Best .300 WM Rifle

[SFgiants105]

I know that my next firearm is going to be a 300 win mag (not in the near future), and probably bolt action..

I plan to go big once I do finally have the funds , so ya'll don't have to remind me about savages or howas.

Any opinions on the following options?:

-Sako 85
-Sako trg (is it that much better than the 85, or is it just a tac stcok?)
-AR-30
-McMillan (home-built); this last one is going to sound tedious, but I was considering buying a cheap r700 sps DM (for the magazine mechanism) and buying the McMillan fluted action and trigger, having them mount the resulting components on one of their stocks, and then having a gunsmith install a Krieger barrel; does this sound feasible?)


Any other suggestions would be really helpful.

(btw, I heard that the blaser r93 has problems with the bolt; if this isn't true , i might consider that too)

[Linkpimp]

My I suggest one of these bad boys..

It's in a 300 win... and you can get it in a (308, 338, etc, etc)..




http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/sr...onversion-kit/

ACCURACY
The SRS achieves superb accuracy in all calibers, because the SRS is built around the core components of accuracy:
1. Match grade (free-floated) barrels
2. High quality match trigger
3. Match grade chambers
4. Solid, return-to-zero, barrel mounting system

QUICK CALIBER CONVERSION
The SRS can quickly convert between the following calibers: 308 WIN, 300 WIN, 338 LM, and 243 WIN. The conversion is simple and takes less than 60 seconds and returns to zero.

Weight: 12 lbs
Barrel Length: 26"
Rate of Twist: 1 in 10
Overall Length: 38"

[SheepDogHog]

If you're planning on going big why not go surgeon?

[pyro3k2]

Originally Posted by SheepDogHog

If you're planning on going big why not go surgeon?

this has my vote

[professionalcoyotehunter]

I believe Sako is made by Browning. Go with an A or X bolt and you wont be disappointed. Also look into the Weatherby Vanguard sub-moa.

[toby]

Originally Posted by professionalcoyotehunter

I believe Sako is made by Browning.

REALLY! OK

[professionalcoyotehunter]

Than why do I have two rifles that say Browning Sako on them?

[professionalcoyotehunter]

I think it is Sako Actions with a Browning barrel but it does say browning sako on the barrel. They are .243s from the 60's.

Here is one but I guess they no longer do this.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=208090356

[toby]

Browning as well as others used re-baged or rebarreld Sako actions to help sales. Sakos have and will always be top notch as is or for custom ventures for those whom know. Before someone say's Remmy. I'm talking non tactical..... Browning used Mauser 98's for many years

[professionalcoyotehunter]

I love my Sako's but I would never trade any of my browning's for one.

[toby]

Originally Posted by professionalcoyotehunter

I love my Sako's but I would never trade any of my browning's for one.

Checking things out. Sako did use the early FN actions the same one Browning used. Sako used them for a short time in the beginning. I have heard that Savage did something with Sako as well. everyone has a brand they hold dear to them and your choice of Browning is well deserved!

[StraightShooter]

What do you want to do with it is the biggest question.

[SFgiants105]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I have not looked into surgeon, how much do they run?

I really like the dt, but they cost 3200 for the chassis alone. I was planning on spending 3000 tops (not counting glass). I need that extra 1500 for a 6-24 illum mil dot.

As far as the purpose of the rifle, I want a long-range competition grade rifle that will take down any land animal. I want to get out past 1000 yards eventually (not for hunting, just targets).

Considering prices, I might just settle for a howa within the near future and get a trg or ar30 in .338 LM later.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I have not looked into surgeon, how much do they run?

I really like the dt, but they cost 3200 for the chassis alone. I was planning on spending 3000 tops (not counting glass). I need that extra 1500 for a 6-24 illum mil dot.

As far as the purpose of the rifle, I want a long-range competition grade rifle that will take down any land animal. I want to get out past 1000 yards eventually (not for hunting, just targets).

Considering prices, I might just settle for a howa within the near future and get a trg or ar30 in .338 LM later.

