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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 02-02-2010, 6:40 AM
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Default LWRC, ADDAX, OR POF?

Hey folks,

just out of curiosity, if yall had a choice between an LWRC, Addax, or a POF rifle...which would you choose...and why?

They are all are totally sick in my opinion, but I would like to hear YOUR opinions.

And as a side note: me and a buddy were talking about side-mounted charging handles. And I told him I remembered seeing a custom-made one for the SHOT Show. (I believe MAGPUL requested someone to make one for them). What are your opinions on these puppies?

Personally, I am not sold on them...but there's a possibility I can be if gently persuaded, with tenderness, rationalism, cold hard facts, and humility.

What do yall think?

Just trying to stir some thought and get the juices flowing.

In Christ: Raymond
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2010, 6:45 AM
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Mine is a pretty basic opinion. I hear they are all good but Addax is the ***t. Plus, I believe, they are a Calguns sponsor. I would give my left nut for an Addax GPU.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2010, 7:01 AM
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Hmmmmm...

left testical = approximately $1,800.

You might be able to fund one if you do an internet search and look around hard enough.

In Christ: Raymond
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2010, 7:05 AM
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Addax makes killer GPUs!! And support a CG sponsor!

They do have a proper side-charging upper right now. Charges on the left and ejects on the right, so if you are a righty shooter, it would be an awesome upper to have.
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2010, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondMillbrae View Post
Hmmmmm...

left testical = approximately $1,800.

You might be able to fund one if you do an internet search and look around hard enough.

In Christ: Raymond
Haha. Do you think Addax will do a strait trade?
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2010, 7:38 AM
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Default LWRC

I have owned 4 LWRC's... My two 16 M6A2 worked flawlessly. I ordered a 14.7 that had issues with the barrel... I worked out a deal with there customer service... (AWSOME CS) And we put an 18 SPR Barrel on it instead.

So I have one of the only M6A2 18 in production... Its a nail driver according to LWRC and I can testify it is SICK! The most accurate, flawless running rifle I have ever owned.
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2010, 7:43 AM
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ADDAX is the one you are looking for. Post a pick when you get it!
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Old 02-02-2010, 7:50 AM
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Default LWRC, ADDAX, OR POF?

I have a POF 415-16-MRR-223 RECON Great gun a little front heavy but most piston guns are. If I could do it again I would get the POF 415-16-MRR-223 carbine(lighter shouter rail).The POF comes with a lot of extras. The only one with an ambi bolt release and roller cam pin, ERGO grips. KNS anti walk pins, Ambi selector switch, OH and Norgon ambi mag release. SHHHHHH got to like that.

If your set on a piston gun. I can highly recommend the
LMT : CQB MRP Defender Model Piston 16. Dosent have all the extras but a really great shooter. IT also allows you to do a quick swap out on the barrel to 12" or the 6.8 SPC round.
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2010, 8:03 AM
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I was happy with the accuracy I got from last weeks precision rifle at Chabot using my LWRC M6A3 with Trijicon 1-4x. I got the required 10 hits at 200 yards on 6" plates using 12 shots total. This is the rifle I use when accuracy is the name of the game.
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Old 02-02-2010, 9:01 AM
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If I had to chose a piston, I'd buy another LWRCI.
I currently have a M6A2 with 4XTA31F ACOG. At 550 yards I get first round hits on the RAMs at Sac Valley Shooting Center. As long as I do my part the rifle can repeat this over and over again.
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  #11  
Old 02-02-2010, 9:07 AM
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Get all of them. don't discriminate.
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2010, 9:44 AM
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+1 for pof p415 16. Simpler piston system. Reliable with a wide range of ammo including the cheap stuff. Contains lots of overlooked upgrades like a fluted nitride barrel, gisselle trigger, roller cam pin, ambi controls, np3 coated bolt, etc. These niceties make it one of the best values in the more expensive piston market. I have an lwrc m6a2 also. Great rifle but i ended up having to spend more to upgrade it to get it to the level I wanted. Lwrc spends alot more time marketing their rifles so they have a better rep, pof seems to be leading with its designs and other manufacturers like lwrc and others are following their lead.
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2010, 12:22 PM
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Chris made my upper and couldnt be any happier with it. I vote Addax.
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benkank View Post
+1 for pof p415 16. Simpler piston system. Reliable with a wide range of ammo including the cheap stuff. Contains lots of overlooked upgrades like a fluted nitride barrel, gisselle trigger, roller cam pin, ambi controls, np3 coated bolt, etc. These niceties make it one of the best values in the more expensive piston market. I have an lwrc m6a2 also. Great rifle but i ended up having to spend more to upgrade it to get it to the level I wanted. Lwrc spends alot more time marketing their rifles so they have a better rep, pof seems to be leading with its designs and other manufacturers like lwrc and others are following their lead.


