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  #121  
Old 05-24-2018, 8:37 AM
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Finding a specific load for the pistol in question is also very important, especially if you're looking for extreme precision. My CZ Shadow, for instance, doesn't like the loads I feed my X5 and G17. IIRC, CZ's need a shorter COAL.
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  #122  
Old 05-24-2018, 9:14 AM
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My 9mm Browning is very accurate but I still bought a 1911. You can't have just one.
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  #123  
Old 05-24-2018, 10:41 AM
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CZ Tactical Sport is my vote for the most accurate out of the box.

It is a competition gun with a ~2 lb trigger!

That being said, I would NOT use this for home defense. The trigger is too light IMO for home defense and in that scenario I'd much rather choose my P226 or a 1911 with a proven reliable track record.

Just keep in mind what your purpose is.
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  #124  
Old 05-24-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 89LT1 View Post
Never heard of anyone doing this before. Have you worked with a specific LGS? or have a thread about this?
If you are in SoCal, at least I know RifleGear or 2A zone can do this (No-Mag sales / DROS with your own mag).
I did SP-01 no mag + Mec-Gar 10 round mag, CZ75TS 40SW + GunMagwarehouse 10 round mag.
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  #125  
Old 05-24-2018, 11:29 AM
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The gun will be more accurate than the user.
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  #126  
Old 05-24-2018, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bmk20398 View Post
If you are in SoCal, at least I know RifleGear or 2A zone can do this (No-Mag sales / DROS with your own mag).
I did SP-01 no mag + Mec-Gar 10 round mag, CZ75TS 40SW + GunMagwarehouse 10 round mag.
What city are they located in? Might be worth the drive 9depending on how far away it is).
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  #127  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:01 PM
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What city are they located in? Might be worth the drive 9depending on how far away it is).
Riflegear.com
Fountain Valley, Orange County, 2-3 min from 405
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  #128  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Den60 View Post
The gun will be more accurate than the user.
A Smart car is faster than me, but I still would never buy one.
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  #129  
Old 05-24-2018, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmk20398 View Post
If you are in SoCal, at least I know RifleGear or 2A zone can do this (No-Mag sales / DROS with your own mag).
I did SP-01 no mag + Mec-Gar 10 round mag, CZ75TS 40SW + GunMagwarehouse 10 round mag.
Awesome! i know that 2A zone has changed hands ill see if they are willing to do this also.

Thanks
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  #130  
Old 05-24-2018, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BroncoMustang View Post
Hi guys,
I have been thinking of selling my 1911 and then taking the money I get from that to buy a very accurate 9mm handgun, but before doing so I wanted to get others opinions on what they think would be the most accurate 9mm handgun. I would prefer to get one with a 5 inch barrel, thinking that the longer it is, the more accurate it will be, but am not married to the idea that it must be 5 inches long (provided it is very accurate). What are your thoughts, or what has your experience taught you, that I can learn from?
Couple of questions.

Is this for Olympic-level target competition?

The majority of the handguns sold in this state, fired from a ransom rest (holding jig, no human touching it) will be very similar in accuracy. In other words, "the gun is more accurate than you are" unless you are one of a very elite group of shooters for whom a highly accurate pistol barrel would be at all advantageous.

Semi-autos must have some "jiggle room" for parts to move around. That room, which is necessary for them to cycle reliably, also allows the barrel and frame to sit slightly differently for each shot.

So I am assuming you are talking about single-shot target grade pistols or about a top tier revolver.

A long barrel does not make a firearm more accurate. A stiff barrel, with very little flex, makes a firearm more accurate. This can mean extra heavy barrel, or very short barrel compared to length (less length along which to flex under the cartridge detonation). A short barreled firearm with a very snug chamber, barrel mounted solidly to the frame, and high quality optic of some sort also mounted directly to the frame, would be more accurate than a long-barreled semi-auto with iron sights.

Again, both of those would be more accurate than the majority of shooters are capable of realizing any meaningful benefit from.

If we are talking not about a gun that is, in-and-of-itself, "more accurate" and rather a gun that shoots accurately for YOU, then that is largely going to depend on grip/hand size, how well you master recoil, and how good your eyes & aim are. In terms of barrel length, that alone won't make a firearm more accurate... but a gun with iron sights that has a larger distance between front and rear sight, might make YOU more accurate with that gun.

You should probably clarify which kind of "accuracy" you are looking for, before the discussion can make much meaningful headway here.
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  #131  
Old 05-24-2018, 3:20 PM
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If you are looking for accuracy, I suggest you start by shooting, a lot. If you can make time to shoot every week, your shot pattern will tighten in short order.

