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  #1  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:05 AM
Usmc0844spare Usmc0844spare is offline
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Default Bedding scope rings - Why?

So over the last couple days, I bedded a couple sets of scope rings.

Really just for something to tinker on.... was bored and seemed like a nice simple "can't hurt!" project. Honestly, I think I just like the smell of JB Weld.

But why did I do it? What is the rationale for bedding (or on the other end of the spectrum, lapping) scope rings? Even with unbedded rings, the scope ain't going anywhere with the ring screws torqued down reasonably (I use 10 inch pounds).
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:08 AM
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:18 AM
Usmc0844spare Usmc0844spare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUTCH 7.62 View Post
Yes, there is ample opportunity for debate here.... I added in a bonus debate topic (torque values for scope rings).
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:08 PM
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Bedding the receiver mount or rail makes sense since there is usually a significant space between rail and receiver.

Considering decent scope rings are fairly well machined to be concentric, it leaves very little "space' for JB Weld or other epoxies. A certain thickness of the material is necessary for adhesion or shear/compression strength.

You are probably better off just dusting the scope body with rosin...Of course someone will come along and debate that bedding the rings is a benefit.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
Bedding the receiver mount or rail makes sense since there is usually a significant space between rail and receiver.

Considering decent scope rings are fairly well machined to be concentric, it leaves very little "space' for JB Weld or other epoxies. A certain thickness of the material is necessary for adhesion or shear/compression strength.

You are probably better off just dusting the scope body with rosin...Of course someone will come along and debate that bedding the rings is a benefit.
Maybe here is another way to pose the question... can you convert cheapo rings to "OK to decent" with bedding?

One set I bedded probably really didn't need it. But the other set (super cheap Amazon stuff) probably benefited since, now really looking at the rings for the first time, had a sort of hourglass profile to them at the bottom... not much contact between the rings and the scope really... so now, having taken care of that, are my $15 Monstrum Tactical rings all fixed?
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Old 01-14-2020, 1:15 PM
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Jonesing for that White Oak barrel are we? Tinkering to take your mind off it?

Please don't skimp on good rings. Look at Warn? LaRue? etc...

People will report in on what they suggest I'm sure.
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Old 01-14-2020, 1:25 PM
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Heck, I probably haven't had to lap (much less bed) a set of rings in 10 years easily. Modern rings,mounts and rails are a lot better than the old days.
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Old 01-14-2020, 1:34 PM
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I think pressure and twist on the optical assembly are the concerns. As stated in other posts, however, machining has improved over the years so maybe not such a big deal. Still, those seeking to squeeze the last ounce out of their weapon may want to take everything as far as they can.
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Old 01-14-2020, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeuerFrei View Post
Jonesing for that White Oak barrel are we? Tinkering to take your mind off it?

Please don't skimp on good rings. Look at Warn? LaRue? etc...

People will report in on what they suggest I'm sure.
LOL.... FWIW the crap cheapo rings are on my 10/22, which was perking right along with them regardless of bedding.

For the AR I am using a better one piece cantilever mount. I won't risk incurring the wrath of the purists by stating the brand, but suffice it to say it rhymes with "Bimary Barms".
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Old 01-14-2020, 1:45 PM
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once you lap a set of rings, even more costly ones, you will understand why it is a good idea.
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Old 01-14-2020, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
Maybe here is another way to pose the question... can you convert cheapo rings to "OK to decent" with bedding?

One set I bedded probably really didn't need it. But the other set (super cheap Amazon stuff) probably benefited since, now really looking at the rings for the first time, had a sort of hourglass profile to them at the bottom... not much contact between the rings and the scope really... so now, having taken care of that, are my $15 Monstrum Tactical rings all fixed?
I don’t think it would hurt, but there is more to consider.

I find it’s the hardware, recoil lug, clamping surfaces to rail/receiver, general quality/machining, and the metals also play a large role in the performance and perceived quality.
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Old 01-14-2020, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
I don’t think it would hurt, but there is more to consider.

I find it’s the hardware, recoil lug, clamping surfaces to rail/receiver, general quality/machining, and the metals also play a large role in the performance and perceived quality.
I think something I honed in on, which is probably an issue on the cheapos, is when the rings are not parallel with each other and/or are not perpendicular to the long axis of the rifle. I can see that putting a lot of stress on the scope, if not corrected with bedding.
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Old 01-14-2020, 4:34 PM
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I can only imagine bedding one of those ring sets that have bushings in them. I wouldn't use one of those at any cost.

Then consider how closely a normal ring is machined to the diameter of the scope you are installing; only an extremely out of alignment set would have any benefit of bedding.

Lapping, on the other hand is always a good idea. Even for the best sets of rings. It just makes them more trued. And I have never seen a set of rings that are 100% in alignment from the factory. But I've never owned a Bobro.
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Old 01-14-2020, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
once you lap a set of rings, even more costly ones, you will understand why it is a good idea.
^^^THAT^^^

I've had quality rings properly mounted. With less than 50% contact, NOT GOOD.

I bed bases, I lap rings, I bed rings, I Loc-tite screws. I in essence, remove all possible doubt of any optic moving in relation to the receiver. Same reason that if I plan on keeping a rifle, and/or hunting with it. It gets bedded to stock before I ever fire it.
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Old 01-14-2020, 9:27 PM
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Old 01-14-2020, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
once you lap a set of rings, even more costly ones, you will understand why it is a good idea.
I've lapped a bunch of rings and it was a total waste of time. Turns out all of them were fine before I started lapping.
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Old 01-15-2020, 4:52 AM
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What most are missing is while the rings are very good the scope may not be. Shooters can put there scope in V-Bloks and check for runout or you can bed the rings to ensure there is no stress even if the tube is straight.
Sand the bottom half of the ring alot as metal removal is very minimal with sandpaper.
Coat the scope tube with kiwi shoe wax and bed the bottom half of the ring with JB Weld.
Use vinegar on a Q-tip to remove the extra epoxy that drips out and let cure overnight.
It gives you a stress free scope created by a crooked base bad rings or a bent scope tube.
Put your gun in a good rest aimed at your target in the morning and check it a couple hours later and you will see that as the sun comes up your point of aim will shift.
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Old 01-15-2020, 4:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
What most are missing is while the rings are very good the scope may not be. Shooters can put there scope in V-Bloks and check for runout or you can bed the rings to ensure there is no stress even if the tube is straight.
Sand the bottom half of the ring alot as metal removal is very minimal with sandpaper.
Coat the scope tube with kiwi shoe wax and bed the bottom half of the ring with JB Weld.
Use vinegar on a Q-tip to remove the extra epoxy that drips out and let cure overnight.
It gives you a stress free scope created by a crooked base bad rings or a bent scope tube.
Put your gun in a good rest aimed at your target in the morning and check it a couple hours later and you will see that as the sun comes up your point of aim will shift.

Thanks. A very interesting point and you are right ... something you most likely would not consider.
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Old 01-15-2020, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
What most are missing is while the rings are very good the scope may not be. Shooters can put there scope in V-Bloks and check for runout or you can bed the rings to ensure there is no stress even if the tube is straight.
Sand the bottom half of the ring alot as metal removal is very minimal with sandpaper.
Coat the scope tube with kiwi shoe wax and bed the bottom half of the ring with JB Weld.
Use vinegar on a Q-tip to remove the extra epoxy that drips out and let cure overnight.
It gives you a stress free scope created by a crooked base bad rings or a bent scope tube.
Put your gun in a good rest aimed at your target in the morning and check it a couple hours later and you will see that as the sun comes up your point of aim will shift.
Yes, that is what I did... also tape off the parts of the rings you DON'T want JB Weld on... and as I ALMOST found out the hard way, be careful if you have rings where the bottom half of the rings are actually MORE than 1/2 the circumference of the scope... you can mechanically lock in the scope...

Also I don't leave the scope in there overnight, just long enough to get about 80% cured then pop it out.... then you can cut/scrape off the excess squeeze out pretty easily.
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Old 01-15-2020, 9:28 AM
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You need to ask yourself, from the first place, why would you buy the rings that requires lapping?

These days, if the rings requires the lapping, you have to question for other flaws and its entire quality.

Spent thousands of dollars setting up for rifle and scopes and skimp on the rings would not be a wise move.

Had some time to kill? Now that's a different story, though.
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Old 01-15-2020, 9:52 AM
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gpark09--I have rings that are top quality and cost $400. They benefitted from being lapped. I have also lapped Leupold, Talley, Weaver, Nightforce and others. Most of which would be considered quality rings.
Unless you have lapped those rings you THINK are near perfect you will never know 1) if they are and 2) just how wrong your statement is.
Every set of rings will benefit from lapping to one degree or another. Is it absolute necessary---no. Can it be useful/helpful ---Yes
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:22 AM
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A friend helped me put new Leupold rings on my Leupold VX3 4.5-14x40 scope a couple of weeks ago. He had the mandrel and jeweler's rouge to lap them. These were not high-end steel rings, and it was obvious where metal was removed. They are now nice and smooth. We then torqued them according to the specs from Leupold. So far, so good.

The rifle is a Savage M10, .223 Rem. The scope mounts were supplied by Savage, torqued and Loctited at the factory (The rifle came with a Nikon 3-9x40 scope). It's a nice shooter, when I do my part.
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Old 01-15-2020, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpark09 View Post
You need to ask yourself, from the first place, why would you buy the rings that requires lapping?

These days, if the rings requires the lapping, you have to question for other flaws and its entire quality.

Spent thousands of dollars setting up for rifle and scopes and skimp on the rings would not be a wise move.

Had some time to kill? Now that's a different story, though.
Now to jump from the land of unrealistic blissful optimism into the land of reality.

A typical ONE PC base setup includes (7) separate components. Reciever - Base - 2 lower - 2 upper rings - Scope. Which become (8) components with 2 pc bases like I prefer for hunting rifles. Each of those components ADD to the "tolerance stack". Nothing is perfect.

Adding 10 to 20 minutes to lap rings during a "PROPER" scope mounting procedure. Assures that ALL of those other minute, tolerance variations don't influence how solid and stress free the final mounting is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divernhunter View Post
gpark09--I have rings that are top quality and cost $400. They benefitted from being lapped. I have also lapped Leupold, Talley, Weaver, Nightforce and. Most of which would be considered quality rings.
Unless you have lapped those rings you THINK are near perfect you will never know 1) if they are and 2) just how wrong your statement is.
Every set of rings will benefit from lapping to one degree or another. Is it absolute necessary---no. Can it be useful/helpful ---Yes
^^^^^VOICE OF REASON AND EXPERIENCE^^^^^
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Old 01-16-2020, 8:38 PM
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pacrat---Thank you. I tried to word it as PC as I could.
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