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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #641  
Old 08-21-2017, 12:21 PM
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^ Yep I got exactly that same email. I replied with the information they requested, but I haven't heard anything else yet.
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AW Registration: The Complete Guide - Read BEFORE you register!!!

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  #642  
Old 08-21-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
^ Yep I got exactly that same email. I replied with the information they requested, but I haven't heard anything else yet.
Okay. Thanks.
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I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
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-Milton Friedman


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Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 08-21-2017 at 12:29 PM..
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  #643  
Old 08-21-2017, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
Okay. Thanks.
Call them or email some of our friends on the forums from Michel. Nice to see you doing some legwork on research for a change, even if it was after the information you originally posted.

It's hard for me to understand someone who is ideologically against registration having so much interest in it, especially how it works. Most anti-reg people or non-compliance people don't seem to care, and why should they? If you are ideologically opposed, then state the case and let the idea of registration itself guide your actions. That shows principle and character, you believe in something and then act on it.

It seems like you are on the fence in reality. No problem, being wrong is probably the best thing you can be in life if you realize it. I am wrong all the damn time on the boards, I have recommended dumb crap in the past and am always willing to admit it and change my mind in the face of new information. No one really cares who is right or wrong on an internet forum, just who is being most honest and providing solid info. None of it is anything but speculation.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
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  #644  
Old 08-21-2017, 1:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Call them or email some of our friends on the forums from Michel. Nice to see you doing some legwork on research for a change, even if it was after the information you originally posted.

It's hard for me to understand someone who is ideologically against registration having so much interest in it, especially how it works. Most anti-reg people or non-compliance people don't seem to care, and why should they? If you are ideologically opposed, then state the case and let the idea of registration itself guide your actions. That shows principle and character, you believe in something and then act on it.

It seems like you are on the fence in reality. No problem, being wrong is probably the best thing you can be in life if you realize it. I am wrong all the damn time on the boards, I have recommended dumb crap in the past and am always willing to admit it and change my mind in the face of new information. No one really cares who is right or wrong on an internet forum, just who is being most honest and providing solid info. None of it is anything but speculation.
If you really think about the spirit of this thread along with my comments from past threads you would realize that while I am not for registration, that doesn't mean that I don't care about looking into it to see if there is something I may learn. The main point from me is seeking new information. If I receive anything from Michel & Associates that would be eye opening to this thread, I will post it.

Also it's fair to list every available option if you choose to keep your rifle. You have listed more options than I, but some of them are either selling them, surrendering them, or destroying them. While they are valid reasons, they are not in our best interest for the purpose of this thread. It's about how you can keep your rifle.
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I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
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A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
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  #645  
Old 08-21-2017, 1:23 PM
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Also it's fair to list every available option if you choose to keep your rifle. You have listed more options than I, but some of them are either selling them, surrendering them, or destroying them. While they are valid reasons, they are not in our best interest for the purpose of this thread. It's about how you can keep your rifle.
Then you obviously missed a few that allow you to keep your rifle, at least in the sense of ownership. Storing out of state and disassembly mean you don't actual have it ready to do it's job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
1) Choices you have:
1. You must remove all evil features
2. Permanently install a magazine that requires you to open the action in order to remove it
3. Disassemble your rifle so it’s not functional
4. Convert to manual operation
5. Store out of state.
6) Rimfire conversion
7) BB v2.0 conversion

List is poorly worded and misleading anyway. #2 seems to be a jumble of fixed mag and BB v2.0 conversion, they are two different things. Why not just word it:

1. Featureless conversion
2. Fixed mag conversion
3. Disassembly
4. Manual conversion
5. Store out of state
6. Rim fire conversion
7. BB v2.0 conversion
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
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  #646  
Old 08-21-2017, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
Then you obviously missed a few that allow you to keep your rifle, at least in the sense of ownership. Storing out of state and disassembly mean you don't actual have it ready to do it's job.



6) Rimfire conversion
7) BB v2.0 conversion

List is poorly worded and misleading anyway. #2 seems to be a jumble of fixed mag and BB v2.0 conversion, they are two different things. Why not just word it:

1. Featureless conversion
2. Fixed mag conversion
3. Disassembly
4. Manual conversion
5. Store out of state
6. Rim fire conversion
7. BB v2.0 conversion
All the times I listed new maglocks, that includes BB 2.0. If anyone has a question about it, they can ask. Nothing is misleading just because I don't go into explicit details about all the different manufactures that now make an alternative solution towards creating a 'fixed magazine' according to the new law.
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Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
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  #647  
Old 08-21-2017, 1:42 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
All the times I listed new maglocks, that includes BB 2.0. If anyone has a question about it, they can ask. Nothing is misleading just because I don't go into explicit details about all the different manufactures that now make an alternative solution towards creating a 'fixed magazine' according to the new law.
It's two different things and it should be worded clearly as to avoid confusion.

