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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

View Poll Results: What do you think the chances are of a visit by CA DoJ?
0 to 25% 292 82.72%
26 to 50% 20 5.67%
51% to 75% 12 3.40%
76 to 100% 29 8.22%
Voters: 353. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 07-01-2018, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 1bulletBarney View Post
Now that the registration window is closed, what is stopping DOJ field agents from visiting shooting ranges and walking the lines looking at rifles that are uncased sitting on a shooting bench or in a rack? A featured rifle will be easy to spot...

Then the "compliance inspection" starts. This scenario is far more likely to occur IMO. The DOJ and media's silence on the registration compliance process will turn into headlines about arrest and illegal assault weapons being seized at public shooting ranges...
Logistics mostly. There simply are not enough agents or money to do that. I would speculate that in those instances where people have been visited, unless some actual crime was involved, they were APPS agents who got handed something from higher ups to do "in their spare time", or "while you are in that neighborhood".
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  #42  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:56 AM
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What is the consequence going to be if your BBRAW is reqistered as 5.56 caliber (because that's what the manufacturer stamped on the lower) and you get "caught" with it having a different caliber upper on it ? Was that scenario covered in the reg's?
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  #43  
Old 07-01-2018, 12:53 PM
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They dont pay the agents enough to do spot inspections at random ranges. Imagine being in their shoes.
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  #44  
Old 07-01-2018, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
They can visit all they want but without a warrant I won't answer the door.
Very good advice if you own firearms in California.

Never answer the door. Unfortunately the others in your household will, as we have seen to the detriment of gun owners in this state. Once the Man is let in or even acknowledged, your toast. Gun owners are the enemy, never forget that.
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  #45  
Old 07-01-2018, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by alpha_romeo_XV View Post
What is the consequence going to be if your BBRAW is reqistered as 5.56 caliber (because that's what the manufacturer stamped on the lower) and you get "caught" with it having a different caliber upper on it ? Was that scenario covered in the reg's?
I believe since it is the lower that is registered (it has 5.56 stamped on it) whatever upper you have doesn't matter.
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  #46  
Old 07-01-2018, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BagelBites View Post
I'd say the chances are very high if you've just submitted photos of an "illegal" firearm. Other than that, no.
I disagree.
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  #47  
Old 07-01-2018, 10:00 PM
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Given the crap ***** requirements and stipulations and needing to give up at least 4 of your constitutional rights just to keep your bullet button, it boggles the mind why anyone would have registered something AGAIN that they legally bought already.. not to mention the fact that a spouse had to be listed otherwise there is a felony in waiting?!?
Wtfh is wrong with people..

So now anyone who tried and got kicked back is on the list and radar and if it did not get corrected before today,you are all felons they know what you have and where... would have been better if NO ONE registered ..... EVERY ONE go featureless or fixed.....
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  #48  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 1bulletBarney View Post
Now that the registration window is closed, what is stopping DOJ field agents from visiting shooting ranges and walking the lines looking at rifles that are uncased sitting on a shooting bench or in a rack? A featured rifle will be easy to spot...

...
You do realize this will be fuster cluck since there are:
1) pre-2000 registered AWs
2) registered BBAWs
3) fully featured rimfire (that look just like AWs)
4) fully featured SACF that break open to release magazines (ARMglock, etc.)
5) fully featured SACF with fixed magazines and standard magazine releases (DFM etc.)

and then there is the plethora of featureless SACF that still in everyway but one (fin grip) resemble a fully featured SACF (can you distinguish a pinned stock and the difference between a flash hider and a brake?).

They have made illegal AW identification twice as difficult than it was before. No one is going to be inspecting anything at ranges, and the busy bodies are going to be educated very fast.

I had my Tavor SAR (registered BBAW 26" OAL) out just last thursday and there were just three of us at the range. The RSO and the other shooter came over and asked "how is it not an SBR?" They were more curious the accusatory.
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  #49  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mshill View Post
You do realize this will be fuster cluck since there are:
1) pre-2000 registered AWs
2) registered BBAWs
3) fully featured rimfire (that look just like AWs)
4) fully featured SACF that break open to release magazines (ARMglock, etc.)
5) fully featured SACF with fixed magazines and standard magazine releases (DFM etc.)
If it gets so complicated for LEO do you see agencies and cities just taking everything back to the station? I mean, at this point, a department might just make the decision on training costs alone.
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  #50  
Old 07-01-2018, 11:59 PM
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I was hearing from old timers on the CG Facebook group that the first few months of 1990 and 2001 DOJ was out in full force at the ranges checking papers, etc.

What could easily happen this time around, is similar to what happened in 2006-07 when BBs hit the market. Unlucky individuals with compliance kits get their rifles confiscated for examination. Especially those kits that crack the action just a couple millimeters. Like the early BB days, those individuals will likely relinquish ownership of the weapon(s) in exchange for no charges being filed.

People who registered properly won't get a house visit. But could still be shaken down at ranges for paperwork, compliance kit examinations, etc.

Guess it's time to go off the grid for a while?
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  #51  
Old 07-02-2018, 12:10 AM
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I'm not voting for this poll. The stupid law in Kali, as long as u follow it, u r GTG, should be no knock knock.
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  #52  
Old 07-02-2018, 6:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshill View Post
You do realize this will be fuster cluck since there are:
1) pre-2000 registered AWs
2) registered BBAWs
3) fully featured rimfire (that look just like AWs)
4) fully featured SACF that break open to release magazines (ARMglock, etc.)
5) fully featured SACF with fixed magazines and standard magazine releases (DFM etc.)

and then there is the plethora of featureless SACF that still in everyway but one (fin grip) resemble a fully featured SACF (can you distinguish a pinned stock and the difference between a flash hider and a brake?).

They have made illegal AW identification twice as difficult than it was before. No one is going to be inspecting anything at ranges, and the busy bodies are going to be educated very fast.

I had my Tavor SAR (registered BBAW 26" OAL) out just last thursday and there were just three of us at the range. The RSO and the other shooter came over and asked "how is it not an SBR?" They were more curious the accusatory.
Thanks for assuming that I don't know my pinned stock from my thread protector or assuming I don't know about all the myriad of compliance devices that are in use...

All I did was speculate about what I think may be possible in regards potential DOJ enforcement of new BBAW law. We will know more in the next couple of months how things will shake down...
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  #53  
Old 07-02-2018, 7:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troyPhD View Post
I was hearing from old timers on the CG Facebook group that the first few months of 1990 and 2001 DOJ was out in full force at the ranges checking papers, etc.

What could easily happen this time around, is similar to what happened in 2006-07 when BBs hit the market. Unlucky individuals with compliance kits get their rifles confiscated for examination. Especially those kits that crack the action just a couple millimeters. Like the early BB days, those individuals will likely relinquish ownership of the weapon(s) in exchange for no charges being filed.

People who registered properly won't get a house visit. But could still be shaken down at ranges for paperwork, compliance kit examinations, etc.

Guess it's time to go off the grid for a while?
I can't speak to what happened in 2001 as I was gone by then, but as for 1990, that is hogwash. At that time the firearms section of CA DOJ was just a papermill. I don't believe they even had their own LE at that time. If they did it was only 2 or 3 people.
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  #54  
Old 07-02-2018, 9:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
I can't speak to what happened in 2001 as I was gone by then, but as for 1990, that is hogwash. At that time the firearms section of CA DOJ was just a papermill. I don't believe they even had their own LE at that time. If they did it was only 2 or 3 people.
Well I was here in 2001 and I never saw that.

I have seen, at Lytle Creek, USFS and Sheriff inspecting once or twice; and yes I did see somebody have an unregistered AW confiscated a couple years ago.

But DOJ? Never.
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  #55  
Old 07-02-2018, 9:50 AM
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Bacon should always be a crime
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  #56  
Old 07-02-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by FresnoRob View Post
0-25% I think about 1 in 1000 will get a visit at some point.
That is my estimate, too.

If you count up all the reported instances of people being visited, including all the completely unverifiable 3rd-hand accounts (ie, overheard a guy in a gun store telling someone about his friend's neighbor getting a visit), there have only been a total of about 8 visits. Of those, all but 2 of them were for reasons that could have been avoided, and those other 2 visits ended with the agents saying "thanks" and leaving empty-handed. And there have been no reports at all in the last 6-8 weeks - and I doubt that's because DOJ hasn't caught any mistakes on people's apps since then.
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  #57  
Old 07-02-2018, 11:01 AM
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I registered several AWs back in 1999/2000.

18 years later... still no visit.
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  #58  
Old 07-02-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper3142 View Post
I registered several AWs back in 1999/2000.

18 years later... still no visit.
"Times have changed", people will say... not remembering that "times" were really not much better back in 2000
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  #59  
Old 07-02-2018, 12:40 PM
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At a LGS the other day, I overheard employees stating as fact that registration allows DOJ to come into your house whenever they want. IN fact, according to the guy, that's written into the law. Man, that's one myth that's gonna live forever.
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  #60  
Old 07-02-2018, 4:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten View Post
At a LGS the other day, I overheard employees stating as fact that registration allows DOJ to come into your house whenever they want. IN fact, according to the guy, that's written into the law. Man, that's one myth that's gonna live forever.
Some of the info I have heard at LGS and at the range from people was much worse than that. I mean, if you make a living selling guns you'd think they'd at least read some of our threads and be on the same page. I just don't get it.

I met a cop at my FFL some months back and he was telling people it was ok to remove BB, and that he personally had already done so.
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  #61  
Old 07-02-2018, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten View Post
At a LGS the other day, I overheard employees stating as fact that registration allows DOJ to come into your house whenever they want. IN fact, according to the guy, that's written into the law. Man, that's one myth that's gonna live forever.
That employee is a typical Californian suffering from the Stockholm Syndrome and probably votes like the majority too. Pathetic.
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  #62  
Old 07-02-2018, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledReaper View Post
Given the crap ***** requirements and stipulations and needing to give up at least 4 of your constitutional rights just to keep your bullet button, it boggles the mind why anyone would have registered something AGAIN that they legally bought already.. not to mention the fact that a spouse had to be listed otherwise there is a felony in waiting?!?
Wtfh is wrong with people..
Oh jeez..... this again!?!? There are hundreds of pros and cons to support both arguments. Obviously you didnít register for whatever reasons u think. Thatís great, why would you care what others do? Nobody knows what will happen in the future. There could be mass searches and confiscation, youíd end up being correct and laughing at those stupid people. But what if the registration continues to fixed, featureless and more? You may,most likely not, but you may think it would have been a smart idea to register at least one back when you had the chance in 2018. As many...many have said on these boards, maybe do both? That is likely safer than going all or nothing on whichever side you choose.

-Chevy vs. Ford
-Glock vs Sig
-catholic vs Christian
-registration or featureless

The arguments continue......
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  #63  
Old 07-02-2018, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OlderThanDirt View Post
The DOJ would never do anything silly.

The average person is pretty good at incriminating themselves. Sending out trolling letters would be cheap and would probably catch a few of the dumber fish out there. Alternatively, they could just sit back and wait for the Legislature to do some cleanup legislation for featureless and some of the "fixed" magazine options. Either way, this is far from over...
we're not even close yet.

I do see a semi auto ban coming next session with much fanfare from Newsom when he signs it on prime time news for maximum impact and feel goodness.
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  #64  
Old 07-02-2018, 6:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten View Post
At a LGS the other day, I overheard employees stating as fact that registration allows DOJ to come into your house whenever they want. IN fact, according to the guy, that's written into the law. Man, that's one myth that's gonna live forever.
Heard that back in 2000 as well.

We mounted a hell of a fight from behind our compudyne 486 pcs
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  #65  
Old 07-02-2018, 7:20 PM
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Oh jeez..... this again!?!?

-Chevy vs. Ford
-Glock vs Sig
-catholic vs Christian
-registration or featureless

The arguments continue......
Of all the arguments to mention you leave out

- .45 vs. 9mm

The only other argument is

- crispy or soft bacon
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  #66  
Old 07-02-2018, 7:41 PM
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The only other argument is

- crispy or soft bacon
I didnít leave that out. There is no argument.....crispy of coarse. Donít be ridiculous.


Soft bacon. Psht...
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  #67  
Old 07-02-2018, 7:54 PM
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I did register on the last day! But, the web-site never asked (or I did something wrong) for payment! Is this something they ask for later?
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  #68  
Old 07-02-2018, 8:18 PM
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I did register on the last day! But, the web-site never asked (or I did something wrong) for payment! Is this something they ask for later?
You probably added them to the "shopping cart", but then never "checked out" when you were finished adding the last one.

Hate to say it but you'll just have to get in line behind lots of other people who *almost* made it to the finish line, but didn't. DOJ has taken the "too bad, so sad" position about it, so your best bet is hopefully some class action lawsuit lets you get registered in a few years. I wouldn't hold my breath though, I'd start looking into other options and just try to forget this bad memory.
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Old 07-02-2018, 8:24 PM
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^^^^Featureless... If you had to choose, would you go with a magazine lock or the shark fin on the pistol grip? Or, some other option like separation of the receivers?
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Old 07-02-2018, 8:37 PM
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I did register on the last day! But, the web-site never asked (or I did something wrong) for payment! Is this something they ask for later?
Uh.....yeah. You officially did not complete the process. Sorry dude. As cockedandglocked said above, you likely have items in your cart waiting for you to complete the transaction prior to the 30th of Juuuuu...never mind. Your screwed.
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  #71  
Old 07-02-2018, 8:42 PM
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I did register on the last day! But, the web-site never asked (or I did something wrong) for payment! Is this something they ask for later?
Do you amazon?
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  #72  
Old 07-02-2018, 8:45 PM
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I live in a small town and worked part time in a friends gun shop.

Granted Im on my way out of the state soon and all my weapons sans two handguns and a pump shotgun are out of state but Ive dros'd over 100 BB style weapons in the last 5 years in my name.
Many were shipped in from my home in Texas, some were purchased new, some used and then theres the some odd 20 AR lowers.

I expect DOJ anytime and I welcome them with open arms and a hot cup of coffee.
My gun safe is empty as can be.
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  #73  
Old 07-02-2018, 9:12 PM
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The CADOJ can come a knocking anytime, cause I've got nothing but parts, and nothing to hide.
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  #74  
Old 07-02-2018, 9:16 PM
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The CADOJ can come a knocking anytime, cause I've got nothing but parts, and nothing to hide.
Same here. I'll show them my sweet collection of pistols and shotguns, and wish them a safe drive on the way to their next house
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  #75  
Old 07-02-2018, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Discogodfather View Post
I'd say less than 20% of owners of these weapons did something specifically like reg or featureless or whatever because they had no idea what was going on. In 1989, DOJ took our TV ads and published fliers. Since then they have acted like people should be clairvoyant as to their whims of interpretation of the law.

If LGS or local range is any indication very few people know. People that worked at local gun shops (making a living selling guns) didn't know their hat from the *** and gave out information that should make them liable for illegality that resulted. I heard salespeople say things that were not only useless, but incredibly wrong and harmful.

Our legal friends put out some webinars and tried to get the word out but it's very very limited in it's scope. Even supposed you tube friendly CA channels (including some based in CA) didn't really have the best info and it was not optimal to say the least.

This is what is meant by U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez when he said "criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law". I think most people in CA fell into that category. The amount of time I have personally spent trying to navigate this garbage is staggering, and I am no expert to say the least.

All of this is going according to the people who are behind this law's ultimate plan. It's going perfectly for them.
That's why people wonder who wrote this crap a 2 year old? It's that bad on purpose.

It will get worse real soon.
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  #76  
Old 07-02-2018, 9:25 PM
Deedle Deedle is online now
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Originally Posted by SoldierLife7 View Post
I think the majority of people are law abiding citizens that have chosen to do the right thing.
.... and take their tax revenue to another state, like AZ or NM?
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  #77  
Old 07-03-2018, 5:52 PM
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Guns and guitars Guns and guitars is offline
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.... and take their tax revenue to another state, like AZ or NM?
Idaho. Montana and Nevada are where all my friends have left for.
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  #78  
Old 07-03-2018, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by paddyraid View Post
well since many didn't heed the advice of many others and went ahead and complied with that thing called registration, probably very high.
DOJ estimates 8-10% registered their "AW's" in the registration that ended in January, 2001. As I've posted more than once, given the number of that did not register, I've seen very few arrests, let alone convictions. I would expect the same for the reg period that ended on June 30 this year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierLife7 View Post
I was thinking more like "spot" checks here and there, not massive campaigns. No warrants, just knocking on doors and asking if they can come in and check things out...hoping to catch someone that is gullible.
I was thinking you cannot cure gullible, so no matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierLife7 View Post
I think the majority of people are law abiding citizens that have chosen to do the right thing.

Sadly, there will be many that have no idea that the laws changed. They will be the ones ďcaughtĒ with unregistered BB AWs.
What the "right thing" means is definitely debatable...I'd say I'm law abiding...no arrests, last traffic stop 2-3 years for an expired tag with no ticket. More than several active clearances above TS that are reviewed every 6 months or so. I chose to ignore the drop-dead date, let alone the requirement to register, as the only "right thing".

Go back to the reg period ending in early 2001. Calguns.net was tiny at the time, if it even existed. Folks in general were not nearly as computer-equipped as they are now. To me, the issue is the number of California gun owners who think rolling over is the "right thing".
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  #79  
Old 07-03-2018, 7:31 PM
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You know itís more likely to catch someone who didnít register but is still in the database from a 2014+ purchase. Those people should watch their back
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Old 07-03-2018, 7:51 PM
aBrowningfan aBrowningfan is online now
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
You know itís more likely to catch someone who didnít register but is still in the database from a 2014+ purchase. Those people should watch their back
So true. If CA DoJ wants, they have a ready-made punch list for visits. I wouldn't put it past Xavier to send agents out to round up the un-registered AWs. For him, it is the perfect publicity opportunity.
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