Addax gpu are more simple in construction and parts. Also it's better as far as rail and handguard options go. The pof system is too big and requires a raise rail system. No offense by POF isnt on the top of my list when it comes to gpu with all the options that are out there now.
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2010, 1:19 PM
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I'd choose the PWS system offered by Addax for the reason that it is the simplest system out there. Less parts, just a couple more than a DI and can still be understood how it works by a child. I am not a "piston" guy but Chris is a good guy and has always provided me with great service. Here is a pic of the piston system, looks very similiar to an AK: http://secure.stormfront-tactical.co...S-DC16_L_1.jpg

The latest news from POF is the newer customers are not happy. A lot of new customers are dissatisfied with them.

Side chargers are MUCH better than the regular uppers. Just my opinion... from someone who uses one:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...76/ar15005.jpg
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  #16  
Old 02-02-2010, 1:33 PM
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I have an LWRC and would love to get another. That said, Addax has that ATAC that I've been saving for. Met them at SHOT and they're great folks.
POF... What to say other than their CS and QA has been spotty at times.
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  #17  
Old 02-02-2010, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JockItch View Post
I have a POF 415-16-MRR-223 RECON Great gun a little front heavy but most piston guns are. If I could do it again I would get the POF 415-16-MRR-223 carbine(lighter shouter rail).The POF comes with a lot of extras. The only one with an ambi bolt release and roller cam pin, ERGO grips. KNS anti walk pins, Ambi selector switch, OH and Norgon ambi mag release. SHHHHHH got to like that.

If your set on a piston gun. I can highly recommend the
LMT : CQB MRP Defender Model Piston 16. Dosent have all the extras but a really great shooter. IT also allows you to do a quick swap out on the barrel to 12" or the 6.8 SPC round.
Norgon ambi mag release = not legal in CA with a bullet button

Is your POF a featureless build?

Also, you know that you can't even own the 12" barrel for the LMT MRP if you have an LMT MRP. Right?
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  #18  
Old 02-02-2010, 3:12 PM
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  #19  
Old 02-02-2010, 4:46 PM
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  #20  
Old 02-02-2010, 5:02 PM
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I'm biased towards an ADDAX gpu since i own one. But i would also like to get a side charging handle. I think it would be easier to correct malfunctions with the charging handle on the side of the weapon, so the charging handle does not get in the way.
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  #21  
Old 02-02-2010, 7:21 PM
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I just sold an LWRCi M6A3 that I liked a lot.

