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Old 09-16-2020, 11:19 AM
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Default Safe handing demo with dummies

As a buyer I always did the safe handling demo without dummies. We got called out for doing this and were told that we need to buy dummies for every popular caliber so that we can load the magazine and put one in the chamber (or 3 in the cylinder) before we turn it over to the buyer to safely unload it.

And if they miss or screw up on any step, I have to reload and they get to try again.
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Last edited by ronlglock; 09-16-2020 at 1:41 PM..
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:44 AM
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The sales clerk flunked to only safe handling demo I've ever done. It was an old model Ruger. I loaded one skipped one and loaded 4. He insisted I did it wrong and would have to start over. His boss straightened him out.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
The sales clerk flunked to only safe handling demo I've ever done. It was an old model Ruger. I loaded one skipped one and loaded 4. He insisted I did it wrong and would have to start over. His boss straightened him out.
LOL - empty under the hammer. Like manual trannies a lost art.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:41 PM
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You should have put your burry’in money in the empty. Maybe that’s why?
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Old 09-16-2020, 5:08 PM
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I've purchased two handguns in the past where the FFL did not have the appropriate dummy round for the safe handling demo.

The first time, the salesperson had me 'imagine' a round and talk through the process.

The other time, the salesperson had me demonstrate safe handling with a similar platform.

I tried looking it up to see if these were acceptable alternatives, however, based on CA P.C. they are not.

---

§26850 Describes the overall process.

Detailed instructions are covered under:

Quote:
If the handgun is a semiautomatic pistol, the steps listed in Section 26853.
If the handgun is a double-action revolver, the steps listed in Section 26856.
If the handgun is a single-action revolver, the steps listed in Section 26859.
They all basically say:

Quote:
Load one bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable dummy round ... If no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
Additionally, it says the demo starts with the firearm unloaded and locked.
Quote:
The safe handling demonstration shall commence with the handgun unloaded and locked with the firearm safety device with which it is required to be delivered, if applicable...
Unfortunately, what I found doesn't cover what to do if they mess up.

Source: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...=2.&article=2.

---

This is likely one of those things where the rules change depending on which auditor you get - unless it was a customer that was complaining?

This mess aside, hope this was helpful!

Have a great rest of your day!

Last edited by SuperBanther; 09-16-2020 at 5:28 PM..
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Old 09-17-2020, 6:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
As a buyer I always did the safe handling demo without dummies. We got called out for doing this and were told that we need to buy dummies for every popular caliber so that we can load the magazine and put one in the chamber (or 3 in the cylinder) before we turn it over to the buyer to safely unload it.
Interesting, when I took the class I was instructed to start out with an empty and locked gun, load the firearm, make it safe, unload it and relock it. Then hand it over to the buyer to do the same. Are you saying your DOJ rep wants you to load it and then hand over to the buyer?

This process one of my pet peeves. It seems like a good idea on the surface but my 10 minutes with a new gun owner doing a safe handling demonstration is not going to ensure they can safely operate their firearm.

In a lot of cases its hard to administer. I do a lot of C&R business which typically means odd calibers. Where am I going to find a snap cap for a 38-56 or a 40-82? I have managed by bumming brass from some of my collector clients and on occasion have asked the buyer to bring a piece of brass. But brass without a bullet doesn't load well in a lot of repeaters.

What am I supposed to do with firearms that don't function or that don't come with a magazine? I have transferred a number of "gunsmith specials" that could not be cycled. "Pretending" is the only thing I could do in those cases, with or without brass.

If the client brings his own brass/dummy round, how does DOJ know whether or not you did the demonstration correctly?

How do you start with the gun locked if the buyer is using a gunsafe affidavit rather than a gunlock? In most cases I have a lock that will work for the demo, but cable locks don't work with all guns. Am I supposed to keep an inventory of every kind of gunlock?

EOR
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Old 09-17-2020, 6:59 AM
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Default Safe handing demo with dummies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo1895 View Post
Interesting, when I took the class I was instructed to start out with an empty and locked gun, load the firearm, make it safe, unload it and relock it. Then hand it over to the buyer to do the same. Are you saying your DOJ rep wants you to load it and then hand over to the buyer?



EOR


Hmmm... I may have missed the “hand it over locked” part because the first words were "dummies" so I concentrated on that since I needed to spend money for them.
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Last edited by ronlglock; 09-17-2020 at 7:29 AM..
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Old 09-17-2020, 9:12 AM
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The War Wagon The War Wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
Safe handing demo with dummies



For there shall be NO glad-handing with dummies!
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Old 09-23-2020, 8:05 PM
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We have always done with dummies and were told it was a must for safe handling demo


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Old 09-26-2020, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by XxWoodsHunterxX View Post
We have always done with dummies and were told it was a must for safe handling demo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Almost every repeat gun buyer has questioned us on the safe affidavit and safe handling with dummies — “never had to do this before...” so some other LGS may be cutting corners and may get a warning at audit time.
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Old 09-28-2020, 6:57 AM
Nardo1895 Nardo1895 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlglock View Post
Almost every repeat gun buyer has questioned us on the safe affidavit and safe handling with dummies — “never had to do this before...” so some other LGS may be cutting corners and may get a warning at audit time.
How will DOJ know unless they get a customer complaint?

I have a pretty large assortment of dummy rounds (mostly unprimed brass & bullets), but on occasion I have asked the customer to bring me a dummy round if its a caliber I don't have. So lacking a dummy round for a particular transaction in itself isn't proof you had to fake it. Now if you don't have any dummy rounds that could be a red flag...
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