Dillon 650 XL loaders they worth it?

[stilly]

Basically in a nutshell I just got done loading 500+ 44 mag loads on my Lee Classic turret 4 station.

I just switched over to .45 and now I am gonna start loading .45 but I DO NOT want to spend all day loading up .45 ammo. I want to maybe spend an hour or two and walk away with about 500-2000 rounds or close to it. This will be for certain with .40, .380, .308, .223, .45, and 9mm. AND eventaully 7.62x39.

If I have the primers and powder and things look good to go then I just want to crank out the ammo and it takes 15 seconds per round MOVING MEDIUM to not mess up the powder dropper on my Lee.

I was looking REALLY close at the Dillon 650 XL loaders but I would want that upgraded mount, handle etc etc but when I am done with that purchase they are what? Closer to about $1000 ?

Anyways, do they really crank out the ammo or is there a better/cheaper/faster way to make some quality rounds in bulk without spending all day doing it?

The one thing that I did not like was the metal primer tubes. I like the Lee safety priming system but I thought that they had priming strips for the Dillon, Maybe I read wrong, but I want a SAFE progressive if possible. Any info is appreciated. Thanks.

[Cowboy T]

15 seconds on your Lee? Assuming that Lee's a progressive and not a turret (always slower than a progressive) something else is wrong then, because I put out a .38 Special round every 4-5 seconds, not rushing, on my Pro 1000. I'm getting 375 rounds/hour with it, with the Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure.

I haven't used a 650, but I have used a 550. I've also asked some 650 owners about questions like yours with all those cartridges. If you are set on getting a Dillon progressive, then with all those cartridges you want to do, a 550's probably a better bet. Your actual throughput with handgun rounds will be somewere around 400 rounds/hour. I can also tell you that 550's are dead-solid presses, very well built.

Jeff Quinn over at Gunblast.com uses a Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure on his Dillon 550, and he also reports mighty fine results with it.

What's happening with your powder measure? Perhaps we can give you some tips on what to fix so it's happy like mine is.

[lincoln45]

.

I was looking REALLY close at the Dillon 650 XL loaders but I would want that upgraded mount, handle etc etc but when I am done with that purchase they are what? Closer to about $1000 ?

Anyways, do they really crank out the ammo or is there a better/cheaper/faster way to make some quality rounds in bulk without spending all day doing it?

.[/QUOTE]

i love mine i had some growing pains as it was my first progressive....i ordered mine from Brian Enos....very handy web site. i get 100rnds in about 10 minutes

[shooterbill]

I can do 4-500 per hour on my Hornady LNL. I did 750 rounds on my Rockchucker and I said I need a progressive. Good luck sifting through all the blue vs. every other color B.S. See if you can try before you buy.

[RandyD]

I had a Dillon 550 and then upgraded to the 650. Both are quality machines, but the 650 is a lot faster and offers a powder measure check. The 550 is quicker when changing calibers but only by a few minutes.

Regarding priming, I like to reload in stages. I will deprime and size a large lot of brass. Then clean the brass and then prime the brass with a Century 21 primer, which is an exact copy of the Lee Primer except it is made out of metal. Then when I want ammo, I run the sized, and primed cases through the 650 again to insert powder and bullet.

I prefer the above priming system because I personally inspect every primer and can feel if the primer is seated properly. It is practically error proof, whereas I get an occassional primer seated sideways and upside down with the 650.

[stilly]

Originally Posted by Cowboy T

15 seconds on your Lee? Assuming that Lee's a progressive and not a turret (always slower than a progressive) something else is wrong then, because I put out a .38 Special round every 4-5 seconds, not rushing, on my Pro 1000. I'm getting 375 rounds/hour with it, with the Pro Auto-Disk Powder Measure.

I haven't used a 650, but I have used a 550. I've also asked some 650 owners about questions like yours with all those cartridges. If you are set on getting a Dillon progressive, then with all those cartridges you want to do, a 550's probably a better bet. Your actual throughput with handgun rounds will be somewere around 400 rounds/hour. I can also tell you that 550's are dead-solid presses, very well built.

Jeff Quinn over at Gunblast.com uses a Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure on his Dillon 550, and he also reports mighty fine results with it.