I have an Addax GPU in 6.8 with a side charger. It runs great. But if it were my only rifle, I would NOT get an AR with a side charger. They aren't really designed from the ground up for a side charger. The position of the bolt release, for example, has your fingers positioned so the bolt will cut your finger tip off when it springs forward if you are not careful!
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  #22  
Old 02-02-2010, 7:28 PM
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Why would the charging handle be locked back if it isn't recipricating? There is nothing forcing the charging handle back and you aren't hand cycling. Either way, that is one of the benefits of the extended bolt catches.
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  #23  
Old 02-02-2010, 8:39 PM
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Addax or LWRCI

Chris is a great guy and deserves the business. Builds an excellent riifle, too.
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  #24  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh3239 View Post
Why would the charging handle be locked back if it isn't recipricating? There is nothing forcing the charging handle back and you aren't hand cycling. Either way, that is one of the benefits of the extended bolt catches.
Good point Josh, and I would like to expand on this a little further.

All one has to do is pull the charging handle back, lock the bolt, and push the charging handle forward since it is non-reciprocating.

Then insert a loaded magazine and release the bolt.

If this is done, then there is no issue of the charging handle hitting and pinching your thumb, since it will already be in the forward most position, and not flying forward with the bolt.

Also, this operation only needs to occur when locking back the bolt to insert the first magazine.

After that, the charging handle will stay in the forward position 100% of the time under normal operation.

If the charging handle has to be manipulated to clear a jam, or lock the bolt back to clear out a bad magazine, the same rule applies.

Just pull the charging handle back, lock the bolt, and you can easily push the charging handle forward.

Just in case, we have been shipping a modified bolt catch with each of our uppers, where we cut down and polish the top of the bolt catch so it will allow much better clearance and reduces the chances of pinching in cases where the user does forget to push the charging handle forward before releasing the bolt.

We are working on an extended bolt release solution for our side charging uppers.

Thanks,
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  #25  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:10 PM
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Addax or LWRCI

Chris is a great guy and deserves the business. Builds an excellent riifle, too.
Thanks Plinker.

We do our best.
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  #26  
Old 02-02-2010, 11:25 PM
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What Chris describes is exactly right and Addax does provide a modified bolt catch that is needed for the clearance of the side charging handle. I should have been more specific in the potential problem I described: it will only happen if the (non-reciprocating) side charger is not pushed forward after charging the bolt. You can envision that happening during a malfunction under stress. But you only do this once! It didn't happen to me but a friend (honest!)

You can also see the reverse happening when manipulating the bolt back while trying to lock the bolt. There's a lot of activity happening right around the bolt catch.

An extended bolt release, like a Magpul BAD, solves this potential problem, and of course, improves the overall ergonomics.

Back to the original topic, I would highly recommend the Addax GPU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addax View Post
Good point Josh, and I would like to expand on this a little further.

All one has to do is pull the charging handle back, lock the bolt, and push the charging handle forward since it is non-reciprocating.

Then insert a loaded magazine and release the bolt.

If this is done, then there is no issue of the charging handle hitting and pinching your thumb, since it will already be in the forward most position, and not flying forward with the bolt.

Also, this operation only needs to occur when locking back the bolt to insert the first magazine.

After that, the charging handle will stay in the forward position 100% of the time under normal operation.

If the charging handle has to be manipulated to clear a jam, or lock the bolt back to clear out a bad magazine, the same rule applies.

Just pull the charging handle back, lock the bolt, and you can easily push the charging handle forward.

Just in case, we have been shipping a modified bolt catch with each of our uppers, where we cut down and polish the top of the bolt catch so it will allow much better clearance and reduces the chances of pinching in cases where the user does forget to push the charging handle forward before releasing the bolt.

We are working on an extended bolt release solution for our side charging uppers.

Thanks,
Chris
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  #27  
Old 02-03-2010, 6:33 AM
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Prior to the SHOT Show, I didn't really see any reason to own a piston system. My figuring was the military, law enforcement, and me had been using DI systems for years and I didn't have any problems. Why spend the extra money?

Then I stopped and talked to Chris Addax at his booth. He sold me on his system and now I just need to find a few bucks and get one.

I liked his explanation of his system having a longer piston that increases reliability and having less parts. Honestly, it was a lot for me to take in so the rest of the crowd can convince you better than me.

