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  #1  
Old 09-14-2018, 9:59 AM
mikeinla mikeinla is offline
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Default Registering 80% handgun????

The saw a post about 80% lowers. Can you still build and REGISTER these?

Last edited by mikeinla; 10-01-2018 at 4:46 AM..
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2018, 10:02 AM
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Looks like A is for one already finished and B is for one that you haven't finished yet. Since "plan on building" use B.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:26 PM
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I believe the law or rule is that you can no longer make 80% until you request a Serial Number.

A) seems to be for firearms built prior to 7/1/2018 that didnt have a serial number on them (therefore they were not registered using the self assigned serial numbers).

B) seems to be for any 80% builds that take place after the 07/01/2018.

I may be wrong though.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
I believe the law or rule is that you can no longer make 80% until you request a Serial Number.

A) seems to be for firearms built prior to 7/1/2018 that didnt have a serial number on them (therefore they were not registered using the self assigned serial numbers).

B) seems to be for any 80% builds that take place after the 07/01/2018.

I may be wrong though.
This is correct, and with option B, you have 30 days to build, engrave, and upload photos, not 10.
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:52 PM
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See CA Code of Regs section 5518.

(2) An applicant intending to manufacture or assemble a firearm on or after July 1, 2018, shall engrave, cast, stamp (impress), or permanently place in a conspicuous location on the receiver or frame of the firearm the unique serial number issued by the Department within 30 calendar days of receiving the unique serial number from the Department. The
applicant’s date of receipt of the unique serial number shall be the date on the email containing the electronic notice that tells the applicant to log into the applicant’s CFARS
account to view the electronic correspondence sent by the Department.
(A) The applicant shall only manufacture or assemble the firearm after the Department determines that the applicant is eligible to possess a firearm and issues the applicant a unique serial number.
(B) Within 10 calendar days of manufacturing or assembling the firearm, the applicant shall engrave, cast, stamp (impress), or permanently place in a conspicuous
location on the receiver or frame of the firearm the unique serial number for the self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm. Hence, at the latest, the applicant shall finish
manufacturing or assembling the firearm within 20 calendar days from the date the Department issued the applicant a unique serial number so that the applicant can complete the entire engraving process within the 30-day period prescribed by the Department.
(C) For firearms built on or after July 1, 2018, an applicant only has access to the Department-issued unique serial number for 30 days from the date of its issuance. If
the applicant does not manufacture or assemble and engrave the firearm with its unique serial number within the 30 days provided by the Department, the unique serial number will become invalid and the applicant must reapply for a new unique serial number.
(D) If the applicant fails to upload the proper digital images of the firearm or does not properly apply the unique serial number to the firearm before the 30-day period expires, the applicant will have until the end of the thirtieth day to provide the correct information to the Department.
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Old 09-14-2018, 2:15 PM
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Part B is messed up

I had a problem trying to get a serial number for a home built. In the application they require a date of built and it is required to be a future date. I do not know how you can put a date down on such in complete information and required time line.
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Old 09-14-2018, 3:11 PM
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Default Registering 80% handgun????

I though with the 3.7 ounce requirement building plastic frames 80%'ers after 7/1/18 was a no go????



Quote:
29180. (a) For purposes of this chapter, ďmanufacturingĒ or ďassemblingĒ a firearm means to fabricate or construct a firearm, or to fit together the component parts of a firearm to construct a firearm.

(b) Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person manufacturing or assembling the firearm shall do all of the following:

(1) Apply to the Department of Justice for a unique serial number or other mark of identification pursuant to Section 29182.

(2) (A) Within 10 days of manufacturing or assembling a firearm in accordance with paragraph (1), the unique serial number or other mark of identification provided by the department shall be engraved or permanently affixed to the firearm in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

Last edited by BONECUTTER; 09-14-2018 at 6:21 PM..
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  #8  
Old 09-14-2018, 3:26 PM
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Doesn't one also have to send a second form, the FIREARMS ELIGIBILITY APPLICATION, or something like that when we request a serial number from the DOJ?

This whole process is a bit confusing/overwhelming. Does someone have experience with this and has successfully completed this from start to finish?

