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  #1  
Old 03-07-2018, 5:24 PM
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Default FFL Handgun Transfer Question

I know Iíve read this somewhere, but what I found pertains to AWís; I know someone (Librarian IIRC) mentioned a date.

I have a Smith Model 19 snubby that was bought from a guy at a gun show in 1975. As far as I know there was no requirement to go through an FFL at that time. Was that incorrect? There were hundreds of transactions going on there, and I donít remember anything but a bill of sale, which I still have. Iím sure the older gentleman I bought it from Walked West a long time ago.

I want to carry this as a CCW, but want to make sure itís legal as well. Thanks for your expertise on this question.


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Old 03-07-2018, 6:28 PM
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There is a wiki with the info on when PPTs had to go through a FFL, see below, it was 1991.

The department might want the firearm listed under your name to have it on a CCW. If that is the case, you can use the voluntary reporting for on the CA DOJ firearms web page. If they don't require it, then you don't need to do anything.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...ealers.2C_1991
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Old 03-08-2018, 6:54 AM
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D.O.J. will require that any handgun on your CCW permit has to be a "registered" handgun. Locally, my S.O. requires it as well.
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Old 03-08-2018, 7:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
There is a wiki with the info on when PPTs had to go through a FFL, see below, it was 1991.



The department might want the firearm listed under your name to have it on a CCW. If that is the case, you can use the voluntary reporting for on the CA DOJ firearms web page. If they don't require it, then you don't need to do anything.



http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...ealers.2C_1991


Great, thanks for the info. That links answers a lot of questions.


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Old 03-08-2018, 7:07 AM
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Default FFL Handgun Transfer Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
D.O.J. will require that any handgun on your CCW permit has to be a "registered" handgun. Locally, my S.O. requires it as well.
Thanks for the info. But Iím sorry, what does D.O.J. have to do with the issuance of a County CCW?

Do they have input into it as well? I thought it was up to the Sheriffs Office only.

Iíll follow Kemasaís post and if the SO wants it to be registered Iíll self register it on the DOJ site so I can carry it. Appreciate the feedback.

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Old 03-08-2018, 7:24 AM
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Default FFL Handgun Transfer Question

Follow-up: IF the guy I bought it from back then were still alive, would it be better to do a PPT anyway, even though it wasnít required at the time, just to officially get it out of his name with the DOJ?

Maybe Iím overthinking it... guess the DOJ form online will do.


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Old 03-08-2018, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svashtar View Post
Thanks for the info. But Iím sorry, what does D.O.J. have to do with the issuance of a County CCW?

Do they have input into it as well? I thought it was up to the Sheriffs Office only.

Iíll follow Kemasaís post and if the SO wants it to be registered Iíll self register it on the DOJ site so I can carry it. Appreciate the feedback.

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D.O.J. will do a background check on you and the gun. Per D.O.J. it must be a registered handgun. I've had CCW recipients who wanted to carry their inherited (unregistered) handguns and were advised by D.O.J that they couldn't due to it being an unregistered. Some were subsequently registered and some chose not to.
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
D.O.J. will do a background check on you and the gun. Per D.O.J. it must be a registered handgun. I've had CCW recipients who wanted to carry their inherited (unregistered) handguns and were advised by D.O.J that they couldn't due to it being an unregistered. Some were subsequently registered and some chose not to.
I can verify that my Ccw was issued with a firearm that was not registered to me. DOJ runs a background check on you, itís up to the issuing agency to check if the gun is in your name or not or if they care
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:19 AM
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Default FFL Handgun Transfer Question

Got it, makes sense. But this kind of begs the question: I have the DOJ link from the CCW forum to pay the $19 and register this old revolver, but how can they do that without checking with the previous owner, who bought it new sometime in the late Ď60ís? What if I swiped it back at that gun show 43 years ago? Just saying. Seems like a hole in the process that the later PPT fixes.

In this case it doesnít matter because I have a signed Bill of Sale if asked, and Iím sure the seller is long departed in any case, but I could see the system being misused.


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Last edited by Svashtar; 03-08-2018 at 9:22 AM..
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2018, 9:23 AM
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You are assuming that they really care. If it listed as stolen, then they might do something, otherwise they like to know who owns what, which comes close to gun registration.
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Old 03-08-2018, 9:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
D.O.J. will require that any handgun on your CCW permit has to be a "registered" handgun. Locally, my S.O. requires it as well.
Not a DOJ thing. Its only your Sheriff doing that.
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svashtar View Post
Got it, makes sense. But this kind of begs the question: I have the DOJ link from the CCW forum to pay the $19 and register this old revolver, but how can they do that without checking with the previous owner, who bought it new sometime in the late Ď60ís? What if I swiped it back at that gun show 43 years ago? Just saying. Seems like a hole in the process that the later PPT fixes.

