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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#121
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I like the Fix NICS attachment because it gives Senators like Jones a reason other than CCR to vote ye on this bill. |
#122
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On the other hand, maybe he already knows that he will not be re-elected regardless of how he votes. Last edited by BAJ475; 12-13-2017 at 1:50 PM.. Reason: Additional comment |
#123
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The concern is he knows that no matter what he won't be in the Senate for long. A politician with no future can be a dangerous thing - or a good thing, depending on where one sits.
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#124
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very true. good point.
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#125
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Non Resident NEED's to be added.
Blue states will punish their citizens by no longer granting CCW, this is a given. Also financially, some states expiration is 5 years at 1/4 of the cost. This would force California into revising their policies in order to instead take that revenue. |
#126
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https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...enate-bill/446
Hearings on this bill have begun in the Senate Judiciary Cmte "Bottom line" refresher: this Senate nat'l recip bill will NOT allow CAians CCW in CA with a non-CA CCW. But it will help us in that it will allow MILLIONS of out-of-state CCWers (and ConCarriers) to CC in CA every year when they vacation, business trip, visit friends & family in CA (in add'n to ~100k CAians who have CA CCWs). That will negate anti sheriffs contention that they restrict CCWs to "keep guns off of our streets." That eventually may make them and Sacto politicos to stop opposing Shall Issue. But until then, if it becomes law, it will give CA BGs "a reason to fear" middle aged, overweight white guys wearing Panama hats, Hawaiian shirts and shorts with sandals, with cameras hanging around their necks and "hip packs" .... (Or the same wearing a "photographer's vest.")
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 03-17-2018 at 10:02 AM.. |
#127
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Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk |
#128
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#129
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The Cornyn version works more like a driver's license, with each state setting its own requirements for issuance to its citizens. Yeah, it sucks for you guys along the urban coast, but is more likely to pass. And as of the last time a count was made, there were not enough votes to overcome a filibuster and get a vote on the floor. |
#131
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NYC Will ‘Pay the Price’ of National Concealed Carry Law, Warns Vance
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 06-08-2018 at 9:54 AM.. |
#132
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Ah.. the blood in the streets hyperbole. News flash for those guys... Dallas, Houston, Salt Lake, Vegas.. all densely populated (granted not the rats nest level of Manhattan), and all with plenty of tourists. Their cops seem to manage just fine.
Of course... NY also has some of the worst instances of police corruption and abuse, so there certainly is some valid fear, for the out of towners that is. Just need to run their statements through the ol' truth translator - “If this bill does pass, it’s going to be a law enforcement nightmare,” Palladino said. “If just 10 percent of tourists bring their guns with them, we’re going to have a big problem.” should be translated as " If this bill does pass we are going to have tens out thousands of New Yorkers wondering why people from other states get to protect themselves and we can't." |
#133
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Just wanted to throw this out there.. Seems that most all "rational"objections to CCW reciprocity are based on "training"...or the lack thereof. Here's an idea...how about a training course that goes with the purchase of a firearm.. Say 4 hours...with some range time. As a CCW permit holder for 25+ years...I would like to know that my fellow citizens carrying firearms actually know how to use them. The present system allows in certain states a person knowing nothing about firearms to purchase a pistol, and immediately start walking around in public...knowing NOTHING of the proper and safe operation of the pistol.. Funding? Hmm...perhaps a nominal $20, and firearm manufacturers can kick in the rest, with the NRA providing instructors...and is good going forward. Next firearm you want to buy, present your card.. Ok, get your flamethrowers out and roast me...'cause it's just my 2 pfennigs worth...
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#134
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excellent ideas, I have also long posed that the free market would come up with solutions. Also, how about ammo and accessory discounts for those who have taken (xyz) safety or range training, etc etc etc. Go capitalism. As an aside, have you heard about gunfights in the streets in the 10+ states that have constitutional carry??? No.
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#135
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Ja, no "gunfights"....but I would assert that it only takes one to ruin it for everyone else. And if we can take steps to prevent just that one...we will have made the whole "constitutional carry" issue much more acceptable.Now, here we go, comparing guns to cars...yes, I know driving is a privilege...and guns are a right, but the concept is the same...safety. Would you let a person walk into the showroom, buy a car, and try to drive away in it with no training? I'd suggest presenting the firearms safety class in the same light...Drivers licenses are not so much about ID as they are about insuring that the motoring public is at least somewhat competent behind the wheel...
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#136
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#137
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I think I'd rather side with a training course that goes with the purchase of a firearm...it negates the states arguments of poor or non-existent training... And unless the SCOTUS takes up a case in which they clearly define the scope and meaning of "keep and bear arms"...and what constitutes a "militia", 50 state reciprocity will have to be accomplished by the states themselves. Personally, I prefer George Masons definition... "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788 |
#138
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#139
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"Reciprocity for all 50 states will never happen if anything is left up to the states."
Regrettably true...I suppose that it will have to be congress that will have to pass a nationwide CCW bill...which will be fought in court for eternity...unless it could be brought up to SCOTUS on some sort of "emergency" status... And I still do not see why all this cannot be argued on "full faith and credit"...I've read the explanations...but still do not see the logic... Perhaps a "perfect storm" is needed...a friendly court, a bill passed by congress allowing the creation of a nation-wide CCW permit, and a challenge to the bill...disputing the meaning of "to bear arms"... I dunno....maybe in my lifetime, little as is left... But, I never did think I'd see the day where one could walk in and buy pot legally...but today, one can...and it may go nationwide. Hmmm maybe combine the two... Nawwww.... |
#140
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How about a bill that goes beyond reciprocity to encompass all the civil rights issues? Reciprocity set's a minimum floor for "bear" - we need a floor for "keep" that addresses bans & rationing, microstamping, FFL zoning (all the Brady tactics) that would basically enshrine Heller. In return, really beef up legitimate attempts (w/due process) to keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them.
