Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 07-31-2014, 7:33 AM
Mitch's Avatar
Mitch Mitch is offline
Mostly Harmless
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Reno
Posts: 6,564
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
More so, who here isn't guilty of a few hundred felonies according to the State but hasn't been caught yet?
Me.

I have right here in this room about 30 firearms and the parts necessary to assemble all manner of assault weapon. I have never done so and will never do so, even with the doors locked.

The laws here suck, but honestly, it's not that hard to obey them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
This site doesn't need anyone preaching violence so I won't, but that is indeed what I'm an advocate for at this point.
So you are at the point where you want your own neighborhood to look like this:

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Getting called a DOJ shill has become a rite of passage around here. I've certainly been called that more than once - I've even seen Kes get called that. I haven't seen Red-O get called that yet, which is very suspicious to me, and means he's probably a DOJ shill.

Last edited by Mitch; 07-31-2014 at 7:36 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 07-31-2014, 7:49 AM
Artema's Avatar
Artema Artema is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

I can see why the anti-American politicians make these laws. Look at the in-fighting that it creates.
__________________
- SAAMI Pressure Specs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artema View Post
I'd go to the grocery store with polymer, and I'd go to war with steel.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 07-31-2014, 8:02 AM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 701
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default Stats on BB arrests/convictions

There's a lot of smart and informed people on this forum.
So, surely someone on here must know....

1. How many people in the state of CA have been charged with bullet button violations, for using bullet button workarounds such as Raddlock, Mag-Tool Oval, or Wonder Wrench?

2. Of those cases charged above, how many were convicted?

These would be PUBLIC records in CA. So, the information is out there.

You see, so far all I seem to hear on here is rumors, hearsay, innuendo, and stuff like "I heard about a guy..." stuff.

Thanks, R
~~~~~~




Quote:
Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
To posses one? No. To have one magnetically attached to the mag release? There is no gray area, flat out felony.
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 07-31-2014, 8:13 AM
johnyreb's Avatar
johnyreb johnyreb is offline
Hmmmm Hands
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chico-ish
Posts: 965
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
If you are truly at the "violence stage" why continue the debate? It should be past that point for you.

Unless, of course, you'd like *someone else* to resort to violence on your behalf...


Lol exactly
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 07-31-2014, 8:15 AM
bomb_on_bus's Avatar
bomb_on_bus bomb_on_bus is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bakersfield, CA Kern Co.
Posts: 5,482
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artema View Post
I can see why the anti-American politicians make these laws. Look at the in-fighting that it creates.
Sadly that's a lot of it right there. Just imagine how much easier we are making things for the antis.

A divided and fragmented enemy is a lot easier to conquer than a unified one IMO. I've seen this before in regards to betrayals from within. The most recent example I can recall was the lead ammo ban and the 2ndA organizations that supported it.
__________________

Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGTp View Post
So if you do ban me you will hear from my lawyer as to why you think you can violate peoples civil rights
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosinnagantm9130 View Post
Oh for ****s sake, now there are two of them.This is the type of **** anti's point to when they want to make us all look crazy.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 07-31-2014, 8:21 AM
omgwtfbbq's Avatar
omgwtfbbq omgwtfbbq is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North Sac Valley
Posts: 3,089
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

"SuperTool" seems to be living up to his name.

I don't think trying to educate others so have them avoid being caught up in a criminal investigation is a bad thing.

I get some people (barrage) are upset with Bill over this body of work, but I still think it's hard to argue against the idea of education as a weapon against government oppression.

More felons for BS gun laws means less people in the pool of law-abiding gun owners showing opposition against those laws. It's not neccesarily right, but once someone has is a felon, people aren't going to care what they were convicted for or, they will only say, "You're opinion doesn't matter because your a criminal."
__________________
CERTIFIED GLOCK ARMORER

"Far and away the best prize life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorris7556 View Post
They teach you secret stuff I can't mention on line.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 07-31-2014, 8:23 AM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 701
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default conflicted...

I will admit to being very "conflicted" about Bill.
On one hand, I concede that he seems to me to be a very informed and experienced person in 2nd Amendment matters.

On the other hand....he seems to be a bit of a worrywart.

There is a real difference between being concerned about what COULD happen, and what is LIKELY to happen.

If all of us worried as much about car accidents, as Bill worries about some of our nanny-state laws, we'd all just lock our car keys up in the safe, and never leave the house again.
~~~~~~


Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
I agree. In the spirit of honesty though, I swear I didn't make the first response with the intention to troll. I just don't like Bill because he represents what I perceive as a Loyalist to the State for continuing to bend over backwards in an effort to acquiesce to illegal laws instead of standing in defiance to them.
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 07-31-2014, 8:36 AM
Wiz-of-Awd's Avatar
Wiz-of-Awd Wiz-of-Awd is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where I'm at ;)
Posts: 3,558
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
If all of us worried as much about car accidents, as Bill worries about some of our nanny-state laws, we'd all just lock our car keys up in the safe, and never leave the house again.
~~~~~~
Here's your problem...

Car accidents generally lead only to a headache or two and dealing with insurance to sort out payment/s and other related issues.

Nanny state laws regarding firearms can very easily lead to jail, financial ruin, and destroying someones life.

All things in life have some inherent risk. Some things; however, carry their own special weight with regard to law and JAIL TIME.

A.W.D.
__________________
Quote:
Seven. The answer is always seven.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 07-31-2014, 8:54 AM
five.five-six's Avatar
five.five-six five.five-six is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,277
iTrader: 58 / 100%
Default

The amount of stupid in this thread is just staggering. I don't know of anyone who has been arrested and charged with having a lightning link in California, why don't you fabricate one of those install it in your AR? Its just a gray area facepalm
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosdanger View Post
Dude give it up. The election is was months ago. Hillary is toast. Her political career is over.

Or do you just hate her so much you can't let go?
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 07-31-2014, 9:11 AM
MustangSteveGT MustangSteveGT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Redwood Country
Posts: 804
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

It's smart to advice people against getting caught with those in your CA AR15s. It's beyond the gray area, and into the illigal area when people have already been arrested for them and gone to court already.

By illigal I mean the observed documented use of in an AR15, not the purchase or possession of one uninserted into the bullet button. Get caught with it inserted as designed and left in the rifle and you get caught, your screwed. Same as the act of having anything else left in the bullet button hole to override the fixed magazine condition.

Case in point, the Cow Palace vendor who had AR rifles on display with these inserted. There's nothing gray area about it at this point.
__________________
NRA Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 07-31-2014, 9:30 AM
RobG's Avatar
RobG RobG is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Commiefornia
Posts: 4,447
iTrader: 93 / 100%
Default

While I appreciate Bill's passion, I say let it go. If people want to push the envelope of legality I say go for it. It is up to the individual to know what is and what is not legal and how much of their life they are willing to risk over a magnet.
__________________
*PSE Archery* *Gold Tip Arrows* *Riptide Code Red* *Magnus Broadheads* *Scott Release* *Archery Shack bowstrings* *Trophy Ridge bow sights* *Bee Stinger* *Vortex Optics* *EXO Mountain*
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 07-31-2014, 9:39 AM
johnyreb's Avatar
johnyreb johnyreb is offline
Hmmmm Hands
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chico-ish
Posts: 965
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobG View Post
While I appreciate Bill's passion, I say let it go. If people want to push the envelope of legality I say go for it. It is up to the individual to know what is and what is not legal and how much of their life they are willing to risk over a magnet.


Because pushing the envelope is what gave us gems like sb249

The 80% AR insanity has given us SB808


By all means keep on pushing that grey area here in CA, the antis need fresh ideas for bans....
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:40 AM
IVC's Avatar
IVC IVC is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Temecula
Posts: 12,963
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyreb View Post
The 80% AR insanity has given us SB808
Not a good argument.

What's the difference between not using 80% builds because they might get banned and not using 80% builds because they did get banned?

If there is a "right" that is taken away the moment it is exercised, I'd say let's put it on the books as illegal - it makes no practical difference since either way one cannot do it, but at least the courts can see the true picture when it all gets challenged...
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:47 AM
Tincon's Avatar
Tincon Tincon is offline
Mortuus Ergo Invictus
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,067
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobG View Post
While I appreciate Bill's passion, I say let it go. If people want to push the envelope of legality I say go for it. It is up to the individual to know what is and what is not legal and how much of their life they are willing to risk over a magnet.
That's the problem, they don't know. And if no one tells them otherwise, they will believe the BS from some vendor, use this crap out at the range, and go to prison.
