Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:07 AM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dskit View Post
Better yet, don't let a guy who "counts clicks" help you.
Yeah. Totally. Don't let anyone who counts clicks help you. Because none of those guys can shoot. Except, you know, a pile of the best shooters in the country.
__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?

Last edited by milotrain; 03-18-2014 at 11:56 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:41 AM
Ahhnother8 Ahhnother8 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orangevale, CA
Posts: 1,454
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by milotrain View Post
Yeah. Totally. Don't let anyone who count's clicks help you. Because none of those guys can shoot. Except, you know, a pile of the best shooters in the WORLD.
Most all of them...
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 03-18-2014, 12:18 PM
dskit's Avatar
dskit dskit is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 393
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahhnother8 View Post
Most all of them...
If Lane tells me he counts 80 (or how ever many) clicks on his sights to get to his yardage I will offer a full apology.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 03-18-2014, 12:26 PM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

How else would he do it? It's how we all do it with iron sights. Hell Konrad Powers doesn't even know what his click value is, he just knows "this is a 4 click wind" and his dope book is in "clicks" not portions of an MOA. Your sights aren't actually 1/4 or 1/2 MOA sights, they are detents of a 32tpi screw (or similar), which is pretty close to 1/4 or 1/2MOA but not exactly. Once you shoot a lot you start developing dope for the rifle which is different from what the math would suggest.
__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 03-18-2014, 12:32 PM
dskit's Avatar
dskit dskit is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 393
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Read the micrometer on the sights?
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 03-18-2014, 1:01 PM
Sunday Sunday is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Shasta Co.
Posts: 5,628
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Semi off topic but ,,, getting into long distance shooting??? John Plaster's Ultimate Sniper book is an awesome handbook . IMHO money well spent. Don't make changes until changes really need to be made.
__________________
California's politicians and government employees are a crime gang that makes the Mexican drug cartels look like a Girl Scout Troop in comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 03-18-2014, 1:04 PM
russ69's Avatar
russ69 russ69 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,233
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dskit View Post
If Lane tells me he counts 80 (or how ever many) clicks on his sights to get to his yardage I will offer a full apology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dskit View Post
Read the micrometer on the sights?
Target shooters have the data to dial their scope to zero for all known shooting distances. They want to use the center of the cross hairs not count dots for holdovers. Field shooters, we'll call them, use mil/moa dot holdovers because they shoot at unknown distances that they my not have a zero for. Both methods are acceptable but target shooters usually twist the knobs.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 03-18-2014, 1:37 PM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dskit View Post
Read the micrometer on the sights?
Oh I get what you are saying. Sure, you can do that. It's good practice to zero out the sights in between ranges and count back up, as you can sometimes see the numbers incorrectly but counting is pretty dead on. The AR is a good example, its windage in 1/4 versions, is really fine and can look zeroed when it isn't. Paint marks and counting keeps you on your dope. With match sights this is also true, the micrometer is a useful reference but paralax can screw you. Look at Warner tools sight photo, from that angle I'm not sure how to read the sight, I'm sure it's zero because it's the company photo but from the side like that, while on the gun in prone I wouldn't read that as zero on a bad day.

__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?

Last edited by milotrain; 03-18-2014 at 1:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 03-18-2014, 4:50 PM
osis32's Avatar
osis32 osis32 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,355
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default




this is what I got going on right now. still gotta make a rice sock and pick up a limbsaver.
__________________
just a conservative guy in a liberal state.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 03-18-2014, 5:53 PM
postal postal is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Riverside
Posts: 4,567
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsumoba View Post
for people that have been to the LR wind calling clinic, can anyone give a summary of how the clinic runs or what to expect?

also, speaking of "clicks," will the people in the clinic prefer that you do turret adjustments for elevation and wind or can you simply use your holdover reticle (if you have one such as a G2, Horus, Tremor, etc). I would like to practice both in the class.
Most people I know, dial elevation for distance when this is possible, but most people I know "hold" wind and not dial, since wind conditions can change quickly.

