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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California |
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#41
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This
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#42
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People have been arrested for possession of large capacity magazines in the Southern California area. We've defended them and charges get dropped when the DA realizes that simple possession is not illegal.
-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#43
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Thanks, again. JR |
#45
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-Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#46
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I believe that IF you have a legal mag, then it should be legal - problem comes up when you are having to explain to an LEO and WHY did they stop you?? I really see more problems than most people would want. Iam assuiming you have gone to a lot of trouble to get your CCW - why risk loosing it over a pissing match on a mag AND if you are involved in a shooting and have to go to court - you can bet you pay check that the other side is going to make a HUGE deal out of that mag..
not worth the risk |
#47
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Im concerned now with using my standard capacity magazine because I have changed the body and some have pointed out this is not legal. I wish the CA laws were more clear on this. I am trying to follow the law to a T and cannot because of this mess. I guess im not bring that magazine to the range anymore. I dont think losing my permit is worth the extra 5 rounds. Yes those rounds could save my life. But I guess that just means I need to train more on reloading quicker!
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#48
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Don't the police usually "empty their mag" When they fire? Why would a civilian who does the same thing need to worry about reckless endangerment?
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NRA Member The Constitution does not bestow wisdom. It's up to the body politic to be wise. -Patriot All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke I'd much rather go to my grave never needing my gun, than go there wishing I had it. - Phil Dalmolin The Battle of Athens was illegal too. |
#50
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Even in New York City, two officers recently fired only 16 rounds to stop a gunman...9 of the 16 hit bystanders. When stopping a knife-wielder in August, they fired only 12 times. They had hi-cap mags and could have emptied them.....but I digress. "Why would a civilian who does the same thing need to worry about reckless endangerment?" If a law enforcement officer is involved in a shooting, the shooting will be reviewed for line-of-duty and in-policy determination. Usually, they are found acceptable; if not, they can be turned over to the DA for prosecution. When the survivors of the shot individuals sue for wrongful death or violation of civil rights, the law enforcement officer is then covered and indemnified by the agency. This means lawyers and judgement payments come from the agency, not the individual. If you, as John Q. Public, caps somebody on your CCW, you are on your own. First, the local police investigate to determine if your shooting was within policy and "justified". They either arrest you or let you walk. Then the DA of the jurisdiction can review the case and leave it alone or have you arrested and prosecuted. If you empty the mag and spray the locals, you can be tagged with reckless endangerment and a bunch of other stuff. All defense is on your dime. If the local cops and DA let you walk, then the survivors can sue in civil court for "wrongful death". (Can you spell "O.J."?). This is also on your dime. Any findings and penalty assessments (they can't send you to jail) will be decided by a jury of your peers. At this point, it is probably important to be able to show restraint in your use of deadly force. Emptying the mag should be a tort attorney's best friend. But the really BFF is emptying an evil, high-capacity, BANNED magazine, which is no longer available for purchase in this state! (Please, no diatribes about the fairness of the law. It exists and attorneys will use it.) Oh, and why are you on your own? Section 4 of the Standard Application you signed says, in pertinent part: "The licensee is responsible for all liability for, injury to, or death of any person, or damage to any property which may result through any act or omission of either the licensee or the agency that issued the license. In the event any claim, suit, or action is brought against the agency that issued the license, its chief officer or any of its employees, by reason of, or in connection with any such act or omission, the licensee shall defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the agency that issued the license, its chief officer or any of its employees from such claim, suit, or action." So. You are alone out there. Worse, you will be alone when you come back. From a non-attorney who is not dispensing legal advice, I believe it is your right to carry whatever is legal. I also believe it is in your best interests to carry only those things which are readily available to your peers (members of the jury) and to use them sparingly and judiciously "in the defense of yourself and your family." Cheers. |
#51
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The statutes anticipate that parts wear out and these magazines may require maintenance and repair. Clearly, sections 32425(a) and (b) allow the transfer of large-capacity magazines to and from gunsmiths for the purpose of maintenance, repair and modification. The type of work is not constrained or limited by statute. If a magazine can only be repaired by replacement of the body, then that is what the gunsmith would do. If the gunsmith can make that modification, then so can you. You are not manufacturing a magazine. To ensure future success, I would advise the following (would the "innocent until guilty" crowd please look away). It will be to your advantage to keep ready any and all records which show that you repaired the magazine by changing out the body. Keeping the old broken body, or showing that it was destroyed may also be helpful. Retain these documents until such time that your attorney may need them. Cheers, JR And let's not worry too much about whether a "replacement" is technically a "repair", as the entire automotive support industry will crumple. |
#52
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#53
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one of my 3 carries in sac county is a pre barbaric laws and has many 15 rounders .not illegal . although i could understand many police being misinformed and jumping up and down if there was ever a day they had to count past 10 on my mags . if the extremely hopefully never chance i had to use 15 + rounds thats going to be a real nasty day for all involved. Maybe i should carry the 30rounders in glove box now . Im sure the law would have vapors with that
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#54
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My recent experience with G 19 and yes a high capacity magazine in it .
