at all of the so called Exodus, or of other things that supposedly happened in ancient Egypt. Even most Israeli historians and anthropologists accept this. Now, a Jewish religious person will ignore it, and say it is true, no matter there is no record, proof, etc. This is where faith kicks in. Just like Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt for looking back at the destruction of Sodom,etc. Is this less far fetched than looking at Medusa and turning into a stone statue? Science pretty much tells us it's impossible for someone to gather every living thing and put them in a boat/ark. Can you imagine trying to see if an ant, or a flea is female or male? If you take the Bible literally the answer is simple. God did it. But, if you look at it logically, you will always question how these things ever did happen. Belief is just that, your belief. You will always say yours is right, and the other guys is wrong. Sadly not so much now with Christianity as it's in a waning period, but look at how Muslims kill each other due to being Sunni, or Shia, or Sufi, and Alawite. Muslims kill far more Muslims than Christians or Jews. The destruction of nations that were proud in ancient times now laid to waste. If everybody would just let others live the way they feel without hurting someone else, or forcing an idea on them we would have a much better planet. Be you a Sufi or a Shia, or a Catholic or a Protestant, Jew, or Buddhist, Hindu, or Baha'i. Or for that matter secular in belief. Sadly for eternity people love pushing ideas on people whether they like them or not.
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  #249  
Old 11-28-2017, 7:02 PM
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If we were created, why is God beyond the supernatural?
Why aren't humans being turned into pillars of salt possible
Why when the walls of jericho were found, they were laying exactly as the bible mentioned?

With God all things are possible. Why would you limit God?
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.

Last edited by colossians323; 11-28-2017 at 7:33 PM..
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  #250  
Old 11-28-2017, 7:09 PM
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Do you, or do you not, have to accept Jesus as your savior to go to heaven?
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  #251  
Old 11-28-2017, 7:31 PM
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Do you, or do you not, have to accept Jesus as your savior to go to heaven?
Waiting for answers to several previous questions. Lets make this a two way conversation rather than to make this one way? Use some logic and the bible and answer the several questions in several posts. Otherwise you sound like a millennial hell bent on getting his own way.

ETA; oh, and read Romans chapter one. you will answer your own question
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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  #252  
Old 11-28-2017, 7:38 PM
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Waiting for answers to several previous questions. Lets make this a two way conversation rather than to make this one way? Use some logic and the bible and answer the several questions in several posts. Otherwise you sound like a millennial hell bent on getting his own way.

ETA; oh, and read Romans chapter one. you will answer your own question
lol, you have not answered a single question, except with more questions.
it is very telling that you cannot simply answer such a direct question, so there is no need to try now.

i've read Romans I dozens of times. it says nothing about modern day christian dogma preached by 99% of churches.

https://biblemesh.com/blog/do-you-ha...-go-to-heaven/

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  #253  
Old 11-28-2017, 7:47 PM
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To claim there is ‘zero proof of Hebrews slaves in Egypt’ is inaccurate. Historians that study ancient Egypt and Israel are aware of plenty of evidence that supports the presence of Semitic slavery in Egypt. There are scrolls and tomb markings detailing the work of Nubian and Semite slaves and prisoners of war from as early as Ahmose to as late as Ramesses II. Admittedly the Exodus is a little more dubious from an archeological standpoint, but not an anthropological view. There are several documented events similar to the Exodus story in Egyptian history, so an event as described in Exodus is not ruled out as a possibility.
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  #254  
Old 11-28-2017, 7:59 PM
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lol, you have not answered a single question, except with more questions.
it is very telling that you cannot simply answer such a direct question, so there is no need to try now.

i've read Romans I dozens of times. it says nothing about modern day christian dogma preached by 99% of churches.