I say dial for distance when possible, because a lot of the matches I shoot, they have you hit targets at different distances in a short amount of time, and you dont have time to dial, or they tell you "you cant dial- holdover only". Otherwise, dial ALL THE TIME for distance.

Dialing elevation is always more accurate than hold over. Dial when you can. Hold over when you need to. As I said, I dont know anyone that dials wind though, because wind conditions change quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 03-18-2014, 6:24 PM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

If you run irons you dial windage (almost universally). Being able to see the conditions, get on the rifle and break the shot quickly and accurately before the wind changes is one of the skills you should develop, regardless if you are on glass or on irons. This is why a "sense of the wind" is more important than simply being able to dope a condition, and it's also why you should try to shoot in growing wind rather than falling wind.

Disclaimer: I'm just barely starting to learn how to shoot in the wind, this is mostly stuff I've gleaned from good shooters around me.
__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 03-18-2014, 6:24 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Ball Pimp 4 Border Collie
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,309
iTrader: 282 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dskit View Post
Better yet, don't let a guy who "counts clicks" help you.
And so what do you count ?

If you have to dial in 225 inches do you just twist the knobs randomly? That'll really work great!! You count clicks and know what each click value is.

Maybe you should enlighten me on a better method which doesn't involve counting???

Go ahead, enlighten all of us.

Everyone's an expert on the Internet but I'm thinking you are a poser.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 03-18-2014, 6:55 PM
Ahhnother8 Ahhnother8 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orangevale, CA
Posts: 1,454
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
Everyone's an expert on the Internet but I'm thinking you are a poser.
No, he's not. Them there scope shooters are just a bit "off"!!
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 03-18-2014, 6:59 PM
RobG's Avatar
RobG RobG is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Prietostan
Posts: 4,706
iTrader: 97 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
And so what do you count ?

If you have to dial in 225 inches do you just twist the knobs randomly? That'll really work great!! You count clicks and know what each click value is.

Maybe you should enlighten me on a better method which doesn't involve counting???

Go ahead, enlighten all of us.

Everyone's an expert on the Internet but I'm thinking you are a poser.
I think the point is you aren't counting every single "click" of the turret. They are numbered so you just spin it until you get there. Maybe you count the last few but, not every single one. Unless of course your scope has no numbering then you have no choice. But those aren't scopes people are using where they have to dial constantly during a match or similar. And we are talking scopes, not open sights.

I know Skit, he is a 100% poser
__________________
*PSE Archery* *Gold Tip Arrows* *Riptide Code Red* *Magnus Broadheads* *Scott Release* *Archery Shack bowstrings* *Trophy Ridge bow sights* *Bee Stinger* *Vortex Optics* *EXO Mountain*
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 03-18-2014, 7:02 PM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
every single "click" of the turret.
Yeah, a lot of guys actually are. I get yelled at when I spin the turret to a number and count from there (which I only do in large elevation changes when transitioning ranges). Irons though, not optics. If you are spinning the knobs and not counting then eventually you are looking at the knobs and not the conditions. I count because I want to be looking at the conditions.
__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 03-18-2014, 7:04 PM
RobG's Avatar
RobG RobG is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Prietostan
Posts: 4,706
iTrader: 97 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahhnother8 View Post
No, he's not. Them there scope shooters are just a bit "off"!!
That's what I heard 'bout those colorful "straight jacket" dudes, too
__________________
*PSE Archery* *Gold Tip Arrows* *Riptide Code Red* *Magnus Broadheads* *Scott Release* *Archery Shack bowstrings* *Trophy Ridge bow sights* *Bee Stinger* *Vortex Optics* *EXO Mountain*
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 03-18-2014, 7:30 PM
ExtremeX's Avatar
ExtremeX ExtremeX is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,121
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
If you have to dial in 225 inches do you just twist the knobs randomly? That'll really work great!! You count clicks and know what each click value is.

