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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #41  
Old 09-18-2020, 6:30 PM
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If you want to go strictly by statistics there's a very small chance you'll ever use a gun period. I agree that in a very large percentage of typical ccw events that a j frame or other gun with 5 to 8 rounds will probably be enough. But, in todays world, I don't think its unreasonable or silly to consider carrying a gun with full size capacity.
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  #42  
Old 09-18-2020, 9:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
Well, we live in rural California and have not encountered any of the scenarios you mention here. We don't go out much either (I work from home, wife is retired). I carry when I leave the house (unless I plan to have a beer with lunch, then I can't).

For home invasions (never have heard of one in our area but that doesn't mean it can't happen), I've got the G19 as first response weapon with many, many layers of backup equipment and strategies.

Dan
Herein lies your answer. Stop thinking ONLY about your situation. Maybe for you, and where you live, 8 rounds is enough. Thats fine. That should make you happy. Not everyone lives in the same situation that you do and many live in areas where violence has become a common occurrence. Take yourself from your comfortable safe nest and put yourself in the Middle of LA, or Oakland, or SF, or Portland during a riot (not out roaming the streets, just sitting in your living room) and consider if those 8 rounds would be all you would need or even want. Everyones needs are going to be based on their perception of the threat where they live or where they find themselves.
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  #43  
Old 09-18-2020, 9:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
I generally carry a 5-shot .38 Special revolver or an 8+1 Shield for EDC. I use the 8 round magazines only because it has a pinky rest where the 7 round magazines do not. I also have a G36 (6+1) on my license and don't have a problem with this capacity.

I see lots of interest in higher capacity carry guns such as the Sig 365. I'm not sure I understand why. I have a G19 with 15 round magazine on my license but almost never carry it. Too large and very heavy (high cap adds a lot of weight to the firearm).

This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?

In my experience, I read of only a few shots (if any) are fired. Mostly, just the presentation of the carry gun stops the threat (something like 10:1 to shots fired).

Opinions?

Dan
Put it this way. I dont measure the average capacity discharged from a kitchen fire extinguisher and only buy that capacity fire extinguisher.

The strong odds are, you or i will never need to even draw a CCW. Extending your logic, then, why carry at all?

Until it gets to the point of “this is too heavy, i will not wear this every day”, i want the maximum amount of advantage i can carry.

I carry a G19 with standard capacity magazine, and two extra mags close by but not on my person.

Nobody ever survived a gunfight and said, look at all this ammo i didnt use, i am now downsizing.
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  #44  
Old 09-19-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Herein lies your answer. Stop thinking ONLY about your situation. Maybe for you, and where you live, 8 rounds is enough. Thats fine. That should make you happy. Not everyone lives in the same situation that you do and many live in areas where violence has become a common occurrence. Take yourself from your comfortable safe nest and put yourself in the Middle of LA, or Oakland, or SF, or Portland during a riot (not out roaming the streets, just sitting in your living room) and consider if those 8 rounds would be all you would need or even want. Everyone's needs are going to be based on their perception of the threat where they live or where they find themselves.
That is one thing I definitely did not take into account. I was very much looking at this in a very narrow perspective. Thanks for opening my eyes to other's circumstances.

Certainly, if I was living in the war zone areas you describe, I would absolutely arm-up and have a completely different view of readiness.

I do have a plan "B" if all goes to heck. I do need to move some things around to be more capably reactive and that is a high priority on my to-do list.

I do feel lucky that we are out in the semi-boonies. Very quiet out here and there is about 100 yards between our house and the main road, very easy to see things that could be threatening to us.

As I mentioned earlier (or maybe in another thread) I have lived 50 of my 71 years in counties that did not issue CCW licenses to us mere mortals. To think that some have suggested that I not carry at all is strange to say the least. I do not carry on-person every day, doing so based on circumstances (or my subjective feeling of insecurity) but have loaded carry guns at arms reach at all times whether here at home or on the road.

Thanks to all who have responded. I have learned a lot from the wisdom on this board.

Dan
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  #45  
Old 09-19-2020, 3:42 PM
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Like was already said: “’tis better to have and not need, than to need and not have...”
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  #46  
Old 09-19-2020, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tomrkba View Post

Watch some Active Self Protection videos where there are two or more attackers.