https://biblemesh.com/blog/do-you-ha...-go-to-heaven/
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Maybe the bold will help you out
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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  #255  
Old 11-28-2017, 8:14 PM
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Exactly as you say, there were slaves, of course. However research has shown the dates are far from the dates of anytime near the exodus. After Israel captured the Sinai in 67, there were many studies looking for traces of the ancient Hebrews wandering in the desert. There were supposedly hundreds of thousands.
According to Exodus 12:37–38, the Israelites numbered "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children", plus many non-Israelites and livestock. Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up.'
Now, if that number is even close you would think you would find something. they did find things, like Greek, Roman, Egyptian, but nothing even close to anything proving more than a half million people in the desert. Again, if your faith be it Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim for that matter believes in the Exodus, case closed. We may still find Atlantis? We did find Troy, so who knows. As of now, though, the jury is still out.
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Old 11-28-2017, 8:34 PM
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Exactly as you say, there were slaves, of course. However research has shown the dates are far from the dates of anytime near the exodus. After Israel captured the Sinai in 67, there were many studies looking for traces of the ancient Hebrews wandering in the desert. There were supposedly hundreds of thousands.
According to Exodus 12:37–38, the Israelites numbered "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children", plus many non-Israelites and livestock. Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up.'
Now, if that number is even close you would think you would find something. they did find things, like Greek, Roman, Egyptian, but nothing even close to anything proving more than a half million people in the desert. Again, if your faith be it Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim for that matter believes in the Exodus, case closed. We may still find Atlantis? We did find Troy, so who knows. As of now, though, the jury is still out.
As I stated before, there is evidence dating from Ahmose (1539 BC–1514 BC approx) to Ramesses II (1303 BC-1224 BC approx) and beyond. Most Bible scholars contend the events surrounding the Exodus story occur in late 14th to early 13th century BC, which is exactly in the appropriate time period of the indications in question. It can be considered conclusive - Hebrew slaves were present at the time the story supposedly takes place.

The absence of evidence of wandering in the wilderness proves or disproves nothing at all. The Semitic people at this time period would not have built or left behind anything other than footprints and campfire ash.

As a side note, these comments of mine have nothing to do with my faith or anyone else’s. If you are interested in what I believe about the subject I will share, but it is really irrelevant.

Edit to add: a note on the numbers. I add this only for perspective's sake. The Hebrew word for 'thousand' is eleph. Eleph can mean different things depending on its context. Sometimes it means 'thousand,' sometimes it means a group or number of people, and sometimes its simply refers to the leader of a group. So, with this in mind, the number referred to in Exodus can possibly mean anywhere from a few thousand people to over 2 million. Just an interesting side note.
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Old 11-28-2017, 11:18 PM
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18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Maybe the bold will help you out
yes, it makes it very clear that your god is an unjust god that punishes people for not realizing they are supposed to worship him.

your presumption that god has made himself known to everyone is laughable at best.
you are basically inferring that every non-believer has rejected what they should know inside "because God made it evident".

why are there missionaries when God has already revealed himself to everyone?

faith is a gift

/that not everyone has received.

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  #258  
Old 11-29-2017, 4:37 AM
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I see your point, but most hard core Christians won't. In this day and age people just don't take these things literally. There is now far more information than when the Bible was put together. For example, we now know there is zero proof of Hebrew slaves being in Egypt. The Egyptians kept tremendous records, but then the reading of Egyptian hieroglyphics was lost for hundreds of years. Until a soldier in Napoleon's army found the Rosetta Stone. We have no record at all of the so called Exodus, or of other things that supposedly happened in ancient Egypt. Even most Israeli historians and anthropologists accept this. Now, a Jewish religious person will ignore it, and say it is true, no matter there is no record, proof, etc. This is where faith kicks in. Just like Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt for looking back at the destruction of Sodom,etc. Is this less far fetched than looking at Medusa and turning into a stone statue? Science pretty much tells us it's impossible for someone to gather every living thing and put them in a boat/ark. Can you imagine trying to see if an ant, or a flea is female or male? If you take the Bible literally the answer is simple. God did it. But, if you look at it logically, you will always question how these things ever did happen. Belief is just that, your belief. You will always say yours is right, and the other guys is wrong. Sadly not so much now with Christianity as it's in a waning period, but look at how Muslims kill each other due to being Sunni, or Shia, or Sufi, and Alawite. Muslims kill far more Muslims than Christians or Jews. The destruction of nations that were proud in ancient times now laid to waste. If everybody would just let others live the way they feel without hurting someone else, or forcing an idea on them we would have a much better planet. Be you a Sufi or a Shia, or a Catholic or a Protestant, Jew, or Buddhist, Hindu, or Baha'i. Or for that matter secular in belief. Sadly for eternity people love pushing ideas on people whether they like them or not.
https://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/goshen.htm
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Old 11-29-2017, 4:45 AM
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yes, it makes it very clear that your god is an unjust god that punishes people for not realizing they are supposed to worship him.

