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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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1906 American Eagle Stoeger Luger
I am working on a pistol project with my father in law. I mentioned that I am getting into older collectible guns and he showed me his Luger that he got from his uncle (owned a bar) who passed away a while ago. It was acquired during WW2 when a GI paid his bar tab with the Luger. There was a military training base not far and this was back in World War II. At first, I thought it was an army issue Luger with the american eagle, yet now believe it was the imported Luger. I also noted the DWM factory stamp.
I did some preliminary research and think it is a 1906 American Eagle. It has the markings and is in 9mm. The magazinep has a wooden handle at the end of it and the grips are wooden. It seems to be in nice shape (for an old gun). It is one nicely balanced pistol. I love the way a Luger goes up with the slide. I really want to shoot it. (it feels as balanced as a SIG P226 and has a nice weight to it with the metal frame.) I also want to help my father in law preserve the pistol and clean it appropriately. I am wondering if it was re-blued if the value would drop. I was looking at prices and they were all over the map and not sure if restoration is a good idea. If anyone has any knowledge of this pistol and what is the right way to preserve or possibly restore, that would be great. In the short run, I just want to field strip it and clean it, take to the range, yet some of the valuations I saw may give me pause. Makes me motivated to get a 1911 45 in the WWII era for myself. IMG_0131.JPG IMG_0133.JPG IMG_0127.JPG |
#2
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Lugers are a great pistol. The engineering and machine work is great considering how old it is and machining was done by manual machines.
I would not recommending a re-blue if you are looking to retain value or as a historical piece. Have a gunsmith check it out. If it has been shot before then use it and have fun. The one downside of the luger are that the sights suck but still is a fun pistol to shoot with great ergonomics. |
#3
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No restoration necessary, that would devalue this rare piece, it's a less common early model with the dished out toggle handle and the grip safety, American Eagle markings.
a highly collectable model, I wouldnt even risk firing it. *are you sure it's a 9mm Luger? they were mostly .30 Luger , and use the same magazines on both models Last edited by omega; 04-28-2017 at 6:40 AM.. |
#5
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9mm Luger
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after WW1 they could only export them in .30 Luger because The Treaty of Versailles was the most important of the peace treaties that brought World War I to an end. The Treaty ended the state of war between Germany and the Allied Powers. your early import in 9mm is a rare find |
#6
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DO NOT REFINISH OR "RESTORE"
You will reduce the value by at least half. How do you know it is 9mm? Here is a quick way to test: get a pencil and insert in into the barrel. If it is tight it is .30 Luger. If it is loose it is 9mm Luger. You said it is a Stoeger Luger. Does it actually say Stoeger on it? The best thing to do is take more and better pictures, join this forum http://forum.lugerforum.com/ , post your pictures and they will tell you what you have.
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Revolvers are not pistols Quote:
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Definitely will not recommend refinishing. Wasn't sure if guns are like classic cars as far as survivors, but that makes great sense. It has german markings and around a 4000 serial number Last edited by Mopar Guy; 04-28-2017 at 8:29 AM.. |
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Two things: It's most definitely NOT a Stoeger. It was made by DWM. Stoeger didn't get into the Luger reproduction business until 60 some years after this was made.
Secondly, 7.65mm Luger and 9mm Luger are NOT the same caliber and are not interchangeable.
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"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends upon the character of the user." - Theodore Roosevelt |
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The best thing to do is take more and better pictures, join this forum http://forum.lugerforum.com/ , post your pictures and they will tell you what you have.[/QUOTE]
Awesome...This is perfect...thank you! |
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Its valuable and be careful with it because you do have a "grail gun". Take it to experts and post it on "Luger" websites. You really do not want a shade tree bubba to give you poor advice. |
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Good lord what a find. I would NOT restore and I would likely not fire it either. That is a helluva find.
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PIMP stands for Positive Intellectual Motivated Person When pimping begins, friendship ends. Don't let your history be a mystery |
#15
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If you're in northern CA a visit to Krausewerks in San Mateo would give you a boatload of information on the pistol. The owner is rather well known in the Luger community and a wealth of knowledge on all things Luger. If you're interested in learning about, buying older guns it's a great place to visit, so long as you're not allergic to having an empty wallet. |
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If you're in northern CA a visit to Krausewerks in San Mateo would give you a boatload of information on the pistol. The owner is rather well known in the Luger community and a wealth of knowledge on all things Luger.
If you're interested in learning about, buying older guns it's a great place to visit, so long as you're not allergic to having an empty wallet. [/QUOTE] Actually San Mateo is not far from my father in law. He is out in Redwood Shores area. He is in is 80's and think he will be happy to know he has a somewhat unique Luger. I always thought 9mm was common since the 9×19mm Parabellum was basically named after the Pistol. This is sort of something he will enjoy. He likes the Antique Road show on PBS and the pistol has family history. It will be interesting to see the valuations, yet probably more interesting to find out about the Luger and it's history. What gun has a round named after it? It is a cool looking gun and fits nice in the hand. |
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Krausewerk's is right off 92 & El Camino Real - intersection of 21st and ECR. Overall the 9mm is the most common Luger chambering but some variations, such as yours, are more commonly found in 30 Luger. Simpsons LTD is an excellent on line seller, note all the 30 cal 1906 Lugers and a very few 9mm: http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179_190 |
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Krausewerk's is right off 92 & El Camino Real - intersection of 21st and ECR.