A guide would be excellent.
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Old 09-14-2018, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamAnderson View Post
Doesn't one also have to send a second form, the FIREARMS ELIGIBILITY APPLICATION, or something like that when we request a serial number from the DOJ?

This whole process is a bit confusing/overwhelming. Does someone have experience with this and has successfully completed this from start to finish?

A guide would be excellent.
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/usna
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Old 09-14-2018, 8:55 PM
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Look at post 16 in this thread. I've also seen a couple other post stating they got the same type of letter.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1472009
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Old 09-14-2018, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
Look at post 16 in this thread. I've also seen a couple other post stating they got the same type of letter.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1472009
It's because the applicants indicated they are making a semi-auto pistol.

CA unsafe handgun laws requires semi-auto pistols made in CA to have everything that was reported CA DOJ is asking for.

In order to not go through that, the applicant needs to indicate they are making a dimensionally complaint bolt-action single shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-open single shot pistol.

In additon, note that...

After CA DOJ issues their marking info, the applicant has up to 30 days to change the configuration of the firearm. This requires updating the firearm's info via CFARS and uploading pictures of the firearm in it's new configuration. [11 CCR 5522]

It is unknown... if this is CA DOJ allowing conversion of an exempt handgun into a non-exempt handgun configuration or if this is a trap, design to get people to incrimidate themselves by providing proof of making an unsafe handgun. {lawyers need to go over this}

It is also unknown... if the 30 day window means CA DOJ will view any modification to configuration outside of the 30 day window to be an illegal modification. {lawyers need to go over this}


So, in essence, in order be CA legal, the 80% made into a handgun has to be a dimesionally compliant bolt-action single shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-open single shot pistol and needs to be kept that way while in CA; otherwise you'll violate CA unsafe handgun laws.
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Last edited by Quiet; 09-14-2018 at 10:13 PM..
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2018, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BONECUTTER View Post
I though with the 3.7 ounce requirement building plastic frames 80%'ers after 7/1/18 was a no go????
The FCU is the serialized firearm in this case, and is metal not plastic.
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2018, 6:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
It's because the applicants indicated they are making a semi-auto pistol.

CA unsafe handgun laws requires semi-auto pistols made in CA to have everything that was reported CA DOJ is asking for.

In order to not go through that, the applicant needs to indicate they are making a dimensionally complaint bolt-action single shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-open single shot pistol.

In additon, note that...

After CA DOJ issues their marking info, the applicant has up to 30 days to change the configuration of the firearm. This requires updating the firearm's info via CFARS and uploading pictures of the firearm in it's new configuration. [11 CCR 5522]

It is unknown... if this is CA DOJ allowing conversion of an exempt handgun into a non-exempt handgun configuration or if this is a trap, design to get people to incrimidate themselves by providing proof of making an unsafe handgun. {lawyers need to go over this}

It is also unknown... if the 30 day window means CA DOJ will view any modification to configuration outside of the 30 day window to be an illegal modification. {lawyers need to go over this}


So, in essence, in order be CA legal, the 80% made into a handgun has to be a dimesionally compliant bolt-action single shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-open single shot pistol and needs to be kept that way while in CA; otherwise you'll violate CA unsafe handgun laws.
Did you notice this little bit at the bottom of the letter referenced in the linked thread / post #16:

Quote:
To allow
certification of a single-shot pistol, the manufacturer must complete the following requirements:
• Attach a positive manually operated safety device, as determined by standards relating to
imported guns promulgated by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
(see Pen. Code, ß 31910, subd. (b)(1));
• Meet the State’s firing requirements for handguns (see Pen. Code, ßß 31905; 31910,
subd. (b)(2)); and
• Meet the State’s drop safety requirements for handguns (see Pen. Code, ßß 31900; 31910,
subd. (b)(3)).)

PLEASE TAKE NOTICE that meeting the State’s firing and drop safety requirements requires
the submission of three sample firearms to a Department of Justice Approved Laboratory for
testing and approval. If the engraving and testing requirements are not met within the limitations
imposed for validation of a Department of Justice issued serial number under California Code of
Regulations, Title 11, section 5518 (30 days if the handgun has not yet been manufactured; 10
days if the handgun was manufactured prior to requesting a serial number) the serial number will
become invalid.
They are making this stuff up as they go along.

