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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #41  
Old 03-21-2017, 4:17 PM
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That's interesting, I never knew about that effect. I guess you learn something new every day.

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Old 03-21-2017, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by joefrank64k View Post
Focus,

What spotting scope are you using??
I've been using an ancient Nikon Fieldscope. But, I just picked up a Swarovski STR80 MRAD. I'm sure everyone will be disapointed when I stop calling out impacts using "gong units".

Cheers,
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  #43  
Old 03-21-2017, 6:01 PM
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That's interesting, I never knew about that effect. I guess you learn something new every day.

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I should have mentioned that you'll need good glass, around 25x with .1mil subtentions (not seen on every mil based scopes). The increase is very small, the MOA plate at 2400 will be about .278 mil but with a bit of heat might read closer .3 so the changes are VERY small. But just represents about a 200y error, I have seen over 400 though.. I also acknowledge that we use rounding the formulas.. so the further we go the range is off anyway.


That Swaro will go a long way in making these errors less.
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Old 03-21-2017, 7:21 PM
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Apollo
When you tune your rifle the barrels muzzle must be rising to achieve maximum accuracy.
Your extreme spread directly affects your vertical but you can tune it out.
To tune it out you want to add weight around 2.75 inches out in front of the muzzle so the barrel will resonate creating a standing wave. The standing wave doesn't have time to form while the bullet is still in the barrel but that is the desired setting you are looking for.
This muzzle rising allows the slower shots which stay in the barrel longer to have a higher departure angle than the faster shots.
This higher departure angle allows the slower and faster bullets to converge on the target.
In 22 Rimfire Benchrest shooting you can't reload your ammo so the extreme spread gets compensated for by using a tuner. The photo shows 3 rifles in 6 Dasher getting the proper weight added to the muzzle.
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  #45  
Old 03-21-2017, 7:28 PM
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I remember seeing pictures of that explaining how it works. Wouldn't a large muzzle brake work more or less the same depending on how much it weighed?

Interesting food for thought.

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Old 03-21-2017, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
Agreed, that there is a lot of shooter and environmental introduced noise. We've shoot over optical, acoustic and recently (once the pre-orders shipped) the labradar while shooting ELR. I believe enough to conclude that slower rounds near 1.2 or past do on average hit lower as a trued dope curves suggests. Just as important is using a mil grade laser to know the true distances (way harder than it seems) when we create our tuned dope curves.

Interesting that you also mention optical disturbances, I don't see enough people understanding this. There are still some that think mirage "lifts" the bullet with rising heat waves, rather than the POA being off.

Not responding to you, but agreeing and adding to it, trying to clarify what I mean to others that may think I am nuts While shooting from, to, or across peaks, mirage is greatly mitigated, we have spent a lot of time on the desert floor were mirage can create a bit of a struggle. With mirage past 2k, a 2' target can actually look larger than it is. Because it is relatively small you sometimes can NOT pick up it's true home position (larger targets you can generally see the target "bounce back" into the wind read).

For fun next time, if someone reading this is interested, mil range (with a calibrated scope) a 2' target out past 2400.. (24x27.78)/your mil read $ to donuts you'll get a number much closer than your actual range, because the target actual looks a bit larger. Do the same on a 68" man and your distance will be closer, do this on that same man at only 800-1000 yards are you'll most likely impress yourself with how close you can get.
Interesting post

Guess it is time I start driving up North !
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  #47  
Old 03-21-2017, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by focus View Post
I've been using an ancient Nikon Fieldscope. But, I just picked up a Swarovski STR80 MRAD. I'm sure everyone will be disapointed when I stop calling out impacts using "gong units".

Cheers,
Haha!!

