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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
View Poll Results: How much would you pay for Law Enforcement Credentials | |||
$0 I don't want them at any price | 398 | 15.56% | |
$100 | 316 | 12.35% | |
$500 | 748 | 29.24% | |
$1000 | 530 | 20.72% | |
$1500 | 103 | 4.03% | |
$2000 | 211 | 8.25% | |
$5000 | 133 | 5.20% | |
$10000 | 50 | 1.95% | |
$Whatever it takes I'll take out a second mortgage | 69 | 2.70% | |
Voters: 2558. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1
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(operation started) How much would you pay for Valid LEO credentials (issued to you)?
For a summary of this thread please go to www.ccwforall.com
---- Just an update: We incorporated the New Promethean Initiative to pursue this (and other 2A projects), and will be applying for 501c3 status during fiscal 2011. we are not yet a 501c3 organization. If you want to support our efforts, We can accept Paypal donations at: DonateNPI@gmail.com or we can accept checks at: New Promethean Initiative P.O. Box 811353 Los Angeles CA 90081 __________________ Quote:
If you could be legally considered a Law enforcement officer under HR218, and able to carry concealed in any state in the union... how much would it be worth to you? credentials would be valid over 5 year renewal intervals, after 3 renewal periods you would be eligable for 'retirement' credentials.... and background check etc... and all sundry processing fees would be included.. please vote for the maximum which you would actually pay. And be honest. Thank you edit: Added graph of market data. revenue is in $1000's Added text of primary proposal Last edited by AJAX22; 10-31-2011 at 9:36 AM.. |
#2
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Those are to be earned, not bought.
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"America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall." Quote:
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#3
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Um... no... they are NOT earned, they are simply issued, by cities or other governing entities... and in some places it is done with little or no qualification or requirements... CA has some requirements that must be met, but there are other places which do NOT have the same criteria, but still issue credentials which are valid for the purpose of concealed cary under the Law enforcement protection act.
Look, you may disagree with it morally/ethically etc. But it gets you a concealed Cary permit that is valid in any state in the union. INCLUDING CA and NYC. |
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"America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall." Quote:
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Getting a POST 832 certificate takes about 1 week. Last edited by bubbagump; 11-09-2009 at 9:59 AM.. |
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#9
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Go back and start reading at Post #241.
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#10
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Are you sure you even live in California!?
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#11
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Maybe he doesn't live in Orange County.
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#13
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I think you're confusing legal LEO credentials with the job of actually being a peace officer. Ethically I agree being a Peace Officer requires skill and training. Credentials, well....legally...that's another story.
The oddities of California law on this issue received a little sunlight in the media after the infamous Ferrari Enzo crash in Los Angeles involving Stefan Eriksson, who as it turns out was a "Deputy Police Commissioner" of the San Gabriel Valley Transit Authority. Here is a link to an LA Times article (cached because the LA Times archives are down). --Neill
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Earned? Most departments and agencies hire family or friends of current Officers. Head back east, and you'll find it's a lot more of a Family business, then a depiction of the actual community being served.