I have "several" pistols to choose from, but I find that my usual choice is either a Les Baer Premier II .45 (1 1/2" at 50 yards guarantee), a CZ Tactical Sport (in either 9 mm or 40 S&W), and either a Glock 34 or 35 (even better are the 17L, a 24, or even a 41).

A few comments on CZ 75 TS:
1. The trigger is WONDERFUL straight out of the box. Guess about 2 lb pull. If you can find wonder at a dealer, try pulling the trigger with your eyes closed.
2. The corners of the rear sight are a bit sharp; rounding the corners with a stone or replacing the sight would help.
3. There is some aftermarket support, to finding better parts is not very hard.

Comments on Glock:
1. OK trigger, that is easily replaced or improved.
2. Probably already comes with an extended slide release.
3. There are all sorts of aftermarket parts available.

Comments on Les Baer.
1. If I had to sell all of my 1911s, and keep only one, I would choose the Les Baer.
2. My first clover leaf was with the Les Baer; nearly two shots through the same hole!
3. Even after 2,000 rounds, this gun is still very tight.

Another Brand to look into, in the Used Marketplace, are the EAA or Tanfoglio line of pistols.
1. The factory has caliber conversion kits. It takes under a minute to convert to .22lr, 9x19 mm, 38 super, 9x21 mm, 40 S&W, 10 MM, .41 AE, .45 ACP, and a few others.
2. Factory and aftermarket support is very good.
3. The Tanfoglio Xtreme line of pistols comes from the factory with a trigger job and custom parts. (My daughter's favorite is a 9 mm long slide (6"), it is hard to get my pistol back from being "borrowed".
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  #132  
Old 05-24-2018, 6:36 PM
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Glock 17L
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  #133  
Old 05-24-2018, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Couple of questions.

Is this for Olympic-level target competition?

The majority of the handguns sold in this state, fired from a ransom rest (holding jig, no human touching it) will be very similar in accuracy. In other words, "the gun is more accurate than you are" unless you are one of a very elite group of shooters for whom a highly accurate pistol barrel would be at all advantageous.

Semi-autos must have some "jiggle room" for parts to move around. That room, which is necessary for them to cycle reliably, also allows the barrel and frame to sit slightly differently for each shot.

So I am assuming you are talking about single-shot target grade pistols or about a top tier revolver.

A long barrel does not make a firearm more accurate. A stiff barrel, with very little flex, makes a firearm more accurate. This can mean extra heavy barrel, or very short barrel compared to length (less length along which to flex under the cartridge detonation). A short barreled firearm with a very snug chamber, barrel mounted solidly to the frame, and high quality optic of some sort also mounted directly to the frame, would be more accurate than a long-barreled semi-auto with iron sights.

Again, both of those would be more accurate than the majority of shooters are capable of realizing any meaningful benefit from.

If we are talking not about a gun that is, in-and-of-itself, "more accurate" and rather a gun that shoots accurately for YOU, then that is largely going to depend on grip/hand size, how well you master recoil, and how good your eyes & aim are. In terms of barrel length, that alone won't make a firearm more accurate... but a gun with iron sights that has a larger distance between front and rear sight, might make YOU more accurate with that gun.

You should probably clarify which kind of "accuracy" you are looking for, before the discussion can make much meaningful headway here.
Thanks for all of the information; I appreciate it. I am mostly wanting to obtain accurate handguns so I can give one to each kid later (probably when I am not around anymore). Right now I do occasional shooting at a range for fun, and our kids will probably do the same.
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  #134  
Old 05-24-2018, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodworker2 View Post
If you are looking for accuracy, I suggest you start by shooting, a lot. If you can make time to shoot every week, your shot pattern will tighten in short order.

I have "several" pistols to choose from, but I find that my usual choice is either a Les Baer Premier II .45 (1 1/2" at 50 yards guarantee), a CZ Tactical Sport (in either 9 mm or 40 S&W), and either a Glock 34 or 35 (even better are the 17L, a 24, or even a 41).

A few comments on CZ 75 TS:
1. The trigger is WONDERFUL straight out of the box. Guess about 2 lb pull. If you can find wonder at a dealer, try pulling the trigger with your eyes closed.
2. The corners of the rear sight are a bit sharp; rounding the corners with a stone or replacing the sight would help.
3. There is some aftermarket support, to finding better parts is not very hard.

Comments on Glock:
1. OK trigger, that is easily replaced or improved.
2. Probably already comes with an extended slide release.
3. There are all sorts of aftermarket parts available.