__________________
My posts may contain general information related to the law, however, THEY ARE NOT LEGAL ADVICE AND I AM NOT A LAWYER. I recommend you consult a lawyer if you want legal advice. No attorney-client or confidential relationship exists or will be formed between myself and any other person on the basis of these posts. Pronouns I may use (such as "you" and "your") do NOT refer to any particular person under any circumstance.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:51 AM
Merc1138 Merc1138 is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,766
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tincon View Post
That's the problem, they don't know. And if no one tells them otherwise, they will believe the BS from some vendor, use this crap out at the range, and go to prison.
I don't understand how RobG could have seriously typed that statement, since he knows full well the amount of BS that comes out of gun shops and manufacturers regarding things that aren't even legal issues(gun X is better than gun Y, this manufacturers 9mm will get stopped by a leather jacket while this other company makes 9mm cartridges that will go through 10 cinderblock walls, hell we've still got shops in CA claiming that only top loading ARs are legal).
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 07-31-2014, 10:51 AM
johnyreb's Avatar
johnyreb johnyreb is offline
Hmmmm Hands
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chico-ish
Posts: 965
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
Not a good argument.

What's the difference between not using 80% builds because they might get banned and not using 80% builds because they did get banned?

If there is a "right" that is taken away the moment it is exercised, I'd say let's put it on the books as illegal - it makes no practical difference since either way one cannot do it, but at least the courts can see the true picture when it all gets challenged...
Using CNC shops to finish ARs was determined to be illegal federally...and yet people continued....watch the news much? Sacramento was ground zero for it.

It was pushed by people out to make a buck, and now it's over.

The fallout of that nonsense is SB808...which pretty much screws home builders/hobbyists.


These "tools" are the same mentality make a buck and run.

Was not SB249 because of the mag magnet? It was all over the news as such....


Then we have Tannerite ......
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:24 AM
MudCamper's Avatar
MudCamper MudCamper is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sebastopol
Posts: 4,196
iTrader: 28 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrage View Post
I agree. In the spirit of honesty though, I swear I didn't make the first response with the intention to troll. I just don't like Bill because he represents what I perceive as a Loyalist to the State for continuing to bend over backwards in an effort to acquiesce to illegal laws instead of standing in defiance to them.
You are a freakin idiot. Do you know how many people Bill has help stay out of Jail? It's countless, but I personally know a few. You don't know what you are talking about. Get over yourself.
__________________
FPC, CGF, SAF, Madison, NRA, CRPA - CCW DENIED by SCSO
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:29 AM
Wiz-of-Awd's Avatar
Wiz-of-Awd Wiz-of-Awd is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where I'm at ;)
Posts: 3,558
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Feels like this thread has just become a barrage of nonsense.

So "Page 4"

A.W.D.
__________________
Quote:
Seven. The answer is always seven.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:37 AM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 701
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default chicken or egg?

I disagree with your logic, and here is why:
By your logic, the reason that the antis keep coming up with MORE new laws against us, is because we pro-2nd people keep "provoking" them to do it by finding new ways to have the kind of guns we want. You act as if we pro-2nd people are doing these creative workarounds in some kind of vacuum. You act as if we pro-2nd people go to all this trouble, expense, and what-not for no reason whatsoever.

I say, sir, you have it 180 degrees backwards.What is really happening is this sequence:
1. People in CA have certain types of rifles and pistols that are commonplace in most other states.
2. A gun-related crime gets committed that grabs the headlines.
3. In reaction to the crime, all the libs in Sacramento gear up and write bills that chip away at the RTKBA all around the edges. Magazine sizes, bullet buttons, AR features, wait times, you name it.
4. Some of the bills pass.
5. In reaction to the new bills, CA gun owners get pissed, because now they can't have some of the firearms and features that they can easily get in most other states.
6. Small companies step in, and create small inventions that help CA gun owners continue to have the old features they still want, but still remain within the letter of the law(or close to it )
7. CA gun owners buy the new inventions, like them, and word of mouth etc. increases sales. Soon, word of the invention being used reaches the antis.
8. The antis react in horror, like this: "Those a-hole gun people! How dare they! How dare they try to work around OUR new wonderful law! We'll show them!! We'll just write ANOTHER law!!!!"
9. And then they do.
10. And the circle of insanity continues.


Sir, it's not "pushing the envelope". Rather, it's a pretty darn logical reaction to being subjected to anti-2nd laws.

Now, a "normal" person would recognize that constantly repressing people would create these kind of normal desires for circumvention and workarounds. But then, we're not dealing with "normal" people'. We're dealing with statists. We're dealing with control freaks. We're dealing with liberals.

Just as a person who is wrongly convicted and locked up in a cage will CONSTANTLY look for a way to escape, so it is with the firearm owners in the great state of CA.