your presumption that god has made himself known to everyone is laughable at best.
you are basically inferring that every non-believer has rejected what they should know inside "because God made it evident".

why are there missionaries when God has already revealed himself to everyone?

faith is a gift

/that not everyone has received.
God is not evil. Men are evil. God does not owe any human anything. In fact all humans deserve death and Hell for the evil they do. The greatest evil is that just by looking at creation they know there is a creator but fall back on false notions that everything came from nothing. Violating the laws of physics and non-contradiction. Those alone are worthy of Hell. But in the greatest act of compassion ever, He sends His Son to die for the sins of the world. Belief in Him relieves the punishment for those sins. If someone goes to Hell they were not unfairly treated. In your home you make the rules and violators of those rules don't get to call you unfair. Man is in no position to judge God.
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Old 11-29-2017, 5:40 AM
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God is not evil. Men are evil. God does not owe any human anything. In fact all humans deserve death and Hell for the evil they do. The greatest evil is that just by looking at creation they know there is a creator but fall back on false notions that everything came from nothing. Violating the laws of physics and non-contradiction. Those alone are worthy of Hell. But in the greatest act of compassion ever, He sends His Son to die for the sins of the world. Belief in Him relieves the punishment for those sins. If someone goes to Hell they were not unfairly treated. In your home you make the rules and violators of those rules don't get to call you unfair. Man is in no position to judge God.
isolated tribes in the amazon forests have no idea what you are talking about.
the god you worship abandons them, mine does not (if i had one).
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Old 11-29-2017, 7:23 AM
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isolated tribes in the amazon forests have no idea what you are talking about.
the god you worship abandons them, mine does not (if i had one).
Are those tribes innocent?
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Old 11-29-2017, 8:28 AM
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Innocent of what? Again, these ideas really aren't that useful nowadays. Telling people they are going to hell really doesn't help the cause of trying to convince people God is great. Now, in countries that still shoot arrows at planes they might be more will to listen. Here and in most countries that have a high level of literacy it sounds very much like the Muslims without the violence. Calling out people as apostates, or the Whore of Babylon, or fill in the blank makes it far harder in this day and age to think these ideas are so great.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:40 AM
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yes, it makes it very clear that your god is an unjust god that punishes people for not realizing they are supposed to worship him.

your presumption that god has made himself known to everyone is laughable at best.
you are basically inferring that every non-believer has rejected what they should know inside "because God made it evident".

why are there missionaries when God has already revealed himself to everyone?

faith is a gift

/that not everyone has received.
I think you must be reading a different passage.

Are you saying His attributes cannot be seen in His creation?
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M. Sage's I have a dream speech;

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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.

Last edited by colossians323; 11-29-2017 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:42 AM
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isolated tribes in the amazon forests have no idea what you are talking about.
the god you worship abandons them, mine does not (if i had one).
So you're saying that they cannot see God through his creation?

The more you post, it sounds like you are making up the god that you want to revolve around you, rather than the God who created you?
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I dream about the day that the average would-be rapist is afraid to approach a woman who's walking alone at night. I dream of the day when two punks talk each other out of sticking up a liquor store because it's too damn risky.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:52 AM
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Innocent of what? Again, these ideas really aren't that useful nowadays. Telling people they are going to hell really doesn't help the cause of trying to convince people God is great. Now, in countries that still shoot arrows at planes they might be more will to listen. Here and in most countries that have a high level of literacy it sounds very much like the Muslims without the violence. Calling out people as apostates, or the Whore of Babylon, or fill in the blank makes it far harder in this day and age to think these ideas are so great.
I didn't call anybody anything. "Useful nowadays" is just relativism. God is God and never changes. His word endures forever and is not subject to popular mores of any age. Loving people enough to tell them about the free gift of life is not predicated on whether a society likes it or not or finds it useful. In fact the Scriptures state flatly that people will kill you for giving the Gospel. So, no age has ever thought these ideas were that great.