Maybe you should enlighten me on a better method which doesn't involve counting???
I think it also depends on how you prefer the ballistic software to report data...

Personally I don't even look at inches or clicks. I only look at the angular unit of measurement... MOA or MIL

All my drop sheets are setup in MOA or MIL, so if its 26 MOA of drop, I just dial directly to 26 MOA. It helps me since I have some lower power scopes which are setup in 1/2 MOA increments and some in 1/4 MOA increments.

For example my my Vortex PST 6-24x give me 12 MOA per rev, so I spin it twice and add 2 MOA from my zero. I find it easier than actually counting 104 clicks....

I guess its kinda the same deal, but the way my turrets are numbered I find it easier just to use the angular unit of measurement on the dial.
__________________
ExtremeX
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 03-18-2014, 9:23 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Ball Pimp 4 Border Collie
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,309
iTrader: 282 / 100%
Default

Moa, mils, inches... It doesn't matter. Eventually you have to count something. Sure, you can do full revolutions once you know a revolution is so many clicks, and you know what the clicks are. But is that bit still counting? Aren't you doing a summation if the units, only in bulk??


If you use one type scope and veneer I can see how you could take short cuts, such as paint lines on a rear AR sight, but if you are on a different rifle with different type sights or different scopes frequently shortcuts can lead to mistakes.

You don't have zero stops on match sights or on a service rifle...you just bottom out or run outa range.

The op is just starting out, he can take shortcuts once he has his dials mastered.

Last edited by bubbapug1; 03-18-2014 at 9:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:39 PM
ExtremeX's Avatar
ExtremeX ExtremeX is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,121
iTrader: 41 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
Moa, mils, inches... It doesn't matter. Eventually you have to count something. Sure, you can do full revolutions once you know a revolution is so many clicks, and you know what the clicks are. But is that bit still counting? Aren't you doing a summation if the units, only in bulk??

If you use one type scope and veneer I can see how you could take short cuts, such as paint lines on a rear AR sight, but if you are on a different rifle with different type sights or different scopes frequently shortcuts can lead to mistakes.

You don't have zero stops on match sights or on a service rifle...you just bottom out or run outa range.

The op is just starting out, he can take shortcuts once he has his dials mastered.
Not really…regardless of how many clicks per rev, 26 MOA is 26 MOA… I am just dialing in the appropriate angular unit of measurement needed for the given distance. That unit of measurement also correlates to what I see in my reticle.

If I take a shot at an unknown distance and it needs correction, I don’t measure that in inches, I measure that in MOA. Looking at the reticle it’s a lot easier to just see that I was 3 MOA off center vs trying to figure out how many inches, then figuring out how many clicks or MOA I need for that distance. Ultimately you will need to translate that into something usable on the dial.

Same goes for when I have someone spotting for me, someone tell me I am hitting dirt a foot or two off target means a lot less than telling me I need to come right 2 MOA…

The way I see it, working in inches still requires conversion into MOA or MIL before you can dial that correction.

1” will always be 1”
But 1 MOA can be 1.047” at 100 yards, or 2.094 @ 200 yards…
It would be 50 clicks or 100 clicks depending on the scope, but 26 MOA is always 26 MOA, regardless of the scope.

Different stokes for different folks… I’m not saying one was is the right way, I just personally find it easier, and faster working a scope the way I currently do, and I don't count individual clicks on a scope.
__________________
ExtremeX

Last edited by ExtremeX; 03-18-2014 at 10:44 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:43 PM
RobG's Avatar
RobG RobG is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Prietostan
Posts: 4,706
iTrader: 97 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
Moa, mils, inches... It doesn't matter. Eventually you have to count something. Sure, you can do full revolutions once you know a revolution is so many clicks, and you know what the clicks are. But is that bit still counting? Aren't you doing a summation if the units, only in bulk??