1) Fixed magazine (to the letter of the law in SB880 and regs) like a Franklin DFM, "approved" or at least stated in writing from DOJ that this is legal and meets the definition of a fixed mag. Only one of its kind on the market. (please never weld or epoxy anything).

2) A bunch of contraptions that DO allow the removal of the magazine when the action is opened. This is not DOJ approved and has no written confirmation of it meeting the criteria of the law in the DOJ's opinion.

So that's a huge difference. I know Franklin sells it without retainer for removing it topside but it's still in writing that it meets the definition.

Hence I say the list you have is misleading. It's also different in concept- one is a true fixed mag and the other is a loophole workaround that has no legality or illegality.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
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  #648  
Old 08-21-2017, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
It's two different things and it should be worded clearly as to avoid confusion.

1) Fixed magazine (to the letter of the law in SB880 and regs) like a Franklin DFM, "approved" or at least stated in writing from DOJ that this is legal and meets the definition of a fixed mag. Only one of its kind on the market. (please never weld or epoxy anything).

2) A bunch of contraptions that DO allow the removal of the magazine when the action is opened. This is not DOJ approved and has no written confirmation of it meeting the criteria of the law in the DOJ's opinion.

So that's a huge difference. I know Franklin sells it without retainer for removing it topside but it's still in writing that it meets the definition.

Hence I say the list you have is misleading. It's also different in concept- one is a true fixed mag and the other is a loophole workaround that has no legality or illegality.
Then you've got a lot of gun stores that disagree with you. There are more 'fixed mag' solutions coming out as we speak. I can't keep up with the options that become available. I believe your intent here is nothing but trying to compete with me on these 'lists' you keep debating about. Go ahead and list them. I don't care nor care if your list is more detailed than mine. This is a stupid debate.
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In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
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  #649  
Old 08-21-2017, 1:59 PM
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Then you've got a lot of gun stores that disagree with you. There are more 'fixed mag' solutions coming out as we speak. I can't keep up with the options that become available. I believe your intent here is nothing but trying to compete with me on these 'lists' you keep debating about. Go ahead and list them. I don't care nor care if your list is more detailed than mine. This is a stupid debate.
For an advocate of not registering, it's strange that I have to shed light on the "detail" of options that allow you to not register, lol. And I don't care what gun stores or manufactures say, they FUD and lie all the time to sell crap. Only manufacturer that has gone to the trouble to make sure their stuff is legal is Franklin, period. Others lie all the time but you don't seem to care about those "details".

My intent is to spread good information, not garbage.

Someone reading this thread might not understand the "details" of fixed mag vs. BB v2.0 and read your list and think that it's all good to use some maglock that has no legal or illegal confirmation yet. That would be a shame if they became a test case, wouldn't it? Hence the need to be candid and honest for everyone here.

If you don't care about details and informing people (exactly what you stated earlier and now seem to contradict yourself AGAIN), then why post this information in the first place?
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Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
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  #650  
Old 08-21-2017, 2:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
For an advocate of not registering, it's strange that I have to shed light on the "detail" of options that allow you to not register, lol. And I don't care what gun stores or manufactures say, they FUD and lie all the time to sell crap. Only manufacturer that has gone to the trouble to make sure their stuff is legal is Franklin, period. Others lie all the time but you don't seem to care about those "details".

My intent is to spread good information, not garbage.

Someone reading this thread might not understand the "details" of fixed mag vs. BB v2.0 and read your list and think that it's all good to use some maglock that has no legal or illegal confirmation yet. That would be a shame if they became a test case, wouldn't it? Hence the need to be candid and honest for everyone here.

If you don't care about details and informing people (exactly what you stated earlier and now seem to contradict yourself AGAIN), then why post this information in the first place?
Maglock solutions so far:

Mean arms https://www.meanarms.com/products

Armaglock https://www.armaglock2.com/photos/

Patriot http://www.bulletbutton.com/product-p/pmr10.htm

Maglatch AK https://maglatchusa.com/collections/all

F.N.G.R. https://maglatchusa.com/collections/all

DFM magazine https://www.franklinarmory.com/produ...y-10-round-dfm

Raddlock https://www.riflegear.com/p-470-ar-r...ck-gen-x7.aspx

Cross armory https://crossarmory.com/

FC Hook http://www.lapolicegear.com/tp-fc-hook.html

Feel better?
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In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 08-21-2017 at 2:16 PM..
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  #651  
Old 08-21-2017, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
Maglock solutions so far:

Mean arms

Armaglock

Patriot

Maglatch AK

F.N.G.R

DFM magazine

Raddlock

Cross armory

FC Hook

Feel better?
It's not a question of listing all the manufacturers, I agree with you that's pointless. The main distinction is what is legal and known to be legal and what's up in the air:


