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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 04-16-2018, 4:00 PM
sigstroker sigstroker is offline
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Default Cleaning and breaking in a precision rifle

It was highly recommended to me that I follow this procedure:

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=13001

HOLEEEEEE CRAP!

Is this for real? What a pain in the ***. Maybe I don't want one of these type rifles. I'm from the semi and full auto world, where if it doesn't jam, it's clean enough. If it does jam, spray a bunch of CLP down it. I had an AK with a chrome lined barrel that I never cleaned once, nor intended to ever, even shooting cheap corrosive ammo through it. That's what the chrome lining is for.

BTW the AK never jammed, so it didn't even need a squirt of CLP.
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Old 04-16-2018, 4:03 PM
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Simplistic and sensationlistic.

Largely crap from a company that profits every time you need a new barrel.
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Old 04-16-2018, 4:50 PM
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Thomas "Speedy" Gonzales is a Benchrest Hall Of Fame Shooter.
I doubt he shoots what today is referred to as a Precision Rifle.
He generally chambers up 3-15 barrels at a time for Benchrest shooting and those barrels only get used for 800-1000 rounds before being replaced.
Do whatever precision rifle shooters do and you will be fine.
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Old 04-16-2018, 4:57 PM
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Yes, it's for real.
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Old 04-16-2018, 5:14 PM
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If you are just getting into it, do you think you can out shoot the rifle as it is now, following that excessive break-in or a regular break-in process?

Is you rifle a "factory precision" setup or is it custom?
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Old 04-16-2018, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
It was highly recommended to me that I follow this procedure:

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=13001

HOLEEEEEE CRAP!

Is this for real? What a pain in the ***. Maybe I don't want one of these type rifles. I'm from the semi and full auto world, where if it doesn't jam, it's clean enough. If it does jam, spray a bunch of CLP down it. I had an AK with a chrome lined barrel that I never cleaned once, nor intended to ever, even shooting cheap corrosive ammo through it. That's what the chrome lining is for.

BTW the AK never jammed, so it didn't even need a squirt of CLP.
The procedures in that article may seem excessive to you, but the article is about breaking in a barrel on a precision bolt action rifle. The article is not about chrome lined AK barrels. If you are interested in precision rifles and accuracy, go to http://www.accurateshooter.com/ and read the articles and posts. The members on that site, pursue and understand accuracy to a degree most of us will never achieve. The barrel cleaning procedure in the article is similar to established and proven methods that are extensively written about on that site.
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Old 04-16-2018, 6:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
The procedures in that article may seem excessive to you,
I'm not saying they're excessive, but I may be way too lazy for this kind of shooting. If this is the standard way of doing things, I'm going to have to re-think if I want to get into this game. I was leaning more towards an AR in .224 Valkyrie for competition anyway. Maybe they aren't as fussy.
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Old 04-16-2018, 7:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
It was highly recommended to me that I follow this procedure:

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=13001

Is this for real?.
The need for break-in in inverserly proportional to the quality of the barrel.
Premium quality barrels need very little break-in work.

I chamber a lot of bartlein and Krieger barrels.
I tell my customers to wipe them out before the first shot with a patch just to make sure there are no chips or honing swarf in the barrel.
Then go to the range and zero the scope.
It matters not if you fired just 5 rounds for the day or 50 rounds for the day.
When you get home, clean ALL the copper out of the barrel.
I recommend wipe-out and patches.
No brush is really needed.
Just clean until no more blue is coming out on the patch and make sure you are not using a brass or bronze jag that is giving you a false copper sign.
Stick with a stainless or nickel plated brass or plastic jag.

Clean the barrel like that after you first 2 or 3 range sessions.
After that, clean the barrel when accuracy drops off, usually around 300 rounds or so.
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  #9  
Old 04-16-2018, 7:19 PM
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If you're buying a quality barrel, you don't need to "break it in." Barrel break-in is a myth that was started by fudd, and perpetuated by companies and some gunsmiths by including a "break in" procedure pamphlet with NIB rifles because owners would jam phone lines asking verify if their barrel was good, and they got tired of answering the same three questions all day everyday.