I've been thinking about one of those, they've got good mil/LEO pricing, too.
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  #48  
Old 03-21-2017, 8:51 PM
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I'm sure everyone will be disapointed when I stop calling out impacts using "gong units".
Gong units are universal though.
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  #49  
Old 03-21-2017, 10:16 PM
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Gong units work well because if you say your one gong to the right the shooter can put there scope on the edge of the gong and dial it. The MOA guys have 1/8 and 1/4 and the Joe Valdada guys have 1/6 movement while the Mil guys are using 1/10.
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  #50  
Old 03-22-2017, 9:47 AM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Gong units work well because if you say your one gong to the right the shooter can put there scope on the edge of the gong and dial it. The MOA guys have 1/8 and 1/4 and the Joe Valdada guys have 1/6 movement while the Mil guys are using 1/10.
Gong units --- I just spit out my coffee! I'm a little slow on the uptake apparently.. so the communication is " up 1-1/8 gong or Left 2/3 gong" then trying to translate that to a new dialed elevation or wind hold? Certainly a fair and universal handicap

I guess a lot are also using SFP and of course, they don't scale well regardless of the "movement" or standard. Yep, I get the FFP is too thick thing, but not on all scopes and it is more in ones head in some cases as you bisect the target. SFP to long range is kinda like using a ruler that only works on 8x11 paper, try measure something not on that paper, if thats how scales (rulers) worked we'd all acknowledge their uselessness.

You made a good illustration with the "movement" choices with MOA. Eventually, I believe, as I've mentioned a few times, some ELR shooters will start to see the importance of unity, scaled subtentions at all zoom levels and gravitate away from MOA based subtentions and thinking.

Mil based is generally .1 as you pointed out (some BR .05), but they end up exactly the same and little math is needed. Of course 1/10 or .1, is the not really as fine as any of the other examples (a hair over 1/3 MOA ~ 3.4377 MOA) but it is fastest, easiest to double check and simplest. Of course the big rub for BR guys is the lack of dialing resolution, but that also is addressed with familiarity and slight POA adjustments.

Not only do you get more visual feed back from your turrets on elevation, but it will become increasingly evident especially in ELR as one switches between distances under multiple rotations that milradian 10 based systems are easier to deal with.

As an example: If had 24.5mils dialed on either my 10 mil per rotation (or 12 per rotation scopes) it is still super easy to know exactly were you are without any math, second guessing, or spinning back to zero on the rotation because it is clearly marked on the turret. Even if it was not, one would expect the scope to be on 4.5 or .5 respectively with the turret 1r higher. Adjusting, to a new target that calls for 27.9 mils is supper simple, move to 7.9 or 3.9 respectively, done. Of course, the "clicks are the same as the call, just the . moved, but who counts clicks in long range?

Under the same conditions the MOA guys need to dial 84.223MOA (lets forget about the various rotation possibilities), now adjust to 95.9MOA. So you take some number displayed on your scope, then have to figure out what that is. New call 95.9, -84.223 = 11.677 now divide by the movement (1/4 in this case) 11.677/4=U2.92MOA. Ok kinda simple if you have paper, if you didn't use paper and Billy just called out "Recalculation" as one was dialing dialing..how do you verify something like, 337 and 383.6, nowhere is that marked on a turret? It isn't that it can't be done, it is just slower and I've seen more miss-adjustments, slower responses and redials because with those large numbers and parts to moa units.

My only motivation in trying to make these points again, is so maybe s new shooter interested in ELR to REALLY think thru the scope purchases before jumping in. Travel, quality, proper subtentions, honest ranging, scaled location calls and reticle style are key considerations if they wanted to shoot ELR anywhere outside the parameters created by this specific event or the mentoring in use of gong scales.

Again, I respect your efforts and willingness to let people experience ELR etc.. In no way am trying to be disruptive, just trying to help with another angle, of view if I can.

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  #51  
Old 03-22-2017, 2:38 PM
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I benefit and consequence of SFP scopes is the hold over. At 18x it might be 9 mils but at 6x it's 27 mils. That's pretty useful if you are just starting out and don't have specialized equipment yet. If you have a scope without enough travel to get on target hold overs can save your behind.

The first time I shot I needed something like 41 mils to get on target.

Of course don't do what I did and forget that your substentions are triple when you try and dial windage.