Really? 21st and ECR. I know of the gun store sort of by Redwood CIty and Belmont. I know that area well. My dad grew up in the hills of San Mateo over by Alameda De Las Pulgas. Side note, my father in law's neighbor was from Germany and I would buy their used porsche when they would get new ones. Wow, serious pride in the German products. He would say it is a crime in Germany to use any subpar metals, he was an "old school" German and would refer to the "fatherland". |
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^^^THAT^^^ The only Stoeger Lugers were semi Luger repros made in 22 LR between 1969 and 1985. And they were crap. At least the one I has was. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoeger_Luger That is an original DWM Commercial "Unicorn" pistol. |
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A.F. Stoeger, Inc. was an importer of Lugers in the 1920s. They were commercial imports that had the American Eagle stamped above the chamber. That's why I asked if it was marked Stoeger. More info at http://www.landofborchardt.com/stoeger.html
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Revolvers are not pistols Quote:
ExitCalifornia.org Last edited by Milsurp Collector; 04-29-2017 at 1:04 AM.. |
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My Bad........I was thinking "MANUFACTURED" by Stoeger. Not IMPORTED by them.
From the link. Quote:
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#23
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Hmmm - why do you think it's a 1906 A/E? Appears to be a 1902 A/E. A 1902 would have the dished-style toggle-knobs and they were chambered for 9mm. That was the first thing I noticed, is that the toggles are wrong for a 1906 A/E. (That's if you are sure it's a 9mm barrel - looks kind of thin in the photo, and these were often called "fat" barreled Lugers because the 9mm looks fat compared to the 7.65mm, which the barrel in your photos doesn't have that appearance. ) A 7.65mm with dished toggles would indicate it being a 1900 A/E, which would make sense as that barrel looks a bit narrow and longer than 4" - where the 1900 were only made in 7.65 and had 4-3/4" barrels. 1902 Serial number range was 22300 - 22400 and then 22900 - 23500. A 1902 A/E would actually be more rare than a 1906 A/E. For the 1902 A/E: Only about 600 - 700 made. 1902 American Eagle Lugers should have: 1) 1902's had a 4" 9mm barrel - ONLY. 2) Made by DWM 3) US Eagle above the chamber 4) The 1902 frame has the narrow trigger and WIDE trigger guard which YOURS appears to have and should be marked "Made in Germany" or just "Germany" on it. 5) Serrated thumb safety. 6) 1902s have the early type extractor - UNMARKED (they don't say loaded on them). 7) Front sight should be a dorsal-fin style blade; yours appears to be a flat blade sight which could also indicate a barrel change - but your photos aren't very good in that area or some numb-nuts could have filed down the sight - but can't tell from your photos). Barrel should be 4" if the 9mm - can't tell from the photos, but measure from the chamber - if more than 4" it's a replacement barrel. If not in 9mm, it's possibly a 1900 A/E. 1906 American Eagle Lugers should have: 1) Should have late, flat, checkered style toggle knobs. (NO - YOURS HAS DISHED STYLE TOGGLES - MORE REMINISCENT OF THE 1900/1902 STYLE LUGERS). I have never seen a 1906-A/E with dished toggles. It's highly unlikely any 1906 models used early 1900/1902 type toggles in leaving the DWM factory. This is not a rare anomaly either, or transition gun, as that all occurred by 1903. 2) Made by DWM 3) Grip safety 4) US Eagle above the chamber 5) Lowest position on the thumb-safety polished bright (not blued). (Can't tell from your photos because it's in the down position for both pics.) 6) Extractor should be the late type and marked "Loaded" on the left side. ( (Can't tell from your photos). 7) Front sight should be a dorsal-fin style blade; yours appears to be a flat blade sight which could also indicate a barrel change - but your photos aren't very good in that area or some numb-nuts could have filed down the sight - but can't tell from your photos). 8) Also, the trigger guard looks wrong in the photo; it should be the wide trigger and narrow trigger guard looks more like that of a 1902; yours looks to have exactly the opposite meaning the frame could be from a different model or is a 1902 A/E. 1906 American Eagle Lugers were made in approximate following numbers:
Serial number range is from 25500 to 69000 - full serial number locations are found on the bottom of the barrel, and on the front of the frame, while only the last 2 digits appear on the following: on the breechblock (lower left side), on the extractor (bottom), front toggle link, receiver (rear) side plate on the bottom edge, takedown lever, trigger (top left), on the grip safety (under grip) and on the grips (inside). CAN'T SEE ANY SERIAL NUMBERS IN YOUR PHOTOS - DID YOU PHOTO-SHOP THEM OUT? We need better photos, the photos that are posted show condition-wise of the bluing and straw colors are sparse. If it's a parts gun 1906 A/E, that would put it at about $1,000 to $1,300: even if all the parts were correct and serial-number matching for a 1906, which it doesn't appear to be, it's only $1,800 to $2,200 in that condition judging by the photos you have alone. However, if it's a 1902 A/E in the condition shown, matching numbers, value could range from $3,800 to $5,000. While the barrel looks as if it's same age/bluing wear as the gun, that needs to be verified - it could possibly re-barreled commercial sell of an American Eagle from 7.65mm to 9mm. ALSO: Luger prices have also come down as older-timer collectors are dying off and their guns are now coming back onto the open market in droves. But judging by your photos, I'm leaning toward this actually being a 1902 American Eagle if indeed that is a 9mm 4" barrel.