Legal and confirmed:

Fixed mag conversion (Franklin or the stupid criteria DOJ calls out)


Not confirmed to be legal (or illegal):

BB v2.0 Conversion (Armaglock, Patriot, Maglatch AK, F.N.G.R, Raddlock, Cross armory, FC Hook, whatever else)
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Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
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  #652  
Old 08-21-2017, 2:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
It's not a question of listing all the manufacturers, I agree with you that's pointless. The main distinction is what is legal and known to be legal and what's up in the air:


Legal and confirmed:

Fixed mag conversion (Franklin or the stupid criteria DOJ calls out)


Not confirmed to be legal (or illegal):

BB v2.0 Conversion (Armaglock, Patriot, Maglatch AK, F.N.G.R, Raddlock, Cross armory, FC Hook, whatever else)
Again you are disagreeing with local gun stores. They are being sold as we speak. The gun stores aren't going to sell these products knowing that they are not compliant. Liability. Michel & Associates have even mentioned some that they believe to be in compliant.
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In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 08-21-2017 at 2:20 PM..
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  #653  
Old 08-21-2017, 2:23 PM
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Again you are disagreeing with local gun stores. They are being sold as we speak. The gun stores aren't going to sell these products knowing that they are not compliant. Liability.
You mean like how they sold original BB? Lol. Your faith in these businesses and companies is absurd. And there is no liability, if there is no case law or opinion from the DOJ then there is no crime. Crime comes when people are railroaded and plea out or the case is challenged and a judge decides.

Businesses are just going to pull them from the shelves and these fly by night companies are going to magically disappear. Some of the manufacturers you listed literally are LYING on their websites claiming DOJ approval. These people have no moral character at all. Franklin is the only one that contacted DOJ and has proof in writing that their product meets the definitions.

Why would you possibly side with LGS and fly by night dishonest companies over the well-being and information to the Calguns community? Tell the whole truth or nothing.
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Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
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  #654  
Old 08-21-2017, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
You mean like how they sold original BB? Lol. Your faith in these businesses and companies is absurd. And there is no liability, if there is no case law or opinion from the DOJ then there is no crime. Crime comes when people are railroaded and plea out or the case is challenged and a judge decides.

Businesses are just going to pull them from the shelves and these fly by night companies are going to magically disappear. Some of the manufacturers you listed literally are LYING on their websites claiming DOJ approval. These people have no moral character at all. Franklin is the only one that contacted DOJ and has proof in writing that their product meets the definitions.

Why would you possibly side with LGS and fly by night dishonest companies over the well-being and information to the Calguns community? Tell the whole truth or nothing.
Keep arguing. Your statement is pointless as the BULLET BUTTON is the whole reason all these threads exist because the legislation realized they had to re define the definition of a non detachable magazine. Which is why we have a complaint filed: Rupp v. Becerra. Also Duncan v. Becerra
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In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 08-21-2017 at 2:41 PM..
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  #655  
Old 08-21-2017, 2:32 PM
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Disco. You are nothing but the problem right now arguing over pointless items. Suggestion: Why don't you offer new solutions instead of complaining to me every time I mention something that is considered another option. Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution.
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In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman
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  #656  
Old 08-21-2017, 5:29 PM
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Disco. You are nothing but the problem right now arguing over pointless items. Suggestion: Why don't you offer new solutions instead of complaining to me every time I mention something that is considered another option. Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution.
That's what I am doing, correcting bad information and apparently offering new ideas because they don't appear in your lists. Like rim fire conversions, for instance. I have to assume it's new to you because your not telling people that it's an option.
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Originally Posted by doggie View Post
Someone must put an end to this endless bickering by posting the unadulterated indisputable facts and truth.
"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez
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  #657  
Old 08-21-2017, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
That's what I am doing, correcting bad information and apparently offering new ideas because they don't appear in your lists. Like rim fire conversions, for instance. I have to assume it's new to you because your not telling people that it's an option.
No. I am aware of rim fire. But you are not being honest. If this thread was created by someone else, you may mention what they may have left out but the constant criticism and insults are directed at me for some unknown reason that you don't normally do to anyone else. Go ahead and continue all you want but you look ridiculous doing it only at me. You have an issue. Seriously.

EDIT: Added Rimfire to the list.


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In honor of Fjold:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjold View Post
I've been married so long that I don't even look both ways when I cross the street.
Quote:
A society that aims for equality before liberty, will end with neither equality nor liberty.
-Milton Friedman


Quote:
Its always seemed to me absurd that you make 100% of the people to do something, in order to make sure that 1 or 2% of the people dont behave badly.
-Milton Friedman

Last edited by meno377; 08-21-2017 at 7:25 PM..
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