If you use one type scope and veneer I can see how you could take short cuts, such as paint lines on a rear AR sight, but if you are on a different rifle with different type sights or different scopes frequently shortcuts can lead to mistakes.

You don't have zero stops on match sights or on a service rifle...you just bottom out or run outa range.

The op is just starting out, he can take shortcuts once he has his dials mastered.
I don't count anything. I know what my dope is for the conditions and turn the turret to the corresponding number and fire away. We are talking scope turrets here, not open sights, match sight, service rifle sights, etc. Let's not confuse the dude any more than needed
__________________
*PSE Archery* *Gold Tip Arrows* *Riptide Code Red* *Magnus Broadheads* *Scott Release* *Archery Shack bowstrings* *Trophy Ridge bow sights* *Bee Stinger* *Vortex Optics* *EXO Mountain*
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:47 PM
RobG's Avatar
RobG RobG is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Prietostan
Posts: 4,706
iTrader: 97 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeX View Post
Not really…regardless of how many clicks per rev, 26 MOA is 26 MOA… I am just dialing in the appropriate angular unit of measurement needed for the given distance. That unit of measurement also correlates to what I see in my reticle.

If I take a shot at an unknown distance and it needs correction, I don’t measure that in inches, I measure that in MOA. Looking at the reticle it’s a lot easier to just see that I was 3 MOA off center vs trying to figure out how many inches, then figuring out how many clicks or MOA I need for that distance. Ultimately you will need to translate that into something usable on the dial.

Same goes for when I have someone spotting for me, someone tell me I am hitting dirt a foot or two off target means a lot less than telling me I need to come right 2 MOA…

The way I see it, working in inches still requires conversion into MOA or MIL before you can dial that correction.

1” will always be 1”
But 1 MOA can be 1.047” at 100 yards, or 2.094 @ 200 yards…
It would be 50 clicks or 100 clicks depending on the scope, but 26 MOA is always 26 MOA, regardless of the scope.

Different stokes for different folks… I’m not saying one was is the right way, I just personally find it easier, and faster working a scope the way I currently do, and I don't count individual clicks on a scope.
Nicely said. Why count 100 clicks when you can simply turn the turret to the 26 moa mark?
__________________
*PSE Archery* *Gold Tip Arrows* *Riptide Code Red* *Magnus Broadheads* *Scott Release* *Archery Shack bowstrings* *Trophy Ridge bow sights* *Bee Stinger* *Vortex Optics* *EXO Mountain*
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:56 PM
JMP's Avatar
JMP JMP is offline
Internet Warrior
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pacific Southwest
Posts: 17,066
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

This thread is silly...turret readings vs. counting clicks vs. holdovers--there is a time and place for various methods.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 03-19-2014, 5:45 AM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Ball Pimp 4 Border Collie
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,309
iTrader: 282 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobG View Post
I don't count anything. I know what my dope is for the conditions and turn the turret to the corresponding number and fire away. We are talking scope turrets here, not open sights, match sight, service rifle sights, etc. Let's not confuse the dude any more than needed
Exactly my intent, don't confuse the guy new to scopes, units of angle, etc.

I wanted to run his load knowing his click value and distance and tell him how much to turn his dials. The simplistic way between two points over the Internet. Let's not add breaking it down into rotations per Moa, etc.

Keep it simple. He can go to step 3 later.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 03-19-2014, 8:55 AM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMP View Post
This thread is silly...turret readings vs. counting clicks vs. holdovers--there is a time and place for various methods.
The thread is fine, an argument happened when bubbapug1 offered to make a dope card for the OP and was berated for counting clicks. I doubt any offense was meant but offense was taken. I get protective of people I know who are good, who mean well, work hard and get called out because they do something different. That spiraled into a "method" argument (which I contributed to).

Different methods at different times indeed but no one needs to imply that someone else's method is wrong and their advice is worthless.