"Innocent of what?" you ask? You brought up the subject of isolated tribes and do they go to Hell if the have not heard the Gospel. Only people who do not worship the Father go to Hell. If they are innocent of not worshiping the Father then they have nothing to worry about.
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Old 11-29-2017, 11:54 AM
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So you're saying that they cannot see God through his creation?

The more you post, it sounds like you are making up the god that you want to revolve around you, rather than the God who created you?
so blind people are doomed?

you make no sense and constantly contradict yourself, much like the bible.
and you still cannot answer a simple question, except by suggesting another reading. weaksauce.

i don't believe in an all powerful god.
i believe that god is love, compassion and charity. when people act with compassion and charity, they demonstrate that god exists.

here is another question i expect you to dodge. Do Muslims go to heaven if they are decent people, but reject the idea that Christ is our savior?

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Old 11-29-2017, 12:58 PM
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Or for that matter Jews. Jews don't believe in Jesus other than he was a rabbi in the first century who many claim to be the messiah. Now, for those who don't know anything about Judaism, it is closer in ways to Islam than to Christianity. They are the ones who brought the idea of a messiah to the Middle East. Now, their messiah was never ever supposed to be a man god. This is as pagan to a Jew as Hercules is the son of Zeus. Their messiah was supposed to be a figure who brought all to worship God, only, and no sons, virgins, holy spirits, etc. He had to do certain things, and neither Jesus, nor Simon Bar Kochba, accomplished these things. Also there is no second coming in the Jewish religion like in Christianity. This concept is totally alien to a Jew since there is no first coming. Jews for the most part have rejected Christianity for two thousand years since they view it a a pagan influenced religion. Many who talk of the Catholic church making Mary a goddess in some way, is how Jews view Jesus as a version of a man god. Totally not part of their faith. As you can see all have their own version of how God or the gods are supposed to be.
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Old 11-29-2017, 1:19 PM
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Or for that matter Jews. Jews don't believe in Jesus other than he was a rabbi in the first century who many claim to be the messiah. Now, for those who don't know anything about Judaism, it is closer in ways to Islam than to Christianity. They are the ones who brought the idea of a messiah to the Middle East. Now, their messiah was never ever supposed to be a man god. This is as pagan to a Jew as Hercules is the son of Zeus. Their messiah was supposed to be a figure who brought all to worship God, only, and no sons, virgins, holy spirits, etc. He had to do certain things, and neither Jesus, nor Simon Bar Kochba, accomplished these things. Also there is no second coming in the Jewish religion like in Christianity. This concept is totally alien to a Jew since there is no first coming. Jews for the most part have rejected Christianity for two thousand years since they view it a a pagan influenced religion. Many who talk of the Catholic church making Mary a goddess in some way, is how Jews view Jesus as a version of a man god. Totally not part of their faith. As you can see all have their own version of how God or the gods are supposed to be.
i'm not disagreeing with everything here louie, but if you think about the numbers
- 2.2 billion Christians vs 14 million Jews
and you believe that Jews and Christians both worship the God of Abraham (as well as Muslims), then the idea of Jesus Christ has done much more to spread the word of God than Judaism has or ever will.
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Old 11-29-2017, 1:27 PM
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So the issue, then, is some here disagree with God as He is described in the Bible; He does not conform to their ideas of what a god should be. Many people share this opinion, it's not uncommon. I am sure we all know that, whether we believe in Him or not, our opinions don't change the Bible or what is written about Him.