In this case it doesnít matter because I have a signed Bill of Sale if asked, and Iím sure the seller is long departed in any case, but I could see the system being misused.


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Same issue with anything bought before 1991 and not subsequently transferred in CA 1991 or later.

Despite the apparent wishes of some politicians, it is not the law in CA that the government must know about all guns.
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:00 PM
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Default FFL Handgun Transfer Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Same issue with anything bought before 1991 and not subsequently transferred in CA 1991 or later.



Despite the apparent wishes of some politicians, it is not the law in CA that the government must know about all guns.

Well, thank God for that anyway. Hopefully that wonít change anytime soon.

Iíll get this registered to me legally so I can carry it on my CCW, itís lighter and handier than any other gun I own, but I wouldnít be bothering otherwise.

I appreciate the info.


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Old 03-08-2018, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke8319 View Post
D.O.J. will require that any handgun on your CCW permit has to be a "registered" handgun. Locally, my S.O. requires it as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Not a DOJ thing. Its only your Sheriff doing that.
Correct DOJ has no such requirement.

...in fact, when DoJ records the submission from the issuing agency it will actually generate an AFS record for any firearms which don't already have one.

So, if AFS records are the means by which something is 'registered' adding an unregistered handgun to a license to carry actually registers it.
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Old 03-08-2018, 12:08 PM
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Correct DOJ has no such requirement.

...in fact, when DoJ records the submission from the issuing agency it will actually generate an AFS record for any firearms which don't already have one.

So, if AFS records are the means by which something is 'registered' adding an unregistered handgun to a license to carry actually registers it.

Good to know! So maybe I donít need to bother with the DOJ Firearms Ownership Report then? Just add it to my license from the get go...?

Iíll see what the County and the Instructor have to say, thanks.


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Old 03-08-2018, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Correct DOJ has no such requirement.

...in fact, when DoJ records the submission from the issuing agency it will actually generate an AFS record for any firearms which don't already have one.

So, if AFS records are the means by which something is 'registered' adding an unregistered handgun to a license to carry actually registers it.
Exactly my point.
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Old 03-09-2018, 6:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Correct DOJ has no such requirement.

...in fact, when DoJ records the submission from the issuing agency it will actually generate an AFS record for any firearms which don't already have one.

So, if AFS records are the means by which something is 'registered' adding an unregistered handgun to a license to carry actually registers it.


FYI, I created an account on CFARS today and got this registered in like 10 minutes. Very easy, paid my $19, so hopefully after 40+ years it will ďofficiallyĒ be mine so I can carry it on my CCW. Hopefully it wonít take more than 60-days or so to get confirmation from the DOJ.


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Old 03-09-2018, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Svashtar View Post
I want to carry this as a CCW, but want to make sure itís legal as well. Thanks for your expertise on this question.
Two ways to go... Log into the DOJ site and fill out the Voluntary Registration form, or go to a pawn shop, pawn the gun, then pick it up after a week or so... There will be a DROS and 10 day wait. The new DROS will establish the gun into AFS.

No, in 1975 there was no registration or FFL requirement for person to person transfers. That started in 1991.
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Old 03-09-2018, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
...in fact, when DoJ records the submission from the issuing agency it will actually generate an AFS record for any firearms which don't already have one.

So, if AFS records are the means by which something is 'registered' adding an unregistered handgun to a license to carry actually registers it.
This has apparently been an issue for some recent (since 2015) applicants in San Bernardino County and they were not able to have certain guns added, or had to wait until after getting AFS straightened out before they could pick up their permit.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 09-01-2018, 8:34 AM
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Default FFL Handgun Transfer Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Two ways to go... Log into the DOJ site and fill out the Voluntary Registration form, or go to a pawn shop, pawn the gun, then pick it up after a week or so... There will be a DROS and 10 day wait. The new DROS will establish the gun into AFS.

No, in 1975 there was no registration or FFL requirement for person to person transfers. That started in 1991.

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but itís clear to me I should have followed your advice about pawning it, and waiting the 10 days to get it into the system.

Next week it will be 6 months since I filled out the Firearms Ownership Report in CFARS, and I still donít have anything from the DOJ. Of course they took the $19 in two days. CFARS just says ďin progress.Ē

My first intra-familial transfer last year took about a month. Iím assuming theyíre swamped with AW registration work, but hopefully soon...
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