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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #601  
Old 01-13-2018, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
From 2.1.4
The overall length of a firearm is the distance between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion of the weapon measured on a line parallel to the axis of the bore.

The end of a flash hider or brake is not the muzzle of a barrel.


"Removable muzzle devices (flash suppressors, muzzle brakes, barrel extensions, etc.), do not count towards overall length or barrel length measurements. However, permanently affixed attachments are considered part of the barrel.

The acceptable methods for permanently attaching a device of this type to a firearm barrel involve (1) using deep-penetrating, full-fusion, gas or electric steel-seam welds or (2) using high-temperature silver solder exceeding 1100 degrees Fahrenheit. Depending on he dimensions of a particular barrel, it may also be possible to permanently affix a device by drilling a blind hole through the attachment and into the barrel wall. A steel pin that is flush with, or below, the outside diameter of the muzzle attachment is then inserted, and the hole welded closed. Tack-welding is not an approved method for permanently attaching a muzzle device to a firearm barrel.

John R. Spencer
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
7/18/2011"
Damnit I fell victim to reading too fast, thanks for the clarification. And I do remember now, only the rear attachments don’t need to be permenant..

Good job and thanks
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  #602  
Old 01-13-2018, 12:05 PM
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Can someone clarify for me that after AWR , does the the term LENDING / BORROWING a RAW also include you allowing someone to fire the RAW in your presence at a range...??? ( or does it only pertain to giving said RAW to someone for use NOT in your presence ) Thanks in advance...
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  #603  
Old 01-13-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikaika808 View Post
Can someone clarify for me that after AWR , does the the term LENDING / BORROWING a RAW also include you allowing someone to fire the RAW in your presence at a range...??? ( or does it only pertain to giving said RAW to someone for use NOT in your presence ) Thanks in advance...
The assumption is yes.. though I haven’t read through the regs lately to verify but this is question 9 on the DOJ website FAQ

Quote:
Can I take a registered assault weapon/.50 BMG rifle to a gunsmith for repairs?

Yes. However, you cannot leave it with the gunsmith unless he or she holds an assault weapon permit or BMG rifle permit respectively. Otherwise, you must remain with the firearm while it is being repaired. If the firearm must be shipped to the manufacturer for repairs, a firearms dealer with an assault weapon permit or .50 BMG rifle permit must handle the shipping.
So that should give you an idea that as long as you are present it’s fine
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  #604  
Old 01-14-2018, 5:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
Simple solution. Use the standard buttpad that came with the X95. After registration I remove the muzzle extension off a TAR21 and it measured 26”. I don’t think the X95 is much different. Manticore also make a buttpad with a deeper pocket that they claim meets the 26 OAL.
You aren't tracking the conversation.... I only mentioned the X95 buttpad scenario to support the point I was making about the OAL measurement.
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  #605  
Old 01-14-2018, 8:23 AM
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Originally Posted by caliguy93 View Post
Not true, federally does not require the muzzle device to be pinned if you need it to hit 26”.

Feds measure OAL from The furthest point to the furthest point in ANY possible firearble configuration. (You can technically tape a stick to your barrel or buttstock to make it over 26” via federal measurement standards)

California’s previous laws were the shortest possible fireable configuration to the furthest point but only recently began measuring OAL from The shortest possible fireable configuration to the end of the barrel or permenantly attached muzzle device via their new regulations.

The only time a pinned muzzle device was ever required PREVIOUSLY was when a muzzle device was needed to achieve a 16” barrel or removing the threaded barrel feature on pistols
So as in the FN PS90 situation... it comes with a 16” barrel and to make it Cali compliant they used a that god awful barrel extension to make 30” OAL... For RAW the barrel meets the 16” without the extension so according to this IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE PERMANENT for RAW ??? And if Approved for RAW the PS90 in its original configuration meets the 16” barrel length and still meets the OAL of over 26” with out all the Cali compliant stuff will be okay...???
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  #606  
Old 01-14-2018, 8:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikaika808 View Post
So as in the FN PS90 situation... it comes with a 16” barrel and to make it Cali compliant they used a that god awful barrel extension to make 30” OAL... For RAW the barrel meets the 16” without the extension so according to this IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE PERMANENT for RAW ??? And if Approved for RAW the PS90 in its original configuration meets the 16” barrel length and still meets the OAL of over 26” with out all the Cali compliant stuff will be okay...???

