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  #521  
Old 02-27-2017, 12:20 PM
antiques2 antiques2 is offline
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I have been given a ticket for the above discussion. IT was a error to admit I had the gun.-say what the above quotes are saying that you have nothing illegal in the car. MAKE them get a search warrant. They will lie about how they charge you "and" write it up AND I can't get a CCarry now-maybe because of this and it was 25 years ago. I live in El Dorado county by the way.
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  #522  
Old 01-14-2018, 5:40 PM
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Realizing that this thread is a year old and has been tossed around pretty well, I found myself wondering if any of the new laws in CA applied to this topic. Today, my wife took my car for a quick (<5 mi., if that matters) trip to the store. I did not know she was taking it, and she did not know my guns were in the trunk for tomorrow's range session. If you are driving a car that contains unloaded, legally stored weapons and are pulled over, what is your responsibility as an uniformed driver? How well would "Umm, gee officer, those belong to my husband and I didn't even know they were in there" play if the cops chose to conduct a search (as highly unlikely as that is)? I think it would come down to the individual officer as to how things would proceed. This mistake on my part won't happen again, but folks, we are at the mercy of the police when stopped. Ostensibly, they are bound to follow the law (as are we), but remember that your civil rights come into play after the arrest, in court. You can argue them all day by the roadside, but each LEO has a certain amount of discretion they can exercise. Just sayin'...
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  #523  
Old 01-14-2018, 6:18 PM
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You are under no responsibility, as an uninformed driver, or as a knowing driver, to disclose that you have weapons in the vehicle.

You can't disclose something that you don't know, but this DOES reinforce the common thread of never consenting to a search.

"I have nothing illegal in the vehicle"
Really? Were your windows partially down when you were parked on that hot day last week? What about those two hood rats that were standing by your car when you got back? Do you know for an absolute fact that one of them didn't panic when he saw you walking toward them and drop a baggie of drugs into your back seat?
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  #524  
Old 01-15-2018, 6:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jhansman View Post
Realizing that this thread is a year old and has been tossed around pretty well, I found myself wondering if any of the new laws in CA applied to this topic.
Statutes regarding transportation of firearms within and outside of vehicles have not changed.
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Originally Posted by jhansman View Post
Today, my wife took my car for a quick (<5 mi., if that matters) trip to the store. I did not know she was taking it, and she did not know my guns were in the trunk for tomorrow's range session.
Community property; community use. She has her own keys or direct access to yours. The problem here is not some hypothetical rogue cop who ostensibly is supposed to follow the law. The problem here is, you didn't show your wife the common courtesy of letting her know you are storing guns and ammo in the trunk. If you had, the concerns you expressed go away.

Now, flowers and candy for the wife, along with an apology and a promise that you won't again put her at such risk.
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  #525  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:23 PM
2nd amendment believer 2nd amendment believer is offline
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This may be a mute point after 11 pages of replies, however, a couple years ago I was riding shotgun with my GF driving her VW on our way down 395 to Bishop from Nevada County. A county Mounty pulled up along side and refused to pass. The turn around came up and he started to slow as if to take the u-turn. Suddenly he thought better of it and sped up and got back behind us and followed for about a mile, presumably while running our plates for priors, etc, (which we have none), then lit us up. He said our license plate was missing from the front. VW GTIs never shipped with a place to affix one and so it came that way, and when the plates arrived, one was never applied to the front. He also stated that a brake light was out. I carry spare bulbs, and so I claimed that I would fix it real quick while they waited so no ticket was needed. He then asked for license, registration and insurance. I found the paperwork in the glove box, except the insurance papers were from last year, and the new ones buried somewhere in the same glove box and I continued to search. He then asked if we would mind if he searched the car.