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Old 03-22-2017, 2:39 PM
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Oh, real quick. Who knows how well the 300gr Sierras transition to subsonic?

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Old 03-22-2017, 3:50 PM
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I benefit and consequence of SFP scopes is the hold over. At 18x it might be 9 mils but at 6x it's 27 mils. That's pretty useful if you are just starting out and don't have specialized equipment yet. If you have a scope without enough travel to get on target hold overs can save your behind.

The first time I shot I needed something like 41 mils to get on target.

Of course don't do what I did and forget that your substentions are triple when you try and dial windage.


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Yes, like using a VW to race F1..

Honestly, they is NOT a good way to repeat the EXACT magnification other than full or min so your guess at all times as you can not reliable calibrate any offsets.See my earlier example of the entire target being being sub .3mil

SFP is great for field rifle PCP stuff (I do this on my FX Royal 500), because as you pointed out, when the drop is nuts but in this case the targets close you can use both parallax and zoom to tune holdover. But that really is another animal.

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Oh, real quick. Who knows how well the 300gr Sierras transition to subsonic?

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I've never found them great at any long distance, and not to be super predictable, I opt for the semi-pointed Lapua. Both loose predictability the longer they have been transonic. The Amax 2 285 give more speed and better than both the above past 1.2. The big issue with Amax, is you must sort first by weight, then measure them. The Lapua 300 of the three is far more consistent.

BTW I don't think you only need to worry about transonic flight as .8 is a long ways.. once your trans your staying there

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  #54  
Old 03-22-2017, 4:16 PM
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The Amax 2 285 give more speed and better than both the above past 1.2. The big issue with Amax, is you must sort first by weight, then measure them. The Lapua 300 of the three is far more consistent.

BTW I don't think you only need to worry about transonic flight as .8 is a long ways.. once your trans your staying there
Yeah Sierras are far from the best but they were within my budget. I just want to make sure they aren't going to go all wonky once they dip below 1,200 fps.

What about the Berger Hybrids or Flatlines? I can't seem to find any good info on them as they transition.



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Old 03-22-2017, 5:53 PM
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Diver
With gong units a new shooter doesn't need to lift his/her head off of the gun. They can dial 1.5 gongs in MOA ,Mil or Ior Valdada and no matter what they are still 1.5 gongs.

At our matches we have both and while I am a Benchrest guy who believes in fine adjustments i see that the coarse adjustments seem to work well at 2000+ yards.

The rub is everyone is using different units of measure and it gets confusing for the newer shooters most of which think 1 click is one mil or 1 moa.

I hate telling people to use the big numbers on there scopes not the clicks.

Apollo
The Sierras will work very well in the transonic region. People think i am picking on other manufacturers when i post so i wont tell anyone what bullet to use.
The Flatlines shoot best out of my unfireformed SnipeTac brass at 3300 FPS.
The Bergers and Sierras work best at 3350 FPS.
I would use the Flatlines in a 338 Lapua Ackley Improved if best accuracy was at 3250 FPS or more.
When the big companies like Sierra and Lapua measure BC on a bullet they use chronographs costing $200,000 and machine rests in underground tunnels.
When the smaller companies measure BC they measure it at one velocity across acoustic targets and usually give out a very optimistic number.
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  #56  
Old 03-22-2017, 6:37 PM
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On the small company like Warner - Jeff and Dan are trying to get on the Doppler unit down South.

FWIW I drop test all that I shoot from near to far. It is very accurate, if you have dead set distances (again very hard to do even with a V21).

Apollo the Flatlines seem very capable of greatly extending SS range, not only from their high BC via drop verified dope, but because they run around 100+ fps faster than the 300 grain alternates. They do not like trans..

Again, if you're running your 38 past 1.2, the longer you do, the more departure you'll see from models. This enhanced decay rate is a symptom of instability. Of all the projos mentioned, (it is worth repeating) the sorted Amax seem to hold truest when compared to the others during long transonic flight. Remember, it is't as simple as some people think, you don't cross a magic line and see issues, nor is that line definitive day to day location to location. The disturbed flight also is not like crossing the street, it doesn't end for most of our applications. As an example, the Amax with a speed of sound at 2,460 will be in dirty air somewhere from around 1900 thru 3,530 before finding something clean again.. thats a long ways..

