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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #41  
Old 05-10-2018, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
the lights don't tell you squat about where your hits and misses actually landed.

Back to those damn nuances



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  #42  
Old 05-10-2018, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Gas gun matches are supposed to limit the range to 800 yards. The Valkyrie has a very similar trajectory to the 6.5 CM well beyond that.







Idunno. The only Savage .223 I have is the budget Axis, and I think they only have one action size. They limit the operation by putting in a piece on the trigger guard or something like that.







Yeah, but in the long range game nobody cares about 60 gr bullets. That's the whole reason for the Valkyrie being - 90 gr bullets.







They included one with my .223. I even stuffed 10 rounds into it to make sure.







Hey, maybe I'll be a pioneer.







Isn't that in the OLDEN days? I though they mostly all had lights on the targets now.


Iíve yet to shoot a match with lights on targets...not saying they are not out there but I havenít seen any


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  #43  
Old 05-10-2018, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Should we even get into points lost to the lack of visual target movement from the lightweight bullets with him?


Probably not


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  #44  
Old 05-10-2018, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
Back to those damn nuances



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Lol hate em


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  #45  
Old 05-10-2018, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Don't you HAVE to use 5.56/.223 in an AR15 by rule?
You have to shoot a 223 (or 308) to be a service rifle (and a 4.5 power scope) but you can shoot the same rifle in other calibers as a match rifle (with any scope). Like I said we all shoot together but you declare your class at sign-in. Over the years sometimes a match rifle wins the match and sometimes a service rifle wins the match. With the newest rules the Match Rifle has the advantage on paper but those Service rifle shooters can hold hard, so don't count them out.
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  #46  
Old 05-10-2018, 7:54 PM
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Originally Posted by russ69 View Post
You have to shoot a 223 (or 308) to be a service rifle (and a 4.5 power scope) but you can shoot the same rifle in other calibers as a match rifle (with any scope). Like I said we all shoot together but you declare your class at sign-in. Over the years sometimes a match rifle wins the match and sometimes a service rifle wins the match. With the newest rules the Match Rifle has the advantage on paper but those Service rifle shooters can hold hard, so don't count them out.

I think Sig is kinda been asking or alluding to, Positional like PRS or NRL, maybe the many other match types inspired by them; He can clarify..


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  #47  
Old 05-10-2018, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by diver160651 View Post
I think Sig is kinda been asking or alluding to, Positional like PRS or NRL, maybe the many other match types inspired by them; He can clarify...
The OP went MIA but that didn't stop us from having a nice chin wag and stating our opinions.
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  #48  
Old 05-10-2018, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by russ69 View Post
The OP went MIA but that didn't stop us from having a nice chin wag and stating our opinions.
The OP comes to me for his rebarrelling work so if he wants one in a bolt rifle, I suppose I will be getting a reamer...
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  #49  
Old 05-11-2018, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
Not at most club matches.
Don't confuse the videos you have seen of the national matches with what you can expect to see at club matches.

And even if your local club did setup lights, the lights don't tell you squat about where your hits and misses actually landed.
If it recoils out of the scope I'm not going to see impacts either. As for misses, as I said before, I think the terrain around here is going to prevent that anyway. Too much brush and foliage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
The .223 WSSM was developed without regard for the long heavy bullets, but looking at the SAAMI drawings for the .223 WSSM and the .224 Valkyrie, the neck lengths are nearly the same (0.2639 vs. 0.2693 respectively) and the shoulder angle is 2 degrees apart (28* vs. 30* respectively). In fact, the Valkyrie looks an awful lot like a skinnier .223 WSSM.

If you really wanted to be a pioneer you'd be shoving 90-100 grain .224 caliber bullets into a .223 WSSM and shooting it from an AR (heh).