-A crazy straight jacket loon.
__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 03-19-2014, 9:10 AM
dskit's Avatar
dskit dskit is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 393
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

A spirited debate! I like that...
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 03-19-2014, 9:32 AM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,259
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Indeed, and a discussion of method is always worth having. It's a great way for me to be reminded that I shoot in a very narrow spectrum, and there are a number of other disciplines going on that I know nothing about.
__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 03-19-2014, 11:55 AM
RobG's Avatar
RobG RobG is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Prietostan
Posts: 4,706
iTrader: 97 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbapug1 View Post
Exactly my intent, don't confuse the guy new to scopes, units of angle, etc.

I wanted to run his load knowing his click value and distance and tell him how much to turn his dials. The simplistic way between two points over the Internet. Let's not add breaking it down into rotations per Moa, etc.

Keep it simple. He can go to step 3 later.
Actually it would be beneficial if he learned moa/mil/angular measurements before the clinic as it will give him a head start. If he starts counting off click when the shooting begins, he will likely become confused and frustrated, which will diminish his reason for being there; shooting long range.
__________________
*PSE Archery* *Gold Tip Arrows* *Riptide Code Red* *Magnus Broadheads* *Scott Release* *Archery Shack bowstrings* *Trophy Ridge bow sights* *Bee Stinger* *Vortex Optics* *EXO Mountain*
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 03-19-2014, 1:53 PM
osis32's Avatar
osis32 osis32 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,355
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobG View Post
Actually it would be beneficial if he learned moa/mil/angular measurements before the clinic as it will give him a head start. If he starts counting off click when the shooting begins, he will likely become confused and frustrated, which will diminish his reason for being there; shooting long range.
Im curious what you mean by that?Im all about learning.
__________________
just a conservative guy in a liberal state.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 03-19-2014, 2:10 PM
dskit's Avatar
dskit dskit is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 393
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

We get guys who come to our clinics not knowing how to property zero their turrets so they count clicks. If we don't catch it (we remind them beforhand) they invarialble get lost in how many clicks up they are when we start moving.

For example, someone counts 26 clicks at 500 yards but has to click up couple and down a couple - maybe his prone is not consistent or he's riding the scope - how many was that now? Let's see, up 3, but down 2, that's 27.

So his 600 yard dope is 37 clicks, now, does he count down 26 clicks to "zero" and back up to 37 for 600. Or just dial, (wait, 37 minus 26 (no, it was 27, is 10) 10 more clicks?? What if he forgets when ge gets to the next line, did I dial before I left or not. Hmmm....

Far easier to use the tool correctly, zero the turrets at 100 and just read the turrets.

I could drop to the 1k line now and put my dial on 8.5 mils and my elevation will be good. I know 600 is 3.7 mils and I put my dial there.

Whoops, my wind call was off. Using my mil reticle, that spotter was .5 mils left - now I can dial my wind to .5 right or just hold the .5 mil hash on the center of the target.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 03-19-2014, 2:13 PM
bsumoba's Avatar
bsumoba bsumoba is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,943
iTrader: 72 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
Im curious what you mean by that?Im all about learning.
this helped me out: http://www.mil-dot.com/media/1027/th..._equations.pdf

although its a lot of math and geometry, it was a little easy for me being from an engineering background.