But if you running like Lynn or Focus at 3400+ with a super high BC offering then a long trans flight is out of play anyway for the ranges they are currently shooting.


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Old 03-22-2017, 7:37 PM
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I had a theory about that but I don't​know how true it holds. A bullet with a lower BC will transition over a shorter total range and possibly stay in that turbulence for less time. So almost less effected.

Where as for the snipetac guys they don't even hit transonic so they aren't really effected by it.

But if a super high BC bullet were to transition completely from supersonic to subsonic it would be in that dirty air for a long long time.

Kind of like someone wiggling your steering wheel for a block vs for a mile.

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Old 03-22-2017, 8:45 PM
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I had a theory about that but I don't​know how true it holds. A bullet with a lower BC will transition over a shorter total range and possibly stay in that turbulence for less time. So almost less effected.

Where as for the snipetac guys they don't even hit transonic so they aren't really effected by it.

But if a super high BC bullet were to transition completely from supersonic to subsonic it would be in that dirty air for a long long time.

Kind of like someone wiggling your steering wheel for a block vs for a mile.

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I think what were really seeing in the case of the lower BC Amax in the example I used, is that transonic flight (condition dependent) is roughly, 1,600+ yards after it has already flown nearly 2K; is that TOF to cross 1600 of trans, is longer than it was to get there. I can only use theoretical TOF data, but it basically shows roughly 65% would be trans.. This is why I believe we should drop the thought of realistically ever leaving transonic flight once the target causes us to be into that zone.

Anyway, what I've seen is that projectiles in this class (other than some weird know shape that doesn't work as well like the SMK168) is that the ones that are much longer and lighter with high BC, seem to decay faster in trans than something like an Amax.. All of them, do so much more than programs like AB, Shooter, JBM predict when shot deep into that region. CB and tuned FFS predict the decay much better for the projectiles I've used. But creating a good dope curve that works from near thru ELR takes work and time. It appears the disturbance is slowing the flight and increasing the drop. As an antidotal byproduct, the greater the departure from the drop prediction, the angular performance also seems to degrade.

I am not claiming to be an expert, just what I've seen. There is Ballistician that has called BS on some of what we've seen over and over at ELR distances with SD/CE/radical drop departure from his model, claiming his programs are correct, however he has seemed to soften up now that the parent company has run Doppler and created a 6DOF calculation model that appears more in line with what we've witnessed. Apollo, I am putting this info in so that you don't take my word, but investigate yourself. Thats part of the fun of shooting ELR at "a lot" of targets at different distance, AOF and conditions.. but write stuff down so that you can track what is happening..

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Old 03-22-2017, 9:22 PM
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Diver,

Thank you for sharing your insight. I believe what little ELR experience I have matches what you explained. I don't understand exactly what is happening in the transonic region or how to work with it. But, I've seen enough of it to make me persue the super magnums to avoid it.

It might take a monster magnum pushing monolithics to make reliable hits at 2 miles. So, I am well on my way to becoming Dr Frankenstein and I know I'm not the only one.