What's happening with your powder measure? Perhaps we can give you some tips on what to fix so it's happy like mine is.

My Lee is a Classic Auto indexing 4 station turret, but not a progressive. I dumped the Lee hopper in favor of a Hornady lock n load powder measure with the case activated linkage. I am VERY happy because I like to modify and develop and I like that I can twist a little bit and get a change in powder. The Lee also was not really meant for 44 mag/50 AE and I found that I ran out of charge bar material when working with certain powders. Like, I think it might have maxxed out around 21 grains sometimes. The 44 mag that I ended up doing needed about another grain or two and I did not want to keep trickling powder in, even though I had to get an RCBS trickler because smart reloader makes GARBAGE.

I saw the 550 but I was wanting to get something that would allow me to put out more so I went to the 650XL BUT, I only saw the round count and right now I can crank out about 100-150 rounds in about an hour so moving up to 400+ an hour would be better. I will revisit the Dillon site and have a look again at the 550.

Also, I had issues with the pro auto disk because it liked to fling powder all over the place. It would drop powder all the time and sometimes if I went faster then it would jump the hole and fall out over the edge (the powder). But I ended up putting it away in the end because I did not want to trickle powder into every case and weigh every powder charge on a turret press.

WOULD I use it again, yeah, I might consider it but I REALLY like my hornady. and I especially like that my hornady will go from around a few grains to a LOT of grains...

As for the Hornady LNL, I DID want that at first but Hornady told me that they were gonna stick with that metal primer tube system and I did not like that. I thought that Dillon used something better but I might be wrong, I know it is a Ford Chevy debate with many folks but damn. Maybe I should stick to my gut and go for that LNL AP with an ammo plant addon later on if needed. I just really hate that damn metal primer tube. I KNOW I will make it esplode at least once...

AS for priming. I HAD thought of that quite often. It is one of my debates, to decap and prime alone or not, but when I start doing what the damn machine is SUPPOSED to be doing I feel like I am wasting it and THAT is why it has that feature anyways, so that I do not have to do it...

I currently decap, then clean the brass, then reload it on my Lee by resize/priming, flaring mouth, dropping powder, seating and crimping since I have 4 stations... It just sucks having to pull the lever 4 times for 1 bullet... especially when that bullet is 9 or .380. I have other things I would like to do with my time.

This is gonna evolve into a Dillon xl650 vs Hornady LNL AP thread I can feel it...

[Artsville]

I can run about 1000 rounds of any handgun caliber in about an hour when I have someone assisting with primers and supplies. The 650 rocks once you figure out how it ticks.

Art

[echang72]

if your going to load pistol.. you should look into the SDB from dillon.. but regardless...cant go wrong with dillon [:

[DarkSoul]

With the 650, you should easily be able to run out 800 rounds an hour with pre-prepped brass, that being said, here's the rub- if you have 5 different calibers that you are going to reload, you have a choice,

1. you can either break down the tool head each time you change calibers, and set up the new caliber. This is the least expensive way to do it, but it is very time consuming, figure at least an hour to get it set up and dialed in, and then loading, or

2. You can buy multiple tool heads so you have a complete tool head per caliber. This way, you can change calibers in about 5-10 minutes. This is way faster, but plan on about $200 per complete tool head (tool head, dies, powder check, powder hopper, caliber change plate).

On my 650, I have all my different calibers on their own tool heads, and then a spare block for prep, I just thread in whatever caliber sizing/depriming die I am prepping and run it.

It is an expensive initial setup, but it's very fast, and once you learn the machine, you can hammer through loading.

I have a 550, 650, and a 1050, and they all have their place and their strong points, if you are wanting to load quantity, the 650 is fantastic, if you want overall versatility and ease of setup at the cost of volume, the 550 can't be beat. The 1050 IMO is really only if you plan on doing big volume of a single caliber and rarely break it down. Even if you buy separate tool heads for each caliber for the 1050, you are looking at about $400 per, and still 15-20 minutes to switch over.

[Bill Steele]

One thing that can save you a little money if you end up going with Dillon regardless of model, is to set up your different dies on their own tool head, but only get one powder drop. You move the drop from tool head to tool head as you change calibers as it only takes a minute to do it.