A Surgeon long action runs about $1400 with a built in rail.

[oni]

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I have not looked into surgeon, how much do they run?

Damn near 5k
Look Here

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

I really like the dt, but they cost 3200 for the chassis alone. I was planning on spending 3000 tops (not counting glass).

Budget is something to put in your first post. Not after people start making recommendations.

Regardless the Surgeon will run you near 5k for a complete rifle from them. The action alone is 1.4k then you will need the rest of the parts and to choose a smith to put it all together for you. May end up around 3-4 or 5k anyway.

At this point its time to start to do your cost / benefit analysis. The DTA SRS may be 3200 but it gives you options other builds wont. The primary one is the ability for a single chassie that can switch to multiple calibers with ease.

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

I need that extra 1500 for a 6-24 illum mil dot.

Why MILDOT? There are several great options out there for reticle's that are MIL based and have better features than MILDOT's

How much night shooting do you plan on doing? If not much then Illumination should be a nice to have on your list and not a deciding factor.

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

As far as the purpose of the rifle, I want a long-range competition grade rifle that will take down any land animal. I want to get out past 1000 yards eventually (not for hunting, just targets).

What type of competition shooting do you want to get into? I haven't seen many .300WM rifles on the line at the Tactical / Practical percision matches I have been to. Mostly .308, .243, .260, 6.5x47L, etc ..

Im not going to tell you want rifle you should or shouldn't get. Im sure there will be plenty of people telling you their opinons on it. Im also not going to argue why you shouldn't get a .300WM.

What I am doing is trying to understand the purpose of the rifle and give you information so you can make your own decision.

Do you reload or are you shooting factory ammo?
Is this your first bolt action?
What is your experience at long range shooting?

[pyro3k2]

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I have not looked into surgeon, how much do they run?

I really like the dt, but they cost 3200 for the chassis alone. I was planning on spending 3000 tops (not counting glass). I need that extra 1500 for a 6-24 illum mil dot.

As far as the purpose of the rifle, I want a long-range competition grade rifle that will take down any land animal. I want to get out past 1000 yards eventually (not for hunting, just targets).

Considering prices, I might just settle for a howa within the near future and get a trg or ar30 in .338 LM later.

well if 3k tops is your limit for just the rifle then the AR-30 in .300wm would be the best option.
1.7k for the rifle
300 for the pre-cut pelcan case Armalite sells
that leave an extra 1k for accessories like bi-pods, extra mags, reloading equipment, or 600-900 for a vortex viper scope. Or you could throw that extra 1k you save towards a premier reticle scope, nightforce, S&B, US optics.

[ScottB]

FN owns Winchester/Browning. Beretta owns Benelli and Sako

Look at the "new" FN Model 70 Winchesters. Made in South Carolina and supposedly some of the nicest ones ever produced. I have Classics as well as a couple pre-64s and I'd like to get my hands on one of the new ones. I also have older Sakos and an M700 for comparison. For my money, the Mauser-based actions are the best. Gunsmiths like the 700 because the design is easy to machine, there are a zillion aftermarket parts and lots of them in circulation. I prefer a rifle that doesn't need customizing or an immediate replacement trigger.

The M70s (and mausers generally) offer CRF, robust extractors, decent stock triggers and (in most cases) safeties that lock the firing pin and bolt independently of the trigger. Examples are Sako, Winchester, FN, CZ, Dakota, Kimber, Weatherby, Rigby, H&H - the list goes on. Military mauser actions are still very desirable for custom built rifles and the highest end customs are modern mauser actions (e.g. Prechtl Mausers). Also, I have yet to see an AR platform in the field except dor plinking or varmints. I doubt I ever will in the context or power ranges you are talking about.

As for your proposed purpose, .300 winmag is a good round but offers little that you can't also get out of a hot .30-06 load. Friends that are die hard members of the .300 mag club are looking at .300 Ultramag or even .30-378 Weatherby for flatter trajectory. At some point bullet mass matters, so if by "any land animal" you mean brown bears, most of the guys I have talked to that actually do it use .338 winmag or better. More than one outfitter has said they like .375 H&H for big bears - which is also the minimum for dangerous game in Africa. If you can afford the hunt, you can afford another rifle. For anything in NA other than big bears, .300 winmag is plenty.