IIRC LynnJr loads and (or used to) shoots a WSSM. It has other problems, but I'd wager he has, or has seen someone, load big long bullets in the .223 WSSM. Or maybe not, since no one really wants to shoot 90-100 grain bullets in a .224

Build a WSSM, bring it back, MACA (Make Ammo Cheap Again), increase the value of all those oldish rifles no one knows what to do with anymore, create a secondary market for Super Short chassis with sweet rails for lasers and night scopes and stuff!
Nah, I'm not going to be THAT much of a pioneer. Can't buy loaded ammo and I've never seen a barrel for sale in that cartridge. Why would I want to make life harder when I can just go Valkyrie?
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  #50  
Old 05-11-2018, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The OP comes to me for his rebarrelling work so if he wants one in a bolt rifle, I suppose I will be getting a reamer...
Cool, he gets to be a pioneer.
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  #51  
Old 05-11-2018, 6:16 AM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Just get a 22BR.
How do you stuff a 308 parent case into a AR15?

Diver
The OP asked if it was worth tooling up for the Valkerie. No mention of AR.

OP
If you have a specific discipline in mind that would help and by "tooling up" does that include a reamer?

When The WSSM cartridges came out they limited there overall length too much in my opinion. Next problem was they wanted alot of velocity without brass issues so they made the brass very very thick. When shooters started to reload for factory guns you couldn't download the cartridge because the brass was so thick light loads would soot up the brass or collapse it. To keep the overall length short they deep seated the bullets and to get some accuracy that meant they then needed to shorten the throat to avoid huge jumps for the bullet.
If a shooters Tooling Up was to include a reamer you could pick the bullet of your choice then seat it so the boattail/bearing surface junction was 0.050 in front of the neck/shoulder junction. You would also spec the neck dimension so the brass was 0.014 thick and add the amount of neck clearance you want.0.224 + 0.014 + 0.014 + 0.002 = 0.254 neck with 0.001 per side clearance and you get to neck turn your brass.

If Tooling Up means no reamer and no reloading I don't have a answer.

The advantage to the 22BR is the reamers already exist and heavy bullet load data can be found on some of the specialty forums plus you use Lapua 6BR brass.

If we had more specifics we could take a better swing at it.

At our matches we use lights and they operate well when the guy putting them up does it correctly. It took me about 2 seasons to figure it all out. We use the lights because at our distances there are no ranges with pits and safety would be an issue. In the desert the misses can be seen 90% of the time. In NorCal misses near the gongs can be seen 50% of the time and the lighter the bullet used the harder it is to spot the misses.
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Last edited by LynnJr; 05-11-2018 at 6:21 AM..
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  #52  
Old 05-11-2018, 2:59 PM
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Yes, but 22BR is a dead caliber, if it was ever alive at all. At least compared to the Valkyrie, where you can order loaded ammo online. Well, if you're not in CA anyway. The Valkyrie is being chambered in a bunch of AR's now, with probably more on the way. Don't care abut AR's you say. But AR owners go through a lot of ammo, which makes ammo suppliers happy, which keeps development of the cartridge going.

As for spotting misses, easier to do in the California desert, which is a wasteland compared to the Arizona high desert. Our desert trees are 6 to 10 feet tall. The brush is 3 to 4 feet tall, and half of the bushes have branches touching branches of another bush. It's not easy seeing the ground 50 yards away much less 500 yards away. Maybe match directors here only put targets in clear spots, or doze clearings for targets, but I'm not counting on that.
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  #53  
Old 05-11-2018, 6:33 PM
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SigStroker
My post was geared towards the Original Poster who said is it worth Tooling Up for the Valkerie.
If Tooling Up means buying a factory barrel and factory ammo then maybe.
If Tooling Up means he will be reloading for it and having a barrel fitted then the answer is no as it doesn't offer anything special.
Tooling Up means different things do different people.
As for the 22BR being dead it's as dead as the 30BR 6 Dasher 6BRX 6PPC 6BRDX 6BRA and 300 Ackley all of which continue to dominate the accuracy world.
You just can't buy factory ammo at Walmart for them.
Accuracy and factory ammo and factory barrel have very little in common.
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Last edited by LynnJr; 05-11-2018 at 6:39 PM..
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  #54  
Old 11-02-2018, 5:03 PM
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Sniper's Hide guys take a semi-scientific look at the Valkyrie:



Then they give it a try, in a bolt gun even:



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  #55  
Old 11-20-2018, 12:14 AM
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Then again at 2100 yards:

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