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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#41
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The political reality is simple. Bring your/the best "libertarian" candidate to the GOP. and we have a real chance to reclaim the WH and prevent more erosion of the 2A as well as all of the constitution. Continue to run a 3rd party guy and socialism will prevail. Year in, year out. Just like our failing financial situation. It's just math. |
#42
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Conservatives will vote for libertarians if they run in a party that can actually win an election. Think about that. Vote out the harmful republicans. |
#44
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I'll close tonight with this.
No 2A.... no other A's. At this time in history, we truly need to be one issue voters. Why is CDF missing from this discussion? |
#45
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But the bath water is pretty damn fetid at this point.... and compromise has just bought us 16.7 trillion worth of it of it (not counting the unfunded liabilities) I think the only play we have left is to take a principled stand. |
#46
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Don't compromise! Get a libertarian minded person elected! (Hint) run them as republicans! Instant 40% support!!!!!!!!!! |
#47
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With lip service, similar to far left democrats.
__________________
Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#49
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Definition of insanity?
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#50
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Agreed. But the Republican party needs to wake up and shift the way they do business. I would love it if Rand run as R in 2016. But if the RNC shows the same BS, don't be surprised if you get the same result. |
#51
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I disagree. If we count all the people who are philosophical libertarians I think they would make a majority. It is the fear of becoming irrelevant in a two party system that keeps people from registering Libertarian. That and the facts that their primaries are not all that exciting and some of their candidates are just so dam intelligent they have trouble connecting well with other people.
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#52
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We need a United 2A candidate. |
#53
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Again, it's math. We need to unite. |
#54
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As an example, all of my friends and I were happy to vote the GOP ticket as a pragmatic choice. When we saw what happened at RNC, every man jack of us voted Bill Richardson. If Ron Paul lost the nomination (as he would have, I had no illusion Paul was to be nominated) fair and square, GOP would have had the Libertarians behind them. By playing dirty politics, GOP became the very thing Libertarians stand against. |
#55
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Politics sucks but its not going away. So, if Rand and those like him are elected and elevated we have a chance to keep 2A in tact. Nothing else matters IMO. What's the best way to do that? Splinter or unite? |
#56
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Libertarians want Republicans to support a Libertarian candidate, but they won't because the Republican party is, at it's core, an authoritarian party, they want to tell people what to do, when to do it and who they can do it with, and a lot of that comes from being joined at the hip with the Religious Right. But the end result is that since a Libertarian candidate will not support many of the core Republican ideas they will not get a real seat at the table or even a fair hearing(see what happened to Paul in the 2012 convention). Republicans want Libertarians to hold their nose and vote Republican because we agree with a few points of the Republican platform(and not nearly as many as people think), and want us to ignore that the vast majority of said platform is absolutely repugnant to us. In a lot of cases, particularly in states where a few votes matters we do hold our nose and vote Republican when they are the lesser of two evils(and that is not always the case, and make no mistake we do view them as an evil), but in states like California we generally see no reason to since the election here was a forgone conclusion. The only argument in a state like California to vote for the lesser evil is as a symbolic show of support, but since we generally don't support the Republican platform most of us see no reason to show symbolic support for things we do not in fact support, so all the "we must be united even when it won't matter" lines tend to fall on deaf ears. Honestly, I don't see Libertarians ever rejoining the flock of the GOP as it stands now, and without major structural changes the GOP will not become Libertarian enough to entice very many Libertarians back. It really comes down to a fundamental difference in how we view the world compared to Republicans/Democrats. A mainline Republican sees something he doesn't like, he asks "is there a good reason should I allow this to happen" A Libertarian sees something he doesn't like, he asks "is there a good reason I should not allow this to happen" It seems subtle written down, but it really represents a 180 degree shift in world view.
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Yes, I am an electrical engineer. No, I will not fix your computer. Last edited by robcoe; 03-13-2013 at 9:43 AM.. |
#57
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All this talk about the whole RNC fiasco reminds me.... I need to update my voter registration...
