Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > 2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 11-28-2017, 6:35 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notarycat View Post
I'm wondering if the original post meant ammo purchases conducted physically out of state, not about online purchases. I know of many people that have flocked to NV, OR, AZ to purchase ammo by the trunk-load. My question, and perhaps that of the original post, is the legality of bringing ammo back to CA when it was physically purchased in another state. So, if I drive to OR to buy ammo, can I simply load it in the car and drive back home to CA without consequence?
It's the same statute. One part prohibits direct importation (must bring ammo to a vendor for transfer)
Quote:
30314. (a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
the other requires face-to-face transfers (which precludes internet purchases).
Quote:
(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.
There are limited exceptions to each, but they don't relate to your question.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...r=1.&article=2.

Best.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-28-2017, 6:42 AM
AGGRO's Avatar
AGGRO AGGRO is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,914
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aBrowningfan View Post
It is going to be a complete clusterf*ck at the start of the year.
Not for us reloaders.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-28-2017, 8:38 AM
baranski's Avatar
baranski baranski is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: South Vista
Posts: 2,544
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGGRO View Post
Not for us reloaders.
Same sheet the LEO say about magazines and the roster.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-28-2017, 9:27 AM
abinsinia's Avatar
abinsinia abinsinia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 499
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Lets say I own a Mauser and it uses 8mm Mauser ammo. No vendor has this ammo near me within 100 miles, and no vendor in 100 miles accepts mail orders?

Gun is worthless without ammo.

It's likely that many people will be in this situation, and for lots of rare ammo types, some which no one sell in California. This seems injunction worthy to me.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-28-2017, 4:11 PM
mshill's Avatar
mshill mshill is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,881
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
It's the same statute. One part prohibits direct importation (must bring ammo to a vendor for transfer) the other requires face-to-face transfers (which precludes internet purchases).There are limited exceptions to each, but they don't relate to your question.
Here's the part on importation:

Quote:
30314.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

(1) An ammunition vendor.

(2) A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of the officerís duties.

(3) An importer or manufacturer of ammunition or firearms who is licensed to engage in business pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(4) A person who is on the centralized list of exempted federal firearms licensees maintained by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 6 (commencing with Section 28450) of Chapter 6 of Division 6.

(5) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
(c) A violation of this section is an infraction for any first time offense, and either an infraction or a misdemeanor for any subsequent offense.
So there are actually six exemptions, (b)(6) being quite interesting. And related to that section (a) only applies to residents of this state. Also, section (c) is very telling.

No one is going to (be able to) enforce this POS law. This is how you get popped for importing ammunition:

1) Get pulled over between the state line and the first on ramp.
2) Have the contraband on your dash.

Oh, and then there is the discussion about taking stuff out of state (eg. to hunt) and then return home with it. If that is importing then I cannot even take my EDC across the state line to Reno and come back with it loaded. I could go on and on.

The idiot legislature and DOJ couldn't write a more ineffective piece of law if they tried. I almost want to get popped for importing my 8 rounds of 9mm in my EDC just so it can go to court and have the whole thing thrown out.
__________________
Quote:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-28-2017, 4:49 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshill View Post
Oh, and then there is the discussion about taking stuff out of state (eg. to hunt) and then return home with it. If that is importing then I cannot even take my EDC across the state line to Reno and come back with it loaded. I could go on and on.
The statute prohibits the importation of,
Quote:
...ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state...
The issue of taking hunting or self-defense rounds out of state and re-entering with them seems of no interest to the statute...Unless, of course, you think you can make a case for taking 5,000 rounds of self-defense or hunting ammo with you....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshill View Post
The idiot legislature and DOJ couldn't write a more ineffective piece of law if they tried.
A couple of points on this:

This statement is wrong in two ways. The Legislature did pass AB 962 (DeLeon-when he was in the Assembly)
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...200920100AB962) which contained many of the basic issues incorporated into Proposition 63 (which is just one reason why DeLeon was pissed at Newsom for bringing this forward). That 2011 enactment was found Constitutionally invalid on its face by a federal judge...not many things more ineffective than having a court overturn the law. So, the Legislature (but probably not, DOJ) did, in fact write a more ineffective piece of law seven years ago.