All breaking in barrels does is burn money. It's a myth of the 1960's.
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Old 04-16-2018, 7:33 PM
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Buy rifle, clean rifle, shoot rifle, rifle is now broken in.
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Old 04-16-2018, 7:51 PM
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Here is a Speedy Gonzales rifle of mine in 300 Ackley made for 1000 yard Benchrest shooting.
The barrel is 1.750 inches straight cylinder 34 inches long. The trigger pull is 1.5 ounces. The forend is 6 inches wide and the forend and buttstock are parallel and perpendicular.
The barrel block is nine inches long effectively making the barrel think it is only 24 inches long after you subtract the action clearance and barrel tenon.
Barrel break-in is done because the reamer travels perpendicular to the bore and leaves tiny scratches behind. Lapping runs parallel to the bore.
If your using nylon brushes or no brush your barrel isn't getting clean enough for Benchrest shooting.
As this thread is about precision rifle shooting not Benchrest shooting do whatever the top competitors are doing in precision rifle shooting.
The Hawkeye bore scope pictured is what you will see at a Benchrest match to make sure your barrels are clean. If your not seeing bore scopes on the benches or on the tailgates you most likely don't need to break-in your barrels.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2018, 8:13 PM
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Hmm that's pretty close to what I follow for my rifle break in procedures...even on the AR bull barrels...
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Old 04-16-2018, 8:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I'm not saying they're excessive, but I may be way too lazy for this kind of shooting. If this is the standard way of doing things, I'm going to have to re-think if I want to get into this game. I was leaning more towards an AR in .224 Valkyrie for competition anyway. Maybe they aren't as fussy.
There are a lot of different types of rifle shooting sports. As you said in your first post, you are from the semi and full auto world, so benchrest may not be of interest to you. However, there is a lot to learn from those guys, they really know how to achieve accuracy. I am not interested in competitive benchrest shooting, but I like to work on finding accurate loads for my two precision rifles, which are my hunting rifles, and verifying my ability to hit distant targets at known distant ranges from a bench. Doing so, increases my confidence in knowing my rifles.
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Old 04-16-2018, 9:50 PM
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Don't waste your time. Premium barrels don't need a break in and any good precision rifle has a premium barrel.

Barrel break in is not necessary. Overrated!

Go shoot and have fun. Once my groups open up, then I clean. Most guys do more damage then good, cleaning barrels

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Old 04-16-2018, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
The procedures in that article may seem excessive to you, but the article is about breaking in a barrel on a precision bolt action rifle...The barrel cleaning procedure in the article is similar to established and proven methods that are extensively written about on that site.
Barrel break in generally helps smooth out the chamber throat. A rough throat from the chamber process or from the barrel itself, strips copper jacket and deposits this onto the lands and grooves of the barrel, usually towards the end of the muzzle.

If the gunsmith takes care in the chambering process and a good barrel is used like Bartlein, Brux, Krieger, etc, then the break in process is really minimal. Those few rounds down the barrel is helping to burnish those rough spots.

Many would argue that break-in is finished once the barrel stops depositing relatively large amounts of copper onto the end of the muzzle. That being said, I will not use any real break in process. I will shoot a handful of rounds with my magneto on, just to get some general velocities and to look for any signs of high pressure. Then, I will clean very well until all copper is gone. Next, I will throw a couple down range to foul the barrel out, and I will start shooting groups for load development.

Round count is important to me in that I am a firm believer that the newer the barrel, the better the barrel will shoot, which is why my competition barrels come off below 1,000 rounds. It all depends on how your competition guns are shot. Barrel heat kills barrels. If you consistently shoot barrels until they are almost too hot to touch, then barrel life will be less than someone who always shoots 3 shots and waits for the barrel to completely cool down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The need for break-in in inverserly proportional to the quality of the barrel.
Premium quality barrels need very little break-in work....

Clean the barrel like that after you first 2 or 3 range sessions.
After that, clean the barrel when accuracy drops off, usually around 300 rounds or so.
I will add that the break-in as I mentioned earlier, is to help smooth out the barrel throat from the chamber process.

Every 300-400 rounds, I will use Iosso borepaste or JB to get everything out. Hard carbon can also act like rough throat and will start to degrade accuracy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty_Shackleferd View Post
If you're buying a quality barrel, you don't need to "break it in." Barrel break-in is a myth that was started by fudd, and perpetuated by companies and some gunsmiths by including a "break in" procedure pamphlet with NIB rifles because owners would jam phone lines asking verify if their barrel was good, and they got tired of answering the same three questions all day everyday.

