Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:10 AM
cockedandglocked's Avatar
cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
I'm with stupid ☝️
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 14,737
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default Lining up pistol night sights... Fast.

Curious how other people train for this. When it's pitch black, and all you can see are the 3 dots and the target, what technique do you use to line them up on the target as fast as possible?

What I've been doing is this: point the pistol with the muzzle intentionally high, so the single dot is well above the other two. Then, I (relatively slowly) drop the muzzle to line up the 3 dots, never losing sight of any of the 3 during the process.

The concern is that when drawing, if I only see the rear dots, I might not be able to quickly adjust my aim if I don't even know where my front dot is.

Just curious if there's a better technique I should know.

Also, a related side question, would a differently-colored front dot help at all? All my night sights are currently same-color front and rear. Cheers!
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:17 AM
rivraton's Avatar
rivraton rivraton is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Merced County
Posts: 1,215
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Laser...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-16-2018, 12:59 AM
cockedandglocked's Avatar
cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
I'm with stupid ☝️
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 14,737
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rivraton View Post
Laser...
I do have a lasermax in one of my pistols, I do love it but I've lately grown more fond of my pistols with night sights, I'm not sure why. Maybe because they're "always on"
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-16-2018, 5:23 AM
SarcoBlaster SarcoBlaster is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,478
iTrader: 66 / 100%
Default

How are you identifying your target if it's pitch black and all you can see are the tritium vials on your sights?

I'd suggest investing in a quality handheld or weapon-mounted light. Once you turn the light on to ID your target, your sights will be silhouetted and it won't matter if they're plain, tritium, fiber optic, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-16-2018, 6:40 AM
tanks's Avatar
tanks tanks is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,743
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Curious how other people train for this. When it's pitch black, and all you can see are the 3 dots and the target, what technique do you use to line them up on the target as fast as possible?..
Train yourself so the gun comes up with the sights already aligned when you draw.
__________________
For Sale - Reloading Supplies Powder and Xtreme bullets, For Trade Federal Primers
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1191755
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-16-2018, 6:51 AM
SAD338 SAD338 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 290
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

As someone already said, why would you be aiming at something that you haven't illuminated and identified? That is how those 'I shot my kid because I thought he was a burglar' accidents happen.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-16-2018, 7:16 AM
LCU1670's Avatar
LCU1670 LCU1670 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Coachella Valley
Posts: 2,668
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

4 safety rules.
__________________
Waterborne!

Front Sight President / Heritage Member
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-16-2018, 7:41 AM
200Apples's Avatar
200Apples 200Apples is offline
- DVC -
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: the southern California sardine can
Posts: 1,751
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Train yourself so the gun comes up with the sights already aligned when you draw.

+1

Now do this from laying in your bed. From laying on either side of your body, and with a strong side presentation and then a weak side presentation. It's a lot different than when standing vertical.

And let's say there happens to be sufficient ambient light (but still dark enough where night sights are a distinct advantage) to determine your target hostile... three dot night sights might be faster to align if the front sight were a different color than the rear sight dots, when having to present your weapon from a weak side "draw", for example. Might be pretty easy to have the front sight all the way over instead of centered when your sights are all three the same color.

/ponderin'
__________________
.
"....there never yet was any truth or any principle so irresistibly obvious that all men believed it at once. Time and reason must cooperate with each other to the final establishment of any principle; and therefore those who may happen to be first convinced have not a right to persecute others, on whom conviction operates more slowly. The moral principle of revolutions is to instruct, not to destroy." - Thomas Paine

.TOMMY ROBINSON WALKS A FREE MAN! | 1A - 2A = -1A
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2018, 8:35 AM
russ69's Avatar
russ69 russ69 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,279
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

If you are going to put a sight on the target, make it the front sight.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2018, 8:50 AM
fiddletown's Avatar
fiddletown fiddletown is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanks View Post
Train yourself so the gun comes up with the sights already aligned when you draw.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
+1

Now do this from laying in your bed. From laying on either side of your body, and with a strong side presentation and then a weak side presentation. It's a lot different than when standing vertical....
Yes, again.

This is called developing your natural point of aim.

And that ties in with the flash sight picture as described by Greg Morrison (Morrison, Gregory, The Modern Technique of the Pistol, Gunsite Press, 1991, pp 87 - 88, emphasis added):
Quote:
...The flash sight-picture involves a glimpse of the sight-picture sufficient to confirm alignment....The target shooter’s gaze at the front sight has proven inappropriate for the bulk of pistol fighting. However, the practical shooter must start at this level and work up to the flash, which becomes reflexive as motor skills are refined. With practice, a consistent firing platform and firing stroke align the sights effortlessly. This index to the target eventually becomes an instantaneous confirmation of the sight-picture.

...Using the flash sight-picture programs the reflex of aligning the weapon’s sights with the target instantly....There is good reason for sights: one needs them to align the barrel with the target reliably....
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-16-2018, 8:55 AM
BennyAdeline's Avatar
BennyAdeline BennyAdeline is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 1,433
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

My night sight on my HD pistol is a Trijicon RMR. I’ve practiced enough that I index the weapon in line with my dominant eye and can see the dot every time. I never have to stop looking directly at the area my target is in. If I need to illuminate, I can activate my light with my support thumb.

Single plane focus and threat focus are really cool!
__________________
“You cannot save the planet. You may be able to save yourself and your family.”