Unfortunately, some folks on this board still don't understand that the Legislature and the DOJ didn't write the current ammo law.. Gavin Newsom and his anti-gun consultants wrote it and put it into Proposition 63, which was passed by over 63.08% of the voting electorate. (SB 1235 did modify the language to eliminate the "ammo card" and the 50-round limits in the proposition.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshill View Post
I almost want to get popped for importing my 8 rounds of 9mm in my EDC just so it can go to court and have the whole thing thrown out.
I almost wish you would, but the statute doesn't support that.

Best.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-28-2017, 5:01 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGGRO View Post
Not for us reloaders.
Way to support the plight of your firearms brethren.
/////////////////////
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranski View Post
Same sheet the LEO say about magazines and the roster.
How so?

LEO can purchase fully-assembled off-roster firearms and large-capacity magazines directly, out of the box. Non-LEOs have to purchase off-roster guns second hand and can't purchase LCMs at all.

Reloaders have to buy ammunition components and tools to construct the final product. Nothing stops non-reloaders from reloading. See the difference?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-28-2017, 9:16 PM
mshill's Avatar
mshill mshill is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,881
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
The statute prohibits the importation of,The issue of taking hunting or self-defense rounds out of state and re-entering with them seems of no interest to the statute...Unless, of course, you think you can make a case for taking 5,000 rounds of self-defense or hunting ammo with you....
A couple of points on this:

This statement is wrong in two ways. The Legislature did pass AB 962 (DeLeon-when he was in the Assembly)
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...200920100AB962) which contained many of the basic issues incorporated into Proposition 63 (which is just one reason why DeLeon was pissed at Newsom for bringing this forward). That 2011 enactment was found Constitutionally invalid on its face by a federal judge...not many things more ineffective than having a court overturn the law. So, the Legislature (but probably not, DOJ) did, in fact write a more ineffective piece of law seven years ago.
You are correct. Newsom and the stupid voters of this state are responsible for this debacle.

Quote:

I almost wish you would, but the statute doesn't support that.

Best.
So I shoot what is in my EDC while visiting my son in Utah. I buy some more and reload my EDC and get popped. Yeah, it's a totally stupid scenario, however, it would be supported by the statute. Regardless it's all unenforcable.
__________________
Quote:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-29-2017, 9:13 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 12,566
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGGRO View Post
Not for us reloaders.
Several on-line outfits have said they will no longer sell reloading components to CA after January 1st even though the new laws don't cover that stuff.

Excremento will also fix this loophole next year. Do you thing Gavin will allow you to import bullets here without a permit?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-29-2017, 9:21 AM
REH's Avatar
REH REH is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,421
iTrader: 30 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshill View Post
Here's the part on importation:



So there are actually six exemptions, (b)(6) being quite interesting. And related to that section (a) only applies to residents of this state. Also, section (c) is very telling.

No one is going to (be able to) enforce this POS law. This is how you get popped for importing ammunition:

1) Get pulled over between the state line and the first on ramp.
2) Have the contraband on your dash.

Oh, and then there is the discussion about taking stuff out of state (eg. to hunt) and then return home with it. If that is importing then I cannot even take my EDC across the state line to Reno and come back with it loaded. I could go on and on.

The idiot legislature and DOJ couldn't write a more ineffective piece of law if they tried. I almost want to get popped for importing my 8 rounds of 9mm in my EDC just so it can go to court and have the whole thing thrown out.
EDC???????
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 11-29-2017, 9:33 AM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshill View Post
So I shoot what is in my EDC while visiting my son in Utah. I buy some more and reload my EDC and get popped. Yeah, it's a totally stupid scenario, ....
Yup, absolutely agree.

Your earlier post noted the exception in the statute.
Quote:
(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
Thank goodness your son was kind enough to GIVE you the ammo.

He also included a heartfelt note, saying, "Dear Dad, you're the BEST! Thanks for visiting, and I want to make sure you are safe, so here's some ammunition for your Every Day Carry (EDC) gun. Love, always, mshill, jr."

Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11-29-2017, 10:14 AM
nullman nullman is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 76
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by REH View Post
EDC???????
Every Day Carry
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11-29-2017, 10:35 AM
splithoof splithoof is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,338
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGGRO View Post
Not for us reloaders.
Don't you worry; I'm sure the day will soon arrive when us reloaders will be in a similar boat. This is why you need to be supportive of your fellow gun owners. All gun owners.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 11-29-2017, 12:05 PM
aBrowningfan aBrowningfan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 857
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by splithoof View Post
Don't you worry; I'm sure the day will soon arrive when us reloaders will be in a similar boat. This is why you need to be supportive of your fellow gun owners. All gun owners.
^^^^This! Either stand together or sink individually.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 11-29-2017, 4:55 PM
mshill's Avatar
mshill mshill is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,881
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Your earlier post noted the exception in the statute. Thank goodness your son was kind enough to GIVE you the ammo.

He also included a heartfelt note, saying, "Dear Dad, you're the BEST! Thanks for visiting, and I want to make sure you are safe, so here's some ammunition for your Every Day Carry (EDC) gun. Love, always, mshill, jr."

Exactly. Law has holes big enough you could drive a truck (full of ammo) through it.
__________________
Quote:
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 11-29-2017, 6:18 PM
Dragginpanda Dragginpanda is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 444
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Yup, absolutely agree.

Your earlier post noted the exception in the statute. Thank goodness your son was kind enough to GIVE you the ammo.

He also included a heartfelt note, saying, "Dear Dad, you're the BEST! Thanks for visiting, and I want to make sure you are safe, so here's some ammunition for your Every Day Carry (EDC) gun. Love, always, mshill, jr."

I wonder if someone could go to Vegas with their wife, enjoy some casinos, then have her buy you ammunition. Therefore, itís a gift and now exempt.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 11-29-2017, 7:43 PM
robertkjjj's Avatar
robertkjjj robertkjjj is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 790
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Yup, absolutely agree.

Your earlier post noted the exception in the statute. Thank goodness your son was kind enough to GIVE you the ammo.

He also included a heartfelt note, saying, "Dear Dad, you're the BEST! Thanks for visiting, and I want to make sure you are safe, so here's some ammunition for your Every Day Carry (EDC) gun. Love, always, mshill, jr."

Yep, it all reminds me of that time, long ago, I visited my son in Yuma, and he was kind enough to gift me with 5000 rounds of .223.
What a nice boy.
__________________

NRA Lifetime Member. Hunter & Target Shooter.
San Diego County.
Passionate supporter of RTKBA.
Supporter of conceal and open-carry.

"It's called the Bill Of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs."

Acronyms
AR-15 Primer
CA firearms laws timeline
BLM land maps
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 11-29-2017, 8:33 PM
pennstater's Avatar
pennstater pennstater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca.
Posts: 2,044
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

I think we all know what AGGRO meant. People/shooters who haven't stocked up ammo or handloading supplies in the last couple of years are waaay behind the curve as another poster mentioned. Get with it and don't complain. We've all had time for this.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 11-29-2017, 8:46 PM
Scope2x Scope2x is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 528
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragginpanda View Post
I wonder if someone could go to Vegas with their wife, enjoy some casinos, then have her buy you ammunition. Therefore, itís a gift and now exempt.
Your wife would have to be a resident of another state other than California for that to even be remotely legal.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 11-29-2017, 8:52 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scope2x View Post
Your wife would have to be a resident of another state other than California for that to even be remotely legal.
Where do you see that in the exception in the statute?
Quote:
(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 11-29-2017, 9:04 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
SeŮor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 32,105
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Where do you see that in the exception in the statute?
Quote:
(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
Closest thing to a Newsom facepalm I could find....

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Newsomfacepalm.jpg (55.5 KB, 722 views)
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 12-19-2017, 8:20 PM
gimebakmybulits gimebakmybulits is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 313
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Where do you see that in the exception in the statute?
30314.
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.

(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
It looks like only if the above are not residents that they are not affected by the importation rule. Also looks like they have to be the ones transporting, if they gift it out of state you are in violation if you bring it in yourself.
__________________
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."
George Washington

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 12-19-2017, 9:26 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gimebakmybulits View Post
30314.
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.