Cheers,

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Old 03-22-2017, 9:40 PM
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Diver
In the game we are currently playing you need a bullet that transitions or you won't last long.
With a 338 SnipeTac you can push the 0.894 bullets to 3500 FPS but the accuracy isn't as good as it is at 3300 FPS.
Unfortunately that means they won't do 3000 yards supersonic.
The 338 Bergers at 3350 FPS will not do 3000 yards at supersonic velocities but we already know that they will transition as do the Sierras.
I have some of the 285 a-max but haven't used them yet.
The Flatlines are accurate enough at short-range but i haven't tested them at 1000 yards to see how much they open up which has always been a problem with solids. They never seem to group as well as the lead jacketed bullets do.
For the upcoming 3K Match in April i am going to add some length to my existing chamber and use the 300 grain Bergers.
I was fireforming at our last match and many of my case bodies had collapsed which means my ES was all over the map.
I don't think the Flatlines will transition with enough accuracy to make them my bullet of choice.
In a hunting rifle or a target rifle limited to 2000 yards they would be my first choice but not in a competition were we move in 500 yard increments.
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Old 03-22-2017, 9:51 PM
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Diver
In the game we are currently playing you need a bullet that transitions or you won't last long.
With a 338 SnipeTac you can push the 0.894 bullets to 3500 FPS but the accuracy isn't as good as it is at 3300 FPS.
Unfortunately that means they won't do 3000 yards supersonic.
The 338 Bergers at 3350 FPS will not do 3000 yards at supersonic velocities but we already know that they will transition as do the Sierras.
I have some of the 285 amazing but haven't used them yet.
The Flatlines are accurate enough at short-range but i haven't tested them at 1000 yards to see how much they open up which has always been a problem with solids. They never seem to group as well as the lead jacketed bullets do.
For the upcoming 3K Match in April i am going to add some length to my existing chamber and use the 300 grain Bergers.
I was fireforming at our last match and many of my case bodies had collapsed which means my ES was all over the map.
I don't think the Flatlines will transition with enough accuracy to make them my bullet of choice.
In a hunting rifle or a target rifle limited to 2000 yards they would be my first choice but not in a competition were we move in 500 yard increments.
I think we saying the same thing.

With a round like Focus at 3450 and 25.5ish inHg you can starve off the real bad effects of trans to 2500ish. I was trying to explain why I actually prefer the Amax.. either way, at 3k, you guys are soon outside 30 mils of travel most good ELR scopes have and the basic end of a 338 that Apollo is using. Sure he can still ring a plate, here and there. If his gun likes the Amax and he's able to get single digit ES #s, he'll actually have a better chance with carefully sorted Amaxs than the flatline or anything else I've tried.

BTW the icon for my profile is a 100y group with the 285 Amax.. they seem to be relatively easy to load for.

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It might take a monster magnum pushing monolithics to make reliable hits at 2 miles. So, I am well on my way t
Cheers,
Focus - good luck with that 14.9~ I shot hard mounted 20s and it sucks.. Bring Advil for your spotter, your spotter will have dirt in their teeth for a week LOL I'm just to wimpy to deal with the concussion of some of the bigger stuff..

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Old 03-22-2017, 10:10 PM
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The way it was explained to me was like this, as the bullet hits its own wash it isn't going completely straight anymore and it pitches and yaws (I think that's the right words) which increases air resistance and causes it to then go the opposite direction. So it might go nose down, then nose up, then nose down like a car correcting for a skid or an arrow in flight.

Stick your had out a car window on the freeway, point your finger tips parallel with the path of travel and it's easy to hold them steady. But flex them up or down and suddenly you've got a bunch more drag.

The longer and pointier the bullet the worse that would be because leverage and point of balance are all exaggerated. A lower BC bullet would possibly be more stable because it doesn't have that leverage acting on it. So the yaw and pitch is less extreme. Or maybe a better way to say it would be that it would be occurring at a higher frequency and thus have less effect on trajectory. Kind of like a laser vs a radio wave.

There was some info floating around that may have been debunked but rotational velocity vs forward velocity was said to come into play. A projectile spinning at a high velocity vs its forward velocity would experience more instability. Can't remember where I read that though.

I think that Focus and I are in two different camps on what it would take to get to 2 miles. If you could push a .375 cal flatline to 4000 fps it would get there without dipping below 1,200 fps. That would be the super magnum approach. It would also cut the wind nicely.

My theory is that a slower more consistent round with good transitional stability would be the way to go. Something with good BC but not at the expense of stability. Say a G7 BC of .4 and 3600 fps. A nice short fat case with a steep shoulder and long-ish neck. Something shooting a projectile below 400 grains with very low ES. Anything above 5 FPS difference and you might as well go home.