All breaking in barrels does is burn money. It's a myth of the 1960's.
I think it is largely dependent on the gunsmith's ability to chamber a barrel. If the gunsmith is good, minimal break in is needed. If the chamber job on a barrel from a good mfg is rough, it could mean more rounds to burnish the throat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
If your using nylon brushes or no brush your barrel isn't getting clean enough for Benchrest shooting.
I agree with you that nylon brushes and patches alone is not enough to clean a barrel properly.
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Last edited by bsumoba; 04-16-2018 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
It was highly recommended to me that I follow this procedure:

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=13001

HOLEEEEEE CRAP!

Is this for real? What a pain in the ***. Maybe I don't want one of these type rifles. I'm from the semi and full auto world, where if it doesn't jam, it's clean enough. If it does jam, spray a bunch of CLP down it. I had an AK with a chrome lined barrel that I never cleaned once, nor intended to ever, even shooting cheap corrosive ammo through it. That's what the chrome lining is for.

BTW the AK never jammed, so it didn't even need a squirt of CLP.
ignore the "advice" to "break in" a chrome lined barrel.

MOST arbitrary barrel break in suggestions are just that, arbitrary and are best ignored.

when trying to figure this out, put your critical thinking hat on, and crank up your level of skepticism. there is a LOT of safely ignored theory, advice and suggested procedures out there.

No one to my knowledge has ever done a control study/test to determine if even sane suggestions such as those found on Krieger and Bartlein's web sites actually do what they say they will do. BUT at least those sites are defining the suspected problem, giving a guide to address it and a way to gauge progress. which is a lot more than a lot of the advice you will find on the internet and in gun magazines.

The big problem with this debate people are basing their beliefs on samples of one. And there is no way to go back and test out the path not taken with that sample of one. we really have no way to know if the result on paper is because your broke in your barrel or because you didn't break in your barrel.

Soooo, my two cents... put on your critical thinking hat, crank up the skepticism, read up on various theories and decide if any seem reasonable and have any foundation in verifiable fact.

I would suggest if you don't already understand the problem that Bartlein and Krieger are talking about on their pages, start by doing your best to understand it. Then find a way (basically buy or borrow a bore scope) to see if your rifle barrel exhibits the issue, and if so how badly, THEN worry about if you need to take any action.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 1859sharps View Post

I would suggest if you don't already understand the problem that Bartlein and Krieger are talking about on their pages, start by doing your best to understand it.
I will add that the barrel mfg and to a certain extent, the gunsmiths are in the business of selling barrels and chambering more rifles.

I have seen many break in procedures require 50+ rounds to do so. To me, 50 rounds is like 5% of barrel life

You also see this in load development. Guys will spend lots of money, time and effort doing load development, putting lots a rounds down the barrel and chasing their tail. Various methods say you need to try different powders, bullets, etc. You need to test, and re-test, test in 0.1 gr charge weights in 5-shot groups, test seating depth every 0.002", etc. By the time they know it, they got 300 rounds down the barrel (that's like 30% of my barrel's life).
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyD View Post
There are a lot of different types of rifle shooting sports. As you said in your first post, you are from the semi and full auto world, so benchrest may not be of interest to you. However, there is a lot to learn from those guys, they really know how to achieve accuracy. I am not interested in competitive benchrest shooting, but I like to work on finding accurate loads for my two precision rifles, which are my hunting rifles, and verifying my ability to hit distant targets at known distant ranges from a bench. Doing so, increases my confidence in knowing my rifles.
Yeah, I won't be doing any benchrest or other bullseye type shooting. I would be doing PRS type shooting, or basically just throwing bullets downrange at gongs.

Okay, I can reveal now that I first saw this procedure in the MPA user manual on their website. It's pretty much verbatim what's on the Brownell's link in the OP. One of my concerns is if I take a more lackadaisical route to cleaning and breaking in, that it may void the 3/8ths moa guarantee from MPA. They use Spencer barrels (since they own them), I don't know if they fall into the "quality" category like Krieger, etc.