~~~~~~~~


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyreb View Post
Because pushing the envelope is what gave us gems like sb249

The 80% AR insanity has given us SB808


By all means keep on pushing that grey area here in CA, the antis need fresh ideas for bans....
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 07-31-2014, 11:55 AM
johnyreb's Avatar
johnyreb johnyreb is offline
Hmmmm Hands
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chico-ish
Posts: 965
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Um okay,

Keep on with the current behavior, it's worked so well for us so far!




Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
I disagree with your logic, and here is why:
By your logic, the reason that the antis keep coming up with MORE new laws against us, is because we pro-2nd people keep "provoking" them to do it by finding new ways to have the kind of guns we want. You act as if we pro-2nd people are doing these creative workarounds in some kind of vacuum. You act as if we pro-2nd people go to all this trouble, expense, and what-not for no reason whatsoever.

I say, sir, you have it 180 degrees backwards.What is really happening is this sequence:
1. People in CA have certain types of rifles and pistols that are commonplace in most other states.
2. A gun-related crime gets committed that grabs the headlines.
3. In reaction to the crime, all the libs in Sacramento gear up and write bills that chip away at the RTKBA all around the edges. Magazine sizes, bullet buttons, AR features, wait times, you name it.
4. Some of the bills pass.
5. In reaction to the new bills, CA gun owners get pissed, because now they can't have some of the firearms and features that they can easily get in most other states.
6. Small companies step in, and create small inventions that help CA gun owners continue to have the old features they still want, but still remain within the letter of the law(or close to it )
7. CA gun owners buy the new inventions, like them, and word of mouth etc. increases sales. Soon, word of the invention being used reaches the antis.
8. The antis react in horror, like this: "Those a-hole gun people! How dare they! How dare they try to work around OUR new wonderful law! We'll show them!! We'll just write ANOTHER law!!!!"
9. And then they do.
10. And the circle of insanity continues.


Sir, it's not "pushing the envelope". Rather, it's a pretty darn logical reaction to being subjected to anti-2nd laws.

Now, a "normal" person would recognize that constantly repressing people would create these kind of normal desires for circumvention and workarounds. But then, we're not dealing with "normal" people'. We're dealing with statists. We're dealing with control freaks. We're dealing with liberals.

Just as a person who is wrongly convicted and locked up in a cage will CONSTANTLY look for a way to escape, so it is with the firearm owners in the great state of CA.


~~~~~~~~
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:00 PM
Mayor McRifle's Avatar
Mayor McRifle Mayor McRifle is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central California
Posts: 5,145
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyreb View Post
Um okay,

Keep on with the current behavior, it's worked so well for us so far!
LOL.

But if we keep doing the same thing over and over again, we're bound to get different results eventually. Right?
__________________
Anchors Aweigh

Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:02 PM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 701
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default Stand up or lie down for your rights.....

Ya know, for a guy who calls himself "johnnyreb", I don't see even the slightest smidge of "rebel" in you.

Just stating the obvious.

~~~~~~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyreb View Post
Um okay,

Keep on with the current behavior, it's worked so well for us so far!
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:07 PM
jcwatchdog jcwatchdog is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,939
iTrader: 81 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post

The number of arrests/convictions involving magnetic BB overrides in recent times is pretty high.


BTW I think in recent year or so a fair fraction of 'technical CA AW violations' charged for post-2006 guns may well've
been due to such magnetic overrides given number of cases
Can you please cite some circumstances/cases? I've just never heard of any except some ancedotal ones, but never anything solid. And I don't mean a case with a felon using a bullet button on a ar-15 while having a stash of drugs. I'm just talking about a conviction of a person who was just shooting a legal ar15 and had used a bullet button w/mag magnet.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:08 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,976
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

AB808 wasn't just about Joe Blow-Building-80%ers-in-his-garage.