My concern about the mythical super magnum is that with that much powder and speed you'll be eating your barrel with every shot and have to work that into your shooting. By the last round in the ten shot string it would probably be shooting a different FPS and POI than before.

If you work backwards from that the 375-416 Barrett improved starts to look good. I just don't know of many bullets that I'd pair it with unless Berger finally releases their 375 solid sometime soon.

Either way it's all just theory because my budget ends at a stock 338 LM. But if you start at your goal and work backwards it's not hard to come up with a theoretical model of what would work based off of observations at closer ranges.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:20 PM
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Somehow I'm not concerned about drop with the 338LM, I've got a 40 mil riser gathering dust in my garage from when I was shooting the 308.

They're dirt cheap to make($20), the only issue is that the screws tend to loosen up on the bottom mount. The recoil from the 338 would probably eat it alive. If I honestly thought I'd get a chance at 3k - 3.6k I would have one of the local shops CNC me one out of solid aluminum for a couple hundred bucks.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:51 PM
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Diver,

I hear you about those punishing rounds. I'm not gonna use a 50. Sounds like you have shot Oerlikons?

If the internal ballistics models are accurate; I should be able to keep the exit pressure close to 10,000 PSI. That is less than the SnipeTac with a 32" barrel.

Apollo,

Barrel life and heat soak are real issues. I might be able to keep most of the combustion confined to the case. Maybe. But, 500 rounds of accurate life should be enough to complete a years worth of 3k matches. So, far it seems the longest COF is ~30 rounds. So, even 300 rounds would be enough.

Also, I'm not sure I can reliably predict any bullet's 7 second flight path. Five seconds is plenty to deal with.

Last year one member of the winning KO2M team didn't bring a rifle to the match. He will this year and its not a mouse gun.

Cheers,

Last edited by focus; 03-22-2017 at 11:10 PM..
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by focus View Post


Apollo,

Barrel life and heat soak are real issues. I might be able to keep most of the combustion confined to the case. Maybe. But, 500 rounds of accurate life should be enough to complete a years worth of 3k matches. So, far it seems the longest COF is ~30 rounds. So, even 300 rounds would be enough.

Also, I'm not sure I can reliably predict any bullet's 10 second flight path. Five seconds is plenty to deal with.

Last year one member of the winning KO2M team didn't bring a rifle to the match. He will this year and its not a mouse gun.

Cheers,
I'm not so concerned with barrel life in this instance. I was more stating that there would be changes in FPS and POI as the match went on and you would have to compensate for them.

You said it yourself that your barrel was speeding up. It seems to me that an even bigger magnum would speed up as it wore in, hit a goldilocks zone for a bit, then start to lose accuracy. It would just all be more exaggerated.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:42 PM
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I think that Focus and I are in two different camps on what it would take to get to 2 miles.


2 miles, I'm not sure a lot of shooters have a good perspective on just how far 2 miles is.. we drive down the freeway sure, but it doesn't really do the distance justice, nor do TOF numbers to a non - long range shooter.

Near the end of my swim today as I was nearing 2 miles (under a crap load of rain), I started chuckling thinking about your post "what it would take to get to 2 miles". I came home and looked up my GPS data for different activities to share, just how long it takes to get to 2 miles. I have always been a good distance guy, but now I am a mid-century guy, so these speeds are just to put in context how far 2 miles is, from an aging dudes efforts.

Activity times to travel the same distance as the shooting goal (From Parts of 2 mile+ GPS Tracks):
- Swimming moderately Swolf 48 3525y = Time 1:2o
- Hiking with wife- pace: 24:45 min mile = Time :50 min
- Hiking hard effort with 50lbs high desert slight up hill path to FFP on the left side of the image below caring 20 rounds, M82 kitted 33 lbs, Ruck , LRF, water, Trimble, IFAK, radio = Time o:48
- Backpacking full ultra light weekend kit @ 8K altitude about pace: 17 min per mile = Time 34 min
- Trail running up and down Hills (part of much longer runs) somewhere around pace 10 min per mile @ 200w av = Time 20 min
- Running Flat paved roads longer runs >10mile runs. pace 9+ min or about @ 205w = Time 18-19 min
- Running 2 miles flat trails hard effort av pace 7:30 235watt = Time 15 minutes
- MTB single track very hilly 225watt av = Time 10 minutes
- Road bike Solo no drafting hard effort gently rolling (Canada road) @ 256-288w av = Time 5.7 minutes
- Driving 70 down the freeway (no gps data just did rough math) just about = Time 52 seconds!