I bought complete quick changes for each caliber (including powder drops), but found I switch drops when changing calibers as one of my drops has a Uniquetek micrometer which allows me to go exactly to a specific weight charge without the normal trial and error of adjust, weigh, repeat, binary search method.

So I would recommend not buying a powder drop for each caliber setup, but buy one only and install a Uniquetek micrometer on it. It is really cool to decide on a given load weight, consult the spreadsheet for that powder, set the micrometer to the exact number and bingo, you have your charge weight exactly.

Oh, and give Brian Enos a call, he will tell you exactly what you need without overselling you anything you don't need, and ship it to you for free to boot. Great guy to deal with.

[El Gato]

Yep...
and buy the case feeder, the powder check, etc....might as well buy it all at once... or it's bleeding by a dozen freight fees...

[bruce381]

""So I would recommend not buying a powder drop for each caliber setup, but buy one only and install a Uniquetek micrometer on it.""

+1 thats what i did

[stilly]

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillon...Comparison.pdf

Yeah, I have one LNL powder dropper with linkage and I do not care to spend another $130 per caliber for such device. The LNL droppers also have different droppers I can get so I might consider that for .380.

I originally had the LNL AP on my christmas list, but I decided that I DO need something and it is gonna be the LNL or the Dillon but after seeing the Dillon I was kinda swaying towards the 650, but the 550 is not bad and now, I see too that I should prolly do all of my reloading on whatever progressive I get. I saw a mention of a .015oal difference on the Lee and I have to agree, I love my little lee, but I have had to adjust the dies a little too much lately to get a 1.600 oal for my .44, I have gone from 1.580 to 1.617 when I measured and I never touched the dies and I swear they were tight... Anyways, I am still looking at them all but one thing that I hate about what I see with Dillon, there are almost NO pictures of the press in its basic form. I had to take a double check to see that I will not really be getting what I see in that pic. It is the little things like that that tend to irk me. I thought that base and cool handle came with but no, those are another $100 if you want the upgrades... >

We will see. I am going to see how fast I can crank out some 200gr 45 with some HP-38 and then revisit the progressive scene. As of now I have the 550, 650, and lnl ap on my christmas list. I doubt I will get one but if I am given one of those for free then I can not complain about price and they are all decent loaders.

On a parting note, Hornady has the cool offer where I can get 500 bullets or so for purchasing a lnl so that is worth something if I have to do it myself.

[Bill Steele]

I think the LnL is a terrific option, especially for someone who loads a lot of calibers.

Perhaps, in the aggregate, the LnL might be a little less reliable than the Dillon offerings, but this impression is based on anecdotal evidence (i.e. the number of problem threads I have seen that get opened on forums like these, guys I know that have had a few glitches with their LnL's, etc.) I think if you did a scientific survey you might just as likely find the LnL is every bit as reliable as the Dillons. Certainly, with the Hornaday support, any problems you do encounter will be addressed quickly.

The downside of the free bullet offer (at least when I last looked at it) is the weight choices are limited (generally to the lightest in each caliber, for instance 185gr XTP is not my first choice in a .45 Auto slug). Another, maybe less obvious, downside to the free bullet offer is I think it may impact resale values. People look at the free bullet offer and knock $100+ off the price of a used unit in their head. It is the only reason I can come up with why Hornaday LnL's depreciate more than a Dillon. Of course, if you are doing a detailed accounting (something I don't recommend), you got the $100 upfront when you bought the LnL.

In the end, I think you will be happy with whichever you choose.

[bruceflinch]

Yes!

[sargenv]

I prefer the 650 without the strong mount (I use a plate of 1/4" steel to bolt it to my bench) and I prefer the ball handle.. the upgraded handle is worthless to me.. I look at the 650 and wonder how people can spend $1000.. The only necessary item for the 650 besides dies, is the case feeder.. If you want convenience, then yes you can buy all the bells and whistles to rack things up, but it wasn't until several years passed that I bought a second die holder for different calibers. I started with 45, then as time went by, I spent money a little at a time to buy setups for calibers that I wanted to load.. after 45, it was 38/357, then 9mm, then 40, then eventually rifle calibers.. no one says you have to buy everything all at once.. You also don't need the bullet holder thing on the left side of the 650.. it's convenient, but so is a shop stool high enough to put your "box of bullets" on..