AB808 happened because of accumulation of...
  • Ares' stupid PR drama;
  • BATF etc. investigation dubious CNC houses (Sacto! Fresno!...) selling a variety of
    (often illegally-configured) guns to prohibited people.

    Esp with the content of recorded conversations.

    Clearly many were in the mfg trade by known law, and "pushing the big red button" was
    an artifice. Furthermore, they appear to have assembled full guns from receivers, and
    in a variety of prohibited categories. Probl. a buncha uncharged state violations too.
[I hate that term 80% anyway since there's no such thing.]
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:11 PM
hornswaggled's Avatar
hornswaggled hornswaggled is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,653
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Default

Any magnet vendor who demos his product slapping it on a featureless rifle or separated lower and mentions nothing how it's illegal to use on the vast majority of BB'd rifles in California is

A

****ing

Scumbag
__________________
NRA Endowment Member
SAF Defender's Club
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:18 PM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego County
Posts: 701
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

It never ceases to amaze me, how many people on Calguns seem to believe that if we gunners would just be quiet, and behave ourselves, and never ask for anything new....that the anti-2nd folks in the CA State government would just magically stop writing and passing new bills.

Do some of you really believe that?

Do you really believe that no more new anti-gun laws will come, if all of us just stopped campaigning for more rights, and if all of us just stopped asking to be left alone, and if all of us just stopped asking to have the same rights as they do in most other states?

Take a step back in history, folks. Because, what is happening to us is not all that different from what happened in Nazi Germany. Step by step, group by group, the Nazis started naming "enemies" of the state. And, each time the Nazis went after another enemy, the other minorities hunkered down, hoping not to be next. But, sooner or later, the Nazis got around to THEM as well.

I propose to you, that the antis in CA are willing and able to take away all our gun rights, one by one, incrementally, in SPITE of ANYTHING we do. They don't require any actions by we law-abiding gunners to provoke them.

All they need is the headlines. All they need, is the next horrible crime.
And, that might not happen for 5 years. Or, it could happen today.

That is ALL they need. We see it over and over. All of us are just one new crazy-kook crime away from the new wave of Sacramento knee-jerk oppression.

Our opponents are opportunists of the worst kind. The bills they intend to pass some day are all pre-written, sitting in their desk drawers, just ready to be submitted when the next big crime occurs.

Has almost nothing to do with our behaviors. Has everything to do with unpredictable crimes, and how they, the statists, know how their liberal constituents--and the governor--will react to it.

~~~~~
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:19 PM
johnthomas's Avatar
johnthomas johnthomas is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Monterey County
Posts: 6,339
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
AB808 wasn't just about Joe Blow-Building-80%ers-in-his-garage.

AB808 happened because of accumulation of...
  • Ares' stupid PR drama;
  • BATF etc. investigation dubious CNC houses (Sacto! Fresno!...) selling a variety of
    (often illegally-configured) guns to prohibited people.

    Esp with the content of recorded conversations.

    Clearly many were in the mfg trade by known law, and "pushing the big red button" was
    an artifice. Furthermore, they appear to have assembled full guns from receivers, and
    in a variety of prohibited categories. Probl. a buncha uncharged state violations too.
[I hate that term 80% anyway since there's no such thing.]
I wasn't go to say anything but, I've been on the forum for a while. You have been nothing but straight up on issues and an asset to the gun community. I'm 60, being called a snitch is to put a man's integrity in question. Some may think this is a non issue, but it is. I, like you do not take this lightly. If this magnet salesman is telling folks his product is legal in California and people are losing their 2A rights because of it, maybe a class action is in line for those involved. Thank you for the heads up. JT
__________________
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:19 PM
johnyreb's Avatar
johnyreb johnyreb is offline
Hmmmm Hands
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chico-ish
Posts: 965
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
Ya know, for a guy who calls himself "johnnyreb", I don't see even the slightest smidge of "rebel" in you.

Just stating the obvious.

~~~~~~~~


Lol

Classy
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:24 PM
IVC's Avatar
IVC IVC is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Temecula
Posts: 12,963
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyreb View Post
Using CNC shops to finish ARs was determined to be illegal federally...and yet people continued....
I'm not challenging *how* it happened, merely pointing out that the pattern of "nobody is doing something, somebody starts doing something, have anti gun legislators ban something, blame those who started doing something for not being able to do something" is an invalid circular argument.