you could also check out these series of vids. I learned a lot from this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...BZi0vDCIcEPxUn

if you want to skip the math and go straight to the calculator, try Strelok, which is a free ballistic program on your phone or android system. although, most here will recommend you understand the math behind it. this program might even have your reticle for your scope to help you determine holdovers. you will need to know some things though like your bullet weight, BC, velocity, atmospheric conditions (temp, baro, altitude, etc) at the time you did you chronograph readings as well as your current conditions you are shooting in. The output will be your drop charts, and will show what your "adjustments" should be on your scope and will show you in MOA, MRAD, inches, and "clicks" (assuming you have the right scope and your scopes adjustments in the program).
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 03-19-2014, 2:19 PM
osis32's Avatar
osis32 osis32 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,355
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

looks to me likes its a combination of geometry and physics. Ill have to read it in more detail when I get home tonight.
__________________
just a conservative guy in a liberal state.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 03-19-2014, 2:20 PM
bsumoba's Avatar
bsumoba bsumoba is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,943
iTrader: 72 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dskit View Post
We get guys who come to our clinics not knowing how to property zero their turrets so they count clicks. If we don't catch it (we remind them beforhand) they invarialble get lost in how many clicks up they are when we start moving.

For example, someone counts 26 clicks at 500 yards but has to click up couple and down a couple - maybe his prone is not consistent or he's riding the scope - how many was that now? Let's see, up 3, but down 2, that's 27.

So his 600 yard dope is 37 clicks, now, does he count down 26 clicks to "zero" and back up to 37 for 600. Or just dial, (wait, 37 minus 26 (no, it was 27, is 10) 10 more clicks?? What if he forgets when ge gets to the next line, did I dial before I left or not. Hmmm....

Far easier to use the tool correctly, zero the turrets at 100 and just read the turrets.

I could drop to the 1k line now and put my dial on 8.5 mils and my elevation will be good. I know 600 is 3.7 mils and I put my dial there.

Whoops, my wind call was off. Using my mil reticle, that spotter was .5 mils left - now I can dial my wind to .5 right or just hold the .5 mil hash on the center of the target.
you're talking about getting getting your scope zero'd @ 100 yards for a particular load, then adjusting both the elevation and wind turrets so they are both reading "0" correct? (most scopes will have you back out some screws and then you pop off the turret and have it so the "0" on the turret is in line with the has mark on the scope body).
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 03-19-2014, 2:21 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Ball Pimp 4 Border Collie
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,309
iTrader: 282 / 100%
Default

I think the most important thing in the beginning is to understand what each click is in terms of distance at the range you are shooting, and than to have a good spotter who can tell you how far off your shot was. I.e.....add five feet up and two feet right... Or Jesus man your hitting the 700 yard line berm.

It helps to remember how lost some of us were when starting out dealing with drop and the physics behind exterior ballistics. What's seems straight forward to us now seems like black art to those without a good grounding in dynamics and or physics.

I count clicks because I only dial in no more than three or four Moa and we I am hopefully trying to move to within 2" of dead center at times... Plus I can't make out the veneer on my scopes or match sights because I'm 58.

I was just trying to help get the OP on paper. I kind if felt like I got cheap shotted like mr milo stated. Thanks for looking out for the feeble old man!!
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 03-19-2014, 2:47 PM
dskit's Avatar
dskit dskit is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 393
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

It was a cheap shot, but what else is Calguns good for? Mis-information and cheap shots are about 50% of the postings, aren't they?

I personnally don't like to do inches becase to adjust 12 inches at 600 yards is different than 12 inches at 1000 yards - so I would have do math in the middle of a srting.

That why I will mil the spotter - .5 mil is .5 mil no matter the distance.

Last edited by dskit; 03-19-2014 at 2:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 03-19-2014, 3:08 PM
RobG's Avatar
RobG RobG is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Prietostan
Posts: 4,706
iTrader: 97 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsumoba View Post
you're talking about getting getting your scope zero'd @ 100 yards for a particular load, then adjusting both the elevation and wind turrets so they are both reading "0" correct? (most scopes will have you back out some screws and then you pop off the turret and have it so the "0" on the turret is in line with the has mark on the scope body).
Correct. Osis is running a PST which has zero stops and easily zero'd turrets. Not sure if he is moa or mil, does not matter really, he will simply go by what his impacts tell him. JBM will get him damn close, he can fine tune from there.