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Owner of Patriot Apparel - Decals, Vintage Signs, Apparel and More! Ebay Store Link Etsy Store Link |
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The way we need to figure this out is not through some loophole which would be quickly closed by the same legislators who accidentally opened it. That's a lame, dubious short-term solution that would anyway only benefit an elite which could buy their way in (plus, running a municipality is not exactly a picnic). Last edited by a1c; 11-09-2009 at 8:44 AM.. |
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I think I've heard the term 'loophole' bandied about before.... seems to be the mantra of the people who recognize that something is totally legal even if it does not sit with their personal ideology/agenda. Yes the legislature could i(n theory) 'crack down' on this... it would have to occur at a federal level... essentially imposing harsher levels of qualification for consideration under the LEOSA... which would be VERY hard to get the legislature to pass.. since many many states would not meet the new 'qualifications'.... so I don't see that as a overly likely outcome. Let me make this perfectly plain. I am NOT suggesting that we all run out and buy a municipality... that adds a level of complexity that is unnecessary. There are plenty of townships/towns out there who can issue the credentials we want and $$$ talks... particularly to areas with a mean income of around 14k per year.... a cash injection of 10 million to a community of 2500 is a substantial enough bit of cash that they can't easily dismiss the probability. Ok... some people may think its 'dubious' or a 'scam' but the fact of the matter is the law is the law... they wrote it.. they make us follow it... and what is proposed here is LEGAL... and even in a worst case scenario where the opposition rallies the troops and shuts us down we'd get a few years of legal CCW.... which is a few years of keeping our family safe... AND it could easily pave the way for national reciprocity of CCW permits.... Legal is legal.... CCW permits are just for that 1 time in 100 where you get hassled.... and even with one of those you don't always beat the ride... but with valid LEO credentials you WILL beat the rap.... the same was true for all our OLL endevors. Look, I'm not saying this sort of thing is an ideal situation... but we ALREADY have an elite (LEO's) who get privilages that the rest of us are denied. This is simply a broad lowering of the barriers to entry into that protected class (which shouldn't exist in the first place) I dislike that this is nececary to exercise our rights... however, it IS legal... and it DOES allow us to exercise those rights.... Heck, I'd love to run detachable mags in my full featured AR.... but the MMG I have on it is simply the price I have to pay to legally do what I need to have the means to protect my family..... and now that I live and go to school in NYC, I have ZERO recourse or ability to have those means... they all live back in 'free' California... I was originally just looking into this for personal and selfish reasons... but I think it could be a large and significant step forward in the advancement of the 2A in America. |
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January 14, 2009 by DrD Quote:
http://harmonyhealth.wordpress.com/2...w-of-the-land/
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Have a great day "Opposing secession changes the nature of government "from a voluntary one, in which the people are sovereigns, to a despotism where one part of the people are slaves."--New York Journal of Commerce 1/12/61 "[I]t is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery!"--Patrick Henry http://www.state-citizen.org/ |
#19
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The badge is NOT earned. It's not an award, or medal of valor. You pay for it by attending a class and gaining employment...
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+1,000
you want the badge, get the job.
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Most civilization is based on cowardice. It's so easy to civilize by teaching cowardice. You water down the standards which would lead to bravery. You restrain the will. You regulate the appetites. You fence in the horizons. You make a law for every movement. You deny the existence of chaos. You teach even the children to breathe slowly. You tame. People Should Not Be Afraid Of Their Governments, Governments Should Be Afraid Of Their People ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ |
#21
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I don't want the badge or the job, I simply want to be able to CCW. Becoming a reserve officer of sorts is the only way I'll be able to carry in the near future. If the idea offends some, well, I'm sorry but my my desire to carry and take responsibility for my own safety matters more to me than your feelings.
Last edited by berto; 11-16-2009 at 6:09 PM.. |
#23
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cops dont earn there badge, they buy it by going thru cop school. some cops end up earning respect of the public by their actions, others are a disgrace to the badge. has nothing to do with the price.
if cal gunners are able to obtain a badge, depending on how they act will determine if they "earned " it or not. if someone with a badge can carry a gun and is able to be responsible and stop a crime with the gun, then I say they have earned it. there are plenty of cops (a minority, but still a large number) that never ever should be allowed to carry a gun nor a badge, but they buy the education, and get the badge and the right to carry anyway. why should the rest of use not be allowed to carry??? what makes cops so special anyway? far as i am concerend the law that is good for me is good for them. After work hours, the cops should be forced to return there guns for safe kepping at the station, and they should; never be allowed to carry while off duty. as long as I cant carry, no off duty cop should. no one can claim they are in any more danger than say a gas station attendant walking home at night from the late shift. what makes a cops life more important than mine? He can defend himself and family at anytime he pleases, but the rest of us must wait for the police to arrive. disgusting government favoritism. maybe if police chiefs and had the same civil rights violation on them as is put on the rest of us (the denial of the right to carry) we would have fewer anti-gun police chiefs, then maybe we would get more conceled carry permits, or hell, just do away with this conceled carry permit (will NOT be infringed) and allow all to carry, if you screw up and use the gun illegally then let the police take you down for that, not for the fact that you carry. so long as off duty cops have this right that the rest of us dont have, we willl never get resonable conceled carry permits issued. so long as the cops have all the guns, they are happy with the status quo. Off duty cops allowed to carry is a disgusting perversion of our Rights |
#24
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The gas station attendant isn't annoying criminals and building grudges by arresting them and costing them X years of their life. I know from working the Del Mar and Costa Mesa gun shows that there are a LOT of people who recognize me from that; I get folks saying howdy once every other month or so. I can only imagine how it would be for an LEO who's recognized by people who frequently have a grudge. You had some solid points, but this analogy just falls flat on its face here.