If the moment you start doing something that something becomes unavailable, then that something was never really available in the first place except for the short period during which someone made a buck and someone else benefited from it.

Compare to SSE. If we didn't use it, Sacramento wouldn't have banned it. However, if we didn't use it, there would be no harm in banning it since we weren't using it in the first place. See the problem?
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:30 PM
johnyreb's Avatar
johnyreb johnyreb is offline
Hmmmm Hands
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chico-ish
Posts: 965
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
I'm not challenging *how* it happened, merely pointing out that the pattern of "nobody is doing something, somebody starts doing something, have anti gun legislators ban something, blame those who started doing something for not being able to do something" is an invalid circular argument.

If the moment you start doing something that something becomes unavailable, then that something was never really available in the first place except for the short period during which someone made a buck and someone else benefited from it.

Compare to SSE. If we didn't use it, Sacramento wouldn't have banned it. However, if we didn't use it, there would be no harm in banning it since we weren't using it in the first place. See the problem?
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:32 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,976
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwatchdog View Post
Can you please cite some circumstances/cases? I've just never heard of any except some ancedotal ones, but never anything solid. And I don't mean a case with a felon using a bullet button on a ar-15 while having a stash of drugs. I'm just talking about a conviction of a person who was just shooting a legal ar15 and had used a bullet button w/mag magnet.
It is not rumor mill.

One Sacto lawyer affiliated w CGF has handled either cases to their end result or people that have been charged. Because of privacy I don't hear all details, though public records should be available. Not really worth my time to pull. These were only "AW from magnetic override".

People forget that shooting outside is, well, NOISY. If it's not a range, it can attract attention/complaints, investigation and examination of rifle.

Plus we've had various queries at CGF who has been approached to defend others with other case aspects, which wasn't possible.

One actual vendor at Cow Palace show was videoed last year 'demoing' a mag override on a complete BB'd AR rifle. [I have seen such felony actions repeatedly since 2009, though some smarter vendors instead demoed these on featureless guns (no legal issue as long as hicap not used), bare lowers, or "80%" lowers milled out for the mag catch.

After wrangling he plead out to felony AW violation, unknown fine and 6 months in lockup. I think timing-wise he may be out now - given nonviolent act and prison costs and prison/jail "realignment" I think he went to jail instead of prison - and with overcrowding + good time he might be out now.

I also recall Michel & Assoc. (formerly TMLLP) defended an arrestee for such a device back in 2008? 2009?ish timeframe. They issued their own warning memo which still may be searchable after their website change.
The individual was convicted, fortunately, of an AW possession wobbler (instead of mfg/transport). This means that - with lack of objection from a DA down the line - that his conviction can be 17(b) converted to a misdemeanor.

One lawyer estimates 70+% of CA Assault weapons violations - at least in the past - are due to 'domestic' situations - and not shooting outside or in transport (traffic stop). There are a variety of reasons LEOs can enter your home - exigencies like medical/fire, family members consenting, statements against interest, separate drama w/kids or unstable elderly, etc. This happened to an acquaintance a decade+ ago and fortunately the cops were cool enough to only seize AR10T and not charge [and they let him have scope, sling, ammo mags etc back.] The individual had moved back & forth to Oregon and was confused about registration (he thought 4473 paperwork + 10 day wait at dealer was 'registered'.)
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:37 PM
bwiese's Avatar
bwiese bwiese is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose
Posts: 26,976
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
Compare to SSE. If we didn't use it, Sacramento wouldn't have banned it. However, if we didn't use it, there would be no harm in banning it since we weren't using it in the first place. See the problem?

SSE went very well even in volume, even involving AR & AK pistols, from 2008 on.

DOJ didn't like it but tolerated it.

The Sacto PD scandal is the thing that blew this up - "Omigod illegal gunz are being flipped". Initial thoughts were AWs, MGs and sharks with lasers on their heads. Instead it turned out it was blue vs stainless, but there was the 'flipping' aspect involved. Dickinson got wind of the whole Roster thing and wanted PR - just like Leland Yee did after years of OLLs when Ch5 found the magMagnet-style devices. [The BB stuff was certainly known to legislators before but I believe they talked to JB's DOJ BoF and were told of issues if things changed...]
__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member

No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 07-31-2014, 1:06 PM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,561
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

The point is, any one thing can alert the legislature. You have no control over what they do... and assuming act A but not act B will prevent the legislature from screwing you over is silly. The legislature will always screw you over in the long run. At any given time they can pass whatever law they want, with no repercussions... even with Heller, Peruta, etc. It will be decades (if ever) before there are any effective restrictions on the legislature.