Even though I won't be shooting benchrest, I'd still like to avoid damaging anything just in the cleaning process.
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Old 04-17-2018, 2:06 AM
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SigStroker
Clay Spencer got into the barrel business because of quality issues he found in many of the barrels customers were supplying him.
He also made the famous Clay Spencer 103 grain 6mm bullets that set many world records and national titles.
He retired and sold the bullet making supplies to what is now called Vapor Trail Bullets.
His barrels and his bullets are used by the elite shooters who measure everything and accuracy is the only concern.
The picture shows the last batch of bullets Clay Spencer made. The late John Pretty Gun Crawford got the rest of the bucket and sold them to world record holder Robert Hoppe.
I don't know anything about MPA rifles but if it's the guys who bought out Clay Spencer it's worth following his instructions.
It's been said in this thread that barrel break-in is a myth and that there is no proof it does anything.
Today's best gunsmiths have video bore scopes and they send you a video of what the inside of your new barrel looks like.
If you don't shoot boutique bullets and regularly use your own borescope barrel break-in seems like voodoo from another planet.
To a Benchrest shooter who goes through barrels like potato chips and owns his/her own reamer this is the normal way. Loads don't change between barrels when you have your own reamer and use a quality gunsmith. Seating depth also stays the same barrel after barrel.
Follow the advice of the manufacturer they tend to know what they are doing or they don't stay in the business very long.
Your original link was taken by Brownells from the Benchrest Central website where it has been posted long before 6mmbr.com or what is now called Accurate shooter was ever started by Paul M.
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Old 04-17-2018, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
If your using nylon brushes or no brush your barrel isn't getting clean enough for Benchrest shooting.
As with everything is shooting, some would agree while others don't...

Terry Brady, 600-Yard IBS Shooter of the Year
I dont brush much, and if I do, I normally use nylon brushes.

John Brewer, U.S. F-Class Champion
Im not a fan of bronze brushes. I feel that nylon has to be easier on a bore than bronze"

Joe Entrekin, 2003 Score Shooter of Year (2004 Runner-Up)
I havent used a brush in over six years"

Joel Kendrick, 2004 IBS 600-yard Shooter of the Year
I usually clean with TM Solution, wet patches, and a nylon brush"

John Krieger, Krieger Barrels
Im not a big fan of brushes. I think brushes are more a throwback to the black powder days.We try to minimize their use"

Bill Shehane, Two-Time IBS 1000-Yard Shooter of the Year, Owner D&B Supply
Im cleaning less than ever before, and my barrels are holding up better. I clean every 30-45 rounds, and use nylon brushes"

Jerry Tierney, 2005 NBRSA 1000-Yard Champion
" I typically run a lot of rounds through the barrel before cleaning, and I rarely use a brush...Occasionally Ill use a nylon brush"
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Old 04-17-2018, 9:33 AM
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I guess I have been doing it wrong. I have always used this method.

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Old 04-17-2018, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
As with everything is shooting, some would agree while others don't...

Terry Brady, 600-Yard IBS Shooter of the Year
“I don’t brush much, and if I do, I normally use nylon brushes.”

John Brewer, U.S. F-Class Champion
“I’m not a fan of bronze brushes. I feel that nylon has to be easier on a bore than bronze"

Joe Entrekin, 2003 Score Shooter of Year (2004 Runner-Up)
“I haven’t used a brush in over six years"

Joel Kendrick, 2004 IBS 600-yard Shooter of the Year
“I usually clean with TM Solution, wet patches, and a nylon brush"

John Krieger, Krieger Barrels
“I’m not a big fan of brushes. I think brushes are more a throwback to the black powder days….We try to minimize their use"

Bill Shehane, Two-Time IBS 1000-Yard Shooter of the Year, Owner D&B Supply
“I’m cleaning less than ever before, and my barrels are holding up better. I clean every 30-45 rounds, and use nylon brushes"

Jerry Tierney, 2005 NBRSA 1000-Yard Champion
" I typically run a lot of rounds through the barrel before cleaning, and I rarely use a brush...Occasionally I’ll use a nylon brush"
Past shooters you no longer see in the winner's circle with sponsorship deals.
I shot with Jerry Tierney for about 5 years and his guns never shot the smallest groups at a match. The key to his success was they never shot big as well. He was amazingly consistent over a 3 day match.
The use of a borescope shows the carbon build-up alongside the lands and the only way to remove it without using a paste and very tight fitting Jag with patches is a good bronze brush.
Again this is for Benchrest shooting. The other disciplines require different methods.
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Last edited by LynnJr; 04-17-2018 at 4:22 PM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:17 AM
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I guess fire-lapping with bullets coated in abrasives is out of the question, here.

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Old 04-17-2018, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
As with everything is shooting, some would agree while others don't...

Terry Brady, 600-Yard IBS Shooter of the Year
“I don’t brush much, and if I do, I normally use nylon brushes.”