Personally, I don't like to abuse myself like that so I use a .30-06 with Hornady superformance loads. That gets to within a 100 FPS or so of a .300 winmag and the drop difference at 300 yards is only about 1/2" If the shot is much over 300 yards, I figure I just need to be a better hunter and get closer. The vast majority of my shots on game (deer, elk, pronghorn, hog) have been at much less than 200 yards. The misses were mostly over 300 yards. I doubt I'll ever spend the $$ to hunt big bears, let alone the taxidermy that follows, so I don't much worry about being undergunned for them.

[SFgiants105]

Originally Posted by ScottB

Examples are Sako, Winchester, FN, CZ, Dakota, Kimber, Weatherby, Rigby, H&H - the list goes on. Military mauser actions are still very desirable for custom built rifles and the highest end customs are modern mauser actions (e.g. Prechtl Mausers).

I am unaware of which style of actions are on which guns, but I must be looking for a mauser-style since all those companies listed are known for good guns. I might look into model 70s.

Originally Posted by ScottB

Also, I have yet to see an AR platform in the field except dor plinking or varmints. I doubt I ever will in the context or power ranges you are talking about.

Lol.
It's a proper bolt action (made by Armalite, hence the "AR").




I figure that 300 wm is a good all around lr cartridge for a few reasons:

-Wolf makes ammo ($13.99/20rd)
-Big 5 stocks the ammo
-accurate out to 1000yd
-have read that it does in fact out-perform 30-06
-have seen brown bear kills on youtube with 300 (if it decides to charge, I have 8rds of 00 in my semi)

Btw, I almost thought that I would settle on a surgeon when I saw them, but then saw that they were not $1400, but actually $4200.

[ScottB]

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

I am unaware of which style of actions are on which guns, but I must be looking for a mauser-style since all those companies listed are known for good guns. I might look into model 70s.



Lol.
It's a proper bolt action (made by Armalite, hence the "AR").


I figure that 300 wm is a good all around lr cartridge for a few reasons:

-Wolf makes ammo ($13.99/20rd)
-Big 5 stocks the ammo
-accurate out to 1000yd
-have read that it does in fact out-perform 30-06
-have seen brown bear kills on youtube with 300 (if it decides to charge, I have 8rds of 00 in my semi)

Btw, I almost thought that I would settle on a surgeon when I saw them, but then saw that they were not $1400, but actually $4200.

You are sounding like you want a hunting rifle, but most your points of reference appear to be tactical. Two different worlds, two completely different mindsets.

Bolt or otherwise, that tactical configuration looks like a pain in the butt to hump around through brush all day. Lots of things to snag branches, etc. That kind of brake is completely worthless on a .300. You also don't need a drop mag, let alone one that holds half a box of ammo, since you are looking to shoot 1-3 rounds tops on a trip. I have also heard some complaints about the DM rems. I was ready to convert my 7mag 700 as part of a larger project, but decided against it. A hinged floorplate is all you need and that's really just for unloading.

You mentioned getting an action rebarreled. That's an option. Find a beater M70 Classic and put a Kreiger, Douglas or a PacNor or other good barrel on it. Send them the action and they will install the barrel or work with a 'smith and have the action trued first and the trigger worked to what you want or replaced if necessary and put a stock on it with pillar bedding or a bedding block. You should be able to stay well under $3K - if not under under $2K

For what you have to spend, you should be able to get a hell of good a hunting rifle, maybe not a piece of fine art, but one that has had all the right action work, a good barrel and stock (wood or synthetic). As someone said recently, "there are a lot more 1/2 MOA rifles out there than 1/2 MOA shooters". 1,000 yards is a bench rest game. I know a handful of hunters that are competent on game out to 400 yards. I know a bunch who think they are. Hunting is the art of locating game and then getting close. Some guys confuse hunting with being an artillery gunner.