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#25
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But every criminal knows that if they harm a hair on the head of a LEO every cop in the country makes it his personal mission to bring them to justice. That is not the case with the gas station attendant. It all kind of evens out, don't you think? Or do you just have a need to be 'special'?
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
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Now, the animal responsible for the Granada Liquor Store shootings (my wife served on the jury for the trial of the bag man in that case - for what it's worth, she found him guilty) was exactly such a man. Although I'm not sure why you think I'd have a need to be special - I don't have a CCW, I'm not an LEO, and the only special gun-related privileges I ever enjoy is occasional review samples of tactical gear.
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Primary author of gunwiki.net - 'like' it on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Gunwiki/242578512591 to see whenever new content gets added! |
#27
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Last edited by RangemasterP226; 01-12-2010 at 9:44 PM.. |
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This has been a silly thread from the get-go and I'm surprised it's lasted this long.
What seems like hate is actually envy; people envious that cops get to carry pretty much anywhere, anytime, as well as the authority cops have over non-cops. People paying for LEO credentials...WTF? .
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Sent from Free America |
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Ajax: Are we awaiting McDonald before moving forward on this? What help to you need if you are indeed moving forward? |
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#31
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a cops life is no more important than mine, so why should they be allowed to carry off duty just because of their job? Im not saying this because i dont like cops, i dont like the fact that they are given advantages for no reason. and i know you can argue that people may recogonize you while you are off duty and you have no way to protect yourself. Well then now you know how it feels for every other normal person in the country on a daily basis. Why should a police officer get to protect themselves off duty because they arrested a gang member but the person that testifies against that person does not? So yes i think they shouldnt be allowed to carry off duty just because they are LEO. And the day that privelage gets taken away will be the day they and everyone else in america gets their right to protect themselves back. Because we all know law makers will never let police officers not be able to protect themselves. |
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I stopped at this because it's absolutely, 100% true.
didn't need to read 81 pages of BS to know this. /end |
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Ignorance is not bliss; there's a reason this thread is 21 pages long. |
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On a separate note, we are looking to put together a talking points prompt sheet for calling agencies and municipalities. As well as putting together a website to point people to for more info. Anyone who wishes to help with the content generated (FAQ, Mission Statement, image generation... etc.) we can use all the help we can get. I'd also like to prepare a list of states and state restrictions which may apply (as well as states which have amenable provisions in the existing law for this type of endeavor) My time is beyond impacted at the moment, so if anyone wants to work on drafts and post them up here for peer review prior to their being uploaded to the new site it would be appreciated. (pm me a copy too) Thank you to everyone who is helping with this. |
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You really need to update your User CP. It's only 21 pages for me. It's still 80 plus posts but a little less frustrating figuring out where you were last if you are interrupted.
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Bless, O Lord, this creature beer, which thou hast deigned to produce from the fat of grain: that it may be a salutary remedy to the human race, and grant through the invocation of thy holy name; that, whoever shall drink it, may gain health in body and peace in soul. Through Christ our Lord. Amen |
#38
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I agree! The credential of LEO has no price on it.
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"Life Is Hard. It's Harder When You're Stupid"-John Wayne! "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder"-Michael Savage! "The Object of Life Is Not To Be On The Side Of The Majority, But To Escape Finding Oneself In The Ranks Of The Insane"-Marcus Aurelius! "Dr. Thomas Sowell Is A National Treasure"-Big Jake! |
#39
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hah. Men earn the title Marine, or Soldier. leo is a civilian. a peer of the populace.
Last edited by hnoppenberger; 03-24-2010 at 9:18 PM.. |
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Capitalist society - EVERYTHING can be bought, whether it is right or wrong is another matter!
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"If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin." -- Charles Darwin NRA Life, CRPA Life, SASS Life, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor & Range Safety Officer, FSC Instructor |
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