Open Carry: status of federal civil lawsuits challenging "No Open Carry" laws

[solanoslough]

If anyone wants a preview of an open carry challenge to CA law just look at what happened in Tennessee. The courts decided that it didn't matter if the plaintiff was denied a carry permit, he still could be denied open carry of a long arm and pistol in public because exceptions were in place and there was no complete ban.

We believe this right of "citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home" to be the core Second Amendment right under Heller and McDonald. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1307 (a)(1) is not a prohibition on the possession on firearms in the home. It is not even a genuine prohibition on the carrying of firearms, as there are numerous defenses to the law. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1308 provides:

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;

(2) By a person authorized to possess or carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351;

(3) At the person's:

(A) Place of residence;

(B) Place of business; or

(C) Premises;

(4) Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;

(5) By a person possessing a rifle or shotgun while engaged in the lawful protection of livestock from predatory animals;

(6) By a Tennessee valley authority officer who holds a valid commission from the commissioner of safety pursuant to this part while the officer is in the performance of the officer's official duties;

(7) By a state, county or municipal judge or any federal judge or any federal or county magistrate;

(8) By a person possessing a club or baton who holds a valid state security guard/officer registration card as a private security guard/officer, issued by the commissioner, and who also has certification that the officer has had training in the use of club or baton that is valid and issued by a person certified to give training in the use of clubs or batons;

(9) By any person possessing a club or baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club or baton for self-defense that is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs or batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws; or

(10) By any out-of-state, full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer who holds a valid commission card from the appropriate out-of-state law enforcement agency and a photo identification; provided, that if no valid commission card and photo identification are retained, then it shall be unlawful for that officer to carry firearms in this state and the provisions of this section shall not apply. The defense provided by this subdivision (a)(10) shall only be applicable if the state where the out-of-state officer is employed has entered into a reciprocity agreement with this state that allows a full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer in Tennessee to lawfully carry or possess a weapon in the other state.

Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1308 (a) (2010).

There is no complete ban here in CA, expect open carry challenges to fail here too. The above case failed in both state and federal courts.

[edfardos]

The state solicitor general conceded that the 2nd amendment applied outside the curtailage of a person's home. That's a key difference to the case law/exceptions you enumerated. Its good/interesting info in any event - thanks.

[press1280]

Originally Posted by edfardos

The state solicitor general conceded that the 2nd amendment applied outside the curtailage of a person's home. That's a key difference to the case law/exceptions you enumerated. Its good/interesting info in any event - thanks.

The problem is other courts have also (to varying degrees) said this, and have accepted may-issue or other meager exceptions are satisfying the right. We're not dealing with honest courts here to say the least.
In fact if they were really honest they'd say it doesn't apply outside your door. But they won't because they don't want it going to SCOTUS because of a split with Moore.

[Dr.Lou]

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson

There was a Florida criminal case challenging no open carry laws that's being sponsored by Florida Carry.

Also, the Northern Marianas Islands and American Samoa also have total carry bans. That is located in the 9th Circuit.

I've wondered how NMI, American Somo and the other US Territories deal with LEOSA carry, since it's authorized - 18 USC 926 b/c.

[Paladin]

Anyone know if there are any federal OC lawsuits filed against Wash. D.C.?

Just don't want us left in the lurch if Wrenn & Grace get shot down ("no right to CCing").

[press1280]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Anyone know if there are any federal OC lawsuits filed against Wash. D.C.?

Just don't want us left in the lurch if Wrenn & Grace get shot down ("no right to CCing").

Not aware of any, which could come back to bite us.

On the plus side DC isn't really even fighting on the "OC is the right" angle, probably afraid that they'll be boxed into OC down the road. Same goes with Illinois in the Culp case. Both are essentially arguing the right either doesn't extend outside the home or that it's not part of the "core" right and a really weak form of scrutiny is applied where the words "public safety" trumps all.