So when it is asked, will all good people go to heaven? Or, will good Muslims go to heaven? Will good Jews? I assume they are asking what the Bible teaches on these matters, and not what a person’s opinion is.
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Old 11-29-2017, 1:39 PM
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So the issue, then, is some here disagree with God as He is described in the Bible; He does not conform to their ideas of what a god should be. Many people share this opinion, it's not uncommon. I am sure we all know that, whether we believe in Him or not, our opinions don't change the Bible or what is written about Him.

So when it is asked, will all good people go to heaven? Or, will good Muslims go to heaven? Will good Jews? I assume they are asking what the Bible teaches on these matters, and not what a person’s opinion is.
actually, when i ask these questions, i am asking for the forum member's interpretation of the bible, or what they have been taught and what they believe.

i can read and interpret the bible myself, and i believe that answers that only suggest reading a verse or chapter is a dodge by people that are unsure of their own faith and beliefs.
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Old 11-29-2017, 1:52 PM
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Or for that matter Jews. Jews don't believe in Jesus other than he was a rabbi in the first century who many claim to be the messiah. Now, for those who don't know anything about Judaism, it is closer in ways to Islam than to Christianity. They are the ones who brought the idea of a messiah to the Middle East. Now, their messiah was never ever supposed to be a man god. This is as pagan to a Jew as Hercules is the son of Zeus. Their messiah was supposed to be a figure who brought all to worship God, only, and no sons, virgins, holy spirits, etc. He had to do certain things, and neither Jesus, nor Simon Bar Kochba, accomplished these things. Also there is no second coming in the Jewish religion like in Christianity. This concept is totally alien to a Jew since there is no first coming. Jews for the most part have rejected Christianity for two thousand years since they view it a a pagan influenced religion. Many who talk of the Catholic church making Mary a goddess in some way, is how Jews view Jesus as a version of a man god. Totally not part of their faith. As you can see all have their own version of how God or the gods are supposed to be.
Which is why the Jews did not recognize Him when He came.
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Old 11-29-2017, 1:57 PM
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actually, when i ask these questions, i am asking for the forum member's interpretation of the bible, or what they have been taught and what they believe.

i can read and interpret the bible myself, and i believe that answers that only suggest reading a verse or chapter is a dodge by people that are unsure of their own faith and beliefs.
Fair enough. I needed clarification because I am of the mind that, when asking what the Bible or God says on a subject, quoting the Bible is sufficient for an answer. But in matters of doctrine, what people are taught and what people believe isn't always what is written. I find it important to make the distinction between scripture, belief, and opinion.

What I mean is, I can quote the Bible to relay what it teaches, and I can state whether I believe it to be so, and then I can also give my opinion on that teaching. So when asked a question, I like to clarify what is being asked.
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Old 11-29-2017, 2:00 PM
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actually, when i ask these questions, i am asking for the forum member's interpretation of the bible, or what they have been taught and what they believe.

i can read and interpret the bible myself, and i believe that answers that only suggest reading a verse or chapter is a dodge by people that are unsure of their own faith and beliefs.
I don't understand how that only works for you. It makes the attack personal instead of arguing a point. Second, by making such statements one can simply turn it to accuse you of the same thing. Accusing others of being unsure sounds a lot like projection which smacks of agenda and makes the discussion pointless.
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Old 11-29-2017, 2:22 PM
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I don't understand how that only works for you. It makes the attack personal instead of arguing a point. Second, by making such statements one can simply turn it to accuse you of the same thing. Accusing others of being unsure sounds a lot like projection which smacks of agenda and makes the discussion pointless.
I apologize sincerely if anything i have said is taken as an attack, and i admit that sometimes i post harshly when i get frustrated.

