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  #41  
Old 12-31-2019, 1:21 PM
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Bummer... It actually makes me think that submitting stuff to OAL is just a formality, and they're not actually defenders of the Administrative Procedures Act, or the process itself. Kind of like the CPUC, they're just there as a face to an endless rubber stamping process...

Last edited by RoundEye; 12-31-2019 at 2:03 PM..
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  #42  
Old 01-02-2020, 9:49 AM
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  #43  
Old 01-03-2020, 2:25 AM
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Post Let's Protest

Say we refuse to pay. See if they can make money then. I got enough guns to last awhile.
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  #44  
Old 01-03-2020, 2:30 AM
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Originally Posted by LuckyGuy View Post
Say we refuse to pay. See if they can make money then. I got enough guns to last awhile.
? Refuse to pay who? If you or others refuse to pay the FFL then the transaction will never finish. If the FFLs refuse to pay CA DOJ they go out of business..
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  #45  
Old 01-03-2020, 6:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
? Refuse to pay who? If you or others refuse to pay the FFL then the transaction will never finish. If the FFLs refuse to pay CA DOJ they go out of business..
I think he is saying to refuse to pay by not buying anything or doing any transfers.

Not everyone is willing to do that, but it would make the anti-gun people happy.

Reduce their income means that they will need to increase the fees even more.
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  #46  
Old 01-13-2020, 6:49 PM
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I have a basic question or two about these increased fees:

Given that the Left/Dems are all about equal rights, wouldn't an increase in these fees unfairly discriminate against the 'lower class' from purchasing a firearm?
Doesn't that fly in the face of what the Left constantly pushes regarding the 'haves and have nots'?

These increased fees are unfair to those of lower income status and should be repealed. Those increases put unfair strain on the lower income people and families and may be preventing them from an equitable way to defend themselves...
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  #47  
Old 01-13-2020, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFlash View Post
I have a basic question or two about these increased fees:

Given that the Left/Dems are all about equal rights, wouldn't an increase in these fees unfairly discriminate against the 'lower class' from purchasing a firearm?
Doesn't that fly in the face of what the Left constantly pushes regarding the 'haves and have nots'?

These increased fees are unfair to those of lower income status and should be repealed. Those increases put unfair strain on the lower income people and families and may be preventing them from an equitable way to defend themselves...

A good set of questions and comment. But linear logic is not at issue here. Instead, situational logic applies and is tailored to fit the circumstances at will.

This same situational logic also applies to your toll/FastTrack lanes and many other issues where fees negatively effecting poor people are the sacrifices for the greater good of achieving political goals and uniformity.
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  #48  
Old 01-13-2020, 9:57 PM
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ARFrog is correct.

IMHO, "situational logic" equates perfectly with the opportunity for hypocrisy. And when has the left ever shied away from hypocrisy ...... which is more (and certainly not less) of their way of doing business.
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  #49  
Old 01-15-2020, 12:12 AM
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I just read the thread and I think the main point i seem to be hearing is that people, not FFLs, need to stop using FFLs for PPT transfers. the money never enters the system and people buy and sell among themselves like in the old days. Keep a bill of sale and maybe a DL copy for any gun you sell. are more guns going to be bought by criminals, ex-felons, etc ? Probably at the start but your option is to be forced to feed this growing monster that is breaking down all the time and not being held accountable for it's errors or time delays. if you want to see this whole DOJ system implode just a year is all it would take. if a cop asked me for a gun I sold first he has to come with a search warrant and then much to my surprise that gun was stolen somehow. I as the seller have the bill of sale and copy of the driver's license that I do not have to turn over to the cop but I can use to contact the buyer an tell him to get things cleaned up. there are a lot of ways to circumvent this stupid DROS/CFARS idiot filled system. I am not say do it but i heard people are already dropping out and the resistance is starting.
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  #50  
Old 01-15-2020, 7:00 AM
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Originally Posted by warbird View Post
I just read the thread and I think the main point i seem to be hearing is that people, not FFLs, need to stop using FFLs for PPT transfers. the money never enters the system and people buy and sell among themselves like in the old days. Keep a bill of sale and maybe a DL copy for any gun you sell. are more guns going to be bought by criminals, ex-felons, etc ? Probably at the start but your option is to be forced to feed this growing monster that is breaking down all the time and not being held accountable for it's errors or time delays. if you want to see this whole DOJ system implode just a year is all it would take. if a cop asked me for a gun I sold first he has to come with a search warrant and then much to my surprise that gun was stolen somehow. I as the seller have the bill of sale and copy of the driver's license that I do not have to turn over to the cop but I can use to contact the buyer an tell him to get things cleaned up. there are a lot of ways to circumvent this stupid DROS/CFARS idiot filled system. I am not say do it but i heard people are already dropping out and the resistance is starting.
Uh... I don't think the PPT#s would make the DROS system crumble..
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  #51  
Old 01-15-2020, 8:46 AM
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Was there a law written several years ago, maybe 10 years, freezing the DROS fees? The DOJ then added a safety and complicance check fee, $6.00 total to the DROS fee to go around the new law.
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  #52  
Old 01-15-2020, 9:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird View Post
I just read the thread and I think the main point i seem to be hearing is that people, not FFLs, need to stop using FFLs for PPT transfers. the money never enters the system and people buy and sell among themselves like in the old days. Keep a bill of sale and maybe a DL copy for any gun you sell. are more guns going to be bought by criminals, ex-felons, etc ? Probably at the start but your option is to be forced to feed this growing monster that is breaking down all the time and not being held accountable for it's errors or time delays. if you want to see this whole DOJ system implode just a year is all it would take. if a cop asked me for a gun I sold first he has to come with a search warrant and then much to my surprise that gun was stolen somehow. I as the seller have the bill of sale and copy of the driver's license that I do not have to turn over to the cop but I can use to contact the buyer an tell him to get things cleaned up. there are a lot of ways to circumvent this stupid DROS/CFARS idiot filled system. I am not say do it but i heard people are already dropping out and the resistance is starting.
Sounds like a whole bunch of things you could be prosecuted for, namely:
1. Conspiracy
2. 26500a PC. PPT
3. Failing to report lost or stolen firearm
and probably more if a case was to be made.
BTW, a peace officer does not need a "search warrant" to ask a question.
and if you were to lie to him that could be another potential charge.
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  #53  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warbird View Post
I just read the thread and I think the main point i seem to be hearing is that people, not FFLs, need to stop using FFLs for PPT transfers. the money never enters the system and people buy and sell among themselves like in the old days. Keep a bill of sale and maybe a DL copy for any gun you sell. are more guns going to be bought by criminals, ex-felons, etc ? Probably at the start but your option is to be forced to feed this growing monster that is breaking down all the time and not being held accountable for it's errors or time delays. if you want to see this whole DOJ system implode just a year is all it would take. if a cop asked me for a gun I sold first he has to come with a search warrant and then much to my surprise that gun was stolen somehow. I as the seller have the bill of sale and copy of the driver's license that I do not have to turn over to the cop but I can use to contact the buyer an tell him to get things cleaned up. there are a lot of ways to circumvent this stupid DROS/CFARS idiot filled system. I am not say do it but i heard people are already dropping out and the resistance is starting.
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  #54  
Old 01-15-2020, 4:45 PM
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warbird - your stance or suggestions are not wrong. 2A = freedom period. But this is CA we are all salves of CA. Roll the dice if you want to I have no objections. But the hammer comes down hard tho if you don’t follow CA’s laws tho. Roll’em if you feel like it. Just FYI LEO’s is reading your posts too!
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  #55  
Old 01-16-2020, 7:40 AM
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What are the fees for a gun shipped from out of state?