What you CAN do is not behave in risky behavior that is liable to get you a felony conviction and time with bubba... or support vendors that claim they stuff they sell won't get you said conviction and bubba time.

The Ares stuff and the PD flipping stuff is in the grey area. You can claim that if Ares hadn't acted like they did, or PDs weren't flipping non-rostered guns, the legislature would never have acted... but then again, you don't have much control over what others do. You can, however, protect yourself, and try to discourage risky behavior.

The OLL case is an outlier; in that *particular* case we have the legislature checkmated... they can't do anything w/o reopening registration. Something they want to avoid at all costs. If you are looking for a way to give the legislature the finger, that is your model. That requires game theory AND a good working knowledge of law. GLWT.
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamela Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 07-31-2014, 1:31 PM
Artema's Avatar
Artema Artema is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 3,843
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

I agree with you 100%. I have always been pro-2A even before I owned guns. If I had not been stationed in California for 4 years I don't know if I'd have many firearms at all. I only have 8, but I've bought and sold bunches too. I seriously don't think I'd have gotten as into it if I was completely free to do so. Hell, I almost bought a S&W Governor for no reason just because I couldn't do it while in Cali.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
I disagree with your logic, and here is why:
By your logic, the reason that the antis keep coming up with MORE new laws against us, is because we pro-2nd people keep "provoking" them to do it by finding new ways to have the kind of guns we want. You act as if we pro-2nd people are doing these creative workarounds in some kind of vacuum. You act as if we pro-2nd people go to all this trouble, expense, and what-not for no reason whatsoever.

I say, sir, you have it 180 degrees backwards.What is really happening is this sequence:
1. People in CA have certain types of rifles and pistols that are commonplace in most other states.
2. A gun-related crime gets committed that grabs the headlines.
3. In reaction to the crime, all the libs in Sacramento gear up and write bills that chip away at the RTKBA all around the edges. Magazine sizes, bullet buttons, AR features, wait times, you name it.
4. Some of the bills pass.
5. In reaction to the new bills, CA gun owners get pissed, because now they can't have some of the firearms and features that they can easily get in most other states.
6. Small companies step in, and create small inventions that help CA gun owners continue to have the old features they still want, but still remain within the letter of the law(or close to it )
7. CA gun owners buy the new inventions, like them, and word of mouth etc. increases sales. Soon, word of the invention being used reaches the antis.
8. The antis react in horror, like this: "Those a-hole gun people! How dare they! How dare they try to work around OUR new wonderful law! We'll show them!! We'll just write ANOTHER law!!!!"
9. And then they do.
10. And the circle of insanity continues.


Sir, it's not "pushing the envelope". Rather, it's a pretty darn logical reaction to being subjected to anti-2nd laws.

Now, a "normal" person would recognize that constantly repressing people would create these kind of normal desires for circumvention and workarounds. But then, we're not dealing with "normal" people'. We're dealing with statists. We're dealing with control freaks. We're dealing with liberals.