My GF asked why he needed to do that to which he had no answer. She looked at me and I shook my head out of principle. He then asked why we would not allow him to search the vehicle, and I replied for her that he we were on our way to work a festival and that we had no time for messing about for no reason, and that we know that he needed either a warrent or probable cause of some kind of illegal activity and that we all knew he had neither. He could clearly see that I have a police style Motorola radio in my hand and I then got on it and told the 2 trucks that were now passing me that we were being pulled over and illegally being searched. They pulled off to the side and were going to wait. The 2 leos could clearly see that we ahd 2 24' box trucks and witnesses. I told them to drive on in case something illegal happens, thereby separating our "party" and perhaps casting some kind of reasonable doubt about the contents of the trucks, and dividing their attention between us and the departing trucks. It confused them.

The one offending leo then took our paperwork to the patrol SUV and proceeded to verify our info, and then presumably, try to get a warrant, unsuccessfully, due toe the 30 minutes we waited. He then returned to the vehicle and tried one more time to get permission at which time I clearly stated that he absolutely did NOT have permission to search the vehicle. He then proceeded to write us up for the tail light, and refused to let me replace the bulb there on the side while he waited to clear it, cited us for the license plate missing from the front, and then cited us for not having proof of insurance. My GF said we did have it in the glove box AND that it was online and he could call it in and he would have the proof enough that we are insured. He refused to check and refused to let us continue and the violations written on the citations read whatever number of the vehicle code followed by the letter "C" which means that a court appearance is needed to clear the citations, which is to say that we had to drive all the way back to Lee Vining to go to court.

Now the good part: We contacted a local LEO, a highway patrol. He clarified the part about the "C" designation, and then also informed us that highway interdiction is how these little tax revenue deficient counties prey upon anybody passing through and are searching for drugs and primarily weed in order to confiscate property to auction off for bolstering the coffers. We dealt with the citations without having to go to Lee Vining by getting them signed off locally and sending a complaint letter to the court along with the corrected citations and a request for a response in writing if this was not sufficient, and a detailed complaint about the offending officer. We then, as per my lawyer's advise, filed a written complaint with the District attorney and with the County Sherrif's office that this leo worked for. He was given time off without pay while this was investigated and BOTH officers in the vehicle were eventually terminated. So, you DO have rights, and you DO have the power to thwart illegal efforts of over zealous law enforcement hell bent on relieving you of your property and liberty...for money, and best of all, you have power enough to financially impact them severely in the negative!

ALWAYS file a written complaint with the DA and the department which they work for as at a minimum, they get no raise that next 6 months if they have ONE complaint. If they have many, it may be their undoing.
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  #526  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd amendment believer View Post
This may be a mute point after 11 pages of replies, however, a couple years ago I was riding shotgun with my GF driving her VW on our way down 395 to Bishop from Nevada County. A county Mounty pulled up along side and refused to pass. The turn around came up and he started to slow as if to take the u-turn. Suddenly he thought better of it and sped up and got back behind us and followed for about a mile, presumably while running our plates for priors, etc, (which we have none), then lit us up. He said our license plate was missing from the front. VW GTIs never shipped with a place to affix one and so it came that way, and when the plates arrived, one was never applied to the front. He also stated that a brake light was out. I carry spare bulbs, and so I claimed that I would fix it real quick while they waited so no ticket was needed. He then asked for license, registration and insurance. I found the paperwork in the glove box, except the insurance papers were from last year, and the new ones buried somewhere in the same glove box and I continued to search. He then asked if we would mind if he searched the car.

My GF asked why he needed to do that to which he had no answer. She looked at me and I shook my head out of principle. He then asked why we would not allow him to search the vehicle, and I replied for her that he we were on our way to work a festival and that we had no time for messing about for no reason, and that we know that he needed either a warrent or probable cause of some kind of illegal activity and that we all knew he had neither. He could clearly see that I have a police style Motorola radio in my hand and I then got on it and told the 2 trucks that were now passing me that we were being pulled over and illegally being searched. They pulled off to the side and were going to wait. The 2 leos could clearly see that we ahd 2 24' box trucks and witnesses. I told them to drive on in case something illegal happens, thereby separating our "party" and perhaps casting some kind of reasonable doubt about the contents of the trucks, and dividing their attention between us and the departing trucks. It confused them.