I have zero intention of being counted among the loyal rank and file. I held my nose and registered in 2008 and 2012 so I could try to help reform the Republicans, get Paul into the debates, try to get him a speaking role at the convention etc. It would take one helluva candidate in the primaries to get me to register R again. Generic Assclown A is not going to get me into the voting booth for the Red team. |
#58
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voted libertarian this past election but now feel I just gave vote to the gun grabbers by taking away a republican vote. I'm pretty sure they didnt even get 5% of the total votes. I truly wish I could see a 3rd party candidate get elected in my life time.
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NRA Endowment Member |
#59
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To a large extent 'Liberal' now means Socialists, not personal freedom. And to a large extent 'Conservative' now means religious extremists not economic freedom. Romney didn't lose because of his Economic Freedom policies. He lost because too many religious extremists spouted off about their religious and moral issues and their need to impose their beliefs on others. Obama didn't win because of this personal freedom policies. He won due to his Socialist Distribute the Wealth policies. |
#60
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#61
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What I'm curious about is if the Libertarian party believes in having the 2A enforced upon the states through incorporation of the 14thA? I've heard many who believe the states could outright ban arms because they believe in the Slaughterhouse interpretation of the P or I clause.
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#62
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L that votes R (most of the time). It would seem like we have a better chance of turing the GOP L than winning as L's on their own. I also think that if the GOP goes L on some major issues, they could clean up. I still refuse to believe that most Americans support euro style big activist government liberalism. We have the stupid party and the evil party. Going L would leave the GOP a little smarter, and democrats... in the same postion, espcially without a 'celebrity' president to run. |
#63
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If Libertarians continue to vote GOP because they are the lesser of 2 evils, the GOP has no reason to change. The GOP believes in fiscal liberty, but they don't believe in personal Liberty anymore than the Dems do. Nanny state vs. Theocracy is a lose-lose in my book.
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#64
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My fear is, by the time 'our' collective sides get their **** togther, it will be to late. |
#65
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They get around the 2A by supporting it, then taking away your gun along with the REST of your property?
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"What is a moderate interpretation of the text? Halfway between what it really means and what you'd like it to mean?" -Antonin Scalia, Supreme Court Justice "Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety. I like my guns like the left likes their voters-"undocumented". |
#66
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"What is a moderate interpretation of the text? Halfway between what it really means and what you'd like it to mean?" -Antonin Scalia, Supreme Court Justice "Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety. I like my guns like the left likes their voters-"undocumented". |
#67
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I consider myself sort of libertarian but not part of the Libertarian Party as they are too cozy with the GOP. A bad government cannot be fixed by using government to fix itself. I guess I am more anarchy-capitalist than libertarian as I want total liberty not regulated liberty dished out by the same government that I reject.
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#68
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My biggest fear is that we lose one of the Heller 5, so I will do nothing that would help a Dem get elected. My firm belief is once we lose the 2A then whatever liberties we have left are soon to follow.
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There's no such thing as a former Marine. - General James F. Amos, 35th Commandant of the Marine Corps Romans 1:16 - 32 Last edited by vonderplatz; 03-13-2013 at 10:00 AM.. |
#69
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#70
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And those who say 3rd party will never get enough momentum to affect the outcome need only to look at UKIP and the recent Eastleigh by-election. UK is also dominated by Labour vs. Conservative. But since both party sold out to the Eurocrats and are socialistic in philosophy, UKIP is the only sensible choice left. And in the recent election, they got 28% of the vote. More than enough to threaten Cameron's coalition. UKIP's fight against the EU is philosophically much like our fight for 2A. |
#71
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After this past election, I switched party registration to Libertarian from Republican. Im disgusted with them and their failures, and also their reluctance to get with the times on social issues. If a lot more people registered and voting democrat and republican looked at their stances on issues vs their party as a whole, a lot more would be Libertarian.