You could say that it applies to manufacturers that want to sell their single shot pistols, therefore the certification
.. but at the very end on the last paragraph:

Quote:
If the engraving and testing requirements are not met within the limitations
imposed for validation of a Department of Justice issued serial number under California Code of
Regulations, Title 11, section 5518 (30 days if the handgun has not yet been manufactured; 10
days if the handgun was manufactured prior to requesting a serial number) the serial number will
become invalid.
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  #14  
Old 09-15-2018, 7:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
Did you notice this little bit at the bottom of the letter referenced in the linked thread / post #16:



They are making this stuff up as they go along.

You could say that it applies to manufacturers that want to sell their single shot pistols, therefore the certification
.. but at the very end on the last paragraph:
Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, they find a way.
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  #15  
Old 09-15-2018, 7:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, they find a way.
Yup.

If that section applied only to manufacturers that intend to sell, they would already have to be licensed manufacturers, meaning their would already apply serial numbers per federal law, not needing CA provided serial numbers.

So...
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Old 09-15-2018, 7:37 AM
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Has anyone done a build since July 1st (handgun type)?

If so could you please tell us the story and process?


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  #17  
Old 09-17-2018, 11:46 PM
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Tagged
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2018, 4:17 AM
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Also tagged
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  #19  
Old 09-18-2018, 2:19 PM
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chirp
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  #20  
Old 09-18-2018, 3:55 PM
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I wouldn't expect any good news for builds after the 7/1 date. Ones with DOJ numbers on them that is.
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Old 09-20-2018, 9:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnk518 View Post
Has anyone done a build since July 1st (handgun type)?

If so could you please tell us the story and process?


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Anyone?
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  #22  
Old 09-20-2018, 10:29 AM
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So the new law has killed the 80% market it appears. Almost 2 months in and no one has built an 80%? I wasnít that interested (would prefer to buy a Glock) but since we canít get a 43 in Cali, I WAS considering the SS80. I have no idea how to legally build one now.


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Old 09-29-2018, 7:57 PM
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BUMP
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  #24  
Old 09-29-2018, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeinla View Post
But how would it be legal?
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Old 09-29-2018, 8:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeinla View Post
????? By registering it by the end of the year.
Walk me through the steps if you dont mind
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Old 09-29-2018, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
But how would it be legal?
The firearm portion of a Sig is not polymer. Don't know how far that theory will go with the CA DOJ, but that's the way the BATFE views it.
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Old 09-29-2018, 8:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
The firearm portion of a Sig is not polymer. Don't know how far that theory will go with the CA DOJ, but that's the way the BATFE views it.
Ca views an unfinished frame or receiver as a firearm now I am not even talking about the whole polymer argument... I am talking about the whole 80% thing... the deadline, and the registration.

Many of you know I would love to build... but I am not seeing how I can continue to build and remain compliant.
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Old 09-29-2018, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MosinVirus View Post
Ca views an unfinished frame or receiver as a firearm now I am not even talking about the whole polymer argument... I am talking about the whole 80% thing... the deadline, and the registration.

Many of you know I would love to build... but I am not seeing how I can continue to build and remain compliant.
Oh, did that go through? I have not been paying attention lately, kinda gave up after the July deadline.
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Old 09-30-2018, 1:25 PM
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So...whoís gonna be the guinea pig and test our ever mindful senate? I can not see how to build an 80% in California. Each requirement is in direct conflict with the previous requirement.

We should build a virtual one step by step to see where the law gets confusing.


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Old 09-30-2018, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeinla View Post
You have to the end of the year according to the DOJ, BUT now when you register they have to assign you serial numbers
Again, walk me through it...

As far as I understand it:

1. Before building 80% handgun I must request serial number by explaining what I am building.

Problem 1: it cannot be semi-auto... has to be single shot.

2. Once built and engraved I have 30 days to show any changes to configuration.

Problem 2: now they defined manufacturing, so if I convert to semi-auto I violate that law anyway.

So, walk me through how you think it is still possible.
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Old 09-30-2018, 7:58 PM
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It does not have to be single shot. Where did you get that idea?

Iím in the middle of this process now for my P320 and have submitted my pictures. They are currently in review.