Just as a person who is wrongly convicted and locked up in a cage will CONSTANTLY look for a way to escape, so it is with the firearm owners in the great state of CA.


~~~~~~~~
__________________
- SAAMI Pressure Specs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artema View Post
I'd go to the grocery store with polymer, and I'd go to war with steel.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 07-31-2014, 2:19 PM
IVC's Avatar
IVC IVC is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Temecula
Posts: 12,963
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Dickinson got wind of the whole Roster thing and wanted PR ...
It was just a matter of time even without the flipping.

The magazine rebuild kits were gone once they became mainstream enough for the legislators to notice (not to mention that I'd put some good money on majority being used illegally.) The legislators then tried the same with "closing the BB loophole," but Brown vetoed it (would've backfired on them too.)

The only point is that I don't blame, e.g., the FFL-s who do SSE for what is about to happen on 1/1/2015.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 07-31-2014, 2:25 PM
IVC's Avatar
IVC IVC is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Temecula
Posts: 12,963
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnyreb View Post
That's a pretty elaborate retort that clearly conveys your opinion...
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 07-31-2014, 3:04 PM
-hanko's Avatar
-hanko -hanko is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Bay Area & SW Idaho
Posts: 10,255
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornswaggled View Post
Any magnet vendor who demos his product slapping it on a featureless rifle or separated lower and mentions nothing how it's illegal to use on the vast majority of BB'd rifles in California is

A

****ing

Scumbag
As is anyone in California naive and/or stupid enough to use the magnet product on his weapon without researching the legalities.

No one is responsible for what you do, but you.
__________________
"Tactical" is like boobs...you can sell anything with it....arf
I see the gulf of Mexico
As tiny as a tear
The coast of California
Must be somewhere over here, over here
Greatful Dead
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 07-31-2014, 3:40 PM
five.five-six's Avatar
five.five-six five.five-six is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,277
iTrader: 58 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
(he thought 4473 paperwork + 10 day wait at dealer was 'registered'.)
It is amazing just how common this misconception is.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosdanger View Post
Dude give it up. The election is was months ago. Hillary is toast. Her political career is over.

Or do you just hate her so much you can't let go?
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 07-31-2014, 4:12 PM
rootuser rootuser is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,772
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjjj View Post
It never ceases to amaze me, how many people on Calguns seem to believe that if we gunners would just be quiet, and behave ourselves, and never ask for anything new....that the anti-2nd folks in the CA State government would just magically stop writing and passing new bills.

Do some of you really believe that?

Do you really believe that no more new anti-gun laws will come, if all of us just stopped campaigning for more rights, and if all of us just stopped asking to be left alone, and if all of us just stopped asking to have the same rights as they do in most other states?

Take a step back in history, folks. Because, what is happening to us is not all that different from what happened in Nazi Germany. Step by step, group by group, the Nazis started naming "enemies" of the state. And, each time the Nazis went after another enemy, the other minorities hunkered down, hoping not to be next. But, sooner or later, the Nazis got around to THEM as well.

I propose to you, that the antis in CA are willing and able to take away all our gun rights, one by one, incrementally, in SPITE of ANYTHING we do. They don't require any actions by we law-abiding gunners to provoke them.

All they need is the headlines. All they need, is the next horrible crime.
And, that might not happen for 5 years. Or, it could happen today.

That is ALL they need. We see it over and over. All of us are just one new crazy-kook crime away from the new wave of Sacramento knee-jerk oppression.

Our opponents are opportunists of the worst kind. The bills they intend to pass some day are all pre-written, sitting in their desk drawers, just ready to be submitted when the next big crime occurs.

Has almost nothing to do with our behaviors. Has everything to do with unpredictable crimes, and how they, the statists, know how their liberal constituents--and the governor--will react to it.

~~~~~
I tend to agree, that there are too many in this forum that do nothing. Don't vote, don't belong to the NRA, don't donate time and or money, etc etc so the anti-gun bills will just keep coming and coming. You are right. Us doing nothing at all won't help.

No one is suggesting "lay down". We are suggesting, it certainly helps to be able to fight if you are NOT a felon and wasting your resources fighting a felony over something completely stupid.

Vendors like this tool and Ares are predatory. They are motivated by GREED and a desire for your money. They are not altruistic. They are not trying to "better" the community. If they were so altruistic, there are many things they could be doing rather than getting busted and giving up their customer lists or claiming a heretofore upstanding member of our community called the DOJ without a shred of proof.

It is their right to sell this stuff, and I would not take that away from them, but you've got to realize what/who you are dealing with. Scum buckets of the Nth degree. A lot of gun dealers and FFLs make good livings without having to resort to tactics that put their clientele in jeopardy unknowingly. It is possible to have good clean gun businesses and thankfully the vast majority of the businesses in this arena are exactly that. There are a select few who are not.

So all in all I agree with you, but suggesting that this vendor acted like a pig-eyed sack of garbage doesn't mean roll over and say nothing. It means stand up and keep fighting, against those that want to violate our civil rights and those who spread lies against our own.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 07-31-2014, 4:28 PM
johnyreb's Avatar
johnyreb johnyreb is offline
Hmmmm Hands
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chico-ish
Posts: 965
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IVC View Post
That's a pretty elaborate retort that clearly conveys your opinion...

Beats the hell out of 600 word worthless posts......
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:22 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.