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#72
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if your registered political "alliance" was determined by a survey instead of a box you check, the landscape would be much different.
or CA could be like some other states and not require you to register for a certain party in order to vote in their primaries |
#73
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We pick up a few more members every day. We are the third largest, and fastest growing politicial party in the U.S. Some of our new members are frustrated Democrats, while others are fed-up Republicans. Either way, we're glad to have you with us. The best thing you can do, at this point, is spread the word. "Like" the Libertarian party on Facebook (if you're on Facebook) and comment on some of their graphics (there are some good ones). Also, check on Meetup.com for Libertarian meetups in your area. In So Cal, there is a South Bay Libertarian group, a Libertarian cigar club, and a Libertarian Shooting club. It's nice to get together with like-minded individuals. |
#74
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I was confused about what to consider myself a few years ago. Preserving the Constitution as it was written has always been my base and I heard a speech by some guy named Ron Paul that was "Libertarian" and was like WOW someone speaking common sense. Looked into Libertarian and was glad to put a name to my philosophy of freedom.
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War is mostly waiting. |
#75
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Religious extremists are a very small percentage of conservatives, but every time one of the jerk wads sticks his foot in his mouth the socialist MSM makes sure everyone in the world hears about it a dozen times! There are more small L libertarians in the republican party than there are religious extremists. The R's need to realize they need us and give the libertarian branch of the tree more respect. If they do not the whole country will soon resemble CA.
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Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) Last edited by Meplat; 03-13-2013 at 3:49 PM.. |
#76
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You have not heard any libertarians say that. If someone self identifying as a libertarian tells you that, he is either lying or confused about being a libertarian. It is now fashionable, especially in Hollywood, to call yourself a libertarian even when you have no clue what it means.
__________________
Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#77
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^^^^^
THIS!
__________________
Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#78
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This is all academic anyway; it's already too late. No way are we going to pull out of our economic death spiral.
__________________
Take not lightly liberty To have it you must live it And like love, don't you see To keep it you must give it "I will talk with you no more. I will go now, and fight you." (Red Cloud) |
#79
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I am registered Libertarian, for a few reasons. I go along with the "leave me be" stance for the most part. in many ways, yeah, I am quite liberal in my views. sadly, "liberal" has quite some negative connotations to it. but in some cases I am conservative as well. of course, conservatives are not the most popular regarding social issues. I fully support 2A, along with the rest of the Constitution.
for a number of years I was actually registered socialist. not that I agreed with any of it. but I was sick and tired of all the BS of the two major parties, and didnt want to be associated with either one. then I learned about the Libertarian party, and it sure seemed to fit with me. I can still not be a part of the two majors, vote as I want, and help send a message. I think the more people who vote outside of the two majors, the more it helps reinforce that we dont like to be lumped to one side or the other. |
#80
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Okay look, If you want to have and keep your guns, DON'T VOTE DEM. Period.
Libertarians belive in shinking the goverment to just its bare bones, just enough to be able to make this country function. Ron Paul was a libertarian. He was running as a Rep. but he was way to far to the right to be a Republican. Santorum was a Republican, Romney was more of an Independent than anything else. I did not really want him to be Pres. but voted for him because he was less evil than the current dope, BO. Libertarians want to stay the hell out of the lives of the citizens. They want everyone to have equal rights whether you are the President, the speaker of the house, the mail man or the guy that begs for money outside of the gas station bathroom. Most Libertarians will vote for the GOP in the general election unless one of their one has made it that far. If a Libertarian made it to the general election and a Repubican did not, Repubicans will go with the Libertarian. Niether will ever go to the left because the don't want dopes like BO in office calling the shots a nd F'ing up the country like BO or Clinton did. Also Libertarians and Republicans all thrive to be like RR. Never give in to waht a Dem wants no matter what, there is always a catch. That has been prooven time after time thru out the last 300 years. |
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