Per DOJ FAQ




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  #607  
Old 01-14-2018, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikaika808 View Post
So as in the FN PS90 situation... it comes with a 16” barrel and to make it Cali compliant they used a that god awful barrel extension to make 30” OAL... For RAW the barrel meets the 16” without the extension so according to this IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE PERMANENT for RAW ??? And if Approved for RAW the PS90 in its original configuration meets the 16” barrel length and still meets the OAL of over 26” with out all the Cali compliant stuff will be okay...???
Barrel = 16"
and OAL = 26"
then OK for RAW.

Muzzle device needs to be permed to include it in the measurement.
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  #608  
Old 01-14-2018, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
Barrel = 16"
and OAL = 26"
then OK for RAW.

Muzzle device needs to be permed to include it in the measurement.
In order to qualify first for Rifle RAW doesn't it need to be 30" OAL at time of RAW , then can measure to the 16" 26" measurement after approval...
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  #609  
Old 01-14-2018, 10:34 AM
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yes, 30" when registered and photographed.
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  #610  
Old 01-14-2018, 11:20 AM
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Exclamation

For anyone wondering how registration REALLY works, see the first post in this thread:


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1415817

End of story.
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  #611  
Old 01-14-2018, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
yes, 30" when registered and photographed.
So at time of RAW does said Barrel Extension need to be permanently attched to 16" Barrel...???
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  #612  
Old 01-14-2018, 8:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikaika808 View Post
So at time of RAW does said Barrel Extension need to be permanently attched to 16" Barrel...???
No. (message too short)
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  #613  
Old 01-15-2018, 12:49 AM
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Couple Questions since I'm a bit behind on the new regulations since I stopped paying attention when they kept changing their minds.

Self Built? Does that mean 80% or anything I put together myself?

If Self Built, what is the make and model? Make would be the lower receiver make on an ar-15? or the receiver make on an ak? What about model?

What if I do not know the following information as it was not required for me to keep at the time of purchase.?

"Date acquired (DOJ WANTS THE DATE DROS WAS STARTED)
Acquired from (dealer, private party, family member, etc)"

Do I actually need to remove a flash hider on an AR to get the exact length of the firearm without a flash hider? If not how do I calculate the exact length?

If a lower is marked multi the barrel can be changed later? if it is not marked multi it can not be changed later?

How clear do the pictures need to be? I want to give them the bare minimum since they are making me waste part of my life doing all this stressful stuff.
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  #614  
Old 01-18-2018, 1:27 PM
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Okay got some kick backs and need some help in finding out exactly what they want corrected... Here is the admin comment...


Admin Comment History
On 01/18/2018 13:48:10, Admin wrote: Thank you for submitting your application. The characteristics you marked on your application do not match the firearm characteristics in the photos you provided. Please refer to California Code of Regulation, title 11, section 5471 for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf

I got the same message for 2 firearms 1st is a Adams Arms AR and the 2nd is a FNH PS90... Hope someone has some insight so I can make the corrections and get them Registered...