The one offending leo then took our paperwork to the patrol SUV and proceeded to verify our info, and then presumably, try to get a warrant, unsuccessfully, due toe the 30 minutes we waited. He then returned to the vehicle and tried one more time to get permission at which time I clearly stated that he absolutely did NOT have permission to search the vehicle. He then proceeded to write us up for the tail light, and refused to let me replace the bulb there on the side while he waited to clear it, cited us for the license plate missing from the front, and then cited us for not having proof of insurance. My GF said we did have it in the glove box AND that it was online and he could call it in and he would have the proof enough that we are insured. He refused to check and refused to let us continue and the violations written on the citations read whatever number of the vehicle code followed by the letter "C" which means that a court appearance is needed to clear the citations, which is to say that we had to drive all the way back to Lee Vining to go to court.

Now the good part: We contacted a local LEO, a highway patrol. He clarified the part about the "C" designation, and then also informed us that highway interdiction is how these little tax revenue deficient counties prey upon anybody passing through and are searching for drugs and primarily weed in order to confiscate property to auction off for bolstering the coffers. We dealt with the citations without having to go to Lee Vining by getting them signed off locally and sending a complaint letter to the court along with the corrected citations and a request for a response in writing if this was not sufficient, and a detailed complaint about the offending officer. We then, as per my lawyer's advise, filed a written complaint with the District attorney and with the County Sherrif's office that this leo worked for. He was given time off without pay while this was investigated and BOTH officers in the vehicle were eventually terminated. So, you DO have rights, and you DO have the power to thwart illegal efforts of over zealous law enforcement hell bent on relieving you of your property and liberty...for money, and best of all, you have power enough to financially impact them severely in the negative!

ALWAYS file a written complaint with the DA and the department which they work for as at a minimum, they get no raise that next 6 months if they have ONE complaint. If they have many, it may be their undoing.
There are several things wrong with your posting that really require correction, and just a few things that you actually got right.

As to what you got right:

1) Search Authority - When an officer asks for consent to search, that's a voluntary search authority. You are free to deny consent and that means either no search, or the officer must find another source of legal standing.

2) Summary Repair - If you had the ability to quickly make a repair, a professional officer should allow that to occur. The objective here is highway safety and that goal is better met if you drive away from the stop with a functional taillight. The officer hasn't violated anything by writing the citation. It's just not the best solution.

Here's what you got wrong:

1) Front license plate - All vehicles sold in California are required to be fitted for a front license plate. If your GTI was lawfully sold in California, it had the fitting for a front plate. If you bought the vehicle elsewhere and registered it in California, it was your responsibility to fit the front plate prior to being stopped.

2) Search warrants - There are very few circumstances where a search warrant is required to search a vehicle. A search warrant requires "Probable Cause", but then if an officer possesses "Probable Cause", they may lawfully search the vehicle without need of a warrant (refer to U.S. v Ross).

3) Proof of Insurance - The law requires you to provide the proof of insurance "upon demand." Offering the possibility that you may provide such proof after a search of your vehicle is not "upon demand." California law does allow you to provide proof of insurance using a mobile electronic device (like a cell phone or tablet), but the responsibility is placed upon you to do the "providing", it's not the responsibility of the officer to do the "seeking." (refer to Vehicle Code section 16028(a)).