A local FFL told me $45 transfer, $37.19 and another $15.

The last one I had shipped to a different LGS didn't charge an additional $15. I don't think anything has changed as far as what they can/have to charge because that was after the new year so was the new FFL mistaken about this additional $15? I understand he can just charge whatever he wants but he specifically said both figures separately, not just $60 for the transfer fee.

There is no sales takes involved as it is a replacement from a manufacturer.
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  #56  
Old 01-16-2020, 7:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Donny1 View Post
What are the fees for a gun shipped from out of state?

A local FFL told me $45 transfer, $37.19 and another $15.

The last one I had shipped to a different LGS didn't charge an additional $15. I don't think anything has changed as far as what they can/have to charge because that was after the new year so was the new FFL mistaken about this additional $15? I understand he can just charge whatever he wants but he specifically said both figures separately, not just $60 for the transfer fee.

There is no sales takes involved as it is a replacement from a manufacturer.
What did he say the $15 fee was for? Unless he said it's part of DROS he can charge it as you noted. I can only think he mentioned it separate from the transfer fee for his own internal accounting reason and to possibly advertise the lower $45 transfer fee.
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  #57  
Old 01-16-2020, 8:18 AM
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So is $47.19 the total DROS fees dealers are charging including the $10 they used to charge us?
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  #58  
Old 01-16-2020, 9:08 AM
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Originally Posted by clrems77 View Post
So is $47.19 the total DROS fees dealers are charging including the $10 they used to charge us?
$37.19 is the total DROS fee, $10 is the transfer fee during a PPT.
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  #59  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
$37.19 is the total DROS fee, $10 is the transfer fee during a PPT.
So dealers make $0 dros on an initial sale compared to the $10 we used to previously?
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  #60  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by clrems77 View Post
So dealers make $0 dros on an initial sale compared to the $10 we used to previously?
I'm not sure what you're asking or saying.

Dealers NEVER make money on DROS. It's a state pass through fee.

Typically if a dealer sells a firearm they charge:
$x on firearm
$y on DROS

If they are smart they make money on $x and are not selling it at cost. $y is constant.

If a dealer does a transfer (non-PPT) typically they charge:
$z in transfer fees
$y on DROS
$a (some tack on additional fees)

Again, $z and maybe $a is where they make money. $y is a constant

If a dealer does a PPT they should only be charging:
$10 transfer fee
$y on DROS

Again $y is a constant.

I have no idea what you're asking/saying.

Last year $y = $25. Starting 1/1/2020 $y = $37.19
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  #61  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post


If a dealer does a PPT they should only be charging:
$10 transfer fee
$y on DROS

Again $y is a constant.

I have no idea what you're asking/saying.

Last year $y = $25. Starting 1/1/2020 $y = $37.19
Per firearm
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  #62  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Per firearm
Correct, my post is assuming a single firearm for all my examples.
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  #63  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:37 AM
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Correct, my post is assuming a single firearm for all my examples.
I know. Just pointing it out for non FFL's who may get the wrong idea when they go into a store to do multiple PPT transactions
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