I recently sent my 650 back to Dillon for a tune up.. for $80 they replaced most of the wear parts and shipped it back to me.. I called it my 250,000 round tune-up It had gone 16 years without a trip back to Dillon so I was due.

[Horton Fenty]

Yes they're worth it.

At first the only accessory I purchased was the 650 only strong mount. I'm glad I got the shorter 650 mount than the 550/650 mount. I bought a case feeder later and was totally satisfied without one until I started loading rifle. Also bought a powder check later.

Quick change tool heads are the only way to go despite the cost, otherwise you just defeat the purpose of buying the thing. $250 is about the cost of an entire new caliber setup if you include a case gauge and a powder check conversion. Enos is the only one that sells powder check conversions by the way, beats the hell out of buying a powder check for every caliber.

[Chief-7700]

I have the XL-650 and really like it.

[glenntuc]

i have dillion 650 and love it, im in moreno valley if you want one to play with

[CEDaytonaRydr]

Another XL 650 guy here! Love it...

[LexLuther]

I have the 650, it was my first press and I like having the powder check station. Don't buy that micrometer powder thing, a $2 "flourett" (sp?) nob from ace hardware will do just fine.

[the86d]

It has been worth it for me, but I reload 9mm, and .223...

I only think it is worth it if you get the case feeder with the XL 650.

My whole setup for 3 toolheads, .223 dies, 9mm dies, cartridge conversion for the second caliber, case feeder, and extra bins (not strongmount, nor bullet tray [as I got extra bins]) ran me about $1,400. I am very happy with it. The ONLY real issue I have had is that when I started reloading I wasn't swagging out the crimp in 5.56 mil brass, and so the press would jump when the primer made it passed the crimp, and Varget kept getting into the shellplate. Because Varget is a bar powder, happens to be the perfect size to fit right inside the rim where the case-head seats...

I am glad I didn't go with a single stage, and I can really crank out some cartridges in QTY.

(I am about 50% of the way to recouping the entire cost in just about a year, based on Walmart Federal 9mm, and Federal .223 100 packs vs reloading.)

[anyracoon]

Started out with a good ole Rockchucker than jumped to a fully loaded 650 back in the 90's. Came across a super deal on a 550 with lots of extra parts and liked it so much for using for load developement for pistols that I scored a good deal and got another 550.

[cowboyup]

Good press, sometimes the primer system can be a pain in the azz. And, like other presses, sometimes all the primers in the tube can and do detonate...amazing to see the hole's in the ceiling / roof from that plastic follower and the primer cups n anvil's.

[cowboyup]

Good press, sometimes the primer system can be a pain in the azz. And, like other presses, sometimes all the primers in the tube can and do detonate...amazing to see the hole's in the ceiling / roof from that plastic follower and the primer cups n anvil's.

[Divernhunter]

You will like the Dillon. I have 2 set up and they are great.

[boomer135]

I have the 650 XL with the high mount, roller handle, bullet tray and the tool kit. Unless your building your own custom bench get the high mount, also makes it easier to access drawers that could be blocked.

I set up a seperate tool head including a powder measure for each caliber. I also have a large and small primer assembly for changes sizes.(honestly it won't take you long to swap from small to large if you don't have 2 separate assembles, maybe 5min). It takes maybe 10 minuted to change calibers on my machine. 45 takes me an hour to load about 500rds, 9mm is 6-700 per hour all depending on my prep. when loading large amounts I use the powder check.

Next will be a automatic case feeder, but once I buy all the calibers I plan to reload,

Currently I only reload .223, .454, 10mm, 45, and 9mm. As thats what I currently shoot the most.

a 650xl with hight mount and roller handle should only run you about $700.00 Plus if your military Dillon offers a 10% discount.

to answer the big question (ITS WORTH EVERY PENNY) its already paid for itself , and I only stared reloading a year ago...I couldn't decide on a Progressive press for awhile. Once I went blue I never turned back. Not to mention EXCELLENT customer service!!!