John Brewer, U.S. F-Class Champion
“I’m not a fan of bronze brushes. I feel that nylon has to be easier on a bore than bronze"

Joe Entrekin, 2003 Score Shooter of Year (2004 Runner-Up)
“I haven’t used a brush in over six years"

Joel Kendrick, 2004 IBS 600-yard Shooter of the Year
“I usually clean with TM Solution, wet patches, and a nylon brush"

John Krieger, Krieger Barrels
“I’m not a big fan of brushes. I think brushes are more a throwback to the black powder days….We try to minimize their use"

Bill Shehane, Two-Time IBS 1000-Yard Shooter of the Year, Owner D&B Supply
“I’m cleaning less than ever before, and my barrels are holding up better. I clean every 30-45 rounds, and use nylon brushes"

Jerry Tierney, 2005 NBRSA 1000-Yard Champion
" I typically run a lot of rounds through the barrel before cleaning, and I rarely use a brush...Occasionally I’ll use a nylon brush"
And you'll find a considerably lager number of equally famous shooters and world record holders that use a bronze brush...

Throats need a little break in. Most customs will stop coppering in 8-10 rounds. After that barrels do burnish in which is why many speed up in the 150 round range. Do what it takes to keep the carbon down. Once it gets a good grip it's a lot more work to get rid of it.

Factory barrels are a whole other story. Good, bad and ugly. Do whatever floats your boat with them.

Last edited by dpr; 04-17-2018 at 10:43 AM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:53 AM
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Has anyone here ruined a barrel by over cleaning?
I use iosso frequently with Lucas boreguides. Ive seen fire cracking and broken lands but never any damage I can attribute to over cleaning. Heck, I even pull the bronze brush back against the crown.
Im no world class shooter but if I thought for a second I could shoot better with a dirty barrel, Id certainly not clean.
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Old 04-17-2018, 1:02 PM
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The need for break-in is proportional to the quality of the barrel.I agree 100%,
Premium quality barrels need very little break-in work. I think SS barrels are less likely to foul than chrome alloy, once there broken in. I only use one piece cleaning rods and nothing that is harder than the barrel it is to be used in.And the same goes for the jags and brushes too. So No SS cleaning rods,jags or brushes because they are as hard as or harder than the barrel and have the potential to scratch the inside somewhere. Also I like to use bore guides to protect two things, obviously the bore chamber area and the trigger, from solvent. Cleaning the chamber with brushes and patches needs to be done with out the bore guide, but in a careful manner as not to get any substances in the trigger. IMO some barrels just foul more than others too, no matter what. You ether live with it or change the barrel.
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Old 04-17-2018, 1:31 PM
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OP, not use which "one of these rifles" you are looking to purchase but for instance my RPR 6.5 Creedmoor (factory barrel for now) fouls quit a bit and I did a extensive break-in process on the barrel. Firing 10 singles, cleaning after each shot. Then firing 10 doubles cleaning after each double. And finally firing 10 triples, cleaning after each triple. Very long process and tedious cleaning. Did it help, not sure how much, if any. But it's just my piece of mind that I tried. The rifle shoots very good with Prime factory ammo and even better with my reloads using Bergers 140gr Hybrids. But stills coppers more than I would like to see.
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Old 04-17-2018, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric n View Post
Has anyone here ruined a barrel by over cleaning?
I use iosso frequently with Lucas boreguides. Ive seen fire cracking and broken lands but never any damage I can attribute to over cleaning. Heck, I even pull the bronze brush back against the crown.
Im no world class shooter but if I thought for a second I could shoot better with a dirty barrel, Id certainly not clean.
My gunsmith, who is a very good shooter and shoots alongside guys like Larry Costa (some may recognize the name), believes that you cannot really overclean a barrel. I am in that same boat. You can certainly damage a barrel if not done properly, but over-properly cleaning to me, is fine.

That being said, if you have to shoot where a cold bore shot is required and you get no sighters, then you might want to foul the barrel out with a few shots so you are not shooting a clean barrel...Unless you know where you cold bore, clean barrel shot goes and where the POI shift is, then you can clean beforehand.
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Old 04-17-2018, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The need for break-in in inverserly proportional to the quality of the barrel.
Premium quality barrels need very little break-in work.