(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
It looks like only if the above are not residents that they are not affected by the importation rule. Also looks like they have to be the ones transporting, if they gift it out of state you are in violation if you bring it in yourself.
If you apply that reasoning to subdivision (b)(6), you have to apply it to all subdivisions of (b), which include: ammunition vendors, sworn peace officers, FFL03/COE holders, etc. Clearly, it doesn't.

You left out the connective tissue of subdivision (b), in blue, below:
Quote:
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a resident of this state shall not bring or transport into this state any ammunition that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained from outside of this state unless he or she first has that ammunition delivered to a licensed ammunition vendor for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 30312.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(6) A person who acquired the ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
Subdivision (a) places a prohibition on the actions of, "a resident of this state (California)". Subdivision (b) establishes exceptions to that prohibition for the resident of this (California) state ("a person" in (b)(6)") just as it excepts the ammunition vendor in (b)(1) and the sworn peace officer in (b)(2).
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 12-19-2017, 9:36 PM
gimebakmybulits gimebakmybulits is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 313
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
If you apply that reasoning to subdivision (b)(6), you have to apply it to all subdivisions of (b), which include: ammunition vendors, sworn peace officers, FFL03/COE holders, etc. Clearly, it doesn't.

You left out the connective tissue of subdivision (b), in blue, below:Subdivision (a) places a prohibition on the actions of, "a resident of this state (California)". Subdivision (b) establishes exceptions to that prohibition for the resident of this (California) state ("a person" in (b)(6)") just as it excepts the ammunition vendor in (b)(1) and the sworn peace officer in (b)(2).
Gotcha, I see what you are saying.
__________________
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."
George Washington

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 12-19-2017, 10:37 PM
wannabefree wannabefree is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 115
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I am watching this all play out and like the original poster am waiting for some kind of legal action coming from this. If we do not see some kind of major resistance to this new law we are done. We might as well throw out the Constitution and forget about the 2nd amendment in California.
I really hope that this is just the calm before the storm and they are just waiting for the law to take place on Jan 1 2018 and we have standing.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 12-19-2017, 10:41 PM
bigstick61 bigstick61 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,591
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post
I think we all know what AGGRO meant. People/shooters who haven't stocked up ammo or handloading supplies in the last couple of years are waaay behind the curve as another poster mentioned. Get with it and don't complain. We've all had time for this.
Some of us haven't been able to afford to stock up or invest in reloading equipment and supplies. This month I was finally able to make the first big ammo purchase that I've made in years, mostly .308 surplus and stuff that I'd have a hard time finding at local stores, especially for a decent price like what I can get online. I just haven't had the money to spare.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 12-19-2017, 11:59 PM
Phalanx20mm's Avatar
Phalanx20mm Phalanx20mm is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: East Bay
Posts: 417
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Interstate commerce is Federal, California has no jurisdiction. Time to arrest all the violators in the California State Government.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 12-20-2017, 5:40 AM
pennstater's Avatar
pennstater pennstater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca.
Posts: 2,044
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick61 View Post
Some of us haven't been able to afford to stock up or invest in reloading equipment and supplies. This month I was finally able to make the first big ammo purchase that I've made in years, mostly .308 surplus and stuff that I'd have a hard time finding at local stores, especially for a decent price like what I can get online. I just haven't had the money to spare.
I understand what you're saying. Sometimes money is tight and priorities take place. Sorry for your situation. Hope you can get enough to see you thru.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 12-20-2017, 5:44 AM
Bt Doctur Bt Doctur is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 327
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Unless the State is going to stop everyone at the border crossing and search every vehicle you just need to say nothing and keep your mouth shut.
Use the 5Th amendment .Even if you have nothing , make them get a search warrant to find out you have nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 12-20-2017, 8:24 AM
USMCM16A2 USMCM16A2 is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,414
iTrader: 100 / 100%
Default

Dear Gavin,


**** you, karma is going to be a mutherfuka! A2
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 12-20-2017, 12:53 PM
gater gater is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 85
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default AMMO

GET A OUT- OF STATE BUDDY FROM AZ. OR NEVADA TO BRING YOU AMMO.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 12-20-2017, 1:54 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gater View Post
GET A OUT- OF STATE BUDDY FROM AZ. OR NEVADA TO BRING YOU AMMO.
So, will your out-of-state buddy simply give you this ammunition (gift), or will you provide some medium of exchange in reciprocity for the ammunition (sale)? Both are considered "delivery and transfer", and you would receive the ammo.