Being a FFP scope, all he has to do is use the reticle to measure how far off he is, adjust as needed, and fire again. It sounds crazy complicated until put into action where it all starts to make sense. This clinic has no unmarked ranges so there is no mystery involved.

There will be no significant counting of clicks. Simply dial the turret to the required elevation and maybe count the last few tenths and that's it.
__________________
*PSE Archery* *Gold Tip Arrows* *Riptide Code Red* *Magnus Broadheads* *Scott Release* *Archery Shack bowstrings* *Trophy Ridge bow sights* *Bee Stinger* *Vortex Optics* *EXO Mountain*
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 03-19-2014, 4:16 PM
bubbapug1's Avatar
bubbapug1 bubbapug1 is offline
Ball Pimp 4 Border Collie
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South South OC
Posts: 7,309
iTrader: 282 / 100%
Default

Ar15 barrels wrote a nice thread on why he prefers Moa to mils. I think it's a good read. I have come to appreciate Moa more than mils as I think working in common units (inches) leaves less to error. You can still range off of Moa hash marks too. The math just seems more straight forward to me.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 03-19-2014, 4:41 PM
bsumoba's Avatar
bsumoba bsumoba is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,943
iTrader: 72 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobG View Post
Correct. Osis is running a PST which has zero stops and easily zero'd turrets. Not sure if he is moa or mil, does not matter really, he will simply go by what his impacts tell him. JBM will get him damn close, he can fine tune from there.

Being a FFP scope, all he has to do is use the reticle to measure how far off he is, adjust as needed, and fire again. It sounds crazy complicated until put into action where it all starts to make sense. This clinic has no unmarked ranges so there is no mystery involved.

There will be no significant counting of clicks. Simply dial the turret to the required elevation and maybe count the last few tenths and that's it.
This is what I am going to do. I have a Bushnell HDMR 3.5-21x and when I get my load developed, I'll zero it, throw all the variables into both JBM and Strelok (just to compare the outputs) and then get my drop tables, I'll note how many "click" or MILS per revolution I have and when its time to turn the turrets, I'll know what to do from there. When I get to a 300 yd line (prior to the class), I'll use real world impacts to adjust my drop charts (which Strelok and I am assuming JBM can help to do) so then my data is now real and not theoretical. Does this sound like a good strategy?
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 03-19-2014, 4:53 PM
RobG's Avatar
RobG RobG is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Prietostan
Posts: 4,706
iTrader: 97 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsumoba View Post
This is what I am going to do. I have a Bushnell HDMR 3.5-21x and when I get my load developed, I'll zero it, throw all the variables into both JBM and Strelok (just to compare the outputs) and then get my drop tables, I'll note how many "click" or MILS per revolution I have and when its time to turn the turrets, I'll know what to do from there. When I get to a 300 yd line (prior to the class), I'll use real world impacts to adjust my drop charts (which Strelok and I am assuming JBM can help to do) so then my data is now real and not theoretical. Does this sound like a good strategy?
Yup. JBM is real close but, only real world shooting will get you exact elevations.
__________________
*PSE Archery* *Gold Tip Arrows* *Riptide Code Red* *Magnus Broadheads* *Scott Release* *Archery Shack bowstrings* *Trophy Ridge bow sights* *Bee Stinger* *Vortex Optics* *EXO Mountain*
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 03-19-2014, 6:06 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 43,858
iTrader: 94 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by osis32 View Post
Im curious what you mean by that?Im all about learning.

Go read my thread "how to use your scope" on CAPRC...
__________________
Randall Rausch

AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
Glock, XD and M&P pistols, Benelli and Remington shotguns: barrel, sight, trigger and receiver work.
Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and weekend appointments available.
Founding member of the CAPRC
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 03-19-2014, 6:31 PM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,928
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

I'm pretty sure if Jerry Tierney is your coach he will say you need to come 4 minutes to the right.You grab the side turret and move it 4 big numbers.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:00 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.