Here is what the distance looks like- actual image of FFPs from actual target. You have to pack your stuff up to the 27+ locations, no other access on the bluffs, the 2100-2400 you can use 4wd.


Anyway, 2 miles is crazy far, really, really far... especially Apollo, for a 338.. anyway, the post is just being silly about how crazy that distance is





Details from: Power from STRYD running, PowerTaps on MTB and Road, GPS and other tracking from Fenix HR3, Edge1000, Trimble




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Last edited by diver160651; 03-25-2017 at 7:20 AM..
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Old 03-25-2017, 10:34 AM
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There is a guy that posted on Longerangeonly about a 3 mile Guinness world record they are doing. I think originally it was going to be a 10" plate at 3 miles. They are just gonna load up 10 rounds and hit it 3 times. 408 cheytac / not improved.

Clueless
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post

Anyway, 2 miles is crazy far, really, really far... especially Apollo, for a 338.. anyway, the post is just being silly about how crazy that distance is
Of course it's crazy far. The point I was making was that it is possible to generate a theoretical model for what it would take, not that it would be easy. And I wouldn't want to shoot a 338 at that distance.

I'm saying that if you take your goal and work backwards it's a lot easier to see what will work.

It's like if you were going to open a business. You would want to know what you could afford for rent, cost of goods, labor costs, etc. You figure out a rough framework before you open the doors.





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Old 03-25-2017, 3:14 PM
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Maybe this will provide some insight into how far a 2k shot is. Here is a video of a few long shots from last weeks match. I can see the gong flash on the big screen. The gong strike is audible about 6 seconds after the shot breaks

https://youtu.be/kfxxL48M5GM

Cheers,
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Old 03-25-2017, 3:29 PM
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Maybe this will provide some insight into how far a 2k shot is. Here is a video of a few long shots from last weeks match. I can see the gong flash on the big screen. The gong strike is audible about 6 seconds after the shot breaks



https://youtu.be/kfxxL48M5GM



Cheers,


Ya that seems kinda fast for guys not doing it .. 1 mile 2K etc all relatively easy to get on if someone sets a new shooter up. But we know it would be a bit different if they just tried to figure it out. Once distances, DA and drop is known or shared the mechanics are NOT much different than a 100 yards shot... mirage and wind reads aside. The distances don't scale exactly linearly. So that 2 mile shot with respectable hit probability (not close to reliably repeatable on a small target for me) is many times harder than the 2,500 yard shot- at least in my book.

nice shooting BTW!!!


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Old 03-25-2017, 6:08 PM
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Yes that is CalGun member Focus putting the hurt on a URSA gong at 2054 yards.
The problem with any of this unlimited range type shooting is seeing your missed shots so you can correct for your condition.
We don't have a second gong another 500 yards further away to shoot at so we drive half a mile up the road.
In the time it takes to move 5 shooters your wind will change 7 mils and we don't have a lot of wind up here besides myself.
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:00 PM
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The matches are about 8 miles north of Upper Lake off of hwy 20.

.

What county? Is that by norcal?

Last edited by Mesa Defense; 03-26-2017 at 12:03 PM..
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Old 03-26-2017, 12:25 PM
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The NorCal Matches are held in Lake County and you can see Clear Lake from where we shoot.
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Old 03-27-2017, 1:06 PM
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Copy, thanks LynnJr.
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Old 03-27-2017, 1:41 PM
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We are holding another match April 9th on Sunday and everyone is welcome to shoot or just watch.
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