4) Complaints - It's certainly your right to make a complaint if you feel aggrieved by an officer's actions. But a existence of a complaint is not going to prevent them from receiving a pay raise, or any other benefit, for the next six months. Basing any sanction on the existence of a complaint, or any number of complaints, violates the Peace Officer Bill of Rights. Sanctions can only be imposed upon findings of wrongdoing, and the sanction must be proportional to the substantiated finding of wrongdoing. (Refer to Government Code section 3304 and Skelley v State Personnel Board).
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  #527  
Old 01-22-2018, 9:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd amendment believer View Post
This may be a mute point after 11 pages of replies, however, a couple years ago I was riding shotgun with my GF driving her VW on our way down 395 to Bishop from Nevada County. A county Mounty pulled up along side and refused to pass. The turn around came up and he started to slow as if to take the u-turn. Suddenly he thought better of it and sped up and got back behind us and followed for about a mile, presumably while running our plates for priors, etc, (which we have none), then lit us up. He said our license plate was missing from the front. VW GTIs never shipped with a place to affix one and so it came that way, and when the plates arrived, one was never applied to the front. He also stated that a brake light was out. I carry spare bulbs, and so I claimed that I would fix it real quick while they waited so no ticket was needed. He then asked for license, registration and insurance. I found the paperwork in the glove box, except the insurance papers were from last year, and the new ones buried somewhere in the same glove box and I continued to search. He then asked if we would mind if he searched the car.

My GF asked why he needed to do that to which he had no answer. She looked at me and I shook my head out of principle. He then asked why we would not allow him to search the vehicle, and I replied for her that he we were on our way to work a festival and that we had no time for messing about for no reason, and that we know that he needed either a warrent or probable cause of some kind of illegal activity and that we all knew he had neither. He could clearly see that I have a police style Motorola radio in my hand and I then got on it and told the 2 trucks that were now passing me that we were being pulled over and illegally being searched. They pulled off to the side and were going to wait. The 2 leos could clearly see that we ahd 2 24' box trucks and witnesses. I told them to drive on in case something illegal happens, thereby separating our "party" and perhaps casting some kind of reasonable doubt about the contents of the trucks, and dividing their attention between us and the departing trucks. It confused them.

The one offending leo then took our paperwork to the patrol SUV and proceeded to verify our info, and then presumably, try to get a warrant, unsuccessfully, due toe the 30 minutes we waited. He then returned to the vehicle and tried one more time to get permission at which time I clearly stated that he absolutely did NOT have permission to search the vehicle. He then proceeded to write us up for the tail light, and refused to let me replace the bulb there on the side while he waited to clear it, cited us for the license plate missing from the front, and then cited us for not having proof of insurance. My GF said we did have it in the glove box AND that it was online and he could call it in and he would have the proof enough that we are insured. He refused to check and refused to let us continue and the violations written on the citations read whatever number of the vehicle code followed by the letter "C" which means that a court appearance is needed to clear the citations, which is to say that we had to drive all the way back to Lee Vining to go to court.

Now the good part: We contacted a local LEO, a highway patrol. He clarified the part about the "C" designation, and then also informed us that highway interdiction is how these little tax revenue deficient counties prey upon anybody passing through and are searching for drugs and primarily weed in order to confiscate property to auction off for bolstering the coffers. We dealt with the citations without having to go to Lee Vining by getting them signed off locally and sending a complaint letter to the court along with the corrected citations and a request for a response in writing if this was not sufficient, and a detailed complaint about the offending officer. We then, as per my lawyer's advise, filed a written complaint with the District attorney and with the County Sherrif's office that this leo worked for. He was given time off without pay while this was investigated and BOTH officers in the vehicle were eventually terminated. So, you DO have rights, and you DO have the power to thwart illegal efforts of over zealous law enforcement hell bent on relieving you of your property and liberty...for money, and best of all, you have power enough to financially impact them severely in the negative!

ALWAYS file a written complaint with the DA and the department which they work for as at a minimum, they get no raise that next 6 months if they have ONE complaint. If they have many, it may be their undoing.
So what was the "complaint" about specifically?

The stop was clearly legal. You admitted to not having a front license plate...

There was no search of the vehicle, and the driver received a citation for the three violations...... End of story.

If you were detained for 30 minutes why didn't you look for and find the proof of insurance your GF said was in the glove box? 30 minutes is certainly enough time to find a simple piece of paper?

Your fantasy story about:

" He was given time off without pay while this was investigated and BOTH officers in the vehicle were eventually terminated."