Comments on Les Baer.
1. If I had to sell all of my 1911s, and keep only one, I would choose the Les Baer.
2. My first clover leaf was with the Les Baer; nearly two shots through the same hole!
3. Even after 2,000 rounds, this gun is still very tight.

Another Brand to look into, in the Used Marketplace, are the EAA or Tanfoglio line of pistols.
1. The factory has caliber conversion kits. It takes under a minute to convert to .22lr, 9x19 mm, 38 super, 9x21 mm, 40 S&W, 10 MM, .41 AE, .45 ACP, and a few others.
2. Factory and aftermarket support is very good.
3. The Tanfoglio Xtreme line of pistols comes from the factory with a trigger job and custom parts. (My daughter's favorite is a 9 mm long slide (6"), it is hard to get my pistol back from being "borrowed".
Thank you for taking the time to provide all of this useful information; I really appreciate it. Will check out the guns you mentioned, too.
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  #135  
Old 05-24-2018, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmk20398 View Post
If you are in SoCal, at least I know RifleGear or 2A zone can do this (No-Mag sales / DROS with your own mag).
I did SP-01 no mag + Mec-Gar 10 round mag, CZ75TS 40SW + GunMagwarehouse 10 round mag.
Yes we will still do this
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  #136  
Old 05-24-2018, 10:48 PM
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Easily a CZ75 variant. No questions.

There are trade offs with polymer pistols that some people like to avoid realizing.
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  #137  
Old 05-24-2018, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoMustang View Post
Thanks for all of the information; I appreciate it. I am mostly wanting to obtain accurate handguns so I can give one to each kid later (probably when I am not around anymore). Right now I do occasional shooting at a range for fun, and our kids will probably do the same.
If this is for kids (or anyone, really) to just target shoot for fun, a Ruger Mark 1, 2, 3 or 4 would make an excellent choice especially with a bull barrel and improved aftermarket sights... using match pistol ammo. They should be able to develop very good marksmanship and have lots of fun, fairly inexpensively.

ETA- i just checked the handgun roster and sadly this model is not for sale in CA. If you can find a used one still in the state... but that may take some time and looking.
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  #138  
Old 05-24-2018, 11:10 PM
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Springfield Loaded 9mm Target, CZ SP-01, Glock 34?
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  #139  
Old 05-24-2018, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Den60 View Post
The gun will be more accurate than the user.
This. Especially handguns.
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  #140  
Old 05-25-2018, 9:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
If this is for kids (or anyone, really) to just target shoot for fun, a Ruger Mark 1, 2, 3 or 4 would make an excellent choice especially with a bull barrel and improved aftermarket sights... using match pistol ammo. They should be able to develop very good marksmanship and have lots of fun, fairly inexpensively.

ETA- i just checked the handgun roster and sadly this model is not for sale in CA. If you can find a used one still in the state... but that may take some time and looking.
Thanks for the information; I appreciate it and will check them out.
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  #141  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:14 PM
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Hk usp expert 9mm
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  #142  
Old 05-26-2018, 4:54 AM
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Glock of any type.
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  #143  
Old 05-26-2018, 9:14 PM
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I have heard great things about both the HK and the Glock; in fact my brother owns a Glock, and likes it quite a bit. Thanks for the feedback.
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  #144  
Old 05-27-2018, 2:26 AM
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Never heard of anyone doing this before. Have you worked with a specific LGS? or have a thread about this?
Mine is this way. I wasn't practically targeting this, it just happened I bought her from Gun World in Burbank. During the transferring sales person told me that it comes with only one magazine, which trigger some sort of concern, but I still decided to get it. Then I called to CZ and I got 2 different points, one of them was it should be 3 magazines in the box, and second-it is not Cali version (by s/n) and might be only mag LGS will provide. I got so pissed off on CZ and LGS, finally I made CZ send me 2 mags for free and LGS to recover my "loses" by ammo. After I picked up gun from LGS, I found sticker on the box-it is non CA version.
From y stash, I am pretty much the same with SA 9mm Loaded Target and CZ 75 TS. I have changes front sight on both of them to Dawson FO.
One weird thing, out of my 45s, I am more accurate with DW Commander Classic than with DW PM7 or P220. This is for sure about me. I have asked other, way more proficient shooters to try all of my 45s, and PM7 is one hole gun with no doubt.