It's important, because your "buddy" isn't a family member, and there appears to be no exception for "Out-of-State Buddy from AZ or Nevada" (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=30312):
Quote:
30312. (a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.
(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendorís own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.
(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.
(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:
(10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 12-20-2017, 5:06 PM
Conrad5186 Conrad5186 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

I wonder if we could get ammo venders to play ball with us. Perhaps refusing to fill state of California ammo purchases. Might change Sacramento's tone when they can't get ammo for law enforcement. What's good for the gander, is good for the goose. I'm pretty much done with this state. If it's not groceries I'm going to try my hardest not to buy anything in this state until I can finally get out of here.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 12-20-2017, 5:12 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad5186 View Post
I wonder if we could get ammo venders to play ball with us. Perhaps refusing to fill state of California ammo purchases. Might change Sacramento's tone when they can't get ammo for law enforcement. What's good for the gander, is good for the goose.
UMMM....small problem with your plan...the "goose" is exempt....
Quote:
(a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.
(2) ...

(b) ...

(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:

(1) An authorized law enforcement representative of a city, county, city and county, or state or federal government, if the sale, delivery, or transfer is for exclusive use by that government agency and, prior to the sale, delivery, or transfer of the ammunition, written authorization from the head of the agency employing the purchaser or transferee is obtained, identifying the employee as an individual authorized to conduct the transaction, and authorizing the transaction for the exclusive use of the agency employing the individual.

(2) A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of the officerís duties.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 12-20-2017, 5:16 PM
Conrad5186 Conrad5186 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Yes I understand the goose is exempt, I'm not talking about the goose, I'm talking about private business refusing to do business with the goose.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 12-20-2017, 5:17 PM
Conrad5186 Conrad5186 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Make the goose drive to Reno
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 12-20-2017, 5:21 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,971
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad5186 View Post
Yes I understand the goose is exempt, I'm not talking about the goose, I'm talking about private business refusing to do business with the goose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad5186 View Post
Make the goose drive to Reno
The goose can continue to sit at the goose computer and place internet orders for pallets of ammo without ammo vendor intervention. Fedex/UPS will deliver direct to their nest.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 12-20-2017, 5:32 PM
Conrad5186 Conrad5186 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Ok example. Goose gets on line order 10,000 rounds of 9mm from Joe's ammo depot. Joe's ammo depot, tells the goose, sorry but as company policy we no longer do business with you. Kinda like what Berrett did. Let the goose go to another vendor, hopefully that vendor says the same because 2,000 letters flooded thier mail. On and on till California can only fill ammo orders with some Chinese outfit, lol. Look maybe it's a dumb idea, but I'm kinda tired of having no recourse, sitting back and feeling beaten. Cards are stacked. Used to be a group of consumer's had pull. I mean I'll write letters to all ammo manufacturers I can find but it takes more then one guy.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 12-20-2017, 6:10 PM
pennstater's Avatar
pennstater pennstater is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca.
Posts: 2,044
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Well Dvrjon, you tried. Goose gonna win this one.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 12-20-2017, 6:14 PM
chris's Avatar
chris chris is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In Texas for now
Posts: 18,570
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old4eyes View Post

The interesting factor of the FBI not wanting to have the NICS being used for ammo checks will be a wildcard for the implementation and that fact might cause a delay but the hope of an injunction is probably spitting into the wind.
This has been my issue is that NICS isn't setup to be used for the background check for ammo and since people buy ammo a lot especially this state. it's seems to be an unfair use of a federal system for one state alone for one type of transaction.

If the FEDS tell this state to pound sand in regards to use NICS what will the state use? I seriously doubt they have a back up plan in place.
__________________
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
contact the governor
https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
NRA Life Member.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:58 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.