.300 WinMag is a good all around cartridge. That's why it's also one of the most common calibers out there 1) everyone stocks it, 2) You won't want to put Wolf or any other cheap ammo through a good hunting rifle. You won't be shooting that many rounds, so ammo cost won't be a big deal. A .300 is a belted magnum and is a hotter round than a .30-06. My comment was that a hot factory load with progressive powders like Hornady Superformance (aka Light Magnum) will nearly equal the performance of a standard .300 WinMag load with a lot less powder and recoil. At 300+ yards, the performance difference is negligible. Check the ballistic charts. Trust me on this. I have been shooting the stuff for years.

If you are hunting in brown bear territory (AK), unless you are a resident, you have a licensed guide with you by law. You won't have your "shottie" and up close and personal, .300 winmag is way more powerful anyway. If you feel insecure and don't mind carrying the extra weight, take a .44mag - and know how to keep 6 rounds inside of 6" while simultaneously crapping in your pants and running backwards. Realistically, it ain't gonna happen so I wouldn't waste a lot of time worrying about it.

Scopes. You mentioned 6 x24. For a big game rifle, I think you would be way overscoped. Something like 3.5x10 is good 3.5 to 4 on the low end, 9-12 (max) on the long end. Think about how big an objective you need. I have a couple 50mm's that necessarily raises the height of the ocular lens and given the height of the comb, its hard for me to get a good cheek weld. My 40mm's are much more comfortable, though they gather less light. Spend the extra money on quality - including the rings and bases. For the $1,500 you mentioned, you can get a Leupold VXIII or Mark4 or a mid-range Zeiss plus some good Tally or Conetrol (my fav) rings and bases. If you have money left over from the rifle, you can look at higher end Zeiss or NightForce. I don't think you can touch Schmidt & Bender, Kahles or Swarovski with your budget. There are some reticule options in hunting scopes that include illumination and ranging grids, but I and most guys I know have rangefinder binos with ballistic calculators in them. Mine are Leica 8x42. I'll probably go to 10x42's next time. the Zeiss are very nice as are the Swaros if you can afford them.

[OutlawDon]

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

That's a sweet looking AR30. I like it!

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=30M338

Pick your poison...


And some reviews...

http://www.gunblast.com/ArmaLite_AR-30.htm

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun...malite_121206/

[SFgiants105]

Again, thanks ya'll for the expertise.

I do realize that having a rifle suitable for both tactical and hunting applications is somewhat unreasonable, so I am in fact going to settle on a 300 wm or 30-06 for a hunting rifle (the howa 1500 comes with a scope for $600; check it out:http://www.snipercentral.com/howa.htm ).

I figure I will buy my tactical scope and mount it on my ar15 to practice shooting and calculations until I have enough money for a 338 LM. I like sightron, but they don't have any illum reticles (again not totally necessary). I think I'm getting a Leupold, maybe a NF (I wish I had enough for a U.S. Optics).

And I don't actually plan to go bear hunting, but I would like to have the peace of mind that if I stumbled onto one, I could defend myself. (I guess I'll just try to get a 500 S&W sidearm for that.)

Btw, if any of you guys have ballistic comparison charts for 30-06 handloads vs 300 win mag loads (I plan to hand load either way), that would really help make my decision.

[OutlawDon]

Originally Posted by SFgiants105

Btw, if any of you guys have ballistic comparison charts for 30-06 handloads vs 300 win mag loads (I plan to hand load either way), that would really help make my decision.

30-06
http://www.snipercentral.com/3006.htm

300 Win Mag
http://www.snipercentral.com/300.htm

[tiger222]

The best 300WM rifle is the AI AWM.
The best affordable factory rifle in 300WM is the Steyr SSG 04.
The Steyr is an excellent rifle, I wish the stock was beefier, and if it fit into an AICS or simular, I'd be all over it (yet again!)