[onewheelwes]

My 650 is in jail right now. I have too many loads that I want to test/ crono at the range before I unleash the machine. I was amazed at what a "machine" it was for the price. I have only owned it a few months, but I am very impressed. I have spent a bunch of time checking powder in a scale, oal, crimp, how strait you need to set the bullet in the bell, ect. and it does a very consistant job. You can set it up to any of your choices and you pull the handle, and make a bullet. I still love my rockchucker for handloaded rifle cartriges.

[onewheelwes]

Forget that! The 650 is out of jail. I am going to go make a 100 rounds and be back in 10 min. (no case feeder)

[bootcamp]

Stop thinking about it and get the 650xl. Buy once, cry once.

If my brass is prepped, I can do 400-500 rounds an hour of 223.

[Bunsen]

Originally Posted by bruce381

""So I would recommend not buying a powder drop for each caliber setup, but buy one only and install a Uniquetek micrometer on it.""

+1 thats what i did

Now it is +2!

[MIAMIbaseballer]

I love my 650. It is not the cheapest setup in the world but it sure is a great machine. I crank out a round every 3-4 seconds at a medium pace, but then you have to factor in filling the primers. So figure an easy 500+ rds an hour. As for caliber changes, you're looking at $250 (dies- $64, caliber conv- $78, quick change $108 but im sure you already have dies) for each pistol caliber IF you want the quick change setup (so you don't have to adjust and swap dies). The Dillon primers tubes are metal in case you set one off. I don't think you're gonna find a better press than the 650 for what you want to do. Order from Brian Enos so you do not have to pay for shipping and give him a call. He will be able to answer any questions or concerns you have.... Good luck!

[Bobby Hated]

Best progressive press out there for the money!

screw the powder measure. and you can hand feed the cases. but do get the bullet tray. its very convenient.

[bootcamp]

Originally Posted by Bobby Hated

Best progressive press out there for the money!

screw the powder measure. and you can hand feed the cases. but do get the bullet tray. its very convenient.

This is the weirdest reply?

Best progressive press but you say screw the powder measure??

Get a rock chucker if you're handloading for accuracy. This is a BULK reloader with a very consistent powder measure for BULK reloading.

[Horton Fenty]

Originally Posted by Bobby Hated

Best progressive press out there for the money!

screw the powder measure. and you can hand feed the cases. but do get the bullet tray. its very convenient.

That is an odd reply. Screw the powder measure but do get a bullet tray? I don't get it.

[cowboyup]

The dillion powder measures are ok with ball powder,but
Can go +- .5 to .6 tenths on some powders / technique. To much variance to lr prec rifle.

Bullet tray is good cause it allows your hand and bullets to be close when loading.

[Horton Fenty]

Originally Posted by cowboyup

The dillion powder measures are ok with ball powder,but
Can go +- .5 to .6 tenths on some powders / technique. To much variance to lr prec rifle.

Bullet tray is good cause it allows your hand and bullets to be close when loading.

If your seeing, or anyone else, a variation of .5 - .6 gr of powder charge then something is wrong.

[Spaceghost]

Myself and at least one other member found this to be the case with Varget.

Originally Posted by Horton Fenty

If your seeing, or anyone else, a variation of .5 - .6 gr of powder charge then something is wrong.

[klewan]

If you're only going to load a couple of calibers, probably worth it. 12 like I do, no way. Costs too much for each caliber change. But just like people will buy $120,000 Turbo Porsche's for their commute, they'll buy $3,000 Dillion sets. I can't afford the Porsche or Dillion, so I bought a Loadmaster 17 years ago. It works, I'm happy.

Notwithstanding all the mechanically "challenged" . peeps that can't work a zipper and complain about their Loadmaster. The thread a while back about the Dillion owner that had the snap ring pop off his roller handle and he was clueless what to do...

[Horton Fenty]

Originally Posted by Spaceghost

Myself and at least one other member found this to be the case with Varget.

Me too. Varget and Unique so far. Unique was a static thing and Varget was a technique thing.

Not trying to be a blue fan boy. Just saying I thought a 650 was cool when I got it, once I sorted issues and got used to the thing I think it's awesome.