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Last edited by The Gleam; 04-29-2017 at 4:50 PM.. |
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#25
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I am sure these are pretty bad pics...some additional ones I took when I was looking at it. Think it has to do with format. Not good with the iphone
[IMG_0134 (1).JPG IMG_0136.JPG IMG_0137.JPG IMG_0143.JPG[/ATTACH][/ATTACH][/ATTACH] |
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In any case (haha), note that the case on a 9X19mm and .30 Luger are the same diameter as the 9mm was based on opening up the case-mouth of the .30 Luger. So .30 Luger magazines look exactly like 9mm magazines in dimensions, with the feed-lips bent in or tighter angled. There are even some Luger magazines marked 9mm on the bottom, being used in guns chambered for .30 Luger, that improperly invite the owner to think the gun is chambered in 9mm, but is not. 9mm magazines can often be used guns that had .30 Luger counterparts - do it all the time, particularly with some Browning Hi-Powers I have chambered in .30 Luger. However, you should take a better photo of the US Eagle itself. It looks a little rough in the one photo, cartoonish even - not as tight and subtle as you typically see on A/Es - and hater to say it, but there were some jackasses in the 1990s fabricating fake A/Es enough to be cautious when the ID'ed details don't match the serial number.
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#32
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__________________
NRA LIFE (1974) Psalm 46:10 I had a commission/USNR from 71-77 but never consider myself a Vet MyDad+4uncles/USMC/WW2/Korea/Vietnam. My Grandfather US Army WW1. No heroes,just regular folks--they were Veterans. “Do not be deceived.God is not mocked. You will reap what you sow.” |
#33
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I actual looked at it. Serial number is 7581...it is on the barrel. Front sight is a dorsal fin. Pic is bad. I did the pencil test and is loose. No Germany markings. I was mistaken on that. Stamping of the eagle looks pretty authentic from a visual. the 81 of the serial number is on diifrent parts of the gun. I am guessing a 4 or 41/2 barrel
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"A 1900 American Eagle Military." 1) It has the dished-style toggle knobs. 2) US Eagle 3) Checkered safety lever 4) Wide trigger guard and narrow trigger, 5) Unmarked extractor, 6) Serial numbers from 6100 - 7200-7300 7) Frames are NOT marked "Germany" or "Made in Germany" 8) DWM marked 9) BUT - all had a 4-3/4th inch .30 Luger barrel - none in 9mm. This model is also quote rare; if you can clear up the 9mm chambering issue, it's the only thing that contradicts this model. Serial number data is never fully accurate for most any make/model of gun pre 1980s, and any given run of gun always reveals serial number surprises or anomalies, however to be 280 higher than the known serial run is not a deal-breaker to identify it - but that 9mm barrel would be. BECAUSE - it could have been an arsenal reworked and re-purposed "1900 American Eagle Military" at some later time; meant for the US but an example that never made it the first time around for the first hoped-for contract, and was reintroduced and built during the 1906 American Eagle run from a frame and parts left-over from the 1900 run that did not get made, as the contract was not fulfilled having lost to Colt. If my last paragraph noting such a scenario could arise, you would have a gun even more rare than originally thought for any of the previous possibilities originally contemplated above. I can't think of any likely scenario other than that to match all the contradictions yours is exhibiting. I can think of no other American Eagle Luger that would not have the "Germany" marks other than a frame from a "1900 American Eagle Military."
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Last edited by The Gleam; 04-30-2017 at 10:20 PM.. |
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Tag for coolness
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#38
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I was looking up the American Eagle 1900 and now think it may have been a US army test gun. Very sure a 9mm but would need to confirm. Was told it was used decades ago and shot 9mm. Father in law shot it as a kid in Idaho in the late 1940s then sat in storage. Was reading the military had about 50 9mm with the 3rd Calvery for testing. From my understanding, it was acquired from some one in the military in the 1940s. The gun looks like the internet examples for the American eagle 1900 military. Serial number is interesting. Maybe a late order? Looks like time to investigate and trace. That would be very cool if it actually was. Lots of documentation would be needed:
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The gun also came with a holster. I am looking at pictures on the net and think the holster is the same as the Calvary holster but is missing the large cover that has US..I may be wrong that this gun is one of their 9mm but you never know
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#40
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I am literally seething with jealousy. I would trade my entire Glock stash for that beauty.
__________________
PIMP stands for Positive Intellectual Motivated Person When pimping begins, friendship ends. Don't let your history be a mystery |
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