The 300WM is also known as the 7.62x67.3mm NATO as used buy the German Bundeswehr.

It is a great cartridge.

That said one should not overlook the 260rem as an off the shelf cartridge.... but 308 always wins that game.

[Hoop]

If you have the money for a TRG I would get it. That is an incredible rifle.

AR-30? I'd rather get a factory remington 700 heavy barrel and stick it in a custom stock.

[SFgiants105]

It's settled then.

I will get a Howa 300 WM in the coming months (that chart really helped, OutlawDon)
Then a TRG 338 LM within a few years (thanks for the input Hoop).

I do need advice on a scope, if you guys have any ideas. Keep in mind that eventually, it will end up on my .338.


Tell me what you guys think of these:

Does anyone have opinions about the tactical milling reticle (as opposed to the std. mil-dot) on this scope?
http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-...fle-scope.html

Would 10x be enough for 1000+ yds?
http://www.opticsplanet.net/sightron...-ret-siii.html

I think I like the NP-R1 reticle on this one
http://www.opticsplanet.net/nightfor...iflescope.html

And last one
http://www.opticsplanet.net/atn-thor...iwsthor3x.html





...
Just kidding

[jtzshooters]

Also try the Savage 110 Ba , my buddy has one & that thing is awsome .
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA

[ScottB]

Howa is a good rifle - the Weatherby Vanguard uses that action. I think you will be happy with it and it will serve your purpose well. A couple things, a lot of times these sale packages feature a laminated stock and/or a bull barrel. Both add significant weight to a rifle. A hunting rifle scoped and loaded shouldn't weigh more than about 9 lbs. Less is more until the recoil bites.

Now start working on getting some tags for next year

[Hoop]

If you want a hunting rifle buy a hunting rifle, if you want a tactical rifle buy a tactical rifle.

Re-barreling a 700? A friend of mine has a 700 SPS varmint, he took it out of the factory stock and put it into an HS off another 700, it shoots 1/2" groups from a rest with 168 FGMM. I have seen better groups from factory 700 5R models. So if the 300 win mag models shoot similarly I don't see why you'd want to rebarrel it (you will most likely want a brake though).

You could find yourself a heavy barreled 700 in 300 win (600-1000$ depending), a bell & carlson medalist stock ~450$ (similar functionality to the TRG stock), and then spend for a new trigger, muzzle brake, magazine assembly etc. You'd probably end around 2k once you count taxes, fees, shipping, etc. If you want to spend a little extra you could get an AICS stock with magazine for ~850. When you consider that the AICS stock comes with a detachable mag for that price, and the detachable mag setups will run for 250-400? it is not a bad deal imo.

That would leave you with leftover money for a hunting rifle and optics. SPS stainless 700's go for 600 and they are stainless + synthetic which is what you want for a hunting rifle.

Also, I know all the cool kids have a 338 lapua, but until you are shooting really, really long range I don't see the need to spend the money. 300 win gives you plenty of power and a wide selection of bullets, brass, and powders all of which are easy to find and not a ton of money.

Just my thoughts, your money your choice. If you can afford the TRG by all means buy it, but you aren't going to hunt with it. It's a target rifle.

[Linkpimp]

Well for what it worth OP I love my DTA and does shoot under 1 moa all day long, as for me. lol I'm lucking to keep it at 1 hahaa.. I've been reloading for the 300 win for a while now and found that my boy really likes shooting the 169 amax here he is banging steel at Angeles





I like the 208gr amax and find I get great accuracy out of them, (when I do my part) Regardless you should know that, one pound of powder will only get you around 92 rounds. Its also a belted mag case, so find the right dies too.

As for scope, you pretty much get what you pay for. The Leupold mark 4 is a GREAT scope, I’ve shot them out to 1000 yards and can be found on the hide for around $700 all day long.

I really, really like my Nightforce NXS. You can update the reticles add on a zero stop, bllaa blaa, bllaaa for under 2k. But the best scope for the money the SB hands down for just under 3k. Again your going to get what you pay for.. buy and cry once is my moto..