On the Adams Arms AR I marked all characteristics EXCEPT Grenade Launchers Flare Launcher and Semi-Automatic, Centerfire, and Overall Length of Less than 30 inches (measure while rifle is in the shortest possible configuration, in which it will fire)

On the PS90 I ONLY marked Flash Suppressor and Thumbhole stock

Last edited by ikaika808; 01-18-2018 at 1:35 PM..
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  #615  
Old 01-18-2018, 1:30 PM
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Photos of the 2 firearms that got the kickbacks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC02540.jpg (100.5 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg DSC02516.jpg (104.1 KB, 80 views)
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  #616  
Old 01-18-2018, 1:33 PM
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You need pictures of the mag release. Did you read the pdf you linked?
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  #617  
Old 01-18-2018, 1:38 PM
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Here are the Bullet Button Pictures I sent... Should I try at a different angle...
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File Type: jpg DSC02506.jpg (96.5 KB, 74 views)
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  #618  
Old 01-18-2018, 2:15 PM
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Remove "forward pistol grip" for the AR and maybe remove "flash suppressor" for the PS90 since it's a faux can. My angled forward grip went through without "forward pistol grip" selected and I did not mark "flash suppressor" for my faux canned rifle.

Last edited by bigbully; 01-18-2018 at 2:19 PM..
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  #619  
Old 01-18-2018, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikaika808 View Post
Okay got some kick backs and need some help in finding out exactly what they want corrected... Here is the admin comment...


Admin Comment History
On 01/18/2018 13:48:10, Admin wrote: Thank you for submitting your application. The characteristics you marked on your application do not match the firearm characteristics in the photos you provided. Please refer to California Code of Regulation, title 11, section 5471 for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf

I got the same message for 2 firearms 1st is a Adams Arms AR and the 2nd is a FNH PS90... Hope someone has some insight so I can make the corrections and get them Registered...

On the Adams Arms AR I marked all characteristics EXCEPT Grenade Launchers Flare Launcher and Semi-Automatic, Centerfire, and Overall Length of Less than 30 inches (measure while rifle is in the shortest possible configuration, in which it will fire)

On the PS90 I ONLY marked Flash Suppressor and Thumbhole stock
Correction: that message was for the Adams Arms AR so I corrected it by Un-Marking " Forward Pistol Grip "

For the PS90 I got this Admin Comment ,

Thank you for submitting your application. Based on the photos you provided, there are additional characteristics shown on your firearm that were not marked on the application. Please refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5471(z) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf

So for the PS90 I think I should have Marked Forward Pistol Grip...

Correction sent and will see if they get Kicked Back
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  #620  
Old 01-18-2018, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikaika808 View Post
Correction: that message was for the Adams Arms AR so I corrected it by Un-Marking " Forward Pistol Grip "

For the PS90 I got this Admin Comment ,

Thank you for submitting your application. Based on the photos you provided, there are additional characteristics shown on your firearm that were not marked on the application. Please refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5471(z) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf

So for the PS90 I think I should have Marked Forward Pistol Grip...

Correction sent and will see if they get Kicked Back

I have the urge to mark everything when I register my Tavor SAR. I want them to come back and ask where the grenade launcher is. They probably won't even notice that it doesn't have an adjustable stock either.
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  #621  
Old 01-18-2018, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikaika808 View Post
Correction: that message was for the Adams Arms AR so I corrected it by Un-Marking " Forward Pistol Grip "



For the PS90 I got this Admin Comment ,



Thank you for submitting your application. Based on the photos you provided, there are additional characteristics shown on your firearm that were not marked on the application. Please refer to California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 5471(z) for more information: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf



So for the PS90 I think I should have Marked Forward Pistol Grip...



Correction sent and will see if they get Kicked Back


They seem to enjoy playing shock the monkey with these application kickback. The silly part is none of these things make any difference as you can change them (except the BB) after you register it.


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  #622  
Old 01-18-2018, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbully View Post
Remove "forward pistol grip" for the AR and maybe remove "flash suppressor" for the PS90 since it's a faux can. My angled forward grip went through without "forward pistol grip" selected and I did not mark "flash suppressor" for my faux canned rifle.

I used faux suppressor covering to the end of barrel in the notes. They accepted that.