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Proud CGN Contributor USMC Pistol Team Alumni - Distinguished Pistol Shot Owner of multiple Constitutionally protected tools |
#141
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Micro stamping is a really dumb idea because if a firearm ever comes out with that feature those with ill intent will defeat it on firearms they wont use in crimes. |
#142
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Keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is relatively easy...20 years for the first offence of felon, previously convicted of violent crimes, in possession of firearm. life w/ no parole for the second offence. Same penalty for use of firearm in the commission of a crime by anyone. Make it so expensive that criminals will not want to take a chance on using a firearm...And...if a knife, or other item is used as a weapon, apply the same penalties.Mentally ill is another issue...where do we draw the line? Diagnosed by professional mental health personnel as a "clear and present danger" to self and public? No problem there...Took a course of valium 15 years ago during a rough stretch of you life, but are doing just fine today? Maybe that would ban you from owning and possessing firearms... Where do we draw the line...And how do we determine who has crossed that line, and just what that line is...
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#143
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Its interesting that people who are pro 2A and particularly those who are concerned about resisting a "tyrannical government" are at the same time just fine in letting that same government decide what is a felony and then disarm citizens. Read the book Three Felonies a Day by Harvey Silverglate.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00505UZ4G...ng=UTF8&btkr=1 |
#144
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Last edited by ulmapache; 07-03-2018 at 6:28 PM.. Reason: spelling |
#145
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I'm saying that there are a lot of felonies that have nothing to do with guns or violence. I don't think your second amendment rights should be forfeit for, for example, violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. That should be reserved for violent felonies involving use of a firearm. Your point about what you would like to be in relation to felonies with firearms neglects that basically the criminal justice system is effectively run by gun controllers. Last edited by MisterX9; 07-03-2018 at 8:28 PM.. |
#146
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I also tend to agree; however I would lump in all violent felonies as prohibitory, not just those in which a firearm was used. Do you think that a murderer should get his gun rights back after prison for no other reason than that he beat, stabbed, or strangled his victim to death? Others think that "if you've served your time, you get all your rights back. If you too dangerous to be allowed your rights, then you shouldn't be let out of prison." While this a certain consistency and logical appeal, the Costitution does not, as currently understood, permit such a result except when a sentence of life without parole is given. |
#147
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The senate is out of the gun law biz. In fact, they are out of the legislative biz too. About all they can agree to is a pay increase.
The senate is a deliberative body. That doesn't mean they have to pass anything. |
#148
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This seems wrong to me. Heller flat-out states that longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill are “presumptively lawful.” So you can lose certain rights and not just because you're serving life without parole. Tyler v Hillsdale challenged a lifetime loss of 2A rights for the mentally ill, and while it didn't go to SCOTUS, the federal appeals court said, "We're OK with the lifetime ban, but only if you can support it with evidence so it can pass intermediate scrutiny". Since the govt couldn't support it with any evidence to pass intermediate scrutiny*, they lost, but the decision made it clear there exists a path to victory for them. * does anyone wonder why the progtards are so fired-up to have the CDC conduct studies on "gun violence"? It is for one reason: They know the antis at the CDC will drum up some BS to "conclude" that "gunz r bad", and thus they can bring those studies to these kinds of 2A challenges. Have to? Well, if they don't pass a budget and the govt gridlocks, those Senators won't be Senators after the next election.
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#149
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I agree not all felonies are created equally, and there should be some sort of scale for being eligible once again with clearly outlined criteria and process ranging from a permanent loss (for violent felonies) to losing the ability for a time then being eligible to re-apply. |
#150
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#151
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__________________
"No personal computer will ever have gigabytes of RAM" - Scott Nudds |
#152
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__________________
"No personal computer will ever have gigabytes of RAM" - Scott Nudds |
#153
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There is the Constitutional limitation on cruel and unusual punishment, and yes, there are both sentencing "guidelines" and statutory sentences or minimums, all of which are subject to change. However, again, one the sentence is served, a convict must be released and cannot be held further without violating his or her constitutional rights. There is one exception in California for sexual predators who, although they must be released from prison, can be held "indefinitely" in a mental health facility specializing int he treatment of sexually deviant offenders. Escapes me where that place is--there is only one. And yes, that can mean that the offender is never released prior to death.
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#154
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So rewrite those. Solved.
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"No personal computer will ever have gigabytes of RAM" - Scott Nudds |
#155
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#156
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"20 years for the first offence of felon, previously convicted of violent crimes..." |
#157
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The reciprocity is near meaningless per se. The prime utility like fixnics is as a tactic. Dems propose any new gun control in the US congress, and we attach reciprocity as a poison pill. Fixnics is useful in a different way, as a low impact give. in practice the reciprocity versions that have come anywhere near close to passing have wont help anyone in a de jure or defacto may issue jurisdiction. its utility is in tying the demos in knots and roadblocking their other efforts'
so the bad news is it is doa, the good news is it is still helpful in other ways |
#158
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bump....
Sept and Oct this year are going to be really busy in D.C., what with Nat' Recip starting to move again in the Senate, the Kavanaugh confirmation battle in the Senate, and 1/3rd of the Senate and all of the House campaigning before the Nov elections. Hang on to your seats once Sept 4th rolls around....
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#159
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Why would McConnell move for a vote on reciprocity before the election? Still dangling it out there to get more GOP at the polls. Kavanaugh will be in Oct. and reciprocity will likely be voted on after the elections in November or December, if at all. It's still "in the fall" until 12/20/2018, no?
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#160
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