I chamber a lot of bartlein and Krieger barrels.
I tell my customers to wipe them out before the first shot with a patch just to make sure there are no chips or honing swarf in the barrel.
Then go to the range and zero the scope.
It matters not if you fired just 5 rounds for the day or 50 rounds for the day.
When you get home, clean ALL the copper out of the barrel.
I recommend wipe-out and patches.
No brush is really needed.
Just clean until no more blue is coming out on the patch and make sure you are not using a brass or bronze jag that is giving you a false copper sign.
Stick with a stainless or nickel plated brass or plastic jag.

Clean the barrel like that after you first 2 or 3 range sessions.
After that, clean the barrel when accuracy drops off, usually around 300 rounds or so.
I have a Krieger barrel that this guy chambered and installed for me. Followed this method and have had no problems.
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Old 04-17-2018, 7:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post


SigStroker
Clay Spencer got into the barrel business because of quality issues he found in many of the barrels customers were supplying him.
He also made the famous Clay Spencer 103 grain 6mm bullets that set many world records and national titles.
He retired and sold the bullet making supplies to what is now called Vapor Trail Bullets.
His barrels and his bullets are used by the elite shooters who measure everything and accuracy is the only concern.
The picture shows the last batch of bullets Clay Spencer made. The late John Pretty Gun Crawford got the rest of the bucket and sold them to world record holder Robert Hoppe.
I don't know anything about MPA rifles but if it's the guys who bought out Clay Spencer it's worth following his instructions.
It's been said in this thread that barrel break-in is a myth and that there is no proof it does anything.
Today's best gunsmiths have video bore scopes and they send you a video of what the inside of your new barrel looks like.
If you don't shoot boutique bullets and regularly use your own borescope barrel break-in seems like voodoo from another planet.
To a Benchrest shooter who goes through barrels like potato chips and owns his/her own reamer this is the normal way. Loads don't change between barrels when you have your own reamer and use a quality gunsmith. Seating depth also stays the same barrel after barrel.
Follow the advice of the manufacturer they tend to know what they are doing or they don't stay in the business very long.
Your original link was taken by Brownells from the Benchrest Central website where it has been posted long before 6mmbr.com or what is now called Accurate shooter was ever started by Paul M.
According to what's on the MPA website, they bought Spencer but left everything alone as far as operations. Maybe they just wanted to guarantee a steady and consistent supply of barrels.

https://masterpiecearms.com/precision-rifle-barrels/

Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
I guess fire-lapping with bullets coated in abrasives is out of the question, here.

David Tubb sells kits of bullets to do that.

I watched a bunch of youtubes of famous guys like John Krieger, and good shooters that were ex-military snipers, etc. Basically their break-in advice ranged from:
1) Forget break-in, just shoot it
2) Process resembling the link I posted in the OP
3) Something in-between

So basically the same things overall as in this thread, lol.
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Old 04-17-2018, 8:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
It's been said in this thread that barrel break-in is a myth and that there is no proof it does anything.
when some one says shot one, clean one for 50 rounds, no explanation why, what to look for, why 50 and not 60 or 25 or... then yes, myth, bad information, something safely ignored is 100% spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Today's best gunsmiths have video bore scopes and they send you a video of what the inside of your new barrel looks like.
And? all this does is provide evidence of a perceived problem/issue before round 1 is fired.

there are too many variables as well as a 1000 and 1 theories for barrel breaking to definitively say there is even any benefit to a formal barrel break in effort.

IF the problem is actually defined, and I think people are starting to better define the problem, then the solution should be fairly consistent no matter who is offering the literal steps. But there still needs to be some controls to give us some idea of results for the path not taken.

As I currently understand the perceived problem/issue, I can't imagine a way to establish causation..if you do x you CAUSE better accuracy. The best we can hope for is statistically high correlation. But no one has stepped forward with the time and money to do that. so we are left with assumptions based on samples of one.

steps taken as suggested by ar15barrels, krieger, or bartlein if followed carefully probably do no harm. But I have seen some pretty wild and crazy and baseless suggestions that are just plain based on superstition, myth and "everyone" does it logic.
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Old 04-17-2018, 9:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200Apples View Post
I guess fire-lapping with bullets coated in abrasives is out of the question, here.

David Tubb sells kits of bullets to do that.


A friend of mine tried these on his Bartlein barrel and ruined it.

