Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Rimfire Firearms
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-08-2019, 3:39 PM
'ol shooter's Avatar
'ol shooter 'ol shooter is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,634
iTrader: 89 / 100%
Default S&W M&P 15-22 product alert

I saw this posted over on Rim Fire Central, thought the word should be spread. Apparently some 15-22 bolts are shallow in the bolt recess, possibly causing a slam-fire situation. Here's the link to the S&W site:

https://www.smith-wesson.com/mp15-22...r-safety-alert

I have 1,000's of rounds through mine, so not all will be affected, worth checking though.
__________________

Bob B.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-08-2019, 4:06 PM
chomorro chomorro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 590
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
I saw this posted over on Rim Fire Central, thought the word should be spread. Apparently some 15-22 bolts are shallow in the bolt recess, possibly causing a slam-fire situation. Here's the link to the S&W site:



https://www.smith-wesson.com/mp15-22...r-safety-alert



I have 1,000's of rounds through mine, so not all will be affected, worth checking though.
Havent had any problems with mine I would assume it would have shown by now? Could be wrong

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:14 PM
ARFrog's Avatar
ARFrog ARFrog is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Northern Calif - East Bay area
Posts: 1,240
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the heads up 'ol shooter.

Read through the materials and ordered a free S&W M&P 15-22 bolt inspection gauge at:

https://store.smith-wesson.com/m-p-1...spection-gauge

Haven't had any problems personally but will see....

I wonder if this is the same occurrence (out of battery discharge) that caused the probibition at Appleseed about 9/2016?
__________________


ARFrog
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:26 PM
chomorro chomorro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 590
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
Thanks for the heads up 'ol shooter.

Read through the materials and ordered a free S&W M&P 15-22 bolt inspection gauge at:

https://store.smith-wesson.com/m-p-1...spection-gauge

Haven't had any problems personally but will see....

I wonder if this is the same occurrence (out of battery discharge) that caused the probibition at Appleseed about 9/2016?
Thanks ordered one too. Hopefully they give instructions on what and how to check.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:33 PM
ARFrog's Avatar
ARFrog ARFrog is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Northern Calif - East Bay area
Posts: 1,240
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chomorro View Post
Thanks ordered one too. Hopefully they give instructions on what and how to check.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Regarding instructions, go to the original post for the consumer alert in post #1 above. Towards the bottom of the linked page there is a "download inspection manual" link and a "view inspection video" link. It appears the gauge is placed on the end of the bolt when removed from the rifle upper to see if it rests high or low, which determines if there is a problem requiring the bolt to be returned to S&W M&P.
__________________


ARFrog
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-09-2019, 6:43 AM
mnichols's Avatar
mnichols mnichols is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 2,626
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
....
I wonder if this is the same occurrence (out of battery discharge) that caused the probibition at Appleseed about 9/2016?
That is one of the problems that led to the ban. Others being firing with safeties on, firing on trigger reset, extractors flying out, hammer and trigger pins walking out, and going full auto without touching the trigger.

https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=50312.0
__________________
“A man’s rights rest in three boxes. The ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box.” Frederick Douglass
ActiveJunky sign-up referral link: https://www.activejunky.com/invite/132380
Mr.Rebates sign-up referral link: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=1034188
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-09-2019, 6:50 AM
mnichols's Avatar
mnichols mnichols is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Escondido, CA
Posts: 2,626
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomshek
I got a question about the M&P 15-22 still being banned at Appleseed. The timing was fortuitous as I’d just been digging deeper on it and found some additional info on why that probably won’t change.

While other .22’s have had their share of random issues the M&P 15-22 has had a lot of verified serious safety issues that convinced the Appleseed Oversight Committee (AOC) to take the action they did to ban it.

Here’s a quick rundown of the problems…
1- Out of battery discharges. Lots of .22 rifles can fire out of battery if circumstances are just right but the M&P 15-22 has an excessively large number of occasions of this happening at Appleseeds. That large number of occurrences suggests an issue that goes beyond the usual problems of a blowback .22LR action’s vulnerabilities.

In one incident a participant was injured when the M&P 15-22 beside her fired out of battery and fragments of the case penetrated deeply enough into her arm to require minor surgery to remove it.
(Safety concerns are one reason I’m a fan of rotating firing lines vs. packing the lines with people inches from each other.)

Here’s a YouTube video where a person shows it will fire when the bolt is a dime’s thickness out of battery. Most .22 designs prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin when the bolt moves back that far.
https://youtu.be/gRi_J0BP35w

Here are a number of other videos Appleseed has compiled of occasions that made their way to YouTube about M&P 15-22s firing out of battery.
https://youtu.be/rVfNN4dzx6k
https://youtu.be/szAz5RVNXPw
https://youtu.be/KwM6AxFthcY

2- Firing with the safety on safe. A number of cases of the rifle firing with the safety on in unmodified rifles (all factory OEM parts) suggests a lot of out of spec parts or improper fire control group hole spacing.
https://youtu.be/QvTFlNPEPso

3- Hammer and trigger pins walking out. The AR-15 trigger and hammer pins are designed to be retained by a J spring in the middle of the hammer (hammer pin) and the legs of the hammer spring (trigger pin). The springs engage grooves machined in the pins so that both pins are trapped by spring tension.

There have been multiple reports of runaway M&P 15-22s where they fire full auto without the finger touching the trigger. The cause has been traced back to hammer or trigger pins walking out of their holes in the receiver. That allows the hammer or trigger to tip and move freely without the trigger or disconnector stopping it.