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Old 09-30-2018, 8:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Calciferr View Post
It does not have to be single shot. Where did you get that idea?
You can not legally manufacture a handgun in California unless it is on the roster, or is in roster-exempt format.
Roster exempt format includes dimensionally-compliant single shot with break-top bolt-action.

Even with an alloy frame, you can not simply machine and assemble a semi-automatic.
Polymer is a whole separate can of worms and there is no legal way around it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 09-30-2018, 8:08 PM
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This is 100% not true.

So the DOJ just magically gave me a serial number to apply to my semi auto, multi cal P320 when itís against the law? These are all things I filled out in the application form.

You should create a CFARS account just to look at the USNA application process. It details out everything.

There is a difference between manufacturing for sale and for person use/self manufacturing.

You can never sell or give away a self manufactured firearm. Itís your forever so Iím pretty sure what you talking about it manufacturing for sale.

Donít forget you need micro stamping as well....... lol


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
You can not legally manufacture a handgun in California unless it is on the roster, or is in roster-exempt format.
Roster exempt format includes dimensionally-compliant single shot with break-top bolt-action.

Even with an alloy frame, you can not simply machine and assemble a semi-automatic.
Polymer is a whole separate can of worms and there is no legal way around it.





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Old 09-30-2018, 8:10 PM
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Lost cause
Not worth the time explaining it for the 1,000th time.

Sorry, you are 100% incorrect.
You should listen to MosinVirus... he's been manufacturing 1911's for years and he knows the laws.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 09-30-2018, 8:10 PM
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Also one other note is itís not on or off roster when itís an 80%

Itís off roster if itís made by Sig.

Mine says mine name in the frame.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
You can not legally manufacture a handgun in California unless it is on the roster, or is in roster-exempt format.
Roster exempt format includes dimensionally-compliant single shot with break-top bolt-action.

Even with an alloy frame, you can not simply machine and assemble a semi-automatic.
Polymer is a whole separate can of worms and there is no legal way around it.





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Old 09-30-2018, 8:12 PM
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You can think what you want and Iíll follow the instruction given to me by the CA DOJ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Lost cause
Not worth the time explaining it for the 1,000th time.

Sorry, you are 100% incorrect.
You should listen to MosinVirus... he's been manufacturing 1911's for years and he knows the laws.





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Old 09-30-2018, 8:16 PM
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Old 09-30-2018, 8:16 PM
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Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calciferr View Post
You can think what you want and Iíll follow the instruction given to me by the CA DOJ.
DOJ has instructed people that they can have a relative in another state send them a gun and they can file an OpLaw.
That is a federal felony.

A frame with your name on it is not on the roster.
It is illegal to manufacture an off-roster handgun if it is not in a roster-exempt format. No semiautomatic is roster-exempt.

You are wrong, and you are misunderstanding the DOJ.

I'm done with you.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #39  
Old 09-30-2018, 8:25 PM
Calciferr Calciferr is offline
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Wrong again. There are only certain family member you can get an off roster gun from. You canít get one from a brother or sister for example.

I have a Colt 1911 from my father legal transferred to a FFL, waited my 10 days and picked it up.

All that being said you should really make sure you know what your talking about before you talk about it.

Iím no expert but I have first hand experience in both 80% and off roster PPT family transfer from out of state.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
DOJ has instructed people that they can have a relative in another state send them a gun and they can file an OpLaw.

That is a federal felony.



A frame with your name on it is not on the roster.

It is illegal to manufacture an off-roster handgun if it is not in a roster-exempt format. No semiautomatic is roster-exempt.



You are wrong, and you are misunderstanding the DOJ.



I'm done with you.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #40  
Old 09-30-2018, 8:34 PM
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ajb78 ajb78 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calciferr View Post
Wrong again. There are only certain family member you can get an off roster gun from. You canít get one from a brother or sister for example.

I have a Colt 1911 from my father legal transferred to a FFL, waited my 10 days and picked it up.

All that being said you should really make sure you know what your talking about before you talk about it.

Iím no expert but I have first hand experience in both 80% and off roster PPT family transfer from out of state.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, yes you should. Cokebottle said OpLaw, not DROS.
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