I just know Chris sold me on one and when the rest of this thread easily leans towards a majority response of Addax, I think that is the way to go.

Chris I will be hitting you up probably mid month! Don't forget I still owe you.
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  #28  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
Prior to the SHOT Show, I didn't really see any reason to own a piston system. My figuring was the military, law enforcement, and me had been using DI systems for years and I didn't have any problems. Why spend the extra money?

Then I stopped and talked to Chris Addax at his booth. He sold me on his system and now I just need to find a few bucks and get one.

I liked his explanation of his system having a longer piston that increases reliability and having less parts. Honestly, it was a lot for me to take in so the rest of the crowd can convince you better than me.

I just know Chris sold me on one and when the rest of this thread easily leans towards a majority response of Addax, I think that is the way to go.

Chris I will be hitting you up probably mid month! Don't forget I still owe you.
Thanks for the Good Word Wes, and it was great seeing you guys at the show.

Chris
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  #29  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:55 AM
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i'm planning on an Addax piston upper too...someday

ADDAX ATAC MK-1 (16" 5.56 1:7 TWIST HAMMER FORGED BARREL & ADDAX ENHANCED CHROME BCG)
http://www.adxtactical.com/store/pc/...idcategory=172

the one above looks sweeeeeet
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  #30  
Old 02-03-2010, 11:22 AM
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I have a POF. I ran it at the Magpul course last weekend and I had 3 failure to feeds -- all mag related as far as I can tell (swapped mags after 1st day and stopped having them). I did have one double feed the third day.

I agree that with the POF you "get more," for the money in terms of features than the LWRC, but if I were doing it again I'd probably buy the LWRC.

I haven't shot / handled an Addax, though I have experience with Melonite QPQ and it is amazing stuff (similar but marginally superior to Np3 in my book).

That said, my next upper will be a KAC SR-15 E3 gas gun.
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:22 PM
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I have a POF. I ran it at the Magpul course last weekend and I had 3 failure to feeds -- all mag related as far as I can tell (swapped mags after 1st day and stopped having them). I did have one double feed the third day.

I agree that with the POF you "get more," for the money in terms of features than the LWRC, but if I were doing it again I'd probably buy the LWRC.

I haven't shot / handled an Addax, though I have experience with Melonite QPQ and it is amazing stuff (similar but marginally superior to Np3 in my book).

That said, my next upper will be a KAC SR-15 E3 gas gun.
Great choice. I don't think there's a better AR upper right now.

I wish piston makers would just ditch the AR upper and carrier and build the system from scratch. I understand why they continue to use them (cheaper and more parts commonality), but some have started already to ditch the BCG. The bolt/barrel extension are non-optimal for a GP, too, but starting with the upper and BC would be a huge move in the right direction. You could build in the side charging, square the carrier, even swap for an internal spring system to ditch the receiver extension.......
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  #32  
Old 02-03-2010, 12:47 PM
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Addax and LWRC will be my picks. However, I take Addax first not just because they are CG supporters, but I like to give more support to our local (or in-state) businesses.
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  #33  
Old 02-03-2010, 1:27 PM
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JeffW,

when you say your failure to feeds were "mag related"...what did you mean?

What actually happened?

And secondly, what type of mags were you using - USGI, MagPul, etc...?

In Christ: Raymond
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  #34  
Old 02-03-2010, 1:57 PM
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When I'm ready to move to a piston system, I'll be going Addax.
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Old 02-03-2010, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplinker View Post
I wish piston makers would just ditch the AR upper and carrier and build the system from scratch.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!

There is a reason EVERY OTHER gas piston based system on the PLANET has a set of rails for the bolt to move on.

I think it would be really cool if someone would just make a Sig 556 upper conversion for the AR. It wouldn't be too hard to adapt that system, and you could use the exact same lower. And you could have an AR with a folding stock that way.
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Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
--Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria, "On Crimes and Punishment"
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