This would suggest that the M&P 15-22 pins and springs are not engaging properly creating an extremely unsafe condition. You can imagine the fun of a rifle emptying it’s 30 round magazine when you chamber a round in whatever direction the barrel happens to be pointing at that moment.
https://youtu.be/iJ50bNgFntg

As you know anecdotal stories is not the same thing as data but enough individual events begin to tell a story of a serious problem with the M&P 15-22. After reading all these stories and watching the videos I'm convinced Appleseed did the right thing.

Based on S&W’s ducking of the issue the ban is expected to remain in place. As long as their attitude is “Problem? What problem?” no progress can be made. If that changes Appleseed will let us know.
https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index....seen#msg364637
__________________
“A man’s rights rest in three boxes. The ballot-box, the jury-box, and the cartridge-box.” Frederick Douglass
ActiveJunky sign-up referral link: https://www.activejunky.com/invite/132380
Mr.Rebates sign-up referral link: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=1034188
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-09-2019, 7:37 AM
Rizzo's Avatar
Rizzo Rizzo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Shasta County
Posts: 444
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Thanks for posting this OP.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-09-2019, 11:03 AM
jimbo74's Avatar
jimbo74 jimbo74 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,892
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

glad I built an AR15 with a 22lr upper instead now
__________________
"It is currently CA legal to modify a double-action revolver into a single-action revolver and modify a single-action revolver into a double-action revolver.

CA DOJ BOF stance on modifying handguns only applies to dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistols and dimensionally compliant break-open single-shot pistols.
^It does not apply to revolvers, manually operated repeating pistols, and semi-auto pistols." ~~ Quiet
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-09-2019, 12:09 PM
LMan57's Avatar
LMan57 LMan57 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Riverside County
Posts: 817
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the heads-up.
__________________
It's better to have and not need than to need and not have"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:52 AM
Teachu2's Avatar
Teachu2 Teachu2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 830
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
Thanks for the heads up 'ol shooter.

Read through the materials and ordered a free S&W M&P 15-22 bolt inspection gauge at:

https://store.smith-wesson.com/m-p-1...spection-gauge
Thanks for posting that. I just ordered one, have two 15-22s that have never exhibited symptoms, but I'll check anyway. Worth every dime at that price!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-10-2019, 1:48 PM
CaliTrav CaliTrav is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 340
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default M&P 15-22 Safety Alert

In case someone hasn't seen this Safety Alert yet. I didn't see this posted, if it has been posted mods can delete. I didn't know about this Safety Alert until I seen it on the internet and I have one of these. I already ordered the gauge to check my bolt.

I see I wasn't the first to post this. Thanks mods for moving it.

http://concealednation.org/2019/03/s...-mp15-22-line/

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Last edited by CaliTrav; 03-10-2019 at 4:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-12-2019, 4:05 PM
Bullets&Whitewalls Bullets&Whitewalls is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Woodland Ca
Posts: 2,329
iTrader: 80 / 100%
Default

I got one coming Thanks for posting this. I don't remember this happening while dropping the bolt but my son says it did slam fire once while shooting in between shots. He said it happened with Grandpa lol. I wonder why they just don't tell you what the depth should measure? I know not everyone has the tools but I do and can save them the expense. We will see what they say, regardless good on them for offering the free gauge to check.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-15-2019, 10:04 AM
volosong's Avatar
volosong volosong is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: was Antelope Valley, now North Idaho
Posts: 155
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
I saw this posted over on Rim Fire Central, thought the word should be spread. Apparently some 15-22 bolts are shallow in the bolt recess, possibly causing a slam-fire situation...
Thank you, 'ol shooter. You've done a good deed. Gauge ordered.
__________________


Deut 6:5
---
"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is 'never get involved in a land war in Asia'".
- Vizzini during his 'battle of wits' with the Man in Black
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-15-2019, 4:46 PM
gunnlover's Avatar
gunnlover gunnlover is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,122
iTrader: 55 / 100%
Default

I have experienced this on my first gen, early model 15-22. I bought mine in early 2010 I think. When they very first came out.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-21-2019, 9:18 AM
Megalomegalodon's Avatar
Megalomegalodon Megalomegalodon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 798
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Just ordered my gauge. Have had the rifle for about a year and have yet to shoot it.
__________________
NRA Endowment Member

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-22-2019, 5:24 PM
chomorro chomorro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 590
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Here's what they send you

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-22-2019, 9:04 PM
ARFrog's Avatar
ARFrog ARFrog is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Northern Calif - East Bay area
Posts: 1,240
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Got my free bolt gauge from S&W today - about 14 days from order to receipt.

The ledge that the bolt gauge sits on is not large so it is a rather inexact science to put it in place and keep it level. Additionally, it appears that my gauge reads slightly high with the labeled/stamped side up and slightly less high on the non labeled side.

image.jpg

Either way I guess I will be contacting S&W to see about sending them the bolt even though I have had no previous issues.
__________________


ARFrog
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-22-2019, 9:15 PM
Teachu2's Avatar
Teachu2 Teachu2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 830
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teachu2 View Post
Thanks for posting that. I just ordered one, have two 15-22s that have never exhibited symptoms, but I'll check anyway. Worth every dime at that price!
Showed up in today's mail. Will try it out tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:41 AM
ARFrog's Avatar
ARFrog ARFrog is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Northern Calif - East Bay area
Posts: 1,240
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

S&W seems to be taking their own sweet time on this product advisory:

- 2 weeks to receive gauge from request

- 19 days and still counting for prepaid mail/instructions for sending bolt in for checking/replacement

- who knows how long the replacement will take in the future

??? not sure if this industry standard but it is inconvenient
__________________


ARFrog
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:47 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy