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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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Playing devil's advocate on the 10-day wait...
We may want to slow down and think about how the libtards will react if the 10-day waiting period is struck down. Right now it is of some value in helping mental health professionals arrange private arrangements with their clients to convince them to temporarily give up their guns without getting bureaucrats involved.
The 10-day wait can be used as a much less restrictive arrangement that a professional has a better chance of getting a client to agree to that and, it also has a benefit that it doesn't risk any stigma from a paper trail that can come back to bite them. If we aren't careful, we risk making an opening for even less desirable laws to take the place of the 10-day waiting period. http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/news/2...to-new-gun-law ...Fredrick Vars, a professor at the University of Alabama School of Law, said about 46 percent of the 200 people involved in the survey said they would be interested in voluntarily participating in the program. Vars presented the patients with two options: A voluntary sign-up and removal from the list with a seven-day waiting period, and an option that requires a judicial hearing for removal. The option without a judicial hearing won the most support...
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -Sigmund Freud |
#2
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Ummm... 10 day wait period would be struck down for folks that already have firearms, etc. Not for first-timers.
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All posts dedicated to the memory of Stronzo Bestiale "You want my sister but now scam my Glocks too? How about my sister? what can she do now? Still virgin and need Glcok." ---ARegularGuy NRA Patron Member |
#3
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Since I am no longer a California resident, I may not be allowed an opinion, but when I did liver there I felt like it w2as ridicules to make a person sit through a "Cooling off period" if they already have guns at home. I mean seriously. When has there ever been a person who got mad and wanted to kill someone, but said to themselves "I don't want to use one of these guns. I want a new one to kill this MF"?
There could be some merit to a wait for your first gun, but after that, I see no benefit.
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WARNING: This post will most likely contain statements that are offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense, and or maturity. Satire: A literary composition, in verse or prose, in which human folly and vice are held up to scorn, derision, or ridicule. _____________________________________________ |
#4
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The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is the U.S. system for determining if prospective firearms or explosives buyers' name and birth year match those of a person who is not eligible to buy.
It is instant, full faith and credit logically tells you that any waiting period is a local scheme to deter firearms sales. Just one of the many in this state.
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Real G?s move in silence like lasagna |
#5
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Bought my first handgun, 9mm, waited 10 days.
10 day wait for my second, a single action 22. What good did that do? Think of all the children that are being exposed to the extra air pollution by my having to drive a second time to pick up. Several of my buys were 100 miles away, so 200 extra miles.
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Originally posted by Kestryll: It never fails to amuse me how people get outraged but fail to tell the whole story in their rants.... |
#6
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The 10 day "cooling off" period is just to discourage law abiding gun owners or prospective law abiding gun owners from buying. It's just psychological warfare. If the state of California can stop just a few weak minded people from getting a gun, then they have won.
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#7
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#8
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If you have a CCW, you should be able to walk out with your gun purchase following a NICS check.
You've already undertaken a relatively in-depth background check and the libs contention that the 10 day wait is a "cooling off period" becomes null because by default, a CCW holder already owns a gun.
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#12
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Do you have a card you can take to a gun vendor to show them your clearance? And just having a security clearance doesn't necessarily mean you own a gun. I know several folks with TS clearances who work in defense that don't own any guns... even here in Texas.
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#13
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^^This totally negates OP's point.
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#14
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How exactly do you see it helping Mental Health Workers?? Mental Health Workers have no way of knowing if a client has attempted to purchase a handgun so I don't see how having a 10 day wait helps them one bit. What exactly do you see them getting their client to agree to? Please explain.
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Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run |
#16
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What "paper trail" comes back to bite them, that they tried to buy a gun and were denied? Who learns of that happening to a person? BTW, the 10 day wait isn't replaced with "do nothing" - it's replaced with "do something quick" and not to hold onto the gun beyond what is required to complete a check. You're "devil's advocating" for making a person wait, after the check is done, for no reason. |
#17
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There is no "devil's advocate" to be played. The 10 day wait has been proven to be a complete farce and has zero impact on "reducing crime".
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It was not a threat. It was an exaggerated response to an uncompromising stance. I was taught never to make a threat unless you are prepared to carry it out and I am not a fan of carrying anything. Even watching other people carrying things makes me uncomfortable. Mainly because of the possibility they may ask me to help. |
#18
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I do not support waiting periods for firearm purchases, especially for those who already own one or more firearms. However, there is some evidence that firearm purchase waiting periods reduce suicide rates, both firearm related and overall suicide rates. There is no evidence it reduces homicide rates.
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Revolvers are not pistols Quote:
ExitCalifornia.org |
#19
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It's all about control . . . has nothing to do with reason or safety.
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#20
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Even if I did, I don't know of any laws on the books (Fed or State) that would exempt any waiting period for a clearance. My point was that a background check for a CCW is nothing compared to what transpires for a security clearance. Therefore, in my opinion: Clearance>CCW> = no waiting.
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#22
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A NICS background check can be done in minutes. If you already own a gun, what's the point of a "cooling off" period for a subsequent gun purchase? What's next? A "cooling off" period for ammo purchases?
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Anchors Aweigh |
#23
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48hrs was the shortest delay they studied, and the observation that many suicides are decided within hours, rather than days, would indicate the delay could be reduced to 1 day or even less to interrupt suicidal impulses: Quote:
because they couldn't adequately defend themselves during the various waiting periods. Waiting 5 to 10 days can seem like an eternity when you perceive a violent threat to yourself or family. Also, this is a concern, listed in their references: Shooting Down the More Guns, Less Crime Hypothesis Full-text · Article · Dec 2002 Ian Ayres, John J. Donohue III I agree with others that people like Donohue are biased Anti Gun "researchers" If I remember correctly, I think it was David Kopel who did an excellent job eviscerating Donohue's challenge to his court submission, but I just cannot recall the case atm. And for the record, I do not agree with waiting periods, either. Noble |
#24
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Elliott Rodger underwent 3 background checks and waited 10 days for each of his firearms.
The argument that a wait of any duration will prevent a gun crime is without basis, irrespective of whether or not one is already a gun owner. Next?
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Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Sometimes the law places the whole apparatus of judges, police, prisons and gendarmes at the service of the plunderers, and treats the victim -- when he defends himself -- as a criminal. Bastiat “Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen.” Friedrich Nietzsche |
#25
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You can argue the California 10 day wait ad nauseam. The bottom line is this:
1) Stupid people elect ignorant politicians. 2) Ignorant politicians create senseless, illogical laws.
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#26
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http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A contact the governor https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend. NRA Life Member. |
#27
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Last edited by R Dale; 10-24-2016 at 9:55 PM.. |
#28
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How About
We get some LibTurd Commyfornia Anti2A legislators to pass a law the requires all criminals to submit to a voluntary 10 day "cooling off" period. Before they steal a law abiding citizens gun?
Sounds like another perfectly "REASONABLE COMMON SENSE COMPROMISE" to me. |
#29
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I'm still waiting to learn what safety goal, whether public or private for that matter, is realized or even merely advanced by requiring a person who already possesses guns to wait to get another. The "we're OK with checks" support offered by some gunowners seems to be a by rote reaction, something we're supposed to say to appear reasonable.
With respect to suicide, a waiting period of any duration supposes that person will not, at a later time, reaffirm a decision to commit suicide. A proclivity toward suicide is a reason to not possess a gun, not to possess it after a certain wait. |
#30
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If the professional knows it would be hard for a client to run out and get another one in a hurry, it makes room for them both to consider other, less drastic measures to work out a treatment plan. It's a way to help someone keep control of their treatment to some degree, witch in turn helps motivate someone to follow through on their end of the deal. It's a way to make time for someone in crisis to stop and think without a psychiatrist or therapist having to get the police or DoJ involved. It can't be done every time someone is in a bad place, but it would help many. It also helps leave an argument in court ready against any future mental health related gun laws meant to systematically disarm people. If there are already measures in the law in place (ie, the 10 day wait) to fill the intent of any new laws, but in a less restrictive manner than anything new that Sacramento will come up with, it will be easier to have any new laws overturned. The less the government knows about a citizen's guns, the better. Mental health records or records of having guns confiscated sometime in the past over mental health issues in the past may not be a big deal at the moment, but we need to consider how those records could come back to haunt gun owners in the future. Even having any kind of registry is a liability to us all. Remember, gun control activists are never satisfied. Eventually all the laws need to go, and for now it would probably be better to give priority to legal battles over the roster, standard cap mags, loaded carry, ammo permits, and the like, and then come back to the 10 day wait later.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -Sigmund Freud |
#31
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Or, I voluntarily give up my guns and go buy a black power pistol. They do not require a 10-day wait or background check. I go home and use it to shoot myself in the head. They make more of a mess than modern firearms and are over 99% lethal, more lethal than all other guns combined used for suicides. My mom worked as an ER nurse and saw a few of these. My FIL was a firefighter/paramedic and saw a few of these. A mental health worker does as you suggest and does not make the report. Their patient then goes and buys a black market gun and uses it to commit suicide. The family finds out and then sues the mental health worker because the law requires he files a report if he has any reason to suspect the patient is suicidal. He could even lose his license to practice. The mental health professional is a mandated reporter and if he or she wants to keep their license, they will report.
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Anyone can look around and see the damage to the state and country inflicted by bad politicians. A vote is clearly much more dangerous than a gun. Why advocate restrictions on one right (voting) without comparable restrictions on another (self defense) (or, why not say 'Be a U.S. citizen' as the requirement for CCW)? --Librarian |
#32
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"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler |
#33
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A gun is efficient, quick and private. Launching one's self off the Golden Gate Bridge - you have to get dressed, travel there, might be a nice day out, perhaps a friend is seen on the way. The deed must be done in front of passers by. One of the reasons for not putting up a barricade on the bridge, believe it or not, was the supposition that those inclined to jump but didn't carry through would find easier ways to carry out the act - an apartment building for example. Regarding swapping out a blackpowder pistol for a conventional one - heck, try finding blackpowder around here. You'll die of old age first. Unfortunately preventing a suicide is like preventing private, momentary behavior accomplished in the blink of an eye. Everything has to line up perfectly and the person doing the deed must cooperate - forever. |
#34
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OP's choice of argument is narrow and ignorant. What of all the law-abiding people that already lawfully own firearms? WHy should they be subjected to this nonsense waiting period? States with cash and carry or Instant Check are not suffering any increase in 'crimes of passion', the prima facie argument for the 10 day period. It is nothing more than a deliberate encumberance by the State.
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#35
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What's with all of the anti's coming out of the woodwork recently. I mean, they've clearly WON and more or less destroyed the 2nd AMENDMENT, so shouldn't they be out in the streets dancing and celebrating and all that? Why are they wasting time heckling us in our own forums? Don't they have anything better to do?
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I don't always save the world, but when I do, it's in 24 hours or less... |
#36
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I See.
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Only slaves don't need guns We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls. What doesn't kill me, better run |
#37
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Anchors Aweigh |
#38
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We have almost the exact suicide rate for men as in France and France has much stricter gun laws than us. Compare New Zealand (more lax gun laws) to Australia (strict gun laws) and NZ's rate of suicide is lower. Our suicide rates are lower than Belgium and Iceland and significantly lower than Japan, Poland (very low gun ownership) Russia and South Korea. If people are committed to putting an end to themselves they will find a way even if they have no access to a firearm. |
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