The good guy usually rips through at least 10 rounds before attackers fall down and the survivors scatter.
A lot of good info in his videos of real shootouts...

https://www.youtube.com/c/ActiveSelf...tion/playlists
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  #47  
Old 09-19-2020, 5:15 PM
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You folks with 10 round mags are lucky. Buy a box of defense ammo, and it's 20 or 25 rounds, so that's 2 full mags no problem. I need to buy a second box to fill my spare mag.
Relax, I'm joking. The HST I buy comes in 50 round boxes, and I load 3 mags.
To paraphrase Ron White. I don't know how many shots I will need, but I know how many I have. If I did know, I wouldn't go out.
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  #48  
Old 09-19-2020, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by The War Wagon View Post
11

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  #49  
Old 09-19-2020, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
I generally carry a 5-shot .38 Special revolver or an 8+1 Shield for EDC. I use the 8 round magazines only because it has a pinky rest where the 7 round magazines do not. I also have a G36 (6+1) on my license and don't have a problem with this capacity.

I see lots of interest in higher capacity carry guns such as the Sig 365. I'm not sure I understand why. I have a G19 with 15 round magazine on my license but almost never carry it. Too large and very heavy (high cap adds a lot of weight to the firearm).

This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?

In my experience, I read of only a few shots (if any) are fired. Mostly, just the presentation of the carry gun stops the threat (something like 10:1 to shots fired).

Opinions?

Dan

I always considered 6 rounds to be fine for most situations

But with the loony leftists BLM/ANTIFA swarm tactics, I just don’t think even 11 is enough anymore. those people have lost their effing minds. I see thenm chase down a guy with a M4 and a 30 round mags with bare hands and improvised blunt force weapons.

As much as you can comfortably carry is my current line of thinking, in my case 21.
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  #50  
Old 09-19-2020, 7:41 PM
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With the P365 XL you have nearly and identical "footprint" as the Shield. But get the 10 round capacity for CA argument sake. So why carry 10 rounds versus 6,7,8? WHY NOT?

If you get nearly an identical size firearm and also have the ability to change those dimensions with grip modules and have that extra versatility, it's really a no brainier to me. If you want the smaller frame of the gun then get a P365. But truly, the XL feels nearly perfect as a balance between a G19 and your shield.

If a threat in front of you takes 6 rounds to stop, what do you have left for his buddy? Are you going to rely on being able to mag change in that split second?

https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/...-sauer-p365-xl

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
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  #51  
Old 09-19-2020, 7:42 PM
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I'm going on a short (50 miles or so) motorcycle ride tomorrow morning. I will have a G19 with std cap mag on my hip.

Oh and my Shield in a vest pocket...

Dan
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  #52  
Old 09-19-2020, 8:04 PM
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I have Magguts magazine mods for my Shield, gives me 11 in the gun.
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  #53  
Old 09-21-2020, 10:31 AM
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If I have my Shield, I carry it with a 7 round magazine, with the Hyve +1 base on it. I could just as easily carry it with the regular 8 round magazine, but I like the Hyve +1 extension version for a couple of reasons. First, because it doesn't have a plastic sleeve that can come off. Second, because it makes a much better impact weapon if things get that dire. I will also carry a 10 round magazine with me if I am going anyplace out of the ordinary. That is the standard 8 round magazine with a Hyve +2 extension on it.

-Mb
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  #54  
Old 09-21-2020, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gun toting monkeyboy View Post
If I have my Shield, I carry it with a 7 round magazine, with the Hyve +1 base on it. I could just as easily carry it with the regular 8 round magazine, but I like the Hyve +1 extension version for a couple of reasons. First, because it doesn't have a plastic sleeve that can come off. Second, because it makes a much better impact weapon if things get that dire. I will also carry a 10 round magazine with me if I am going anyplace out of the ordinary. That is the standard 8 round magazine with a Hyve +2 extension on it.

-Mb
Have you tested these for reliability? I hesitate to mess with stock mags unless they are proven bullet proof. It doesn't say on their website whether these include a new spring, no mention of the spring at all. Also, no dimensions that I have found, how much taller are they?

Dan
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  #55  
Old 09-22-2020, 2:13 PM
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So you are at the ATM and two guys approach - 1 confronts you - the other stands a couple of steps back. Do you think 1 round to perp 1 is all that is needed?

When I practice, I average 5 shots to the body as I retreat from perp 1 - I still need ammo to deal with perp 2....

I don't EVER want to see me slide lock in a gun fight..... (but I do practice reloads, so I am prepared)

Steve
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