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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 06-23-2018, 3:38 PM
flintforever flintforever is offline
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Default Laws in California

Guys like to ask can I ship my Ruger old army to a buyer priority USPS mail who resident of California with out going threw a FFL.
With new laws comming out though I ask here first

I
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Old 06-23-2018, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintforever View Post
Guys like to ask can I ship my Ruger old army to a buyer priority USPS mail who resident of California with out going threw a FFL.
With new laws comming out though I ask here first
The laws on this have not changed since 2014, and there is no pending legislation that would change them.

Federally, all interstate transfers require an FFL to be involved.
If the buyer is an 03FFL, this meets this qualification.

California requires that all *shipped* firearms coming into the state be received by an 01FFL, even if the buyer is an 03FFL.
In-state, an 03FFL may meet with a seller and personally take possession of a long gun without the need for an 01FFL. All handguns must transfer through an FFL.

I do not know if an in-state person can legally ship a long gun directly to an 03FFL (under California law, Federally it is permitted). Your profile doesn't list your location to it makes it harder to provide specific answers.

If the buyer is not an 03FFL holder, it must go through an 01FFL regardless of the C&R status.
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Last edited by Cokebottle; 06-23-2018 at 3:46 PM..
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2018, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The laws on this have not changed since 2014, and there is no pending legislation that would change them.

Federally, all interstate transfers require an FFL to be involved.
If the buyer is an 03FFL, this meets this qualification.

California requires that all *shipped* firearms coming into the state be received by an 01FFL, even if the buyer is an 03FFL.
In-state, an 03FFL may meet with a seller and personally take possession of a long gun without the need for an 01FFL. All handguns must transfer through an FFL.

I do not know if an in-state person can legally ship a long gun directly to an 03FFL (under California law, Federally it is permitted). Your profile doesn't list your location to it makes it harder to provide specific answers.

If the buyer is not an 03FFL holder, it must go through an 01FFL regardless of the C&R status.
Even a black powder pistol?
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Old 06-23-2018, 4:09 PM
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Black powder pistols/revolvers do not have to comply with CA firearms laws unless you are "carrying" loaded. Federal law does not consider it a "firearm."
They can be mailed/shipped any way you like. (unloaded, of course.)
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Old 06-23-2018, 4:17 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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Yes black powder or muzzleloader firearms no license required. If you get a cylinder that accepts modern smokeless centerfire loads then no cigar.
I just checked it is cap and ball so no problem shipping direct to buyer.

Last edited by edgerly779; 06-23-2018 at 4:22 PM..
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2018, 4:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The laws on this have not changed since 2014, and there is no pending legislation that would change them.

Federally, all interstate transfers require an FFL to be involved.
If the buyer is an 03FFL, this meets this qualification.

California requires that all *shipped* firearms coming into the state be received by an 01FFL, even if the buyer is an 03FFL.
In-state, an 03FFL may meet with a seller and personally take possession of a long gun without the need for an 01FFL. All handguns must transfer through an FFL.

I do not know if an in-state person can legally ship a long gun directly to an 03FFL (under California law, Federally it is permitted). Your profile doesn't list your location to it makes it harder to provide specific answers.

If the buyer is not an 03FFL holder, it must go through an 01FFL regardless of the C&R status.
no.....the Ruger Old Army is a BP revolver, it can be shipped to the buyers door no FFL required.

just don't ship any powder or caps with the thing OP, USPS dont like things that ignite or go boom.
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Old 06-24-2018, 5:45 AM
M1NM M1NM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
California requires that all *shipped* firearms coming into the state be received by an 01FFL, .
Read up on the laws - black powder guns are not considered firearms. By the Feds or state. 100% legal to order by mail and ship by mail/UPS/FedX.
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Old 06-24-2018, 7:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
Read up on the laws - black powder guns are not considered firearms. By the Feds or state. 100% legal to order by mail and ship by mail/UPS/FedX.
Except that California does define black powder guns as "Firearms." Please refer to Penal Code section 16520.

Please note that "Black Powder" has no meaning in California statute, but when you do examine the statutes, black powder firearms fall within the definition of "Antique Firearms" (even if recently manufactured). Please refer to section 16170. Unloaded Antique Firearms are exempted from many provisions of Penal Code, including those sections governing their sale and transfer that would otherwise require an FFL. Please refer to section 16520(d) for a listing of the exempted Penal Code sections.

Additionally, please note that once an Antique Firearm is loaded, the exemptions no longer apply. It's also important to note that the Antique Firearm exemptions do not apply to the prohibitions on CCW, Carrying a Loaded Firearm, and to Prohibited Persons.
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Old 07-08-2018, 12:36 PM
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Soon you will not even be able to ship a bow and arrow.
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2018, 4:25 PM
sakosf sakosf is offline
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Mfg before Jan 1, 1899 is classified as a antique. Modern mfg replica percussion & flintlock are treated the same.
Here is a "sold" list of firearms from a well known internet dealer, that qualified as antiques

http://www.empirearms.com/antique.htm
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  #11  
Old 07-10-2018, 7:44 AM
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Just FYI, you may want to look farther into this. I belive the Ruger Old Army doesn't fall under the definition of antique,

16) The term ‘‘antique firearm’’ means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with
a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or
similar type of ignition system) manufactured
in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in
subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using
rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition,
or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire
fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured
in the United States and which is
not readily available in the ordinary channels
of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading
shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed
to use black powder, or a black powder
substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.
For purposes of this subparagraph, the
term ‘‘antique firearm’’ shall not include any
weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or
receiver, any firearm which is converted into
a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading
weapon which can be readily converted to
fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel,
bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

Its not old,
Its not a replica,
Its not a muzzle loader.

I called Ruger and the ATF on these and they said a 4473 needed to be executed. It may be close, but it doesnt fall under the deffeneition of antique under the GCA. I may be wrong, but look into it.

Please, do NOT base it on, "well I bought one and they shipped it right to me" because we all know dealers make mistakes.

Again, I could be wrong.
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Last edited by shootsocal_dave; 07-10-2018 at 8:40 AM..
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:37 PM
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Maybe this already exists - and it seems to change too dang often but - is there/can we make a sticky (and I volunteer to write it/put it together if someone wants to help me along with it) that covers as many of the C&R situations and laws and scenarios as possible?

I'd love one thread that overviews the laws now on all the different kinds of transfers (03 to 03 in state, out of state, long/handguns, non-03 to 03 in/out..shipping in/out of state, and all of the above - also the laws on 03 and COE and shipping ammo and how those will change over time) and so on.

Maybe it exists in a thread already elsewhere, but I'd love a sticky here - something like "C&R Law questions? Check here first!" or the like.

Thanks,

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  #13  
Old 07-14-2018, 10:03 AM
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I no longer live there. But I do know a Ruger Army Black Powder percussion gun can ship right to me here. Biggest thing is it is not a Firearm is the fact it does not fire a self contained cartridge. Being modern made has nothing to do with it. It is still a antique design and firing system... It may not be a true repro of a Remington. But still exempt, or at least in sane places where we others live.

New repro percussion revolvers made my Uberti and Pietta are new made also. Has nothing to do with it.

Last edited by AR22; 07-14-2018 at 10:06 AM..
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