I also sincerely believe this thread was specifically about how different people have different interpretations for certain portions of the bible, and how the dogma differs quite a bit between Catholicism and all the different Protestant denominations.

don't get me started on the Episcopalians.

in other words, we all have the same bible (perhaps with some differences, depending on the version you like).

imho, offering an "opinion" or "contribution" to a thread by quoting bible text or telling others to "read the bible" smacks of insincerity of fear or being wrong (and i am saying this without (again) accusing anyone in particular)

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Old 11-29-2017, 2:30 PM
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also, i believe that if it exists, murdering child molesters should go to H-E-doublehockeysticks and not heaven, and i don't care if they find god and believe in whatever you want. dang them to heck.

another reason i cannot say i am a christian.
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Old 11-29-2017, 2:35 PM
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I don't understand how that only works for you. It makes the attack personal instead of arguing a point. Second, by making such statements one can simply turn it to accuse you of the same thing. Accusing others of being unsure sounds a lot like projection which smacks of agenda and makes the discussion pointless.
oh and i am perfectly willing to be wrong (in a discussion about religion).
obviously, at least 2/3 of people on the planet are wrong already.

i believe forum discussions are for discussion, not preaching, although i now realize we might have some gun toting preachers here.



i hope a better understanding of what i was expecting helps.
and i could be wrong about my expectations as well.

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Old 11-29-2017, 2:43 PM
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oh and i am perfectly willing to be wrong (in a discussion about religion).
obviously, at least 2/3 of people on the planet are wrong already.

i believe forum discussions are for discussion, not preaching, although i now realize we might have some gun toting preachers here.



i hope a better understanding of what i was expecting helps.
and i could be wrong about my expectations as well.

Friend. You really need to read this.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=933294

If you are really expecting answers it helps to not be hostile to the people you're addressing. Any and all of us will gladly engage with you. But getting frustrated and lashing out isn't going to help you.
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Old 11-29-2017, 3:19 PM
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Friend. You really need to read this.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=933294

If you are really expecting answers it helps to not be hostile to the people you're addressing. Any and all of us will gladly engage with you. But getting frustrated and lashing out isn't going to help you.
point taken, and again i apologize.

i don't want to pull a franken and try to make excuses, but i wasn't trying to imply that anyone was wrong, but rather that they weren't even offering a real honest personal opinion or testimony, and i lashed out at that, not what i thought they believe.

hopefully it isn't too late to retain my access, but i understand if not.

i grew up catholic, went to church before school every day in grade school. my brother went to seminary (and I studied many of his school books) so i enjoy discussions of faith while i admit to having not received the gift myself.
maybe i want people to argue personally to me, because deep down i want somebody to convince me to go back to the church. (or i am just a d*ck)
i enjoy church, the feeling of community, and i still volunteer at outreach centers, but for me, going to church made me feel hypocritical when i didn't agree with some of the ideas or dogma.
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Old 11-29-2017, 3:48 PM
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so blind people are doomed?
How do blind people enjoy Gods creation, do you think Gods creation ends at the visual, and there is no sensory?
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Originally Posted by theLBC View Post
you make no sense and constantly contradict yourself, much like the bible.
and you still cannot answer a simple question, except by suggesting another reading. weaksauce.
I answered your question using scripture. How is scripture weaksauce? How did Jesus always answer questions? He constantly referred to scripture, is scripture not good enough for you?
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i don't believe in an all powerful god.
i believe that god is love, compassion and charity. when people act with compassion and charity, they demonstrate that god exists.
People can act with charity and still make a mockery of God. Look at Joel Olsteen during the last hurricanes. How is his charity not making a mockery of God?
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here is another question i expect you to dodge. Do Muslims go to heaven if they are decent people, but reject the idea that Christ is our savior?
Funny how i have answered every question you have asked and you call me a dodger, yet you repeatedly avoid answering. sup pot!

*answer*
I don't choose who and who does not go to heaven, but if moslems are following the moon god, or the god of their books, they are worshiping a god who thinks salvation only comes by the sword.

What do you know of islam and have you studied their books?
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Old 11-29-2017, 3:52 PM
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actually, when i ask these questions, i am asking for the forum member's interpretation of the bible, or what they have been taught and what they believe.

i can read and interpret the bible myself, and i believe that answers that only suggest reading a verse or chapter is a dodge by people that are unsure of their own faith and beliefs.
IF you interpret the bible yourself, where are you getting your definition of God from? It is antithetical to what is written, and you seem more combative than anything else.
As mentioned before, if you don't like people answering your questions with scripture, Jesus probably really annoys you with how many times he and his disciples do this.
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