-Clint Smith
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-16-2018, 8:59 AM
cockedandglocked's Avatar
cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
I'm with stupid ☝️
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 14,737
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SarcoBlaster View Post
How are you identifying your target if it's pitch black and all you can see are the tritium vials on your sights?

I'd suggest investing in a quality handheld or weapon-mounted light. Once you turn the light on to ID your target, your sights will be silhouetted and it won't matter if they're plain, tritium, fiber optic, etc.
If it's pitch black, then yes I absolutely agree.

But in "low-light" (like a room with a nightlight in it) you could see pretty easily if your eyes are adjusted to the darkness, such as when you wake up in the middle of the night.

Like how you can easily navigate your kitchen to get a glass of water at 3am using only the glow from the microwave's clock. Pretty easy to make out a face under those conditions, but it's still hard to see the sights.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-16-2018, 9:00 AM
cockedandglocked's Avatar
cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
I'm with stupid ☝️
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Near Excremento
Posts: 14,737
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyAdeline View Post
My night sight on my HD pistol is a Trijicon RMR. I’ve practiced enough that I index the weapon in line with my dominant eye and can see the dot every time. I never have to stop looking directly at the area my target is in. If I need to illuminate, I can activate my light with my support thumb.

Single plane focus and threat focus are really cool!
That is my "night sight" on my shotgun, and I love it! But sadly my handguns don't have it.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-16-2018, 9:02 AM
redcliff's Avatar
redcliff redcliff is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shasta County
Posts: 5,310
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by russ69 View Post
If you are going to put a sight on the target, make it the front sight.
QFT

This is why I prefer just a front sight dot (I like hybrid tritium/flourescent ones) on my carry pistols. Weapon lights are great if you can handle their size (some new ones are admirably small) and get them turned on in time. It would be interesting to know if police officers, when faced with needing to draw their weapon to return fire, actually find themselves manipulating the light switch or if they just return fire at the muzzle flashes and turn the light on later.
__________________
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
"What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us"
"An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911"

"While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also,
although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-16-2018, 9:19 AM
HighWildFree's Avatar
HighWildFree HighWildFree is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,720
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Much like skeet shooting I don't aim using sights.
__________________
"Bangarang Peter!"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-16-2018, 9:25 AM
SAD338 SAD338 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 290
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
QFT

This is why I prefer just a front sight dot (I like hybrid tritium/flourescent ones) on my carry pistols. Weapon lights are great if you can handle their size (some new ones are admirably small) and get them turned on in time. It would be interesting to know if police officers, when faced with needing to draw their weapon to return fire, actually find themselves manipulating the light switch or if they just return fire at the muzzle flashes and turn the light on later.
What agency would train their officers to fire without identifying the threat first?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-16-2018, 10:59 AM
BennyAdeline's Avatar
BennyAdeline BennyAdeline is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 1,433
iTrader: 39 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
That is my "night sight" on my shotgun, and I love it! But sadly my handguns don't have it.
I’ve been considering a RMR on my HD shotgun, but always convince myself it wouldn’t be much faster than point shooting or a quick bead at “in the home” distances.

But I respect your opinion, so maybe I’ll do it!
__________________
“You cannot save the planet. You may be able to save yourself and your family.”

-Clint Smith
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-16-2018, 1:46 PM
redcliff's Avatar
redcliff redcliff is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shasta County
Posts: 5,310
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAD338 View Post
What agency would train their officers to fire without identifying the threat first?
What agency trains their officers to not consider an adversary firing upon them as a threat and requires them to illuminate them with a light first when there may be sufficient ambient light to see the target? My question is whether they would purely react and rely upon their tritium front sight or would they first illuminate the target as the "must have a weapon light" crowd seems to insist upon. Armed conflict with firearms existed long before there were flashlights.
__________________
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
"What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us"
"An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911"

"While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also,
although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark"
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:39 PM
HopetonBrown's Avatar
HopetonBrown HopetonBrown is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,612
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post

But in "low-light" (like a room with a nightlight in it) you could see pretty easily if your eyes are adjusted to the darkness, such as when you wake up in the middle of the night.

Like how you can easily navigate your kitchen to get a glass of water at 3am using only the glow from the microwave's clock. Pretty easy to make out a face under those conditions, but it's still hard to see the sights.
Is it a good idea to make target IDs at 3am when you are half asleep using the light from your microwave clock?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...271330421.html
__________________
"there is no appreciable difference in the effectiveness of the 9mm and the .45 ACP cartridges" -Dr. Vincent JM DiMaio, Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques

Don't consider this an endorsement, but you can buy Front Sight Diamond memberships off eBay for $39.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:59 PM
tonyxcom's Avatar
tonyxcom tonyxcom is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 5,453
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

If there is enough light to identify a target then the person you are about to shoot then their should provide enough contrast for you to see the outline of your sights.

But you really should have a weapon light if you are going to make shots in the dark at a distance that requires aiming.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-17-2018, 1:41 PM
Hairball's Avatar
Hairball Hairball is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,022
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Turn on the lights...
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-17-2018, 9:02 PM
Kmai24 Kmai24 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,136
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SarcoBlaster View Post
How are you identifying your target if it's pitch black and all you can see are the tritium vials on your sights?

I'd suggest investing in a quality handheld or weapon-mounted light. Once you turn the light on to ID your target, your sights will be silhouetted and it won't matter if they're plain, tritium, fiber optic, etc.
Well said..night sights are over hyped in my honest opinion.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:40 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.