Is simply a fantasy. The law does not allow Peace officers to be suspended without pay after a simple citizens complaint.

Additionally it is also against the law for the an agency to release the "consequences" of any citizens complaint to the public. Even to the person making the complaint.

All that will be released is whether the complaint was "Sustained" "Unfounded" or "Exonerated". Nothing more.

Nice fantasy story....
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  #528  
Old 09-05-2018, 9:36 AM
Mark C. Friedman Mark C. Friedman is offline
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Default In California, would it be wise to carry a rifle in a hard-sided lockable rifle case

The question comes up:
"Do I have the enclose my unloaded rifle, in a hard-sided rifle case, with a means to lock he case, when transporting my unloaded rifle?"

Looking at CA Penal Code, Section 26405(c)
"When the firearm is either in a locked container or encased....."

Looking at that CA Penal Code Section, which is an exemption regarding carrying "firearms," (not a handgun), in an automobile, is a bit murky. The word "encased," is problematic.

"Encased" like in the manufacturer's shipping box? It is assumed the rifle has a cable lock secured and it is unloaded. Would a "gun sock" work to "enclose" the rifle?

A rookie police officer, not familiar with this exemption for the "gun sock" might cause a problem on the side of the road.

I conclude with the following advice, in California, ALWAYS carry ANY firearm in a lockable, hard-sided case!
What do you think?
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  #529  
Old 09-05-2018, 9:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark C. Friedman View Post
The question comes up:
"Do I have the enclose my unloaded rifle, in a hard-sided rifle case, with a means to lock he case, when transporting my unloaded rifle?"

Looking at CA Penal Code, Section 26405(c)
"When the firearm is either in a locked container or encased....."

Looking at that CA Penal Code Section, which is an exemption regarding carrying "firearms," (not a handgun), in an automobile, is a bit murky. The word "encased," is problematic.

"Encased" like in the manufacturer's shipping box? It is assumed the rifle has a cable lock secured and it is unloaded. Would a "gun sock" work to "enclose" the rifle?

A rookie police officer, not familiar with this exemption for the "gun sock" might cause a problem on the side of the road.

I conclude with the following advice, in California, ALWAYS carry ANY firearm in a lockable, hard-sided case!
What do you think?
No”gunsock” exemption. I think your “murkiness” is personal, not legal. CA PC 16505 (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01720180SB1100)
Quote:
For purposes of Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 26400) of Division 5 of Title 4, a firearm is “encased” when that firearm is enclosed in a case that is expressly made for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no part of that firearm exposed.
CCW guns need not be carried in a lockable case.

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Last edited by Dvrjon; 09-05-2018 at 10:49 AM..
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  #530  
Old 09-08-2018, 1:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark C. Friedman View Post
I conclude with the following advice, in California, ALWAYS carry ANY firearm in a lockable, hard-sided case!
What do you think?
There is no requirement that the case be a hard-sided one.

There are several soft cases that can also be locked and would meet the legal requirements for transport of an unloaded rifle.

And BTW, having a cable lock thru the action is meaningless regarding transportation laws & requirements.
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  #531  
Old 09-23-2018, 8:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
For only the guns listed on your CCW.
Almost sure that a CCW only has one weapon listed/dedicated to CC. In CA anyway.
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  #532  
Old 09-23-2018, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsuburban View Post
Almost sure that a CCW only has one weapon listed/dedicated to CC. In CA anyway.
Depends on the issuing agency - some allow many to be listed.
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  #533  
Old 09-23-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by gsuburban View Post
Almost sure that a CCW only has one weapon listed/dedicated to CC. In CA anyway.
There's no statutory min or max, so it is left to the IA. Some limit to only three, as that's the number of slots on the license.



Others approve more and list them on the reverse.

Also, please see page 5 of the state application, which provides three slots but also allows additional pages for more guns: https://www.sjpd.org/pdf_forms/bof_4...ion_112012.pdf
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