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  #623  
Old 01-24-2018, 1:28 PM
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Okay so , Submitted my Registration 1/13/2018 for my 3 firearms 1) Adams Arms AR 2) Adams Arms AR Pistol 3) FN PS90. Got Kickbacks on 1/18/2018 on the AR and the PS90 corrected and resent. Got email Confirmation on the 2 with requested Correction that Submission Processing and that I would be notified by mail 1/24/2018 Has anybody submitted multiple firearms and did not get a Confirmation Email on any other but Still showed up on the Paper Work sent in the mail...??? It seems like the ones that needed corrections got the Email Confirmation but my AR Pistol that didn't get any kickbacks has been " In Progress " since submitting and I haven't got any Confirmation Email stating I was going to notified by Mail...
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  #624  
Old 01-26-2018, 2:42 PM
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I'm in the same boat here... what make would you select for a homebuilt 80%?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justintoxicated View Post
Couple Questions since I'm a bit behind on the new regulations since I stopped paying attention when they kept changing their minds.

Self Built? Does that mean 80% or anything I put together myself?

If Self Built, what is the make and model? Make would be the lower receiver make on an ar-15? or the receiver make on an ak? What about model?

What if I do not know the following information as it was not required for me to keep at the time of purchase.?

"Date acquired (DOJ WANTS THE DATE DROS WAS STARTED)
Acquired from (dealer, private party, family member, etc)"

Do I actually need to remove a flash hider on an AR to get the exact length of the firearm without a flash hider? If not how do I calculate the exact length?

If a lower is marked multi the barrel can be changed later? if it is not marked multi it can not be changed later?

How clear do the pictures need to be? I want to give them the bare minimum since they are making me waste part of my life doing all this stressful stuff.
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  #625  
Old 01-26-2018, 2:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myv View Post
I'm in the same boat here... what make would you select for a homebuilt 80%?
 
Make for self made 80% is U S, but if it doesn't have a DOJ supplied serial # it will be rejected.
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  #626  
Old 01-26-2018, 2:49 PM
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Thanks for the fast reply! Luckily I got my DOJ serial engraved already!
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  #627  
Old 01-29-2018, 4:46 PM
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Hello everyone. I’m trying to create an account to register my AR and got stuck at the FIRST page. Anyone know what password format does it takes? I can’t find the info anywhere. Please help!


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  #628  
Old 01-30-2018, 4:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IE_imaging View Post
Hello everyone. I’m trying to create an account to register my AR and got stuck at the FIRST page. Anyone know what password format does it takes? I can’t find the info anywhere. Please help!


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Here is the CFARS public user guide, all 37 pages and on page 8, it states:

Password, which must follow these guidelines:
• Be 8 to 20 characters in length.
• Contain at least one uppercase alpha (A-Z).
• Contain at least one lowercase alpha (a-z).
• Contain at least one numeric character (0-9).
• Not contain three or more sequential characters found in your first
name or last name.
• Special characters are recommended, but not required.


https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...ser-guide.pdf?

Hope that helps you....
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  #629  
Old 01-30-2018, 7:09 AM
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For joint registrations, is it better to submit the primary one to flush out any submission errors and then submit the second one? Is the registration approved when both applications are approved or are they independent?
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  #630  
Old 01-30-2018, 8:17 AM
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Need help please, I registered like a month ago got a email for payment and that's it, where does it show on cfars account if it's still being reviewed?

Also if you don't get any kick backs do you get a email saying it was approved?
I read people with kickbacks when they fix the problem get a email saying it was approved and should receive notification by mail.

If you don't have any problems do they send you a email saying your approved and will receive your paperwork via the mail?

Also do you fill out the coe form on the cfars website?

Thank you guys

Last edited by PC9111; 01-30-2018 at 8:35 AM..
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  #631  
Old 01-30-2018, 9:32 AM
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Are people seeing kickbacks if you cannot remember from whom and when you bought the firearm? What are people doing when they can't remember/can't find the paperwork?
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  #632  
Old 01-30-2018, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PC9111 View Post
Need help please, I registered like a month ago got a email for payment and that's it, where does it show on cfars account if it's still being reviewed?