Last edited by LWP; 04-17-2018 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:00 PM
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OTOH he has reviews from people that say they love those things.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
OTOH he has reviews from people that say they love those things.
I'm just telling you what those things did to a friends barrel.
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Old 04-18-2018, 12:36 AM
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I'm not planning to use anything like that. I was responding to the guy that was talking like fire-lapping is a big joke - there are people that believe in that. Some of them are very accomplished shooters.
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Old 04-18-2018, 2:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 1859sharps View Post
when some one says shot one, clean one for 50 rounds, no explanation why, what to look for, why 50 and not 60 or 25 or... then yes, myth, bad information, something safely ignored is 100% spot on.



And? all this does is provide evidence of a perceived problem/issue before round 1 is fired.

there are too many variables as well as a 1000 and 1 theories for barrel breaking to definitively say there is even any benefit to a formal barrel break in effort.

IF the problem is actually defined, and I think people are starting to better define the problem, then the solution should be fairly consistent no matter who is offering the literal steps. But there still needs to be some controls to give us some idea of results for the path not taken.

As I currently understand the perceived problem/issue, I can't imagine a way to establish causation..if you do x you CAUSE better accuracy. The best we can hope for is statistically high correlation. But no one has stepped forward with the time and money to do that. so we are left with assumptions based on samples of one.

steps taken as suggested by ar15barrels, krieger, or bartlein if followed carefully probably do no harm. But I have seen some pretty wild and crazy and baseless suggestions that are just plain based on superstition, myth and "everyone" does it logic.

Actually the steps have been taken and the results have been posted you just haven't visited the correct websites.
The barrel makers know what works but they don't sell 100% of there barrels to Benchrest Shooters.
There barrels are used by everyone in the shooting sports.
Guys coming on here with a sample size of one barrel that don't own a reamer and who shoot factory ammo dominate this forum. They don't own a borescope they don't know if whatever cleaning method they might be using is even working.
Welcome to the internet.
The more accurate the discipline the more cleaning that you will see.
If dirty barrels are such a plus why aren't the major manufacturers pre-dirtying them for us? Why lap them if scratches are a good thing?
It cost money to lap a barrel so let's all order them unlapped right?
Joel Kendrick is the man behind the Melonite process and he is claiming 8000+ rounds on his barrel. Any of that have to do with him pushing Melonite? Any national champions besides him saying 8000+ rounds per barrel how about Krieger and Bartlein?
On the whole of CalGuns there are maybe 6 posters that need to properly break in there barrels.
98% have never properly cleaned a barrel nor do they have the gear to even know that.
And this is how myths get started and passed on and why those that actually know never post.
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Old 04-18-2018, 3:09 AM
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SigStroker
Clay Spencer was the bad end of a bunch of jokes after he posted the truth about barrels and bullet making. His name got out there and shooters with an open mind gave his stuff a try and set all kinds of records and national titles.
He would put your name down on a waiting list and when he got to you he would call and let you buy or sell to the next name on the list.
The bullets would all weigh the same but batch to batch they would vary about 1-2 grains because of how he set up the cores in his bullets.
Berger bullets copied that process in what they call there Column Bullets for short-range Benchrest shooting.
Clay had a video borescope and knew what he was talking about.
The bigger question that nobody has asked would be what if you don't do a break-in and how does that affect accuracy?
I will let the experts here answer that question.
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Old 04-18-2018, 3:33 AM
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For most casual shooters of course accuracy is essential. Cleaning is required. However, like car care folks have opinions about whats needed.
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Old 04-18-2018, 7:33 AM
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Another perspective on barrel cleaning while breaking in a barrel is the amount of time invested. You can break in a barrel, by cleaning it after every round and it will only take an extra 30 minutes. As a quantifiable factor, I noticed as the break-in/cleaning process progressed, there was less copper being removed from my bore.

To the naysayers, I say; since it's your barrel, if you don't want to break it in, then don't. When you do not have the experience of using a quality precision barrel, your opinion is a mere recital of second hand information.
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnJr View Post
Joel Kendrick is the man behind the Melonite process and he is claiming 8000+ rounds on his barrel. Any of that have to do with him pushing Melonite? Any national champions besides him saying 8000+ rounds per barrel how about Krieger and Bartlein?
I have had a few barrels melonited.
We put them on an action, ran about 30 rounds through them with a few benchrest cleanings in between and then completely cleaned them before melonite processing.
The accurate barrel life was longer than an untreated barrel, but nowhere near 8000 rounds.
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