Just outside of Imperial sand dunes I get pulled over by CHP ..No lights on my small utility trailer hauling some motorcycles back to Sac . Rather then dig through my fanny back I hand it to him with pistol and ccw/id in it . Comes back hands me a fix it ticket and fanny back . Go's on to tell me if I'm going to carry that pistol to at least have a round in the chamber .... Last edited by becxltoo984; 02-21-2013 at 11:06 PM.. |
#55
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I'm willing to bet he was an older mature officer, not a wet behind the ears, gung-ho, rookie!
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#56
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Im not an attorney...
With that being said, Here's my playbook If God forbid you or I have to use our Firearm for self defense...When the cavalry arrives, Speak slowly, move even slower, Offer your Identification, CCW permit, and state, " I was in fear for my life" and watch the officer write that down in his little notebook. Then say, " I would like to speak to an attorney before I make any further statements. The end. This includes the shooting of an intruder in my home. Rule #1 DON'T VOLUNTEER INFORMATION TO THE PD WHEN YOU ARE A INVOLVED IN A SHOOTING PRIOR TO CONSULTING WITH AN ATTORNEY. If the PD try's to intimidate you and threaten you with arrest...so be it, keep your mouth shut! oops, a little off topic, but relevant if found to have + 10 round mags in gun you own. Aside from saying good morning to an officer in a coffee shop, speaking to them with out counsel present when the subject of an investigation of any kind is foolish. Edit, I am not implying you remain a total mute, just keep explanation of possession of a + 10 mag succinct and polite. Know the laws regarding such to be able to speak intelligently about it. Last edited by sjb269; 02-22-2013 at 9:12 AM.. Reason: add info |
#57
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First - for two of my CCW guns I own and have only ever owned standard capacity magazines. They were purchased legally and continue to be legal.
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1 Corinthians 2:2 "Orwell was an Optimist" - Cali-Glock "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one." - Mal Reynolds Freedom Week: March 29-April 6, 2019 // Freedom Day: April 23-24, 2020 - Thank you, Judge Benitez! NRA - Endowment Member // CRPA - Life Member (Disclaimer: Everything I write is fiction. I am just here to try out ideas for my to-be-written great-American-novel.) |
#58
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Back to the OP's question....if you legally own the magazines, and your permit doesn't specifically restrict their use, you can use them.
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LASD Retired 1978-2011 NRA Life Member CRPA Life Member NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Shotgun Instructor NRA Range Safety Officer DOJ Certified Instructor Last edited by Ron-Solo; 02-22-2013 at 7:33 PM.. |
#59
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#60
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#62
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Because the Praetorian Guard are held to a different set of laws than the one us mere plebians have to deal with.
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#63
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I hope not I've got at least 5 boxes each of 9mm 45acp 44mag. Bought em cheap when they were declared cop killers
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#65
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'I found them' is one of the 'OMG, did you really say that and expect anyone to believe it?' lines. That reaction does not refute that it happens sometimes, but that narrative is simply not needed. See the Magazine Qs link in my .sig, below.
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ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.” Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs. |
#67
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Pre-Ban Mags
It seems that you can possess and use >10 round mags if you owned them in California prior to 01/01/2000. If you did not, you can neither possess or use them. You cannot, for example, buy, import, or manufacture in California any >10 round mags after 01/01/2000. Doing any of that is a felony.
You could expect that if you are found in possession of >10 round mags you could be suspected and charged for illegal possession. It's not clear how the authorities could prosecute you for that if you contended that you legally possess the mags prior to 01/01/2000. It would be useful to have dated receipts of purchase, but if you don't have them, the burden of proof that you didn't would be on the State. Of course, if you didn't reside in Ca prior to 01/01/2000, the State would be justified in assuming that your possession of the mags is illegal. Also, if the specific mags were clearly manufactured after 01/01/2000, you will be in trouble. Folks have opined about mag "rebuild kits." If you legally possess a >10 round pre-ban mag, you may "rebuild" it. The problem is purchasing new components to convert a 10-round mag to >10 round capacity with these new components. That would clearly be illegal. That's just my take on this. IANAL, but the lawyers among us may wish to comment... |
#69
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“The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal” - Aristotle (384-322BC) |
#70
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P7 M13
One of my carry guns is a HK P7-M13. The gun was discontinued before this silly issue of magazine capacity ever arose. Mine is on my carry permit and there are no commercially available magazines other than the original, factory 13 round magazines. These are what I have and what I carry. I legally possess them and it has not been an issue so far. . .
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#71
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Fixed it for you Librarians sig Link
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NRA Member The Constitution does not bestow wisdom. It's up to the body politic to be wise. -Patriot All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke I'd much rather go to my grave never needing my gun, than go there wishing I had it. - Phil Dalmolin The Battle of Athens was illegal too. |
#72
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My boss has had his LTC for a long time and he's got his gen 2 g21 with his pre ban 13 rnd mags. Never has a problem when renewing his license.
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SO MANY GUNS....never enough money ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ |
#73
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The Penal Code is silent on this, but we discussed all that in January 2013.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...9&postcount=30 JR |
#74
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Oh is it Thursday already?
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/Chris I have a perfect Burning Man attendance record: zero. You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city. Everyone and their mums is packin' round here! Like who? Farmers. Who else? Farmers' mums. |
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