Last edited by Palmaris; 05-27-2018 at 2:33 AM..
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  #145  
Old 05-30-2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Palmaris View Post
Mine is this way. I wasn't practically targeting this, it just happened I bought her from Gun World in Burbank. During the transferring sales person told me that it comes with only one magazine, which trigger some sort of concern, but I still decided to get it. Then I called to CZ and I got 2 different points, one of them was it should be 3 magazines in the box, and second-it is not Cali version (by s/n) and might be only mag LGS will provide. I got so pissed off on CZ and LGS, finally I made CZ send me 2 mags for free and LGS to recover my "loses" by ammo. After I picked up gun from LGS, I found sticker on the box-it is non CA version.
From y stash, I am pretty much the same with SA 9mm Loaded Target and CZ 75 TS. I have changes front sight on both of them to Dawson FO.
One weird thing, out of my 45s, I am more accurate with DW Commander Classic than with DW PM7 or P220. This is for sure about me. I have asked other, way more proficient shooters to try all of my 45s, and PM7 is one hole gun with no doubt.
Gun World has a ton of guns in their store; great selection to choose from. Glad to see that CZ took care of you.
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  #146  
Old 05-31-2018, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bodh1 View Post
Easily a CZ75 variant. No questions.

There are trade offs with polymer pistols that some people like to avoid realizing.


Do you mean as in like.. follow-up shots? Im not sure how a polymer frame would affect a slide/barrel accuracy any other way.

I vote the beretta or SP-01


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  #147  
Old 05-31-2018, 5:27 PM
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My votes with a CZ or Sig. I own several of each and they all shoot.
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  #148  
Old 05-31-2018, 6:17 PM
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I have heard or read good things about the 92FS. Thanks for your input; I appreciate it.
unless the slide cracks in half
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  #149  
Old 06-07-2018, 9:27 PM
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unless the slide cracks in half
That would suck; does it happen very often? I have not heard of it happening, but also don't know many people with that gun either.
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  #150  
Old 06-08-2018, 3:43 AM
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Keep the 1911 and handload some soft 45s for your daughter. Thank me later
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  #151  
Old 06-08-2018, 4:18 AM
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Hi guys,
I have been thinking of selling my 1911 and then taking the money I get from that to buy a very accurate 9mm handgun, but before doing so I wanted to get others opinions on what they think would be the most accurate 9mm handgun. I would prefer to get one with a 5 inch barrel, thinking that the longer it is, the more accurate it will be, but am not married to the idea that it must be 5 inches long (provided it is very accurate). What are your thoughts, or what has your experience taught you, that I can learn from?
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  #152  
Old 06-08-2018, 7:27 AM
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Indian OP not the arrow. Good luck.
If the arrow is bent slightly it is not going to work as well. If the margin of error is 3 MOA for the Indian and 6 MOA for one gun vs 1 MOA for another gun then the Indian will shoot the 1 MOA gun much better.
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  #153  
Old 06-08-2018, 7:34 AM
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If the arrow is bent slightly it is not going to work as well. If the margin of error is 3 MOA for the Indian and 6 MOA for one gun vs 1 MOA for another gun then the Indian will shoot the 1 MOA gun much better.
If the Indian is bent slightly it won't matter.
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  #154  
Old 06-08-2018, 9:46 AM
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unless the slide cracks in half
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  #155  
Old 06-08-2018, 11:58 AM
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OMG!!! That's just gnarly looking! Hope the shooter was OK.

Wonder how the heck this could've happened??
-p
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  #156  
Old 06-08-2018, 12:06 PM
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OMG!!! That's just gnarly looking! Hope the shooter was OK.

Wonder how the heck this could've happened??
-p
Well apparently the gun was ANCIENT... I think it was made in 1911 they said.
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  #157  
Old 06-08-2018, 12:19 PM
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OMG!!! That's just gnarly looking! Hope the shooter was OK.

Wonder how the heck this could've happened??
-p
Brownells posted this on their IG... I didn't even know where it was from but did some research...

Nighthawk 1911 chambered in 10mm no one was hurt. He just should have bought something one millimeter less and a decent brand.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ighthawk-1911/
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  #158  
Old 06-08-2018, 12:52 PM
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Sig P228 - I feel like I'm cheating when I use that gun. The ergonomics and stock trigger just work with my hands.
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Old 06-08-2018, 1:42 PM
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You want a pistol that shoots far better than you do? The answer is a Sig X5.
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Old 06-08-2018, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joejitsu View Post
https://youtu.be/HIwVK_FxGZk

Jerry Musilek shoots a snubnose revolver upside down with his pinky on target 200 yards away.

But on the other hand, he's the best shot that ever lived
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