Also if you don't get any kick backs do you get a email saying it was approved?
I read people with kickbacks when they fix the problem get a email saying it was approved and should receive notification by mail.

If you don't have any problems do they send you a email saying your approved and will receive your paperwork via the mail?

Also do you fill out the coe form on the cfars website?

Thank you guys


They only send emails that a)they have received your application and it is under review. b) notices of errors, deficiencies, and request for addition information.
One day your approval letter will just show up in the mail.


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  #633  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:11 AM
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Copy, I just haven't received the under review email yet or noticed anything on the cfars website telling me the status so I guess just need to be patience.

Thank you
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  #634  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:44 PM
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For those that have registered an AR pistol. Did your pictures include a ten round magazine attached, no mag attached, or the single shot block if you originally bought it as a SSE?
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  #635  
Old 01-30-2018, 12:52 PM
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Default (GENERAL How Does Registration Work thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GtRacerH View Post
For those that have registered an AR pistol. Did your pictures include a ten round magazine attached, no mag attached, or the single shot block if you originally bought it as a SSE?

10 rd mag, or nothing; probably does not matter. I used 10 rounder


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  #636  
Old 01-30-2018, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtykim View Post
try calling the FFL that did the PPT. I was able to get the seller's info that way. I initially submitted the application as an FFL purchase cause I didn't have the seller's info and it was rejected by DOJ saying that their records show it was a PPT. I had to correct it.
In some cases the FFL is no longer in business and in some cases I've forgotten which FFL it was and lost my paperwork. Yes, shame on me for not holding on to all paperwork, but it is what it is and I'm concerned about kickbacks when I register
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  #637  
Old 02-01-2018, 4:00 PM
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I posted this in the new "ghost gun" serialization thread, but it is pertinent to this thread also, so I will repeat it here. This is with regard to attempting to register as an AW, a home build with a home made serial number that is already registered in the AFS:

I've been going round and round with somebody at DOJ via the CFARS issue reporting system.

Long and short. They are interpreting the PC such that 29181 (c) only applies to NON-AWs. So, if you have what is today defined as an AW, they require you get a DOJ serial number before you can register it as an AW. That or make it featureless (or change to a new fixed mag).

They will NOT accept your AW registration on a home build with a home serial number, even if that number is already in the AFS. Period.

It does not matter what the PC says. It only matters that they have their interpretation and you have to play by their rules.
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  #638  
Old 02-09-2018, 3:34 PM
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caliguy93 caliguy93 is offline
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Well 6 months later and over 80 corrections, I finnaly have my AW registration letter for all 29 firearms... 3 pages long
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Old 02-09-2018, 5:34 PM
rero360 rero360 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
I posted this in the new "ghost gun" serialization thread, but it is pertinent to this thread also, so I will repeat it here. This is with regard to attempting to register as an AW, a home build with a home made serial number that is already registered in the AFS:

I've been going round and round with somebody at DOJ via the CFARS issue reporting system.

Long and short. They are interpreting the PC such that 29181 (c) only applies to NON-AWs. So, if you have what is today defined as an AW, they require you get a DOJ serial number before you can register it as an AW. That or make it featureless (or change to a new fixed mag).

They will NOT accept your AW registration on a home build with a home serial number, even if that number is already in the AFS. Period.

It does not matter what the PC says. It only matters that they have their interpretation and you have to play by their rules.
Yup, I've been dealing with this issue since mid August, hence my joining the list of plaintiffs in the Holt v CADOJ case as I'm out of the country and am unable to apply one of their #s to my gun in time.
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Old 03-15-2018, 3:51 PM
DLRfan DLRfan is offline
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Question, would I just have to VolReg if my Rifle has a fixed magazine? (ArMaglock). And avoid the BBAW registry aspect, right?
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